The word Gringo...is it offensive or not?

msaucey says on Dec 3, 2007, 09:56:

We've had WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too many discussions on the word Gringo....... and debates on if it is offensive of not....

Also, I'm sure you haven't been called guero in Colombia, because the word doesn't exist in Colombia, it's a Mexican word....

Sometimes, taking things to literal can ruin a good time... Rolling with the punches will eventually make things better.... Once you start to relax and not take these things to heart, people will know your name and use it, but if you keep fighting back, there going to add a few other spanish words to gringo....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

msaucey says on Dec 3, 2007, 09:57:

Oh, BTW, Not Offensive... Term of endearment...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

RUV says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:06:

I have said the same thing about the food. Good food but nothing like Mexico, Argentina, or Brazil. I love everthing else.

I have only hear the word Guero used in the California and in parts of Mexico.

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:09:

Only hear Guero in Mexico that's for sure. Did you ever notice Lonely planet has one phrase book for Latin America and another only for Mexico. Man the Spanish is waaaaay different in Mexico. Although the South Americans love learning the Mexican slang I taught them. Really Mexican Spanish is just barely Spanish anymore. It seems like 50% of it is Slang or made up words. Especially in the North.

You don't know your there until your there!

gabolicious says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:10:

Adanimal... it is Pancho Villa and not Poncho Villa you were referring to...

Don't feel offended for the word "gringo"... it is not offensive... thank God you are an american knowing the "roots" of that word, not all mexicans know where it came from... for them it is, as you said, just a word... so don't feel offended and keep on tasting delicious mexican food...

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

Mononoke28 says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:35:

It's not offensive, we just use it mainly for foreign blonde/light eyed people, whether they're from the States or Europe.. That's all. Get over it.

Diana

Diana

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:48:

Diana.(Mononoke28)

Did you even read the post? I said I was not offended in south America.. Only in Mexico!

You don't know your there until your there!

Mononoke28 says on Dec 3, 2007, 10:53:

Why pick and choose where to get offended at? Just let it be.

Diana

Diana

morphus says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:02:

Solution: whenever a Mexican calls you a gringo, you call him a wetback.

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:07:

Diana

It's funny how everyone else is allowed to be offended unless your a White American Man..your just supposed to deal with it. If it meant anything else other than "we don't want you here" I wouldn't care. As I stated it only means this in MEXICO! I have heard Mexicans use it as nothing but I have also heard them use it in a derogatory way and I don't like it. In other Latin Countries I never felt it was used negatively. I travel a lot and try to respect everyone else's customs and taboos. Why can't I get the same respect? If you read my post it clearly states why I get offended in Mexico but not South America. It's obnoxious to discount other peoples perspectives especially if they feel that they are valid.

You don't know your there until your there!

morphus says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:12:

Its offensive in Colombia too. Its a word used to dehumanize you. One time in Cartagena they wrote "gringo" on my receipt. Its like i'm a different species.

Colombiche says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:16:

You are a different species lol.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

msaucey says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:18:

Adanimal.... It is, what it is.... If you are a gringo in Mexico and a gringo in Colombia, why are you going to get all upset about it?...

For the most part, like Gabo has mentioned, most Mexicans don't know the origination of the word and is harmless, if it is said with harm, it's probably like, "Gringo Pendejo", which is probably used right after you've been offended for being called a gringo...

My question is, do you experience the same situation in the states?... You travel abroad and respect the customs and taboos... Chances are that in the states, you're not being called a gringo, because those living or traveling to the states are trying to do the same, follow customs and what not.... So, since you are the traveler, nicknames are part of the deal... Why do the Mexicans have to change their customs to accomodate you, if they are used to calling americans, gringo? Acceptance will get you further....

There is too much in life to worry about then this....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:24:

Right on ...at least Morphus gets where I'm coming from....Geeze...You know what I tell my friends in Colombia? We are all Americans..South, Central, North ..doesn't matter. We are all from the new world and brothers. Why do all the haters try to separate us? That old world mentality has to go. I judge a person by their actions not where they came from...it's ignorant to have these stupid labels to ostracize one another..Who wins that way? Sorry everyone..Diana boiled my blood a little. Telling me to get over it, discounting me like a child.

You don't know your there until your there!

slguy says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:26:

mssaucy's correct, as usual. Don't get your knickers in a twist over something that's of so little consequence.

Many of my friends in latin america want to call me "americano", and I suspect it's because they fear offending me with "gringo". "gringo esta bien, gracia" is what they usually get back from me....;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

Colombiche says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:31:

Colombians in the states get called cokeheads, mules, narcos... Mexicans get called wetbacks, spics etc etc.

So you get offended because you go to Mexico or Colombia and they call you something much more tame than the any of the above: gringo.

Of course, living in that States and belonging to the mainstream majority you are probably not used to having to deal with any of this. So you want to be pampered when you go overseas as well.

What do you want the colombians and mexicans to do, roll out the red carpet....honestly, you are going to have to develop some thicker skin and enjoy the real world: "todo mundo encuentra a su papa".

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:33:

"Its offensive in Colombia too. Its a word used to dehumanize you. One time in Cartagena they wrote "gringo" on my receipt. Its like i'm a different species."

I thought gringos were different species.

Now when I think about it I believe it's just an umbrella term for all non-latino, non-Asian, non-African foreigners. I'm a gringa. Not different species but just a word. Colombians are not that uptight about name-calling. Everybody's called something: fatso, blackie, bones, fish-eyes, cricket, giraff, gringo, chino, cholo, whatever.

It's not meant to dehumanize you, You do that perfectly well on your own account.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:38:

I don't agree that mssaucy is correct. Gringo is not a "nickname" to me. You cannot convince me otherwise. The people that use it without knowing the origin are just ignorant. Yeah I agree so be it. Those who do know the origin should no better and I will never refer to myself as a gringo and perpetuate ignorance. So should I be able to call people SPIC, Camel Jockey, Chink and they should get over it because they are in my country. I disagree. I know better. Sorry..You can't convince me otherwise. Respect my position where I'm coming from even if you don't think it's valid. That's enough for me. I just don't like being discounted.

You don't know your there until your there!

morphus says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:40:

"Colombians in the states get called cokeheads, mules, narcos... Mexicans get called wetbacks, spics etc etc"

Who? I never hear those words being used.

Colombiche says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:42:

"So should I be able to call people SPIC, Camel Jockey, Chink and they should get over it because they are in my country"

Well, ideally no but it happens. The only reason you are bent out of shape is because now YOU are at the receiving end.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

morphus says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:44:

I don't see the big deal. If somebody hurts your feelings, just knock them over the head.

Adanimal says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:46:

Colombiche,

So your saying that I don't care when other people get called derogatory names? You don't know me. I don't like anyone getting called names. Yeah it's more personal when it's me but I don't like it all the way around.

Thanks though for kind of agreeing that it's not right to refer to me as gringo.

You don't know your there until your there!

scotty says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:47:

yes, there has been way to many talks on this subject of the word Gringo, how it got started, what it meant then and what it means now, etc etc.
personally the word doesnt bother me at all, i have heard the word and been called the word and it just doesnt bother me.
Some people are thin skinned and dont like to hear it but in my case i could care less. The part about all this name calling that amazes me is the people who call other people gringo are more thin skinned than the gringos.
Try calling a mexican a wet back, or beaner, or any of the other slang words, they will go balistic on you.
We certainly do live in a PC world, every one is so sensitive and people are just waiting for someone else to say something to them that they can claim racist.
Sometimes i think the word gringo is just a easy way for them to say foriegner, rather than say "he is from the United States of America" they just say "he's a Gringo" and everyone knows he is a foreigner, more than likely north american foreigner.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

Man Tequila says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:53:

Receiving end? These words are all about context, I do not think gringo is by itself an offensive word unless combined with pinche and puñetero. ;)

In Colombia they thought Morphus was a different species? Did they put him in the zoo with a big sign that said "Gringo"? Did he escape and get drunk and find his way to the airport, stopping frequently to piss on things and watch the planes?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Man Tequila says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:54:

Dang, I keep getting "forbidden" errors. Either PBH has my number or this post will eventually be repeated three times -- in which case, sorry.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Colombiche says on Dec 3, 2007, 11:55:

Adanimal, spic was one of the first words I learned in english, that is what the lily white kids at school used to call me.

Gringo isn't even a derogatory term like "spic". I second msaucey that it CAN be used as a term of endearment. I think what will really clue you in is not what they call you, but rather, how they behave toward you. If they call you gringo, but invite you to their house for sancocho and aguardientico then you are doing ok.

Colombians are not a politically correct bunch and most of them probably don't mean any harm when they call you that. By reading your post I perceive that your overall experience in Colombia was pleasant. If you are going to overlook all the great things about Colombia because you are hypersenstive about what they are calling you then you ARE MISSING OUT and wasting your time.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

mranderson says on Dec 3, 2007, 12:04:

I think americans are overly sensitive. Colombia seems to be a bit of fresh air from all the political correctness.

msaucey says on Dec 3, 2007, 12:06:

Adanimal, deragatory names it may be, but this is reality where it exists.... I was in Colombia once, and I was called a Chola.... Now, in the states, I know that it means gang-member, while in Colombia it means a person of mixed lineage, white and indian, and technically, I have white and indian lineage...

So, should I have been offended?.... Umm, no.... Why, because there are WAY to many other things to think about then a label....

I'm a triple minority in the states... If I was to have thin skin and took everything I've heard to heart in the states and abroad, I'd probably be an emotional mess.... But, like I've said, there is WAY too many things to be appreciated in the world then a label with no deeper meaning, then just an EASY way for someone else to identify you....

Of course, if someone tells me something really offensive then I will stand my ground and fight the argument that may arise....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

slguy says on Dec 3, 2007, 12:24:

Adanimal, I have a novel idea.

If you're so thinskinned, maybe you should just keep your happy butt at home, no?

All languages are FULL of words that originated in a completely different manner than what they evolved into. To be offended at a label that has little, if anything, to do with it's origins just makes the rest of us look bad.

"You cannot convince me otherwise". Hardheaded, too. Maybe surrendering your passport is a good idea.

jajajajajajjajaajaj

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

msaucey says on Dec 3, 2007, 12:38:

I agree with slguy, good point, stay home, continue to live in your nice box!

Avoid Europe, definately avoid France, where you'd still be considered, stupid american....

Stay home....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

manINred says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:01:

No one who shows me respect in Colombia would even think about calling me a gringo. In fact, when they hear i'm not american, they say, oh, no sos gringo... which makes me believe that many Colombians use it exclusively for americans

britabroad says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:10:

¨No soy Gringo, soy Inglais", with a big smile seems to work.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

miamimike says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:19:

Adaminal-I get it also as does Morphus, ManlRed ect. If someone refers to you as a Gringo, it is a sign of a person with a Low educational level. I know some here joke about it saying its nothing but that is not true. Say it to the wrong guy and you be picking yourself up off the floor. Thin skinned Yea I guess so. To many of us(myself included) from the USA, its an Insult. Truthfully in my circle of Spanish Friends, I have never been referred to as a Gringo NOR have they referred to other NorthAmericans in the same way. If you are with a group who uses this Term, it says something about the Class(or lack of it) of Person(s) you associate with and maybe its time to change friends. Calling someone a Gringo is like referring to someone who is Spanish as a Spic, wetback ect. Think a Spanish person would be offended if you called them a Spic?Wetback?? Educated people in Col (as well in Miami)simply avoid the term,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

slguy says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:25:

Sorry, MM, but I'll have to disagree. Simply isn't true. Could be that some spanish speaking folks use the term pejoratively, but in my experience, it's more often a term of affection, especially from women. I once had the Harvard-educated president of a central american country refer to me as his gringo friend, and that man is neither low class nor poorly educated.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

pedro says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:29:

NSFW

que nota!

Simon says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:29:

"Calling someone a Gringo is like referring to someone who is Spanish as a Spic, wetback ect. "


And Miamimike,.....we are not' Spanish', not any more than you are 'English'! We are 'hispanics'.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

pedro says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:31:

Relax.

Colombians often call me gringo and I respond to it proudly. No matter how long you live there and how much you assimilate, you'll always be "gringo". Just like the guy who'll always be called "costeno" by the paisas or whatever.

que nota!

billyb says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:34:

If it (gringo) is not preceded with "este" and followed with "ijueputa", then don't get your nickers in a bunch, because it is either neutral or a term of endearment.

Simon says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:37:

"I once had the Harvard-educated president of a central american country refer to me as his gringo friend, and that man is neither low class nor poorly educated."



Slyguy,


I didn't know you were friends with Daniel Ortega!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

donmia says on Dec 3, 2007, 13:59:

I have always liked the term gringo when it has been used to refer to americans. living in miami (soon to be in colombia - hope!) it was just a quick slang to tease each other whenever our cultural differences were highlighted in everyday life. "that's a gringo for you" which was said to me whenever they disagreed with me.

I guess I'm lucky that I just see it that way.

But a friend of mine raised in upstate new york moved to Miami and taught me a great way to deal with the ones that use it derogatorily. #*$% at Gringo! He would always say "well, what else can you expect from a Mexican?" if you've ever been to Miami, we have very, very few mexicans. This usually illicits an angry response of "I'm not Mexican!" and he would always say "it's all the same to me, now get back to the dishes"

Give as good as you get. Sure, it can get you in trouble. But I find showing people how biased they are and seeing how they like being labeled something derogatory is unpleasant.

Now if someone can explain why it is the end of the world to call a Venezuelan a Puerto Rican or a Peruvian a Mexican I would love to hear it. The reaction - no matter which country you use - is extreme. All you have to do is get the country wrong and they lose it. Nationalism is one thing, but it's insane.

Simon says on Dec 3, 2007, 14:01:

So Donmia, you wouldn't have any problem with being called a Canadian, a Brit, Australian, etc.?

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

donmia says on Dec 3, 2007, 14:20:

no. i really wouldn't. and it has happened. i've been accused of all three, actually. always when traveling abroad. which is weird because i have a southern accent.

but getting freaked out, no. Not even irritated.

Man Tequila says on Dec 3, 2007, 14:31:

Chingao!

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Gator says on Dec 3, 2007, 15:02:

This topic has been beaten to death on this site. But if it is followed by ¡Oinche pendejo! ¡Disparan ahora! or ¡Arreste a el gringo! Do NOT worry about a translation. If you hear any combination of the above let panic be your guide.

Many, many friend and the wife;s relatives refer to mae sometime as gringo. As long as it is not preceded by perro I have no problem.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

gold digger says on Dec 3, 2007, 19:10:

They don't mean anything by the word gringo. If it was a negative word, they wouldn't say it to me right to my face. I'm a big guy and could easily beat them down.
They wrote "gringo" on your receipt just to identify you. I'm sure the restaurant didn't have a touch screen computer that printed table # 7 on the receipt.
I do like calling my Puerto Rican friends Mexicans, they like that. lol

miamimike says on Dec 3, 2007, 19:52:

Sorry, MM, but I'll have to disagree. Simply isn't true. Could be that some spanish speaking folks use the term pejoratively, but in my experience, it's more often a term of affection, especially from women. I once had the Harvard-educated president of a central american country refer to me as his gringo friend, and that man is neither low class nor poorly educated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------SL Guy--we all have our differing opinions and levels of Tolerance! Mine is extremely short on this subject! Where I went to School, I was taught to address someone by their Name and/or title and not by a nationality Nic. Different strokes for Different Folks as is exemplified by the Responses on this Thread. Agree to disagree respectively,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

la campiña says on Dec 3, 2007, 20:05:

Depends if your a gringo ! remember my post , mexican soldiers, green uniforms, campesinos shouting " green go green go" as they chased the yankie gun slingers back across the border, ¿?

john_stark says on Dec 3, 2007, 21:03:

"Only hear Guero in Mexico that's for sure."

Not quite. Used in South Texas all the time but I guess that's part of Mexico too.

If my wife ever called me a gringo I'd put her ass on a plane to Colombia and she could stay there until she rotted.

Man Tequila says on Dec 3, 2007, 21:11:

Well, good to know you don't feel too strongly about the term.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

manINred says on Dec 3, 2007, 21:23:

Miamimike, well said!

john_stark, for that same reason my ex would never call me a gringo, not because i would ship her on a plane, but because realistically it is rude, for her, and for me.

carrasco says on Dec 3, 2007, 21:44:

to morphus every latin who cross to the states without papers by the line is called a wetback, y si das lata con eso en mexico al que van a madrear es a ti also people if u dont know the name printed in the constitucion for mexico is ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS, so

busca una mujer la cual digas la pude haber encontrado mas bella, pero no mejor.

la campiña says on Dec 3, 2007, 21:57:

good to know your not in colombia, pero live and let live

la campiña says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:01:

Every foreigner is a gringo in colombia, let it go such petty posts brush me up the wrong side, oops is this calling the kettle black

Tinto (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:03:

Use Wikipedia for "gringo" and you'll find a pretty good definition. Also, US military uniforms during the Mexican-American war era were blue, not green.

manINred says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:11:

La campina, that can't be the case, and the reason i found it offensive is because it can be used derogotarily in Medellin, and often is, so i was conditioned to find it offensive. well not offensive, moreso disrespectful. You don't say to someone you respect, o the gringo this... I think one thing is clear... different people have different ways that they use the word. I only speak about Medellin. No idea about Bogota, the coast i think they are more prone to use the term.

manINred says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:12:

maybe it is viewed as a compliment in some places in colombia

john_stark says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:16:

I told the story before but I'll tell it again. I went to Medellin to visit my wife before she got her visa and they came to pick me up at the airport. They being her sister, her sister's husband and their three kids along with my wife. We're in the car driving back to Medellin from Rionegro and one of the youngsters, Vanessa, who was about four at the time says loudly, "What's the gringo doing here?". Everyone kind of chuckled nervously and I turned back towards her from the front seat and said, "This gringo can understand what you're saying, Vanessa!".

Lisa Zee says on Dec 3, 2007, 22:22:

Perhaps it was your blond hair and dreaming blue eyes, and your being so tall with great physic?!. LOL

scotty says on Dec 3, 2007, 23:49:

yea, whats the gringo doing here? funny

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

SamGompers says on Dec 4, 2007, 05:51:

Gringo is also a popular term in Brazil - - where it's used (non-perjoratively) for "foreigner." (Maybe the brasilians imported it from the rest of latin america?)

I don't think gringo is an intrinsically derogatory term - - though like almost all words - - it can be used in a derogatory way depending on who is saying it, where they are saying it, to whom they are saying it, and why they are using it.

I always let my future novias know where I stand when they ask, "De donde eres?", my answer: "Soy gringo puro!"

JR says on Dec 4, 2007, 06:01:

My girlfriend called me Negrito Lindo; is that offensive? Cuz in America calling someone a Negro is not cool.

morphus says on Dec 4, 2007, 06:03:

If she really loved you, she would call you morenito lindo.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 4, 2007, 06:23:

My mother-in-law used to call her husband "mi negrito culipizarra", literally my litte blacboard-ass negro...they were not black either one, she was white and he was a shade tanner....term of endearment.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Gator says on Dec 4, 2007, 06:52:

"negrito(a)" is used though out Colombia and is NOT a derogatory or pejorative term

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 4, 2007, 07:04:

Gringo/gringuito is used pretty much in the same, casual manner. My kids are called "gringos" by their Caleño cousins! (it's just harmless teasing, they were botn in Cali and everybody knows that but they think that my kids speak Spanish "enredado" . No offense given, none taken.)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

la campiña says on Dec 4, 2007, 07:42:

I get called, amigo, gringo,paisa,campesino, mono, marica,ingles,dodgy uker, rse hole, twat,but if the tone of voice is pleasant I just knock them out, ha, ¿does it realy matter?, maybe, if think you bring on bad vibes with a bad attitude, I show the upmost respect to all and get the same back, more or less, ha

morphus says on Dec 4, 2007, 07:50:

I get mono a lot. They usually think I am Colombian.

manINred says on Dec 4, 2007, 08:00:

i thought you could only get mono once

la campiña says on Dec 4, 2007, 08:11:

ha, sharp

morphus says on Dec 4, 2007, 08:30:

Mono means whitey in Spanish.

la campiña says on Dec 4, 2007, 08:39:

can mean monkey, ha

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 4, 2007, 08:42:

When people are called "mono" or "mona" it does not mean monkey...just white. The word "mono" has many meanings, all separate, in Spanish...

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

gabolicious says on Dec 4, 2007, 09:41:

JR "negrito" is NOT offensive, in some of the latinamerican countries...

Even in Mexico if they use the words "pinche güero pendejo"... then you should feel offended... but if they tell you "güerito que mas?" o "mira a ese gringo"

TRANQUILOS QUE NO ES UNA OFENSA!!!!!

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

JR says on Dec 4, 2007, 09:53:

Whew! This is good news to hear. Thanks for everyone's input.

droble77 says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:14:

Amazing how people can get their panties in a bunch over one silly word. I think I felt a bit weird the first times I heard it used on me but you get used to it and if you think about it, it's really no big deal. I'd be more worried if they added "hijo 'e puta" in front of said word. :0) It doesn't even happen that often to me since I speak Spanish pretty fluently and I'm half-Hispanic myself.

Mononoke28 says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:17:

I've been called a lot of things here in the States because I'm latina and when I go back to Colombia my cousins call me "gringa" from time to time to make fun of me. So what? What's the big deal?

It's funny to me to see how people who have never been discriminated or rarely felt the hand of discrimination on them make a big deal about it. It's life, it happens, and there in nothing you can do about it but shrug it off.

Diana

Diana

gabolicious says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:21:

very well said mononoke.


I have some friends who were born in Mexico but are american citizens and everytime they come back (to mexico) we tell them "you are gringa" pero es solo por mamar gallo... sin ánimo de ofender...

=)

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

billyb says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:21:

Some people just need to feel offended by something at least once a day, it's just like their morning cup of coffee.

webmanco says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:34:

I tend to believe the word gringo has a derogatory connotation, but no worth getting all fuzzed up about it.

I do think so because in Colombia I heard the word used as in:

hagase el pendejo
hagase el gringo
hagase el bobo.
hagase el que no sabe (Naive)


then again, most of the time (95%) when people refer to foreigners as gringos they don´t do it in a offensive way, maybe they don´t know their name or don´t have any other easy way to refer to someone who is obviously different from locals.

It is a waste of time and energy to feel offended by being called gringo, or as a matter of fact any other name.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

gabolicious says on Dec 4, 2007, 10:38:

"hagase el gringo" never heard of that, good one LOL... but I think it refers to naivity of some foreigners when getting to a country for the first time...

"The new land of opportunities: Colombia!" ----- Mr Miguel_Clavo on PBH

manINred says on Dec 4, 2007, 15:08:

i know i know, was kidding of course

Lisa Zee says on Dec 4, 2007, 15:16:

I tell my son "no te me agas el gringo" very often. He is one, but not, he is my son. I mean to tell him not to pretend he does not know what I am talking about.

travelintom says on Dec 4, 2007, 16:15:

Gringo? How quaint. Nowdays you are a gabacho.

Que les vaya bien.

Rail says on Dec 6, 2007, 20:40:

I am fairly new here but this is the way I see it. I am white and American and I am proud of being both. Here in Alabama you get called white boy a lot. Again, I am very proud to be a white boy. At my age boy is a complement also. Gringo refers to me being white and from the U.S. so I am not offended. I actually refer to myself when talking to my fiancee about me and her country and people there as "Gringo". She told me she wanted a Gringo for a husband so see that is a good thing too. Gringo is a good word just like White Boy. hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

john_stark says on Dec 6, 2007, 20:43:

"She told me she wanted a Gringo for a husband so see that is a good thing too."

Well that must have made you feel special. If I thought my wife wanted a gringo for a husband, I'd put her ass on a plane to Colombia.

Rail says on Dec 6, 2007, 21:06:

If I hadnt known her better I would have felt the same. later after we met she said that she was more attracted to a white man because her father is light skinned and both her grandfathers were light with blue eyes. I guess I made it sound a lot worse. Huh? Sorry.

john_stark says on Dec 6, 2007, 21:07:

You made it sound as if she would have married the first gringo who came along.

Rail says on Dec 6, 2007, 21:14:

Yes, I see that now. lolol

manINred says on Dec 6, 2007, 21:39:

how do you know she didn't ;)

lpdiver says on Dec 6, 2007, 21:52:

From wiki..."There's another possible song that may be the root of the word...when the US Cavalry was marching to Mexico City during the war the soldiers would sing a song that had the lyrics "Horse-shit makes the green grass grow." The locals heard the song and warned the next town that the "gringos" where approaching."


"Goodbye, if you hear of my being stood up against a Mexican stone wall and shot to rags please know that I think that a pretty good way to depart this life. It beats old age, disease, or falling down the cellar stairs. To be a Gringo in Mexico – ah, that is euthanasia!" – Ambrose Bierce (last words of his final written communication, a letter to his niece, Lora, in December 1913.) "


"


t

"cook some rice!"

Rail says on Dec 7, 2007, 04:27:

hahhahahaha.....I dont know which story i like best.

msaucey says on Dec 7, 2007, 08:45:

94 posts... WOW....

I think we just need to put it to a vote....

Is it okay to be called a Gringo?

All Gringo's - Vote Yes

All North-American Caucassians or Anglo/Saxons - Vote No

We'll tally it up and see who wins...

=)

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

Man Tequila says on Dec 7, 2007, 12:08:

Most stories explaining the origins of words are crap. I'm with GIB on this one, it seems to come from griego. The word was used in Madrid to describe the Irish before the Mexican Civil War.

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/gringo.asp

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Adanimal says on Dec 7, 2007, 13:05:

So what about the the countries Niger and Nigeria in Africa? Does that make another certain word ok to use? Hmm I think not. The word has changed into something else. The origin is one thing. What it means to the individual or their people is another.

You don't know your there until your there!

Lisa Zee says on Dec 7, 2007, 13:36:

Gringos are only from USA. Franceses from France, Australiano form AU. Canadiense from Canada, Chino from China and so on.
Gringo is not offensive, unless you say "este Gringo" blah, blah. We have done this many times over. But go ahead and argue... lets have 300 rounds!

john_stark says on Dec 7, 2007, 17:24:

I'm Canadian and I'm gringo. You think they're making these distinctions? They're not.

Man Tequila says on Dec 7, 2007, 17:37:

This debate bores me.

If someone is thin-skinned (of whatever colour) to be offended over something like this, South America really is not the place for you.

Colombians have more serious problems to deal with than whether you might be offended by a commonplace word they use daily and without prejudice. Colombia is not a PC place. They use words like negrito a lot. You have a right to define what words mean to you and offend you. But who are you to impose values or dictate what words are or are not acceptable to an entire people?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

manINred says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:17:

I completely disagree Man Tequila.

I think one thing that has become clear in this debate is that 'gringo' has different connotations throughout the country. In ( certain areas of/social circles within) Medellin, for instance, if it is used derogatorily, as proof of my experiences living in the city, and as proof by this story:

"We're in the car driving back to Medellin from Rionegro and one of the youngsters, Vanessa, who was about four at the time says loudly, "What's the gringo doing here?". Everyone kind of chuckled nervously and I turned back towards her from the front seat and said, "This gringo can understand what you're saying, Vanessa!"

So should we, who are conditioned by Colombians to find it distasteful if not offensive, not go to Colombia (as you implied) just because we are annoyed when people call us 'gringo'? I think not. Does it mean we're thin-skinned? No. It just means we don't put up with people who will potentially treat us with disrespect. Why? No vale la pena. Especially when there are many other people who are worth the time and effort to associate with.

I also don't see what it has to do with being PC, nor what it has to do with the social problems that plague Colombia

Lisa Zee says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:27:

Canadians are "Canadienses" a montanero o the maid or pesents or and uneducated person would call anyone with an accent Gringo.

Lisa Zee says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:34:

We call a person from USA Gringos, it is easier than "Estadounidenses" You people should know. here in the USA everything is abbreviated and short.
If you find it offensive, change your nationality for fun and if the person has some education, they will call you, Candiense, Frances, Suizo, etc. and if they still call you Gringo then ignore them, because you`ll consider the source (like I said)

billyb says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:43:

I totally agree Lisa.

christobeldawg says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:47:

"you people"?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

Man Tequila says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:49:

Gringo, like many other words, can be used in a derogatory way, and this can include modifiers and indeed the tone in which a word is stated. It can certainly be a sign of disrespect. But I disagree that a four year old using the word "gringo" is trying to be pejorative. It can be a simple term of identification too.

You don't have to hang around people who disrespect you. I wouldn't. But you'll miss out on much of Colombia, and indeed South America, if you carry a chip on your shoulder or are looking to make mountains out of molehills.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

Lisa Zee says on Dec 7, 2007, 18:55:

Children repeat what they hear adults saying.

Chris... I did not want to say "us"."we"

christobeldawg says on Dec 7, 2007, 19:08:

I was just kiddin Lisa. Sometimes blacks in the US get offended when referred to as "you people."

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

slguy says on Dec 7, 2007, 19:29:

MT's right again.

If you're so thin-skinned that "gringo" bothers you, you're better off staying home.

There's a TON of Colombians that'll eat you up and spit you out, with that thin skin....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

nueva york bombero says on Dec 8, 2007, 07:45:

I spent some time in Veracruz, Mexico and the farm owner where I stayed had a unique name for me.
Gringo Cavron ----this was my name the entire time I spent there and it's not flattering. I thought it was funny and so did he!!!

mranderson says on Dec 8, 2007, 07:53:

I don't know if it's me but I honestly rarely hear the term gringo down here. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to what people are talking about when I'm walking by? I heard it a few times when I first moved here but now all I ever hear is mono. And that's only from vendors on the street trying to lure me into their shops or something like that. My friends and coworkers have never refered to me as gringo and niether has my wife from the day I met her. Although I don't know if they have ever used that term to refer to me when I wasn't around. Anyway, I don't really care too much for gringo but I don't get all upset about it either.

nueva york bombero says on Dec 8, 2007, 07:57:

In Mexico I heard it all the time, but not in Colombia or Chile. I take no offense to it at all.

john_stark says on Dec 8, 2007, 08:19:

Lisa Zee would have us believe that Colombians who can't speak English are making distinctions among Americans, Australians, Canadians, Brits and Kiwis. Sorry, lady, it's one size fits all. They're all gringos and they all get called gringo.

mranderson says on Dec 8, 2007, 09:12:

I understand completely if an american gets offended by the term gringo. I mean when it's used in the US by mexicans or in mexico it's usaully used in a derogatory way. That's the way most americans hear it. Term of endearment is a bit of a stretch. Usually just a way to identify foriegners here. The answer is simple, if it offends you then speak up. If not then embrace it. I don't get people who say you should stay home if it offends you.

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 09:54:

J/S You just like to be called Gringo!. But you are NOT!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 10:01:

Lisa and John....if you two cannot play nicely together look for somebody else to play with!

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 10:37:

I am sorry Desi, but he is always saying stupid things about Colombia and everyone. I am always sticking with people and going with the flow, I can even believe he is allowed to write in here!!!!!. If you check, he follows me every time I make a comment, I ignore him for months, but sometimes it is too much. New people don`t know he is just trying to start controversy.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 10:44:

Just ignore him., Lisa. Use the ignore-button so you won't need to read his comments. He'll stop following you around when he sees that he can't reach you.

Same thing John, stop following Lisa and if she get under your skin, use the ignore-function. That's what's it for. I don't know why we keep you here...I stopped being amused a long time ago. Perhaps because I'm such a bleeding heart and believe that you can still mend your trollish ways and start contributing something positive to this board.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 10:55:

I will, thanks ( I don`t know how, but I will look)

webmanco says on Dec 8, 2007, 10:58:

Asì empezaròn papà y mamà. :-) Par de gringos :-)

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

goin_south says on Dec 8, 2007, 11:18:

no fun,.....no fun.... Desi
let the music play on....

and, thank you.

john_stark says on Dec 8, 2007, 11:35:

I do contribute by pointing out how idiotic some of these comments are. Most Argentines are blonde and blue-eyed. Come on, what nonsense.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 11:48:

John, there are MANY argentines who are blond and blue-eyed. Not perhaps the most, but a fair number. But, as we all know, those are recessive genes, and soon there won't be any blonde, blue-eyed people left in the world, not even in Scandinavia. Read somewhere that the last böonde, blue-eyed person us going to be born in Finland (they have the most heterogeneous gene pool). Happy?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Colombiche says on Dec 8, 2007, 12:10:

Don't say that Desi, just when my eyes were starting to turn blue from speaking so much inglich.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Dec 8, 2007, 12:13:

I believe Argentina and Uruguay have a higher percentage of population with unmixed european heritage than any other country in the Americas, including Canada and the US.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 12:32:

Aren't you happy they were not starting to turn brown from speaking so much crap? (A JOKE I SWEAR!)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

gatogris says on Dec 8, 2007, 12:36:

Hey, if this site is about is about cultural mixing, than we should celebrate the browning of the world. Let's all get it on and go on down to browntown.

john_stark says on Dec 8, 2007, 15:25:

I'm all in favor of the browning of the world. Actually the world is mostly brown already. It's the browning of the Caucasian world.

From the CIA factbook on Argentina:

"white (mostly Spanish and Italian) 97%, mestizo (mixed white and Amerindian ancestry), Amerindian, or other non-white groups 3%"

Uruguay:

"white 88%, mestizo 8%, black 4%, Amerindian (practically nonexistent)"

I don't doubt that they have a lot of unmixed European heritage but as we all know they're mostly from Spain and Italy.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 15:39:

There are a lot of blonde, blue-eyed people in the north of both Spain ad Italy. Not as many as in Scandinavia, for example, but the coloring of the people of these countries varies too.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Colombiche says on Dec 8, 2007, 16:14:

"Aren't you happy they were not starting to turn brown from speaking so much crap? (A JOKE I SWEAR!)"

Then 80% of the people on PBH would be walking around with caca eyes by now.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

kat1 (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 16:19:

I am blond blue eyes really

engage brain before opening mouth

Colombiche says on Dec 8, 2007, 16:20:

A mi ya me han salido varios mechones monos.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

kat1 (Moderator) says on Dec 8, 2007, 16:27:

really colombiche? uh,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm that mean you are gringa

engage brain before opening mouth

Colombiche says on Dec 8, 2007, 16:52:

guachu guachu guachu guachu.... uf, si ya estoy mona, oji azul y hablando enredajos.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:29:

lol.... dang, I thought this horse was dead.... Oh well.....

It's funny, my partner is in the midst of reading a book on how Alaska was overrun by the Russians and the atrocities that came along from the conquering of that vast region of the world... and how of course there was a mix in bloods and what not.... anyway, it was talking about how people were discriminated if they were darker and so forth, and I check PBH... and here we are... still talking about this stuff.... Crazy...

All, I have to say... There is a very small minority of pure blood.... And I agree with Desi, if there is still going to be a "TRUE" gringo population then it's going to be coming from her part of the world.... because the rest of the world is mixed, one way or another....

The American "Gringo" or North-American Caucassian/Anglo-Saxon is extremely mixed.... Check your lineage....

Anyway, I don't really know what my point is... I think I'm just rambling...

LOL....

COCKTAIL!

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

goin_south says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:40:

really; WGAF?
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.jejjii..
kiddin, saucey...
you make the point right.
So! I'm not a gringo after all! jajj
probably a lil mongolian, irish, amerindian...allemania'
Hell! I'm a mongiramanian!

and, thank you.

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:45:

lol... GS... you got it....

You should start telling people not to call you a gringo or a estadounidense but better... a mongiramanian.... and then they're going to be like a WTF?

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

billyb says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:47:

Lisa, everybody I know in Colombia, all being well educated, besides me that is, also differentiate when refering to canadians, italians, germans etc.. and only use gringo for estadounidenses and not derrogatorily either, but i guess some of the foreigners on here only have experience with the less educated and cultured colombians when they visit and thus have the POV that they do.

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:52:

I have a Korean friend that was born and raised in Colombia.... They always called her china, by those that didn't know her, but she was NOT offended.. So... I really don't know what I'm trying to point out..

Oh yeah, she's a bigger person and doesn't worry about this type of stuff, she knows who she is...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

goin_south says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:55:

born and raised in colombia?
never mind.... jajaa!

That's my problem... I'm 87 and still don't know WTF I am.

and, thank you.

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:58:

Patito, we already figured it out, remember... mongiramanian.... =)

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

goin_south says on Dec 8, 2007, 17:59:

but, am I listed in Wikipedia???

and, thank you.

Man Tequila says on Dec 8, 2007, 18:01:

I have caca eyes, but would thank you not to point that out.

If someone calls you gringo and this is making you misty eyed, simply defuse the tense situation by diplomatically saying "stay on your side of the goddamn river." (JOKE, pinche gringo punetero)

If you ask the Argentines about their heritage, 97% will claim a pure European bloodline and 3% will trace their lineage back to Mount Olympus. (also a joke, but not very funny).

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

manINred says on Dec 8, 2007, 18:19:

"But you'll miss out on much of Colombia, and indeed South America, if you carry a chip on your shoulder or are looking to make mountains out of molehills."

I agree with that completely! That's why in most of Colombia I wouldn't care to be called a gringo, and don't bother explaining that I'm actually not american ;) however if i get the impression that it is known to be derogatory by the person using it, i wouldn't put up with it.

I once said something to my ex about being a gringo... she said "que feo, don't say that, you're British and Canadian!" to which I didn't argue.

manINred says on Dec 8, 2007, 18:25:

and i don't thnk she had anything against americans

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 18:37:

maybe, it's because Americans, gringos or not, tend to be rude.... That's what I take your girlfriends conetation to be....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

billyb says on Dec 8, 2007, 18:49:

"maybe, it's because Americans, gringos or not, tend to be rude.... :

That's a silly comment. As colombians, we (at least I) don't like foreigners to make assumptions that we are all drug dealers, why would you make such a generalization about others?

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:00:

billy, I'm really not, but I'm just giving you the perspective of some foreigners... .I've heard the term rude american a lot abroad... not here in the states.... we're perfect in the states, but the assumption abroad is that americans tend to be rude, because they want things right a way and SOME get upset when they don't... americans tend to be a little bit more uptight with customer service, where a lot of other countries don't....

It may be a silly comment, and it may not be 100% accurate, but it's one of the many stigma's that there is in life...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

john_stark says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:08:

Colombians make as many generalizations as anyone. It's human nature.

You must be right about associating with only lower class Colombians, Billyb. All 7 of my wife's brothers and sisters have college degrees but none of them have graduate degrees. I guess they're just slackers.

la campiña says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:10:

gringo ! no it's not, al contrario it's a sign of affection

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:11:

It works, it works!!!!!! Thanks Desi!!!!!

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:13:

I see , now I won`t know what is going on. Maybe it is better.

msaucey says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:15:

Lisa, I'll copy the good, juicey stuff for you and leave it in your avatar....

lol... j/k

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

billyb says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:20:

JS, I was just generalizing, seems to be the order of the day on this thread, nothing in particular aimed at you, but sorry to see I hit a nerve :)

john_stark says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:25:

Hell I'll be the first to admit that they must be low life Colombians. In fact I don't know how they graduated from college at all since they're such scum. Geez, one is an artist and art teacher in the public schools but we're talking Colombian culture so I guess the standards are mighty low.

billyb says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:35:

Now that you bring it up, half of Colombia has an "administracion de empressa" degree so it's not saying much, but like I said, it wasn't aimed at your peeps in particular so don't get too defensive :))

christobeldawg says on Dec 8, 2007, 19:39:

they all have degrees but nobody ever has any phone minutes. anybody noticed that? I ask to make a quick call, and they always say they have no minutes. jaja

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

Lisa Zee says on Dec 8, 2007, 20:25:

I am blind!!!! LOL Now this is weird! I don`t know what you are talking about, can I reverse the button!!!??? jajajajaja.

christobeldawg says on Dec 8, 2007, 20:28:

sorry, I was just noticing that they sell cell phone minutes on every single corner in Colombia, and yet noone I talk with ever has any cell phone minutes on their phone. sorry, I know I took it way off thread there. too much Seinfeld?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

billyb says on Dec 8, 2007, 21:29:

Lisa, remember, curiosity killed the cat, Also, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. This will conclude our Confusius (sp) minute

christobeldawg says on Dec 8, 2007, 21:44:

poor dear Lisa, she doesn't know late nite PBH with CDawg and BillyB.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too