thief picks wrong victim

webmanco says on May 25, 2007, 10:38:

a big mouth Big guys hit the floor harder and get a lot of work to get up if they do.

Some lightweight and short people on a few ocasions are mistaken thinking that big guys always win, a lot of times what big guys got is a big mouth. :-)

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Lostgringo says on May 25, 2007, 10:49:

Big guy Big Mouth So true Webmanco so true...

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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JMCana says on May 25, 2007, 10:52:

Where did you witness the incident?

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podborski says on May 25, 2007, 11:02:

in my neighbourhood in BsAs not in Colombia.

By the looks of it, the little guy knew what he was doing.

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goin_south says on May 25, 2007, 15:25:

we usually do ;)

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 25, 2007, 23:36:

like that joke goes..."Sometimes the Bull wins...." =) Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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miamimike says on May 26, 2007, 00:35:

Saw a Story like this 30 years ago,,, a group of young Neighborhood gadabouts decided to jump a little old man in his 60s then,now deceased,in our neighborhood who was a lightweight Boxer in his Youth("Kid Dilling"). He was about Roberto Duran's size when Roberto fought as a Lightweight and built about the same as Duran in his prime. The young thugs forgot the old saying "A Boxer's Punch is the last thing to go"! Heavyweight Michael Moore knows this from kissing George Foreman's Knockout punch in 1992! Ha We knew the guy as Mickey and he pounded the Crap out of 1-2 of them before the rest hauled Ass! Great to hear of a story like this Podborski, brings back Happy memories!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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goin_south says on May 26, 2007, 01:13:

and, I've been working on the speed bag, too... plan to go to the gym in Bogota, and 'showcase' my skills...jajaaa

No. But, I am going to stop at the first place I see a bunch of 10-yr-olds playing soccer and command a lil respect por los gringos. lol
si. girls' soccer, por supuesto! ;)

Voy por del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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cayita says on May 26, 2007, 07:10:

macho bull boy the chests seem to be puffing up and out here today...It is getting out of hand so let me share with you. Glad to see you little guys got a hero. I could tell you about the robbery I saw where the little guy fought the little guy and while he was busing fending off this thief he got a bullet in the back of his head. I would tell you that story but I wouldn't want to spoil your macho Rambo fantasies.
Please continue....

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podborski says on May 26, 2007, 09:57:

don't jump to conclusions cayita I have posted many times that I think by FAR the best strategy, and certainly the one I would use, is to run like hell. Many people here disagree with me, that's up to them.

I was more impressed that the guy I saw obviously had learned some self defence techniques that looked like they worked pretty well.

My heart jumped when the guy on the ground used his free hand to reach into the sleeve of his coat and the little guy immediately stopped him, then pulled out another cellphone that was hidden there.

I agree, the little guy could have been shot quite easily, but he wasn't.

Kind of dishearteneing to see that some people are so fed up with crime as to risk their lives to do something about even a minor theft.

If everyone looked the other way, we'd be in real trouble, wouldn't you say?

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goin_south says on May 26, 2007, 10:35:

....and today.... I'm practicing....STILT WALKING...lol

Voy por del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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goin_south says on May 26, 2007, 10:36:

Hey! It looks good from up here! I think I can see the Palace of Narino

Voy por del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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Robert Jorge says on May 26, 2007, 10:45:

This thread made me think of something in Villavicencio. I don't know if it is a program that is common in Colombia. In Villavicencio, at about 9 or 10 at night, each barrio has a bicycle riding police guy. Actually, they are more like security guards. They ride up and down the streets, and every 10 or 15 seconds, they blow a whistle to let people know where they are. If somebody has an emergency, they can flag down the guard, and the guy has a cell phone to call the real police or an ambulance, or whatever. He also has a billy club. I just thought it was kind of a cool program. I can remember getting up at 3am to use the facility or get a drink of water, and hearing the whistles out in the neighborhood.

And for the record, if I was to ever be confronted, I plan on being the world record holder in the 400 meter dash. If surrounded, I will give them everything on my person. I always tried to keep this in the back of my mind, so I never carried something I couldn't live without. Never had my passport, always the minimum amount of money necessary, cell phone left at home in the evening, no credit or debit cards, etc.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 26, 2007, 11:08:

Didnt NY have some group like that, RJ? they wore red berets? and white Tshirts? The Guardian Angels or something like that?

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Titan says on May 26, 2007, 11:19:

A big guy shouldn'y be picking pockets period. Usually big people aren't as agile or as fast as a smaller framed person hence, they shouldn't be picking anybody's pockets. They need a quick getaway etc... Big Guys should stick to a differant profession.

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sfphil says on May 26, 2007, 14:57:

Was that a put-down? I don't get it, cayita. Are you the referee here or something?

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goin_south says on May 26, 2007, 21:49:

No, really cayita; on the soccer field, I can still stop a 60-yard pass through the air, ON A COLOMBIAN PESO.
STRENGTHENING...falling; the peso, the economy? Que?
Laissez-faire? Is that a thing of the past? Too much manipulation in the world today? No one can any longer be left just to find the level of economic affairs that is naturally right?

I think that is history, eh?
Did I get off on the wrong thread?

Has anyone really wondered what Darth Vadar & the Colombian Queen of England talked about today, and how many bottles of wine they passed through? jejee! You Go! Girls.

Voy por del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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cayita says on May 28, 2007, 08:05:

no refree no I just wanted to introduce a dose of reality so you boys won't let your marbles get you killed or thrown in prison. If this guy was standing on the neck of the other guy and all he did was pick his pocket than it was illegal in Colombia. It is up to the police when they show up to exercise the law or turn their heads. It is common place here that a person get's pick pocketed, if you use excessive force to defend against this in Colombia you can be the one going to jail.

Under the law you have the right to use equal force to fend off an attacker. In other words if he pulls a knife you can pull a knife, after he stabs you then you can stab him. After he shoots you then you can shoot him, etc.

I have seen late comers arriving on the scene of such a thing only to attack the police for being a little heavy handed with the scum who deserved it.

So there you are gringo beating up some Colombiano and you think you will get a cheer? Nope, more likely when the police show up their will be a crowd mad as hell at YOU. The police will then take YOU away and throw you in jail where you will not be to popular setting along side the thief you beat up.

Even pick pocketers have someone backing them up usually. This guy was lucky he lived to be the hero the odds are next time he won't.

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Titan says on May 28, 2007, 23:59:

Screw That, If I get victimized or there is an attempt to victimize me, you can surely bet I will fight the person off with at least equal force to thwart the attempt. I'm not going to wait until I get stabbed or shot in order to retaliate. I'll take my chances and deal with the consequences later. I'd rather deal with the Colombian Justice system or any other justice system than let myself become a victim to some criminal. This Gringo don't play.

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goin_south says on May 29, 2007, 02:16:

I second that,....Titan. Voy para del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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podborski says on May 29, 2007, 05:43:

I think cayita is prone to hyperbole Anyway, the guy was not 'standing' on the other guy's neck, he had one foot on it while he held one of the guy's arms at the same time, which seemed a remarkably good way to immobilize him.

The guy was talking, asking to be forgiven, so he was hardly in serious pain.

Now one person in the crowd was extremely mad and tried several times to kick the person on the ground in the head (clearly this person had been robbed or whatever too), and I was about to stop him but the little guy managed to fend him off as well.

And I really don't know if he was a pickpocket or what, as I only saw him get caught. I guessed that was his crime as he seemed to have more than a couple of wallets and cellphones.

I'm sure glad there are people like that little guy around, that's all I can say.

I'm thinking it will be at least a little while before that particular thief goes back to his trade.

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 05:54:

yea right he is back to work at it today.

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 06:00:

I hope you're right Cayita and you deserve to be his next target.

Rubito, you summed it up perfectly. I hope that agreeing with you does't make me a macho tough guy asshole. I just like to see justice be done. What Cayita describes as the normal situation sounds like a gross perversion of justice that actually favors the criminal. What BS. And even if it were true, and this were the case, that doesn't mean it should be. Cayita, are you saying this is how it ought to be? Defending the status quo? Trying to show off that you are more street savvy than the rest of us? Or what?

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 06:35:

No David in Idaho I am just trying to save your life! You are not in Idaho when you come here. Colombian men for the most part give over what they have and do not fight. It is not because you gringos are tuffer than they are or more of a man it is because they know the score here. The police here do not have a rep of taking criminals off the streets. More like they ride them around for a while and let them go. There is no room in the prisons for petty thieves!

Oh and I am so happy to know what kind of man you are David that you would wish that on a woman. Go ahead and fight back and your family can visit you in the morgue.

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Titan says on May 29, 2007, 07:03:

Right on the Money Rubito! You said it well.

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 07:12:

oh Rubito is a real man as he attacks a woman on here. Along with all the other abused children THAT HAVE NO RESPECT FOR WOMEN ON HERE. Rubito you are so stupid I have no idea what to tell you. If you don't change that attitude when you live here you are going to get put in a bag. The reason those people stand around and watch is because they have lived here a long time, all their lives and a lot of them in particular if they live in a bad neighborhood has seen what happens to good samaritans and that is they get shot! They also know it is better to go buy a new cell phone and come home and hug their children than run the risk of not. These guys very rarely work alone and this example for this hero is the odd account. In small towns this is common in large cities you have got to think differently.

To put it in language even you can understand. NO FUCKING CELL PHONE OR AMOUNT OF FUCKING MONEY IS WORTH GETTING MOTHER FUCKING STABBED, SHOT OR FUCKING KILLED OVER. FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT

Where did this happen I would like to know from the original poster.

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Titan says on May 29, 2007, 07:22:

Cayita's ...ideologies run contrary to mine. I feel a little anti-Gringo in the way Cayita describes things. So let's listen to this wise person who claims to be trying to impart a little wisdom upon us and freely give into Criminals in Colombia because it would be safer to do this. Let's also give into Criminals because it's a lose-lose sitution considering the Police won't do their job if this Criminal gets caught. Let's consider giving into a Criminal because it would be in our interest to do so because Cayita says that Colombian Criminals are so unique that they are deserving of a differant title than no other Criminal has. Let's also consider that Colombian Criminals are so differant along with the Police that they don't exist anywhere else in the world. Let's consider that Cayita is trying to school us in these aspects of life concerning Bad versus Evil because Cayita is trying to save our lives by telling us to give into these unique type of Criminals. Yea Right!!! I don't think so. Either Cayita underestimates some of the Gringos here on this board, empathizes with Criminals, doesn't care for Gringos, Victimizes Gringos, or is plain ignorant about justice and when and how it should be served. Maybe Cayita is an Anarchist who beleives that Criminals should run rampant and freely without any recourse? I don't really know but I'm sure if you read what Cayita says you could come up with your own conclusions. Peace out and be safe no matter where you are. Don't be a vicitm. Don't look the other way and help your brother and/or sister in distress.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 29, 2007, 07:29:

Stop making personal insults .

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Titan says on May 29, 2007, 07:29:

Hey Cayita, just because Rubito or anybody else makes a comment or disagrees with you, it doesn't entail that they have no respect for women. I don't recall anybody disrepecting women during any of these exchanges. People were commenting on the way you think and your comments on this subject, not your gender. I didn't even know you were a woman. I'm sure others didn't as well.

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webmanco says on May 29, 2007, 07:44:

I heard from a woman




that she would put always a fight every time someone was trying to take something beloning to her. Only after she got pregnant she says she won’t put a fight anymore.

On one ocasion on Avenida Suba I was in a car with a friend, we saw to guys snapping a cellphone from a Transmilenio female worker, and were running thru Humedal Cordoba, we stopped and I got out the car and run after the guys, they drop the cell phones, righ on Avenida Suba another car stopped behind us to help, but it was not necesary. The guys got lost in the humedal, and we took the girl to avenida Boyaca so she could take her bus.

It hurts more when you hear thefts taking belongings from hard working people.

Don’t need to confuse helping people or defending yourself with playing being a hero, if you are outnumbered or the other party holds a knife or a gun, it is better to let it go.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 08:18:

I appreciate your concern Cayita Even though it does not sound at all genuine. And for the record, you have no idea what kind of man I am. Yes, Idaho is an extremely safe place. I've also lived in Philadelphia, which makes Colombia feel like Disneyland by comparison, as far as safety goes. And yes, I have followed your so-called advice and given in to crooks when I knew they had me out-numbered and out-gunned. My sense of self-preservation is stronger than my sense of justice. I'm not a bad ass and in fact, have no experience at all in physical combat. Nonetheless, I take off my hat in full respect for the people who can and do stand up to such criminals. As other posters have pointed out, this is honorable and courageous and worthy of our praise. If, as you claim, the average Colombian bystander would actually side with the criminal, I'd like to know more about why you have this opinion. It goes against all common sense. Why would Colombians feel this way? Rather than attack me personally, let's keep this thread on track and actually answer the questions honestly and respectfully. I know you must be capable of honor and respect, so now is your chance to prove it.

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 08:38:

ok gringo cowboys come to Colombia and bring your American idealogy here and see how far you get. See how much change you are able to inject into this society. Come and be the hero and you sure won't be hanging out with me. Fighting over a cell phone is stupid, plain and simple. I would never walk down the street with a Colombian with these kind of ideas in his head. I don't want to get shot over his stupidity. I also don't want a man that is so stupid to think he is going to come here and fight a criminal and change things.

I am not anti gringo but you guys talk like you are crusaders and I just have to tell you I have been with men far better than you and they have handed things over and not fought back. Not because they couldn't but because it was not smart. Anyway do your little fight on the street and hurt that criminal badly and as a forigner I will promise you that someone will be grabbing your arm and holding you for the police. You will not be a hero you will be a gringo hurting a Colombian.

If you don't know I am a woman with a name like Cayita then learn some Spanish.

Anyway according to Rubito I am a coward and others I am a gringo hater. So just because someone dissagrees with your little crusade ideals that you have NEVER placed into action you don't have to label them a hater. Yep and I am trying to save you. You guys are totally in the dark to life in Colombia. People here know it is a waiste of time to call the police so they don't. Put that guy in jail and when he comes out he will look you up and kill you. But you will still have your cell phone.

I see how most of you behave toward women on this board and it is a dissgrace. Men won't fight over a cell phone here but if you come here and speak to a lady the way we have been spoken to on this board I can promise you an ass kicken you will never forget.

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webmanco says on May 29, 2007, 09:53:

! But you will still have your cell phone.

to call earth

A few months ago 3 sicarios in Bogotá got arrested because they try to steal a few millions pesos from a guy in his car. There was some shooting involved between sicarios and the police, they got arrested and "surprisingly" released without a couple of days, the victim was talking to the press and afraid for his life.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 10:42:

Good one Cayita You've been with, how did you put it? Ah yes, "men far better" than us. But since you don't know us and never will, this statement only highlights the ridiculousness of your point of view.

Of course, as my own post above indicates, I totally agree with you that more often than not, it does make sense to let the crook have his way. A cell phone for a life is a terrible trade and one I'd never make. What bothers me, however, is your assertion that Colombians will stick up for Colombians, regardless of the issue. In other words, you claim that bystanders will support the criminal and comdemn the victim, if they happen to be Colombian and Foreign, respectively. If this is truly how you picture your own society, my question is this: Do you think that is right? Are you defending this attitude, as your post implies? Or just explaining how it is, so we will act accordingly while in Colombia? Please clarify.

Contrary to your claims, most of us (including myself) have been to Colombia many times, as well as other Latin American countries. You might try treating us like the experienced and worldly travelers we are, and not some clueless idiots in need of your gracious condescension. Again, let's address the issue and not each other, if you're able. If not, try logging off and doing something else.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 29, 2007, 11:03:

sorry Rubito, but i do agree with cayita, and that is not being a coward, i am just 5'2 not 6'2 and in Colombia every thief carry a knife or a gun and they don't think twice in shooting at you. I am sorry if you want to call me a coward as well, but i have two kids and a family to think off and for them I am prepare to be a selfish coward.

the only thing i am prepare to do is to call the police but i would never interfered.

the only time I will interfere is if one of my nearest and dearest are in danger

engage brain before opening mouth

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 11:14:

david go back to the first grade and learn how to read before you put words in my mouth. Oh and just for that and the other forms of your attacks I can make the statement that I know men far better than you. They don't have to put words in my mouith to win an argument.
"is your assertion that Colombians will stick up for Colombians, regardless of the issue. In other words, you claim that bystanders will support the criminal and comdemn the victim,"
I never said this, you did. We don't support the criminal and I never even hinted at that. But if you are so ignorant not to know that you being the rich gringo beating up on some poor crook might not put you in favor with everyone that might be passing by. Then you who speak absolutely NO SPANISH start to explain to the people around and the police who speak NO ENGLISH how this guy was trying to rob you.
The whole time the thief is crying how you just attacked him for no reason. Yep even if you speak Spanish the people on the street are not automatically going to be on your side for beating up a criminal. A Colombian doing it is different than a forigner.
You have no idea about how things are in Colombia. You are just ignorant and have no point of reference to agree or dissagree with me on this issue. Just stay up in Idaho or wherever.
You guys look rediculous when you come here and try not to be scared. I saw one of ya last night and it was rediculous the way that guy walked around. I know if he got a gun stuck in his face he would need a change of underwear.

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 11:22:

I have an idea though how to get these thiefs off the street and in prison for a long time. You gringos come here and fight them and then when their friend shoots you dead the police will have a reason to hold them and the judge will have a reason to lock them up for a long time.

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 11:26:

Keep the false assumptions coming my dear Actually I speak fluent Spanish and teach it for a living. This is a good thing, since my Colombian wife doesn't (yet) speak English. Why do you consistently weaken your argument by resorting to false assumptions? Remember, as I said earlier, I agree with you! But I'm curious about your attitudes concerning this issue of bystanders.

Putting words in your mouth? Sorry if you got that impression. What I'm really trying to do is better understand the words that are coming out of your keyboard. It does seem that you condone the fact that Colombian bystanders will defend Colombian crooks. But if you read my post, you'll see that I'm really just asking you for clarification. A simple yes or no would suffice. But ranting and insulting are just getting us farther off track.

And what's up with all the personal attack BS? Are you really that unable to have a discussion about an issue without getting personal? Jeez! Enough already. And if you're going to attack my ability to read, maybe you should work on your spelling. It is rather "rediculous," but not bad for a non-native speaker.

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 11:31:

Putting words in your mouth? "We don't support the criminal and I never even hinted at that."

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I thought you said several times that the bystanders would be against the "rich" gringo and in favor of the "poor" Colombian criminal. Did I misunderstand, or isn't this what you keep claiming? And if so, isn't this "supporting" the criminal?

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 12:54:

oh yea you are some real gentleman "So Cayita as for "not put into action" you can stick that one in your gomela ass!" Rubito

I think Rubito you are full of crap.

David you were making a statement that I was supporting the criminal even against Colombians. I am not, you have very little time in Colombia and this is an assupmtion I am making since you think 100% like someone from the US and not from Colombia. I never hear Colombians boasting about how they will fight off an attacker. You are also way way out of touch how you as a gringo are viewed in Colombia these days. Way way out of touch but no skin off my nose. You can all come and be the tuff guy, you won't be the first gringo to go home in a jar that attempted to fight off an attacker. You won't be the last either.

I am drawing conclusions from what you are writing and you are trying to put me in my place with you condenscending remarks. You do this because you have like I said before no reference to draw upon. You have no clue what you are talking about and so therefor you mix words. You belittle my opinion and not offer one yourself. Oh yea that is what real men are made of.

I am not impressed with you or to say the least Rubito. You pick a fight with a woman no less and then run off and backpeddle belittle and reinvent my position and then attack it. You are the cowards boys, not me. I have seen it happen over and over again on this site.

What is up with that you boys are afraid of real women and is why you can't handle your own gringa's so you run off to SA and think these women will just eat your crap. I suppose some will to get a better life but beleive me they will never give you more.

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 12:54:

oh yea you are some real gentleman "So Cayita as for "not put into action" you can stick that one in your gomela ass!" Rubito

I think Rubito you are full of crap.

David you were making a statement that I was supporting the criminal even against Colombians. I am not, you have very little time in Colombia and this is an assupmtion I am making since you think 100% like someone from the US and not from Colombia. I never hear Colombians boasting about how they will fight off an attacker. You are also way way out of touch how you as a gringo are viewed in Colombia these days. Way way out of touch but no skin off my nose. You can all come and be the tuff guy, you won't be the first gringo to go home in a jar that attempted to fight off an attacker. You won't be the last either.

I am drawing conclusions from what you are writing and you are trying to put me in my place with you condenscending remarks. You do this because you have like I said before no reference to draw upon. You have no clue what you are talking about and so therefor you mix words. You belittle my opinion and not offer one yourself. Oh yea that is what real men are made of.

I am not impressed with you or to say the least Rubito. You pick a fight with a woman no less and then run off and backpeddle belittle and reinvent my position and then attack it. You are the cowards boys, not me. I have seen it happen over and over again on this site.

What is up with that you boys are afraid of real women and is why you can't handle your own gringa's so you run off to SA and think these women will just eat your crap. I suppose some will to get a better life but beleive me they will never give you more.

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podborski says on May 29, 2007, 13:02:

It's all clear to me now, DG/GIB went away to have a sex change operation!: )

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webmanco says on May 29, 2007, 13:21:

Podborski might be right

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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cayita says on May 29, 2007, 13:44:

Oh ok everyone now that the paranoid delusional people have showed up let me sum up this thread.

Gringo's are all real men who fight off every attacker no matter how big and defend every person within eyesight from any harm.

Colombians are wimps that don't have the balls to protect themselves and support the criminal, basically we are all cowards.

OK no need for more.

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 15:30:

or a gender issue Since it isn't. I think Cayita's frequent attempts to make this a gender issue tells us something about her.

En fin, I've had more productive discussions with my dog. On one hand we have people like Rubito and Podborski, with interesting viewpoints and experiences, and on the other, Cayita, who sees every post as an opportunity to fight. The irony here is that her supposed viewpoint is that people shouldn't fight. Am I the only one who sees this as hilarious?

Cayita, I cannot discuss this with you if you won't stick to the topic. It is a shame, because for a while there I actually thought you were going to provide some authentic insight into the workings of the Colombian mind. But no. Mere rantings and name-calling and general BS. That is NOT what this site is for, although many have tried to make it so. Join the club!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 29, 2007, 16:18:

I could live with my kids saying "my father was killed in a robbery" but NOT with them saying "my father taught me by example that when somebody threatens you you give them whatever you want." Hell, I'd rather my own kids be killed than have them grow up as fucking pirobos.

sorry rubito, but that is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life!!!!!!




I was robed in Bogota at knife point, the knife was a 3 inch knife and the guy taller than me, i am sorry bu i am not going to loose my precious life for a few golden rings some pesos and a stupid honor, I am worth more than that.

engage brain before opening mouth

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 19:23:

Differences in values This makes me think of the debates I had in high school. The specific event I competed in is called Lincoln-Douglas Debate, (modeled after the famous debates between Abe Lincoln and Stephen Douglas in 1858) whereby opposing teams defend their position based on their chosen hierarchy of values. In other words, a debater like Rubito would claim that Honor is more important than Life, taken as abstract values. Someone like Cayita would counter that Life is more important than Honor, and each team would give their reasons and rebuttals. Of course, as a competition event, everyone maintained a courteous tone and personal attacks just never occurred. (You would be considered very immature and uncouth, and henceforth lose all respect, if only from the nerds on the speech team.)

The Honor is more important than Life position makes me think of Samurais. Rubito, promise me you won't commit hare kare (sp?) with a kitchen knife if for any reason you ever lose your honor. And by the way, even if you don't think it is admirable to stand up to thieves, I still think you're cool, even if possibly foolhardy sometimes.

What about some other values that are more important than life? Was it Patrick Henry that said "Give me liberty or give me death?" How many Americans share that view now? For that matter, if Pat had been captured, enslaved, and in all other ways deprived of his liberty, do you think he would've taken his own life? Or maybe, just maybe, he was pontificating like a PBHer!

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 29, 2007, 20:38:

Super Internet Heroes..........PBH MachoMan Mentality...... pounding of the chests..whose is bigger?....world is full of DEAD heroes...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 29, 2007, 20:55:

The Wise Man picks and chooses his battles, in order to win ... the war.....plays his strengths against the bad guys weaknesses.....kinda like common sense to some......greek to others...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 29, 2007, 21:19:

Brave words from armchair keyboard warriors....jajajajjajaj Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 21:41:

OK Rubito and Livefree, You've stated your position, now defend it: Why is a dead hero better than a live coward? Why, exactly?

Can cowards still live a satisfying life, one with love, happiness, success, etc? If the life of a coward, for some reason, is so terrible that it is better to not live at all, please tell me what that reason is.

Mind you, this is purely academic. On one hand, I totally agree with you that action should be taken if and when it is possible, and my sense of justice gets very aroused at the thought of some dickhead criminal getting bested by his would-be victim. Yet at the same time, the "life for a cellphone" trade still seems like an unnecessary waste of life.

In any case, if I'm ever getting mugged, I hope Rubito and Livefree happen to be bystanders!

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Man Tequila says on May 29, 2007, 22:03:

While heroes are few and far between, attacking a mugger is not an act of heroism. I'd rather lose my cellphone than my life. Honour is important, but being dead doesn't feed your family or make your spouse and friends happier (or maybe it does, what do I know?).

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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webmanco says on May 29, 2007, 22:11:

Life goes on There are not excuses for robbers but before anyone feels his honor is at risk by losing a material thing and decides to fight to death, the offended person should give it a thought as for the motives of the mugger. When I see police after a mugger and see sometimes how they beat them up, taking turns I sometimes prefer not to press charges.

I rode in a police car along with the snapper of my mobile phone, they drove us from San Victorino to Estación Bacata, near Universidad de los Andes. All the way to the police station the robber was offering me double the cost of the phone, it was around chritsmast time and the guy told me he was doing it to buy presents to his children.

The best solution many times is to play threats, gossip and spammers down and try not to feel offended by virtual fights.

Life goes on.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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David in Idaho says on May 29, 2007, 22:26:

Life, like anything else has exactly as much value as we assign it. I was merely interested in your opinions on this philosophical issue. Don't refer me to some essay I'll never read. Don't tell me you "don't have time" when the volume of your posting clearly shows that you do. Can you say in a concise manner why you find human life so worthless? I happen to find human life to be extremely valuable. In fact, all the things I hold most valuable (love, family, ...) would not be possible without it. That is simple. Futhermore, we are all hardwired with serious survival instincts to make sure we protect our lives, in case we become misguided and start believing that indeed, it is worthless. Tell your stomach that after fasting for a couple weeks. Tell your lungs once you've been underwater for a couple minutes. Rubito, life is the most precious thing you'll ever have.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 29, 2007, 22:33:

And back when there were heroes, James Thurber wrote "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty."



I think we have a few Walter Mittys on this site.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 30, 2007, 01:45:

Rubito I do agree with your second post starting with "I do NOT advocate handling every threat with immediate and brutal violence. Just the ones where it is most appropriate."



But I don't agree with the kidnappings thing, the last thing you want is to lose hope and to me : commiting suicide is just as coward.

I might have or not a pathetic little life but i do sure value it, and I am not going to help others if I see my own life is in danger.

I always tell my kids, material things can be replace but your life not.

I totally agree with you Tequila Man, I definitely not going to lose my life for a cell phone, that is being stupid.

Es mejor que digan: aquí corrió un cobarde y no, aqui murió un valiente. Evitar el peligro no es cobardía. Los valientes y el buen vino duran poco.

engage brain before opening mouth

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ecco says on May 30, 2007, 03:14:

Rubito after writing all those comments about sticking up for yourself and fighting off the attacker (which by the way I think would be ideal- however, I also value life more than that), how can you then say you would immediatedly committ suicide if kidnapped? That sounds contradicting to me. I would have expected you to say something else. Like in fact, why don't you try and take out the kidnappers- one by one? Then you might not only be a hero but a super hero, for not only saving yourself but also any other kidnap victims at the same time. I would at least think trying to escape would be something for you to really consider. You might get shot but at least you would have made the attempt.

I also think that saying "I'd rather my own kids be killed than have them grow up as fucking pirobos." is just plain crazy. I don't have words to answer to that yet.

I think you'd be better suited living in the age/world of Conan the Barbarian or something :)

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podborski says on May 30, 2007, 06:10:

In Toronto I knew a guy from Medellin who had been kidnapped when he was 17 yrs old. (This happened more than 15 years ago). The 2 young guys put in charge of looking after him fell asleep, meanwhile my friend was wide awake, being terrified for his life.

He had to make a choice to try to sneak out quietly or grab the gun from one guy's belt.

He grabbed the gun and ended up having to shoot the guy. The second guy backed off.

So he made it, and very shortly after was bundled on a plane to the safety of Canada.

Compare that to the drama of my life, where a big deal was if we ran out of froot loops in the morning.

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CaritadeAngel says on May 30, 2007, 07:32:

Let me draw your fire a little
Word on the street is that there is a rumble goin' down on this thread with a bunch of guys gangin' up on a lassie. OK, bampots, now there is two of us.

Did you know that the women of my country are considered superior fighters to the men? We are the ones who break up gang fights, while the men lie cowering in a corner. We make the most vicious cops known to man. I know one plain-clothed WPC who kept a half-brick in her handbag for emergencies.

Julius Caesar once remarked "A Celtic warrior, when accompanied by his wife, is nearly impossible to beat". Too right. While the Roman soldier was fighting the Celt hand-to-hand (underneath that armour they were soft - what with all that central heating) the lassie snuck up behind him and slit his throat. But see that Roman? He was probably a man of honour, taking the course of action that was "most appropriate".

Cayita is right: there is a time for bravery and a time to hand over your mobile. In Colombia I never carry my cards with me, cash only, and only what I know I'm going to need. My mobile phone is cheep and does the job, but isn't flashy. Like the Colombianas, I wear “cheepy� earrings which look nice but obviously aren't worth anything. Justice? Yup: my natural instinct is fight, not flight. A part of me (the ancient, celtic, throat-slitter) wants to gut him. But I would rather be alive. She is right: many of you, with that kind of naïve hero-mentality, would not get you far in other places in the world.

That said, you have to remember that men have the “hero gene�. And if a girl was ever in real trouble, she might be glad that a guy chooses fight over flight. I remember one time in Mexico, which reminded me of that, and I have a scar on my hand to remind me for the rest of my life of my own stupidity and his courage.

He that knows better how to tame a shrew,
Now let him speak; 'tis charity to shew."

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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CaritadeAngel says on May 30, 2007, 17:49:

I love my life too much Rubito Kill myself for the common good? Well, I'm glad you're being so selfless, Rubito, but you may find that in a real situation, you will find that your life would become terribly sweet to you. Sucide is an unnatural act. In my case, (and being a girl, a gang of soldiers "having their way" has a very special meaning) I wouldn't kill myself. Its damnably difficult to kill the human spirit.

Why all the vitriol against the police?

He that knows better how to tame a shrew, Now let him speak; 'tis charity to shew."

"I hope I never say anything worth quoting".

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gringoloid says on May 30, 2007, 21:26:

Cayita, your point is taken....... but sometimes men know what they can handle and what they can't handle. They have experience at street fighting.

donGringo took a guy out one night with one punch. dg is big and he trains alot, he knows what his limitations are and aren't, so he went for it.

Something can still go wrong, but living in NYC for 17 years, I had a lot of luck with defending myself.

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lochdhu says on May 30, 2007, 23:13:

I disagree carita, Suicide is a natural act, but it depends on how you view the act, and the circumstances surrounding the suicide itself.



www.SantaMarta.com

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goin_south says on May 30, 2007, 23:15:

blah, blah, blahh blahhhhhh, .... all of you. F*q all this fightin bs.
I'm a lover, not a fighter.
I don't invite that into my life.
on my last day in bogota,
I'm gonna walk through the meanest barrio
goin....southside,
stinky, smelly, filthy...
look like scumbag...
attitude to myself.
and, no one's going to give a f*q.
so what are you all wasting so much time here
like someone says, armchair QB'in,
like yer a badass in BQ.

What a waste of talk.

Voy para del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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goin_south says on May 30, 2007, 23:39:

a few months ago, you were spewing forth the fact of how safe and peaceful The City has become, as compared to 15 years ago, when I use to visit there (mostly jus to go see some baseball, but then a game only lasts a few hours, so you gotta look for a few other things to do, which ain't no challenge, but then hanging out in the Bronx for a few hours before de game use to be a challenge of it's own, an enjoyable one, albeit.)

Voy para del Sur

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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miamimike says on May 31, 2007, 00:23:

What Did General George Patton say about War&Fighting,,, "The Object of War is Not to die for your Country but to get the Other Bastard to Die for His"

http://www.stellar-crisis.net/patton.html


Not long here in Miami, a Security Guard(unarmed type) was robbed at Gunpoint for his Wallet and Watch; he decided to fight instead and today he is Dead and pushing Daisies Up over less then $100,,,Life was Cheap for him,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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lochdhu says on May 31, 2007, 01:08:

Well that was the security guards option to fight back. just part of natures way of "thinning the herd"


www.SantaMarta.com

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 31, 2007, 09:19:

For all the Rambo-types out there, 6'5, 250 all muscle Bruce Lee martial artists types, etc......it only takes 1 to 2 lbs of trigger pull to fire a gun...how big does your opponent have to be to pull 1 to 2 lbs of trigger pull? does it really matter how big your juevos are, how fit you are, how trained in this and trained in that you are, how huge you are?? not really.....5 year olds can and have, pulled a trigger.......

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gringoloid says on May 31, 2007, 11:32:

C'mon Miguel put your thumb in between the hammer and the shell, and then put on a death grip and take the gun away from him.

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Miguel_Clavo says on May 31, 2007, 12:24:

or how about this one? put your finger in the barrel??? jajajja or whip out your own gun and shoot his gun out of the bad guys hand??..a partner of mine shot a nutjob who was holding a knife in his hand and advancing on my friend.....my friend shot, hit the guy in the hand holding the knife, causing him to drop it.....everyone called him Wyatt for awhile...but the truth is he got lucky, as he was a pisspoor shot....ajajajaj.

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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kat1 (Moderator) says on May 31, 2007, 12:46:

we have lots super sayayins we have lots of super sayayins here

engage brain before opening mouth

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Man Tequila says on May 31, 2007, 13:47:

Life has a different value depending on if you ask your spouse ("Rubito, dear, I've been thinking it's time you took out more insurance") or if you ask the good folks at Dow Chemical ("You're mainly salt and water! Not more than a couple dollars worth of ingredients there.")

Society takes the value of a human life into account when it sets speed limits. Hypothetically, if it cost ten cents to add a device to your car that would save ten lives per year, would you pay it? What if you had to pay an extra $10,000 for a car widget that would save a thousand lives per year? What if you didn't pay it and someone called you a "big pussy scaredy-cat..."

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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houstongal says on May 31, 2007, 20:02:

MT...huh? Would you please explain your quote attributed to Dow Chemical?

Culture is language and language is culture - Dr. Annamaria Napolitano

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Beef27 says on Jun 1, 2007, 00:11:

cayita is the most controversial person on this site. i just don't get her. i see there is an undertone to her message that is positive, but the lady does not go about it in the right way. her first response was totally negative, and instead of stating..."hey, you guys this is a lucky guy as most people know you can and more than likely get stabbed or shot", she just goes off about gringo this and that. for someone that is not anti-gringo, in all of your posts, i have yet to see a positive thing towards gringos. i do have to say, you do make sense in your statements, but in a very negative way. Stopped being so pissed off all the time, it's bad for the heart. peace

Paul WallSemper Fi

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Beef27 says on Jun 1, 2007, 00:24:

i posted off the first page of comments only to notice the many more comments after posting in response to Cayita. I'm more of a fighter myself, being a former Marine and currently Personal Security detail member in Afghanistan for diplomats. However, I am trained in living too and to judge the situation as such. Shit, your pride might hurt for awhile, but it ain't worth all the material things and money you have on yourself at that moment....and I consider myself a pretty tough guy still!! I'll just be a living one to enjoy another day, instead of dead. Still have my pride too, since I'll be a Marine 'til I do die. peace

Paul WallSemper Fi

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Man Tequila says on Jun 1, 2007, 01:21:

The Dow chemical quote was a joke. It's true that the value of the chemicals used to make a human body is pretty low.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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webmanco says on Jun 1, 2007, 04:46:

I am not a marine a sailor or anythig like that but given some situations I would also give away material things without believing I am losing my pride, honor or whatever.

Most of the time I don´t blame the robbers but the Goverment for not creating more jobs and educating people on not brining too many kids, for not stimulating the self employment and for wanting to create more prisons over social investment.

Because if I take my "anger" on someone who is steling from me I might as well in a way giving justice a bad name. I want my things back if posible but won´t lose a lot of sleep over it.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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aztec says on Jun 1, 2007, 05:22:

webmanco "Most of the time I don´t blame the robbers but the Goverment for not creating more jobs and educating people on not brining too many kids, for not stimulating the self employment and for wanting to create more prisons over social investment."

During the Great Depression the unemployment was 25% and even higher in the Black population. People had nothing but they felt safe. We never locked the doors to our house unless we went away for a week or more. There were very few criminals like you see today.

Something has happened to our society that has changed the value system. I suspect some of the problem is because we blame the government or the "Man" for our shortcomings. Personal responsibility is in short supply.

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webmanco says on Jun 1, 2007, 05:44:

As a person "People had nothing but they felt safe"

That is another issue, the desire to posses many things that are not necesary in reality.


I can only account for my actions, as a nation is the government or whoever is suppose to manage the taxes and National resources

Colombia can welcome many Rambos who believe that usig violence will be a deterrent for bad people to star behaving. That is not the case always. Paracos and guerrilleros are one sample.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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webmanco says on Jun 1, 2007, 06:02:

Only if you are part of the Clan Illegal groups can lower their own violence at will and go from one town to another. Where ever it suits them better for their purposes.

Jobs well paid are the best deterrent, maybe that is what attracts men and women to join those groups, and other Colombians to leave the country. And to get well paid jobs education is needed.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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slguy says on Jun 2, 2007, 07:58:

This thread cracks me up. a gringo-hating chick with a big yap...several Rambo wannabe's...CA, riding in to rescue the big-mouthed chick - no matter how mouthy and antagonistic the chick is...we learn that street criminals bear no responsibility for their actions- it's the government's fault for not providing the bad guys the good jobs they so richly deserve...and the only people using any reason at all, completely ignored.
This beats the TV, any day.
slguy
*
*
*




Now I don't have to tell you good folks what's been happening in our beloved little town. Sheriff murdered, crops burned, stores looted, people stampeded, and cattle raped. The time has come to act, and act fast. I'm leaving.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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