This board is getting to partisan.

Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 12, 2004, 00:58:

caslug says on Nov 12, 2004, 01:06:

But it's sooo lively... one one side we have the live-and-let-live group(you know who you are) and on the other side the gringo-r-dogs group(you know who you are). but i admit, nothing really new is said, that hasn't been said in past post. I'm just curious to see if one day we can have a REALLY controversal post that break 250 post.

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timmy says on Nov 12, 2004, 02:28:

MAIL ORDER BRIDES True enough, the concept of a mail order bride is offensive to many people BUT
I'm a gringo with a Colombian girlfriend (not mail order) and after being with her for a couple of years, I'd never bother with an american girl, I know I can do better than that. By that I mean...I believe that we should all treat each other as equals which in estados unidos seems to mean that the female has to somehow feel like she is above you and that the man is just a clueless idiot who needs to be put in his place!!??? The average american girl can not provide enough affetcion, it's not politically correct. I guess the Tory Amos' (anus) of the world have sucedded in this way.
I treat my girlfriend like a queen and she treats me like a king. I would NEVER cheat on her. Why should a man expect anything less?? I mean if you treat her well she should do the same right?

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elmodefoque says on Nov 12, 2004, 04:46:

With all these bickering you guys are doing, we don’t get to hear from the people we are discussing, the people we are either defending or insulting, the Colombian women in Colombia. I love to hear what they think about this. I know how they feel about me but I want to know what would make them pack up and leave everything they love and are accustomed to and come to a foreign land, people and language. I can’t imagine that you guys are so fantastic in the sack that would make them travel thousands of miles to come after your gringo ass. Coming to the USA I could understand a little bit, but to go and live in Europe or Canada, damn, that’s a hell of a sacrifice. I think is a fascinating topic. In my case my wife and I are both colombians and travel back to Colombian often, we eat arepas and agua de panela like every colombian couple, but I also introduced her to my adopted USA culture like peanut butter sandwich and Snapple ice tea. She refuses to eat MacDonalds, that elitist bitch! I tell her that she was probably eating sand sandwiches back home and now she finds Mickey-D disgusting. She’s 1000% colombiana, but I love her. COLOMBIANAS DONDE ESTAN?
maybe they don’t be talking good English like me

I'll get there, when I get there!

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gringa-colombiana says on Nov 12, 2004, 04:49:

Timmy, great comment..... NOT. I am shocked at your reasoning as to why women supposably want to feel suprior then men. Granted women in the states are alot more equal to men then in other countries, but we can't claim full equality yet. Women continue to be paid 75% less then men when in the same position. There is no justifiable reason for women to be paid less. Women are fighting for equality not proving men are less. If women one day become full equal to men then they might try to create an image to superiority.

Your generalizations about the states are upsurbed. Women in the south tend and midwest tend to be more affectionate than women in New York and Cali. But to claim that you deserve better because all these women can meet your requirements is hilarious. Even when you are claiming equality you still judge women in the states claiming they would not have the ability to treat you how you deserve.

Your last question concerning, if you treat a woman well shouldn't you expect the same in return. I believe you are absolutely correct. It's just that if you go into something with prejudgies about how it probably is then you will never see the truth and you only see what you trained yourself to see.

I was born in the states with Colombian parents and raised as a true Colombiana, but I really dislike the generalizations about gringas you as well as many of the other men on this board have made. Although, its quite ok because I have as well probably piss some people off and well that's life.

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isaactraveler says on Nov 12, 2004, 05:28:

meh... i like the subject It doesnt bother me at all. Some of it is repeatative, but within many posts I can usually find nuggets of information that interest or apply to my situation. I would suggest a new forum separate from FRIENDLY DISCUSSIONS and WAR/POLITICS call it something like:

MOB SUPPORT

hahaha. seriously though, as I plan to marry a colombiana who has a small child (interview set for Nov. 22) it helps me to know what others go through. anyway, it would keep that subject off the general boards.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 12, 2004, 06:21:

Long-winded way to drop a subject this is a very long-winded way to "drop" a subject that's not going to die anyway.

I really don't care one way or the other about "mail order brides" but I want to know why people keep using the term. I don't really think it's accurate to describe what's going on in Colombia that way. Mail order brides used to literally be picked out of a catalogue and then would come to the states (often from Asia) sight unseen. That was back in the days of much easier immigration. Going to Colombia and meeting some pretty girls with the hope of maybe meeting one to marry is a LONG way from mail ordering a wife.

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cintiamay says on Nov 12, 2004, 07:03:

hehe Yes Calipro, me & my novio are simply suffering from inferiority complexes, that's why we're together. See, we weren't good enough to catch "one of our own" and we are so sad that the gringos and colombianas are making such beautiful music together without us. We cry about it all the time, while we're screwing usually. Since we both suck in bed, at least we can suck together and not feel soooo bad about it. Thank you for attempting to protect our delicate natures... particularly since we're sooooo undeserving of it.

kisses,
cintiamay

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 12, 2004, 09:31:

calipro thank you for the concern you are showing for my feelings (and for that matter, for the feelings of any non-Colombian women on the board as well as the Colombian guys writing here.
Don't make that stop you, however, since I have no problem with my self-esteem, and even if my knowledge of the wife-shopping agencies is limited, I know enough Colombianas from all walks of life to know how they think about about gringos, marriage, men and fidelity. My knowledge of gringo males is scanty; but I'm learning fast from these posts. Not that the predominat male group here should by any means be representative, but it's good to know how that minority who can't/won't cope with women that share their own sociocultural background thinks of themselves, the opposite sex, and what they think they "deserve".
The problem of this board is that I suspect at least one half of the posters are Gringo males wanting to import a bride to the States. It will this very vocal group that'll dominate the selection of topics here.
Cheers,
(Poor)Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 12, 2004, 10:48:

Wife Trafficking 'I really don't care one way or the other about "mail order brides" but I want to know why people keep using the term. I don't really think it's accurate to describe what's going on in Colombia that way.'

100% in agreement with you, Hollywood. Personally, I wouldn't use a marriage agency, because I am not remotely interested in finding anyone to marry.

"There is no justifiable reason for women to be paid less. Women are fighting for equality not proving men are less."

Yeah, see, maybe some of us men would rather be around women who don't think they're involved in an ongoing battle with us.

"I really dislike the generalizations about gringas"

I often see the word "generalization" coming up as a bad thing. Generalization is a valid and rational way of dealing with reality. The more experience one has in dealing with different groups of people, the more accurate the generalizations become. They are still generalizations, but they are useful.

If in eight out of ten encounters with pit bull dogs I am bitten, but I am only bitten in one out of 100 encounters with beagles, I will generalize that beagles are friendlier than pit bulls and that I should avoid interaction with pit bulls.

The kind of women I like are friendly, approachable, talkative, good cooks, passionate, patient, and treat me with a lot of affection. I also like dark-haired, dark-eyed, well-groomed, well-dressed, and very feminine women with round bottoms.

My personal experience in dealing with gringas vs. Colombianas has led me to the rational generalization that Colombianas are much more likely to provide what I want from women than are gringas, and the corollary that gringas are much less likely to provide what I want. So I've ruled out any relationships with gringas.

But don't worry, gringas. I'm not what most of you would ever want, anyway.

If I wish to find women that I enjoy being around, this generalization is a good tool for helping me focus my efforts in the right direction. If was in a strange person's home looking for a pair of socks, I wouldn't start in the refrigerator or the kitchen cabinets. Why? My ability to generalize helps me understand that, generally, people keep their socks in their bedrooms, perhaps in a drawer.

Generalization Evil

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 12, 2004, 12:02:

I would agree with you, Diego, that generalizations are something we do naturally and are frequently useful. However the problem is in using generalizations about people to determine our interactions with them based on some characteristic like gender, race, or nationality. When my wife and I are shopping in the supermarket you should see the double-takes when they hear this white boy talking Spanish!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 12, 2004, 12:16:

and also because they're very subjective. We're being fed generalizations all the time by mass media, people around us and why not, internet communities like this. We base our opinions on insufficient data, often manipulated to serve a specific purpose, and thus unreliable. This is especially undesirable if we start to use these allegations made on loose grounds to categorize people (like utopia said gender, race, nationality).
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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cintiamay says on Nov 12, 2004, 12:49:

As usual Desi (and Utopiacowboy) have good explanations for things.

Diego, in your explanation, your use of generalizations makes sense. My dislike of generalizations concerns the fact that people on the board use them to denigrate and insult others.

btw, my novio would agree with most of what you wrote regarding the type of woman you like. And other than the dark eyes and the good cook, he would probably describe me accordingly. I'm learning to cook though, because I like to feed him... and make him happy.

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calipro says on Nov 12, 2004, 13:30:

Well elmo since you asked and made this statement below:


“I want to know what would make them pack up and leave everything they love and are accustomed to and come to a foreign land, people and language. I can’t imagine that you guys are so fantastic in the sack that would make them travel thousands of miles to come after your gringo ass. Coming to the USA I could understand a little bit, but to go and live in Europe or Canada, damn, that’s a hell of a sacrifice. I think is a fascinating topic.”

I’m going to give you two real life examples (from opposite ends of the spectrum) of two women that would like to meet and marry a gringo. These two women are members of a marriage agency that I’m affiliated with and I know them personally.

Dayanna: http://www.allcolombiangirls.com/detail.php?code=500

Dayanna is a rare find on the marriage agency scene. She is 21 and completely open to marrying a guy to 35 years old but I think she would go to 40 for a guy that is in good physical shape after all she is caleña.

She is rare because she is relatively well to do in Colombia. She attends the University and has always had a maid at home her whole life. She doesn’t work because she doesn’t have to. She is not rich by American standards but her life style is better than most American girls her age. She has lived in New York for a couple of years and taken some college classes there so her English is good. She currently has a multiply entry visa to enter the United States. Also, she plays the violin and likes to play tennis.

I was in Cali the day she joined the agency and after talking to her a bit. I told her that I didn’t really think the marriage agency was the way to go for her. I asked if she really wanted to marry an American why didn’t she just get on a plane and go meet American men (she has a visa). I told her that most American guys that come down here don’t have a lot of vacation time and thus the time you would get to spend with them would be limited. I told her for example that the most I have seen guys spend with their girlfriends here before getting engaged and married is about two months and that was pushing it. I told her that if she just waited until she went back to the states that she could really take her time to get to know somebody very well before she got married that she didn’t have to roll the dice so to speak.

I asked her if she spent two months out of a year with a gringo in Cali that she was sincerely interested and corresponded with him by phone and e-mail on a regular basis, Do you think you would know him enough to marry him in a year? She said probably not but she said that she would probably feel comfortable enough to go visit him in the states.

She, also, told me that she dated American men while in the states and preferred them and the relative freedom in the relationship compared to Colombian relationships and that she doesn’t want to marry a Colombian. She added that she didn’t want to go to the states right now because she wanted to stay with her grandmother in Cali.

Her parents are both dead which might help explain why it would be easier for her than most to just pack up and leave Colombia. Also she is some what Americanized already which is a small price to pay considering she speaks good English, has a visa, and already knows that she likes living in the States. She is absolutely the best of the best as far as I’m concerned. The idea of marrying an American and living in the states was simply a choice she made without any other motivating factors.



Maria: http://www.allcolombiangirls.com/detail.php?code=260

Maria is 23 and although she is sweet as pie, she is in exactly the opposite situation as Dayanna. She is dirt poor by American standards. She has a small boy to care for and no husband to help her. She lives with her bother and for some reason doesn’t seem to have a lot of extended family to help her out.

She is about as open to marrying a foreigner as she to marrying a colombiano. She just wants to be married and have a life. It doesn’t matter if it is in the States or Colombia. The reason she is not married is because she has had no reasonable offers. The Colombian culture that dictates that a Colombiano with anything going for him shouldn’t marry women with someone else’s child has dealt her a severe blow. And thus has provided a real opportunity for an American guy that doesn’t have a problem marrying a beautiful woman with a cute little boy.

This girl is a sweet as they come. She has an incredibly optimistic view of life given her current situation. She is philosophical and has a very soft and quiet personality compared to most caleñas. Given the opportunity this girl would love you to death.

She states that she would prefer a guy from 25 to 40 but I’m telling you guys that stating an age preference is no a demand that must be met as it would be if she was an American girl. I think she would be interested in any guy in his 40’s that was in good shape.

Now, elmo both of these girls are from opposite ends of the spectrum as far as what is available in marriage agencies and there are many different types of women and life situations that lead women to a seek a partner through a marriage agency. But, to classify any of these women as having low moral character or just plain being opportunistic money grubbing whores is obscene, IMHO.

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JamieJ says on Nov 12, 2004, 13:31:

Calipro If I didn’t think you were being sarcastic I would say:

Feel free to censor yourself but leave others to determine their subjects of interest. If you don’t like the subject don’t read on or reply to it.

Jamie
Engage The Exotic - Colombian Women

Jamie

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kernow62 says on Nov 12, 2004, 13:39:

I have the only Colombiana who can't cook!!!! At least in the kitchen. :-)

Diego, what is the difference between rationalization & generalization. I think your examples are more the former. I believe generalizations are usually uninformed perceptions whilst rationalizations are ones based upon logical thought patterns.

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Lionheart says on Nov 12, 2004, 14:07:

A big NO NO, Elmo "Coming to the USA I could understand a little bit, but to go and live in Europe or Canada, damn, that’s a hell of a sacrifice."

I totally disagree with you Elmo. Europe's lifestyle and culture is much more similar to Colombia, especially when you look at Southern European countries. So it would be much more prefered by Colombianas in the long run. Even French Canada has more similarities. Moving to the USA is the greatest sacrifice and the most alien culture for them, aside from Asia. I have spoken to several Colombianas who have traveled both continents and they agree. Even Europeans coming to the USA get the non-culture shock.

I have seen traditional mail-order-bride agencies, which keep a close grip on their girls until the marriage happens, and I have seen the dating agencies who offer primarily support in meeting each other in Colombia. Much larger now are common dating web sites where no agencies become active. This is the largest change of the dating market in the past 4 years.

Generalization can either be judgemental or based on plain numbers, rationalization normally includes more detail and logic, but both are just as risky to use as any other statement based on statistics.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:02:

I laughed when I read your comment about French Canada, Lionheart. My wife can understand Portugese and Italian pretty well but is totally lost in French. Which is a shame because it's a beautiful language and one I used to be able to speak better than Spanish. She thinks Texas is too cold already and it's just November - she can't possibly imagine weather cold enough to freeze battery acid. I doubt French Canada is ever going to experience an influx of Colombians.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:11:

guys, i'm sure europe and canada are nice, buy they don't got no spics there. where in london are you going to find "panela"? we got that in just about every big city in the good ol usa.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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elmodefoque says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:19:

Listen guys, if they had Swedish mail order bride, I'll be the first one on line. I love blondes; I got a rich man's taste with a poor man's wallet.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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calipro says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:27:

elmo "Listen guys, if they had Swedish mail order bride, I'll be the first one on line."

elmo I would be one of the last people to criticize you for having an interest in women that do not share your own sociocultural background, I mean race.

To each his own. Live and let live and all that jazz.

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kernow62 says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:42:

wrong Elmo There are a lot of Colombians in Europe, never thought about Spain did you. No problems with the language and Spain is not too difficult to move to, this is more difficult since the EEU, but not as bad as other places. My sister-in-law had to wait 9 years before the US would let her join the rest of the family here.

There are a large number of Colombians in London and yes you can get panela there. It is certainly no Miami, Orlando or NYC as far as sheer numbers of Colombians, but they are a close-knit bunch. London actually gets more Colombian music groups visiting than does sleepy old Orlando.

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ColombianoX says on Nov 12, 2004, 16:48:

"guys, i'm sure europe and canada are nice, buy they don't got no spics there"

Elmo, have you ever heard of Spain?


ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Nov 12, 2004, 17:08:

got me there! wait, this ain't fair, you guys are all college grads, i got my GED in prison, after my fourth try. who the hell knew that spain was in europe, i thought it was near guatemala.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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calipro says on Nov 12, 2004, 18:39:

Desi “Not that the predominate male group here should by any means be representative, but it's good to know how that minority who can't/won't cope with women that share their own sociocultural background thinks of themselves, the opposite sex, and what they think they "deserve".”

If I had a dollar for every time I heard you say (on this board and others) that only men and women that share the same sociocultural and economic background should get married, I would be a very rich man. Just substitute the word “race” for sociocultural and I would be a millionaire for every time that I have heard someone make these kinds of comments.

Do you think I like thinking of you as a femme-Nazi? Well I don’t. I want you to change. I want you to go into the bathroom right now and look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if there is a problem with your sociocultural and economically biased view of the world. The answer should be “YES”. People don’t have to be on the same socio-cultural or economic footing to love one another. So I suggest that you throw out every single universal rule that YOU think governs what is a good relationship between a man and a woman BECAUSE THERE AREN’T ANY!!!!

If in fact you are really married to a colombiano you have to be one of the biggest hypocrites that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting in person or online.

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Miguel says on Nov 12, 2004, 18:41:

You are right Elmo Spain is really close to Guatemala if you are an Uribe looking elite Colombian international business man with a Lear jet. There was a lot of press in Spain and Colombia this week about Colombians being the least delinquent foreigners in Spain. Colombianos in Spain seem to be muy tranquilo.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 12, 2004, 22:06:

did I say that? calipro, I thought I had said:"that minority who can't/won't cope with women that share their own sociocultural background thinks of themselves".
I am a strong supporter for intercultural marriages, but for right reasons. To make it even clearer I will mention some of the "right" reasons for me: love, affection, commitment. I don't have anything against arranged marriages within ethnic groups that accept this practice. Arranged marriages where money is paid for the introductions, third world child brides for sleazy old westerners,mail-order brides where you choose from a catalogue are examples of what I find objectable.
I have nothing against internet dating sites like amigos.com and similars. They are just pen pal clubs with an option to move on to another type of relationship.
I also don't like to be misquoted.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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calipro says on Nov 12, 2004, 22:35:

Desi Do I have to dig up a direct quote or can I parafrase your views on how people should marry into the same sociocultural background and be on the same economic footing. Or are you changing your position?

You seem to have no problem with the fact that if everybody in the world followed your views of socio-cultural and economic parity in couples that it would virtually illiminate marriages between north american men and colombian women.

"Arranged marriages where money is paid for the introductions, third world child brides for sleazy old westerners,mail-order brides where you choose from a catalogue are examples of what I find objectable."

Please don't hide your hatered of inter-cultural marriages between american men and colombian women under the guise that you are offended by the manner in which they meet.

Have you ever heard of Great Expectations? It's a form of video dating right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. Men don't just look at pictures of women before deciding if they want to meet them but watch videos. And much more money changes hands for the introductions than any little ol' marriage agency would charge. That's how some of us sleezy westerners do it around here. What's a child bride anyway? Is that what my gramma was when she got married at 16?


"I am a strong supporter for intercultural marriages, but for right reasons. To make it even clearer I will mention some of the "right" reasons for me: love, affection, commitment."

What other reasons are there to get married? Or do you really believe that the women in marriage agencies are opportunistic whores and the americans that join are really looking for under age sex.

Desi, I really do think you need help.

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 12, 2004, 22:37:

Dictionaries Are Handy "I believe generalizations are usually uninformed perceptions whilst rationalizations are ones based upon logical thought patterns."

generalization

n 1: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances [syn: abstraction, generalisation] 2: reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalisation, induction, inductive reasoning] 3: an idea having general application; "he spoke in broad generalities" [syn: generalisation, generality] 4: (psychology) transfer of a response learned to one stimulus to a similar stimulus [syn: generalisation, stimulus generalization, stimulus generalisation]

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DiegoDelNorte says on Nov 12, 2004, 22:57:

Not Politically Expedient, Therefore Irrational "I would agree with you, Diego, that generalizations are something we do naturally and are frequently useful. However the problem is in using generalizations about people to determine our interactions with them based on some characteristic like gender, race, or nationality."

I don't see any problem at all in doing exactly that. In fact, it is exactly what I describe when I say, "and the corollary that gringas are much less likely to provide what I want. So I've ruled out any relationships with gringas." I have applied a generalization to determine my interaction with a group consisting of a specified gender of a specified race and/or nationality. I am quite content and unembarrassed about this.

I also don't mind saying that I've pretty much ruled out relationships with Eskimos, Zulus, Dayaks, and members of the British royal family, all for different reasons.

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Atrevido (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 13, 2004, 03:46:

martiinbogota says on Nov 13, 2004, 09:26:

Hello,

Here is a colombiana and let me tell you that I'm totally agree with your coment and thankful, is very sensitive and honest, you're fortunate about having a colombian wife and I have had the chance to meet several american men here in Colombia and mostly of them has changed their minds after meeting a colombian lady, because our values and morals, not all generally but a big percent, I'm positive, not in vane we have the best name and fame overseas like the best women and wives :)

Hello everyone, I'm colombian funny and easy going girl who lives in Bogotá and would like to meet USA visitors and english speakers who are staying or living in Bogotá. You can write me to marti_0121@yahoo.com or martti@latinmail.com Martha

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martiinbogota says on Nov 13, 2004, 09:34:

Hola Desi !! Absolutely agree with your comment, definetely you have given a high level and mature lesson to Calipro, Good for you and let's continue growing up this background and letting give new options for foreigners to make their affectioned expectations true, because is totally clear that they couldn't find at their same countries or culture's women :)

Hello everyone, I'm colombian funny and easy going girl who lives in Bogotá and would like to meet USA visitors and english speakers who are staying or living in Bogotá. You can write me to marti_0121@yahoo.com or martti@latinmail.com Martha

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 13, 2004, 11:04:

child bride yes, calipro, that's what she would have been. It was another world, other times though, and in the past girls were often married at a very tender age. If she had a happy life, it was a blessing. Mormons in Utah were also known to marry child brides in the past when they still could have multiple spouses. One of my dearest friends, A lovely green-eyed Caleña was married off at the age of 14 to a man double of her age, and through much struggle she was able to finish her high school at 19, get a college degree at 28 and her masters at the age of 35; being an exemplary mother and wife all the time, but having to fight her husband every step to be able to study and work.
Technically and legally every person under the age of 18 is a child and should enjoy the protection of her family and have the benefits of studying and living a normal life of an adolescent. That doesn't include caring for a baby or minding a home and a husband. This is aplicable even in Colombia where there are laws to protect minors from abuse of all kind.
I have no "hatred" for Colombiana-Gringo matches, open or disguised, where did you ever get that notion? Not from me, because I have never said that either.
Do I think all Colombianas enrolled in marriage agencies are "money-grabbing whores" to use your own wording? I vehemently deny ever having expressed any such thought. I made a statement that they may be some prostitutes enrolled as a reaction to one URL at caligringo showing pages and pages of scantily clad young women with obvious health issues, but since then I did my homework and came in the conclusion that the majority of these women are just ordinary women, many of them with economical problems and rather modest educational levels. That some (maybe even many) of them are wishing to improve their economical standards by marrying a gringo and moving to the States doesn't make them "whores".
I still think that the best way for peole to meet is the "old-fashioned" way: at work, at school, at malls, at discos, introduced by friends. This way the relationship has a chance to grow and develop, before any commitments are made. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with interracial and intercultural marriages, but I still think that a certain common background contributes a factor of stability to a long-term relationship. I'm mostly thinking of educational background and yes, even age. After the fantasies of the honeymoon, when the real life starts and all topics of conversation have been discussed a thousand times, a young couple (or even a middle-aged, if there's no great disparity of ages) has a chance of growing together, adapting to each other's ways and thinking and make the necessary adjustments. This becomes more and more difficult if the age difference (say, for example over ageneration) is too great.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Hunter says on Nov 13, 2004, 11:52:

Desi I just don't get it At a dating agency the girls give their name, photo, info etc.
Amigos.com the girls give their name, photo, info etc as well.

I think that they can do this for free at both types of business.

The guys look at the photos and information at the dating agency.
The guys look at the photos and information at amigos.com.

If the guy wants to contact the girls at both options he has to pay.

So whats the differance.

Also what is the diferance if a friend brings a girl along that they think is your type on a evening out, you would have asked some of the same questions with your friend before hand that you can find at the above agencies, the only differance is that you probably havn't seen her photo. Again normally the guy will pay towards the evening.

I just don't get your problem with it Desi, it seems to be the same thing to me.

Hunter

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brunito says on Nov 13, 2004, 12:16:

utopiacowbo, I'm from French Canada (true "true québécois... ... pure laine")

And there is actually quite a big colombian community up here in Québec province. Actually, we have a lot of latin american communities as well as middle east and african communities.

One of the main reasons is that we are closer culturally to Middle East, Europe and Latin America then the rest of Canada and USA. It applies to politics, economics, culture, music, film, and on and on...

Yes, when immigrants get here, they find the winters difficult. Even we Québécois find them difficult...

But, it's in the human nature to adjust and thrive...

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 13, 2004, 12:17:

hunter I don't have a problem, only an opinion. At amigos.com, for example, you describe yourself in general terms, sometimes post a photo of yourself and then you sit back and wait. At a marriage agency (is a dating agency the same thing?) you leave your phone number, your photo, relevant info of what you're after etc. and then you wait for the planeload of gringos to come and contact you. Who pays is not important to me, personally. If I were involved with a guy that I didn't know that well, I'd prefer to pay for myself.
When you've been introduced by a mutual friend you can take your time to learn to know this person. It's not part of a package. There's no rush, because the gringo is leaving on the next flight to Atlanta. I guess that's where the problem lies, for my understanding. I don't like "instant".
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lionheart says on Nov 13, 2004, 13:09:

there are free ways to contact in amigos.com Hunter ... there are free ways to contact in amigos.com, and I have contacted many for free. I am in contact with several via hotmail, yahoo, messengers etc outside of amigos.com now. If you are interested in the tricks how get free contacts, let me know.

Desi ... I prefer amigos.com over agencies because I have plenty of time. I have become friends with several Latinas over the past years, no marriage intended, and they are helping from within their countries. And I am chatting with a Colombiana for over 6 months now, and we are very interested in getting to know each other in person.

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calipro says on Nov 13, 2004, 13:17:

Now you're sounding more reasonable, Desi I stand corrected. You're not a femme-nazi after all.

And, I gather it isn't a problem that in your estimation 50% of the participants of this board are either in a relationship with a foreign woman or looking for one.

That's a sad story about that 14 year old. I personally have never met a gringo that had a problem with his wife getting an education. In my case I won't bring a woman to the States if she doesn't want to study and work. If she wants to be a housewife she is just as well off in Colombia in my opinion.

Also, there aren't or should I say shouldn't be any under age women in marriage agencies. I did find one in the agency that I was afilliated with (she lied about her age). I had her kicked out when I found out about it. Having a relationship with a minor is illegal for an american even if it is permitted under the laws of the foreign country.

"I still think that the best way for peole to meet is the "old-fashioned" way: at work, at school, at malls, at discos, introduced by friends. This way the relationship has a chance to grow and develop, before any commitments are made."

I agree with you. In a perfect world this would be the circumstances under which everybody would meet. But, the world ain't perfect and neither is meeting and marrying someone that you met at a marriage agency. But, it is a viable option if the two people go into the process with realistic expectations.

It is not a realistic expectation for someone to meet and marry someone that they have only spent a couple of weeks with and then feel sure that the relationship will last a life time.

You can know that you really enjoy someones' company and whether or not you feel a sexual conection with them. I think this is where most couples are at when they decide to start the fiancee visa process or get married. Certainly most couples that get married through a marriage agency are infatuated with each other and have hopes that the relationship will work out in the long run.

I met and married beautiful young woman that I met taking a friend of mine to a marriage agency in Cali. I filed for a finacee visa after spending a month with her in Cali. We where attracted to one another and had a great time together. But, I wouldn't say that we where both 100% in love with one another untill we had lived together for 6 months. I personally don't fall in love that easy but I would have died for my wife after I had.

I know some people don't share my views on relationships. My marriage with my caleña wife ended after three and a half years. Some would view this as a failure, I don't. For the most part it was three and a half of the most enjoyable years of my life. My wife and I are still friends and I don't think she has any regrets either. She will offten tell me to this day that I saved her. She has a good job, a college education and freedom that she would have never gotten in Cali. I was free at the time and so was she. I see no harm in these relationships and I don't know why anybody would. All things being equal the guys are bringing the colombianas from a land where men are king to a land were women are queens. Most women that step off that plane have a hundred times more opportunity and a thousand times more chance of success in life than if they stayed in Colombia.

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calipro says on Nov 13, 2004, 15:46:

Hunter Most women that I have met have a hard time getting it.

I remember the first time I introduced my caleña wife to my grandmother.

After she got me to the side, she told me that she never dreamed that I would have to go all the way to Colombia to find myself a wife. To tell you the truth, I really think she felt sorry for me having to settle for a poor little colombiana.

I told her that I didn't have to go anywhere to find a wife and not to feel sorry for me because you feel that I had to settle for second best.

I told her that there was only one reason I was married to that poor little colombiana and that was because I never met a woman in my life that I wanted to be with more than her.

Interestingly enough, I don't think I ever met a guy that felt sorry for me because I was married to that poor little colombiana. To the contrary most wanted to know how I met her.

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emilyh says on Nov 13, 2004, 18:08:

I don't know about the bit about the men My Colombian boyfriend has never shown any signs of expecting to be treated as 'king'. I'm not trying to have a go, just saying that from what I have found and observed in the circles I was in, that almost all the Colombian men were adoring of their ladies and in general always treated women with respect. I've found no difference between my boyfriends mentality of women and that of men from Australia/western culture.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 13, 2004, 18:22:

Oh, Diego, you could be missing out on some "hot" Eskimo chicks!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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calipro says on Nov 13, 2004, 18:30:

emilyh I didn't mean to imply that colombian men expect to be treated like kings. I mean they really are kings in their own country. They just have so much more economic and social power than women do in colombia.

Once a colombiana has a colombianos kids she is really at his mercy from a social and economic stand point. There would be a few exceptions. If the colombiana came from a wealthy family or had a high paying job, she might be able to throw her weight around more than the average colombiana.

I don't know where you met your colombian boyfriend but I imagine that colombianos do adjust thier behavior to changing social climates.

I seriously doubt that colombianos that live in the States cheat on their wives nearly as much as ones that live in Colombia. There are just so many more consequences for those kinds of actions here in the States than compared to living in Colombia.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 13, 2004, 18:34:

Moi aussi, Brunito. Je suis né à Montréal. Growing up there, I hated the winters - the only thing good about them was the money we made shovelling driveways. Montréal has become quite cosmopolitan but I think on the whole, a Colombian would be more comfortable here in Texas than in Quebec. San Antonio is over 60% Hispanic and you could live your life here in Spanish if you chose to.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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emilyh says on Nov 13, 2004, 21:00:

Calipro I agree, it does seem that the men tend to have more power in that way which is quite sad. Also, while my boyfriend does live in Colombia (we met when he came to study in Australia), he lives in Cali now actually as did I with him for 6 months, I think the difference in attitudes is probably more to do with him and his friends/family having a different social/economic and educational standing. Just like anywhere in the world.

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