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The U.S. Election and Latin America

http://www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/app/article.aspx?id=2790

Monday, October 6 2008 Updated at 08:00 AM.

Monday, October 06, 2008
The U.S. Election and Latin America

DIFFERENT APPROACHES: Senators Barack Obama and John McCain seem to approach Latin America differently, especially on the issue of trade, the author points out. (Illustration: The American)

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A President Obama or a President McCain will have to address trade, immigration, Hugo Chávez, and more.
BY JAIME DAREMBLUM

During [the recent] presidential debate, which concentrated largely on foreign policy, the two candidates hardly mentioned Latin America. We heard nothing about the free trade agreements with Colombia and Panama, nothing about Mexico’s increasingly violent war on drugs, nothing about boosting economic cooperation with Brazil and other regional powers, and nothing about promoting a democratic transition in Cuba. Barack Obama cited Venezuela as one of the oil-rich “rogue states” that pose a challenge to U.S. energy policy, and John McCain blasted the Democratic candidate for his earlier promises to meet with the leaders of Venezuela and Cuba “without preconditions” during his first year in office. Other than that, Latin America was almost completely absent from the conversation.

NO SURPRISE

This was not terribly surprising. Given the panoply of challenges that the next U.S. president will face—in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, Russia, China, and elsewhere—it is understandable that Latin America has received only minimal attention on the campaign trail. Barring a regional crisis, the Western Hemisphere will not be a top-tier priority for the next administration, regardless of who wins the election. The 9/11 terrorist attacks pushed Latin America to the background of U.S. foreign policy discussions, and even the noisy, belligerent rise of Hugo Chávez has not changed that. Latin American officials must realize that neither a President Obama nor a President McCain will alter the fundamental orientation of U.S. foreign policy, which is focused mainly on the Middle East and Asia.

Of course, Latin America won’t be ignored completely. Obama and McCain seem to approach the region differently, especially on the issue of trade. McCain has been a staunch free trader throughout his career on Capitol Hill, and he favors the bilateral trade pacts with Colombia and Panama, both of which are awaiting congressional approval. In early July, McCain visited Cartagena to demonstrate his support for Colombian President Álvaro Uribe and urge passage of the trade accord. Obama opposes the Colombia and Panama deals (as do most congressional Democrats), and has even suggested that he might try to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Congress approved way back in 1993.

Although McCain is a free trader, his election would not necessarily lead to a burst of trade liberalization in the Western Hemisphere. The Democratic Congress has shown itself to be very protectionist, and it has stymied President Bush’s trade agenda for two years now. Assuming that Democrats maintain their control of Congress—which seems virtually guaranteed—a President McCain would face stiff opposition on trade expansion. The Colombia and Panama agreements might remain in limbo. Obama, meanwhile, has criticized free trade on the campaign trail and in the Senate—he voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement in 2005—and we have no way of knowing whether he would change his tune if elected.

HOPEFUL

Trade policy aside, many people in Latin America seem hopeful that a President Obama would boost economic assistance to the region. The Illinois senator has pledged that his administration would “substantially increase our aid to the Americas.” However, given the financial bailout package and Obama’s plans to spend more on healthcare, education, and energy, it is unlikely that Latin America would see a major increase in U.S. aid. Congress has more pressing spending concerns.

What about immigration? In the past, both McCain and Obama have favored comprehensive immigration reform. In July, Obama told the League of United Latin American Citizens that it would be “a top priority in my first year as president.” But immigration is a highly controversial issue among members of both parties. If a President McCain or a President Obama pushed for comprehensive immigration reform early in his tenure, he would be taking a big political risk.

On Venezuela, McCain has hammered Obama for vowing to meet with Chávez without preconditions. That was indeed a reckless comment, and Obama has paid for it. But it’s unclear whether either candidate could do much to sway Venezuelan foreign policy. Until oil prices drop significantly—which probably won’t happen anytime soon—Chávez will be swimming in petrodollars, which will allow him to continue funding his ideological comrades around the region.

RUSSIA AND IRAN

The Venezuelan president has also cultivated warm relations with Russia and Iran. As The New York Times reports, Russian and Venezuelan officials recently agreed to establish “a Russian-Venezuelan energy consortium that would share resources to produce and sell oil and gas. Russian companies are already at work exploring oil fields in Venezuela, but the agreement will allow them to expand their reach into more areas, including fields in Ecuador and Bolivia.” Moscow and Caracas may also begin collaborating on nuclear energy.

As for Iran, there is evidence tying Chávez to the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah. In June, U.S. Treasury Department official Adam J. Szubin charged the Venezuelan government with “employing and providing safe harbor to Hezbollah facilitators and fundraisers.” This came just months after the latest exposure of Chávez’s links to the FARC terrorists in Colombia.

The good news is that Chávez does not represent the broader Latin American left. Over the past few years, a series of more responsible, pragmatic center-left leaders have taken office in Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, and Peru. Meanwhile, center-right reformers have been elected in Colombia and Mexico. Thanks to the efforts of presidents like Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (Brazil), Tabaré Vázquez (Uruguay), Michelle Bachelet (Chile), Alan García (Peru), Álvaro Uribe (Colombia), and Felipe Calderón (Mexico), the region as a whole has been doing fairly well.

Indeed, the vast majority of Latin American countries have been able to build more resilient economies, diminish poverty, and consolidate democracy. Assuming the financial turmoil does not trigger a deep global recession, most of Latin America looks poised to continue on a relatively stable path of economic development and democratic maturation. The United States can and should play a significant role in supporting that process, even if, unfortunately, its chief foreign policy priorities lie elsewhere.

Jaime Daremblum, Costa Rica’s former ambassador to the United States, is director of the Center for Latin American Studies at the Hudson Institute. The article originally appeared in the online version of The American magazine (www.american.com).

By mariacvetanoski on Oct 6, 2008, 06:09 in Politics & the war.

mariacvetanoski says on Oct 6, 2008, 06:10:

During [the recent] presidential debate, which concentrated largely on foreign policy, the two candidates hardly mentioned Latin America. We heard nothing about the free trade agreements with Colombia and Panama, nothing about Mexico’s increasingly violent war on drugs, nothing about boosting economic cooperation with Brazil and other regional powers

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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chingon says on Oct 6, 2008, 06:31:

And?

Regardless if you agree with US foreign policy or not, the US has a lot more issues to deal with than Latin America at this point unfortunately.

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mariacvetanoski says on Oct 6, 2008, 07:09:

TRUE!

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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mariacvetanoski says on Oct 6, 2008, 08:50:

29 MORE DAYS TILL THE ELECTION IN THE USA!!!

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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chingon says on Oct 6, 2008, 08:55:

Is there any way they both can lose?

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Bill Turley (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 6, 2008, 09:08:

Yeah then we could elect PALEN

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:04:

Yeah then we could elect PALEN

============================
Now that would be a Diasaster! LOL

FYI, as part of the $700 Billion Bailout "Pork" Add-ons last week, Trade Preferences for Colombia were extended for ONE Year so Colombia pays no import taxes on most products it sends to the US. Conversely, our US Companies continue to pay hefty Import Tariffs on products sent into Colombia(as per the wording put into the Andean Trade Pact signed in 1991 in the waning days of the Bush One Administration).

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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sanandressi says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:21:

Uribe met with Sarah Palin in New York a few weeks ago and McCain has been to Colombia. McCain was born in Panama. Not sure if he grew up there though.

Obama and Democrats do not want free trade with Colombia and could cut Plan Colombia aid. McCain will continue Plan Colombia. Chavez, Correa, and Raul Reyes had email interchanges found on the laptops of reyes saying that "Obama was one of them". John Kerry also made comments showing sympathy towards the FARC in 2004.

A vote for a Barack Huuseein Obama is a vote against Colombia if you agree with what Alvaro Uribe has done and he has done enough to have a 75 percent approval rating of Colombia's people.

If Uribe prefers McCain then so do I among other reasons! If you like Obama then vote for him but I cannot!

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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mariacvetanoski says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:23:

well said! agree 100%!!!!!

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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Mononoke28 says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:36:

I'm probably going to get crucified for this but I really don't care about any plans that the new administration will have in regards to foreign policy with Latin America or any other country. I think the best thing to do for now is to focus on our internal problems, fix the economy, help the unemployed, come up with a good health plan, education, etc. Once it starts getting better the rest of the world will follow. But for now, I really don't care what Obama or McCain have to say in regards to the TLC in Colombia.

Diana

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:53:

Mononoke--Well said! And as I deal only in hard FACT, You won't get crucified by me! We have our own problems in the USA and the reason we have some of these problems is that this administration has ignored them and instead have gotten us bogged down into a winless war in Iraq that's bleeding the US taxpayer of $2-$3 BILLION Dollars weekly and we are borrowing this money to boot from the Chinese. In reference to your comment on Healthcare, let me add, since the Spring of 2001, we now have approx 50 million uninsured Americans, when "W" took office(spring 2001), this number was around 42,000,000.Approx 8 Milliom more uninsured,,,Nice Job eh?

For those above posters--It was a Democrat, Bill Clinton, who signed Plan Colombia into Law. And as a Result, Billions of $$$USD followed helping improve Colombia's Security to the point is at today. Obama/Biden wants Free Trade with Colombia but (as its been said here on pbh a 100 times, it(Obama/Hillary/Biden/Pelosi) wants Uribe to conduct an indepth investigation into the Deaths of the manyColombian News Reporters and Trde Unionists. To date, that has not occurred so no FTA. The day may soon come when Uribe mistakingly discovers he should have opened talks with Obama/Biden when he in NYC recently instead of McCain/Palin,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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sanandressi says on Oct 6, 2008, 11:56:

Yes, Monoke28, but Free Trade is about improving the US economy or what ails it. The one thing I like about Obama is how he talks about keeping jobs in the US but how will he do that? I mean, if I want to shut my plant and send it to China who can stop me?

I belong to a service UNION in Colorado. I fully believe in the right to organize and strike. However, so many of my fellow union members worry for their own jobs but cannot take it upon themselves to buy a UNION made automobile of GM, Chrsyler or Ford thereby supporting fellow US workers. McCain on the other hand mentioned building 45 new nuclear plants employing 700,000 americans while Obama will not mention the word nuclear cause he does not want them! It is their money, my fellow union member's, they can buy what they want but see my point?

Obama and the union leaders are concerned about labor leaders in Colombia and why are they not worried about we workers in the US who pay their salaries with our dues? Obama also said he would sit down with Chavez "no pre-conditions". Is that good for Colombia and Uribe's efforts?

A Colombian guy I work with supports Obama but his wife has a brother who is a Serpista POLITICAN.

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 12:03:

Sanadressi--where were you when the Unfair(to us labor and companies) Andean Trade pact was signed by Bush One in 1991 granting all these advantages to Colombia(export duty free to the USA) while US Companies like Caterpillar were strapped with huge Import Tariffs when they shipped their products into Colombia? Where was the outrage??? Is this fair?? I want a Prez in office who STOPS unfair Trade Advantages like this,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 12:07:

Wall Street Dives 600 Points !! Do we have Problems in the US that need to be addressed now instead of leveling, what may or may not be contrived charges against an opponent that happened 40 years ago??? YES WE DO! We need these parties to direct their Talk towards what they will do to rectify this CURRENT problem.

NEW YORK -- Financial markets took a bleak view of the future Monday, seeing contagion in a credit crisis that threatens to cascade through economies globally despite government efforts to provide relief. The Dow Jones industrials skidded around 600 points and fell below 10,000 for the first time in four years, while the credit markets remained under strain.

Investors around the world have come to the sobering realization that the Bush administration's $700 billion rescue plan won't work quickly to unfreeze the credit markets. Global banks, hobbled by wrong-way bets on mortgage securities, remain starved for cash as credit has dried up.

That has sent stocks spiraling downward in the U.S., Europe and Asia, and driven investors to sink money into the relative safety of U.S. government debt. Fears about a global recession also caused oil to drop below $90 a barrel.

"The fact is people are scared and the only thing they're doing is selling," said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer's Investment Research. "Investors are cleaning out portfolios and getting rid of everything because nothing seems to be working."

The selling was so extreme that only 98 stocks rose on the NYSE - and 3,114 dropped. That's a telling sign considering the stock market is considered a leading economic indicator, with investors tending to buy and sell based on where they believe the economy will be in six to nine months.

Monday's steep decline on Wall Street indicates that investors are becoming more convinced that the country is leading a prolonged economic crisis that is spreading to other nations. Over the weekend, governments across Europe rushed to prop up failing banks, while the governments of Germany, Ireland and Greece also said they would guarantee bank deposits.

As the U.S. tries to repair its battered banking system, the German government and financial industry agreed on a $68 billion bailout for commercial-property lender Hypo Real Estate Holding AG. And France's BNP Paribas agreed to acquire a 75 percent stake in Fortis's Belgium bank after a government rescue failed.

The Fed also took fresh steps to help ease credit markets. The central bank said Monday it will begin paying interest on commercial banks' reserves and will expand its loan program to squeezed banks.

Joseph V. Battipaglia, chief investment officer at Ryan Beck & Co., said government intervention certainly might help. However, he believes investors are sensing that what's happening in the economy is a shift in the extent to which consumers and businesses take on debt, a change that will take years to play out.

"This is a global deleveraging of many economies," he said. "It might appear that you're going into the abyss where the economy grinds to a halt and the financial system goes into complete disarray. But, what the market is really reading here is that this is a global phenomenon, and when you delever like this, it is a process that takes a very long period of time measured in years, not quarters."

That, he said, is being reflected in major stock indexes being repriced significantly lower. In early afternoon trading, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 593.61, or 5.75 percent, to 9,731.77, dropping below 10,000 for the first time since Oct. 29, 2004. At one point, the Dow was down more than 600.

Broader indexes also tumbled. The Standard & Poor's 500 index shed 70.28, or 6.39 percent, to 1,028.95; and the Nasdaq composite index fell 137.38, or 7.05 percent, to 1,810.01. The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies dropped 41.45, or 6.69 percent, to 577.95.

In Asia, the Nikkei 225 closed 4.25 percent lower. Europe's stock markets also declined, with the FTSE-100 down 5.20 percent, Germany's DAX down 7.07 percent, and France's CAC-40 down 9.04 percent.

The anxiety was again obvious in the credit markets. The yield on the three-month Treasury bill slipped to 0.42 percent from 0.50 percent late Friday. Demand for bills remains high because of their safety; investors are willing to take extremely low returns just to have their money in a secure place.

Investors also moved into longer-term Treasury bonds. The yield on the 10-year note fell to 3.49 percent from 3.60 percent late Friday.

Anthony Sabino, a professor of law and business at St. John's University, said the "market is displaying one of its worst traits with a herd mentality, and investors have an appetite for feeding on fear." He cautions that, while there are deep economic and financial problems being faced, it is still not a nightmare scenario.

"Most certainly, this is not the Great Depression of the 1930s, but (is like) the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s - and we bailed them out," he said. "Once people catch their breath, they'll see this is the proper analogy and this will breathe life back into banking institutions."

Banks' hesitation to lend to one another and to many businesses and individuals is the result of the bad mortgage debt that the financial rescue is supposed to sweep up. But it's still unclear how quickly financial institutions will be able to hand that debt to the U.S. government and convince the markets they are healthy again.

There has been some hope that perhaps the Fed, in concert with other central banks, might cut interest rates to help stimulate the economy. With oil prices well off their midsummer highs and indicators pointing to a slower economy, the Fed's worries about inflation are less than they had been, making it easier to justify a rate cut.

Investors might get some indication about a potential rate cut with several policymakers slated to speak this week. Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher and Chicago Fed President Charles Evans will speak on the U.S. economy on Monday. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke is due to speak on Tuesday.

Frederick Dickson, chief market strategist at D.A. Davidson & Co., believes investors are eager for any signs about the well-being of the economy. He doesn't believe that will happen until Wall Street overhauls its expectations for growth of corporate earnings and the overall economy.

"Wall Street at this point is shifting its attention from whether Congress was going to act on the emergency stabilization bill to the realization that the economy is slowing significantly faster than most analysts had expected," he said. "The downturn has shifted from first gear to about third gear in about""

BTW-I have two Colombian Families on my Condo Floor, Neighbors of mine--Both are lined up 100% behind Obama! And since they are US Citizens, they will be Voting Nov 4,,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Mononoke28 says on Oct 6, 2008, 13:55:

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Colombia to get a fair deal out of this but for now, I'm not even thinking about it. I just can't. I live in the US and have been for most of my life and I need to make sure that this country is doing well here before it goes out and spends more money on something that will benefit other countries. And besides, Colombia is not dying because the TLC hasn't been approved. It'll get approved and once it does, people will be very happy, including me. But not until the US gets back on its feet.

Diana

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sanandressi says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:06:

Hey MiamiMike I have posted here in PBH about the same Colombian flowers that killed Colorado's and California's rose production due to the Andean Pact. I lived in Los Angeles in 1993 when DEMOCRAT Bill Clinton signed NAFTA after the unions, who had given Bill mucho dinero, asked him not to do so.

The DEMOCRAT Party is no longer a labor party and this is why I left the Democrat Party. Actually, they left me. Obama is NO FDR! If he was, he would be proposing nuclear power plants in addition to the 104 we have. McCain has done so. We could use US built Caterpillars to help build these.

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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Mononoke28 says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:08:

Obama is no FDR, that's for sure. But McCain is another Bush. I'd rather have the former.

Diana

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sanandressi says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:11:

Miamimike, the DEMOCRAT party wants every factory shut down in this country that emits any form of pollution and that puts UNION workers on "Main street" as Obama says.

The union bosses still supporrt Democrats cause they have been doing it for so long they don't know how to maybe stay neutral or they are just plain ignorant.

A vote for Obama puts Colombian security at risk!

"This train will stop in Tucumcari"

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:29:

Mononoke28 says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:08 (today): flag

Obama is no FDR, that's for sure. But McCain is another Bush. I'd rather have the former.
==================================================================

LOL. How true!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:45:

sanandressi says on Oct 6, 2008, 14:11 (today): flag

Miamimike, the DEMOCRAT party wants every factory shut down in this country that emits any form of pollution and that puts UNION workers on "Main street" as Obama says.

The union bosses still supporrt Democrats cause they have been doing it for so long they don't know how to maybe stay neutral or they are just plain ignorant.

A vote for Obama puts Colombian security at risk!

****How So? Did Obama/Biden say anyplace they would stop sending Arms, Planes, Helicopters, Military advice to Colombia? Did Obama say he would curtail Monies in Plan Colombia? If so, please show me a Link,,,

Could you please post some Links to substaniate your Claims?.I will acccept Opinions but not opinions only as the truth/fact.
============
What I took you task on was your claim(that you have made that claim many times here on this website) where you said "Obama & the Democrats don't want Trade with Colombia" Could you post a link(s) showing where either stated exactly that? Sounds like your personal opinion to me...

=================================================================

The one thing I like about Obama is how he talks about keeping jobs in the US but how will he do that? I mean, if I want to shut my plant and send it to China who can stop me?

Now on this Issue, if you go and check out indepth how Obama would do this, you would see he has a Plank in his platform that wouldn't Reward US Plants that leave the USA, Setup Plants in China, Korea ect and then by Incorporating in these Island tax Havens like the Grand Caymans, Turks&Caicos, bank their Profits and pay NO us Tax. Go and check it out, its not a Secret what he would do.

When Clinton signed Plan Colombia,were you outraged?

When Bush One Signed the Andean Trade pact in 1991 were you Outraged, did you question why US companies had to pay a huge import tax as part of this Trade Accord when they imported their products into Colombia while, OTH, Colombia was allowed to import their products into the US Duty free for the most part? And this inequity has gone on for close to 17 years BTW. Equal Trade, I don't think so,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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rocinante says on Oct 6, 2008, 15:34:

So you kids still think the US president runs the US? He he he....

"A vote for a Barack Huuseein Obama is a vote against Colombia"[TLC] - Sanandressi -

Bold statement broham.

Can you explain to me please just how the TLC helps Colombia? Can you even include comment on the Andean Pact?

And while you are at it can you explain how McCain will get TLC passed with a Dem House/Senate and the current admin has been trying to pass this for 3 years and has not even come close?

But first you have to understand it. TLC helps the US. TLC is bad for the Colombian people but good for the Colombian elite.

Colombia is the biggest and closest US ally in South America. Plan Colombia will NOT get cut unless something is in gross violation of the Leahy provision. It's not really that much money per year anyway.

Just because one candidate wants something doesn't mean it's going to be gotten. How many years of an anti abortion presidents have there been since Rowe vs Wade almost 40 years ago - including the pro lifer in office at the time of the Supreme court ruling? 20? 25?

Bottom line is you can't come on here telling everyone that Colombia is going down the toilet if one votes for Obama. That is your own personal agenda that you will surely argue about something else and avoid how the TLC helps Colombia, I'm sure.

This is about Colombia and the TLC and your quoted statement. Please expand on that. I don't give a crap about what the candidates had for breakfast.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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Simon says on Oct 6, 2008, 15:52:

"our US Companies continue to pay hefty Import Tariffs on products sent into Colombia"

GOOD!! I hope they tax the shit out of them!!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 16:34:

Simon, I suppose you would be happy if those US companies, Caterpillar, IBM, Compaq ect for instance, went Belly up then Colombia would receive "0" in import taxes AND best of all, there would be less of the dwindling US Workers(read taxpayers) to fund the Monies doled out in Plan Colombia. Would that make you happy? And ultimately it would be another group of potential American Tourists that wouldn't have the money to travel to Colombia bringing with them their tourist Dollars. Again, would this make you happy? Careful of what you wish for goes the old saying,,,

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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rocinante says on Oct 6, 2008, 19:22:

Seriously CAT, IBM and HPQ are going belly up because of the high taxes applied to the Colombian market?

The Andean pact has been around for almost 20 years. Now suddenly it's causing fortune 100 companies to be teetering on the brink of collapse?

"That's interesting. I hadn't heard that."

I hope you are being hypothetical Mike. Please realize that this is a Colombian forum and Colombia has the home field advantage here.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 20:26:

I didn't say they(IBM, CAT ect) are going belly up, I was using them as unfairly taxed examples for Simon in the Andean trade pact. . , which you correctly identified as hypothetical examples.And yes, I still don't think the Andean Trade pact was/is fair, its a lopsided affair tilted not in our favor even halfway. . I appreciate this being a Colombian Website but when you have a poster such as Simon who never gives the USA and its taxpayers one bit of Credit for the much improved security in Colombia due to Plan Colombia(which was/is subsidized by us taxpayers). The only thing you hear from Simon is Criticism about America and the Americans visisting Colombia, who drop their Tourist dollars into the Col economy. As I say, maybe Simon would be happy if the "Gringos" cancelled their trips. And their Billions in Aid,,,Careful what you wish for ,,,,The Only person I saw who as critical of America was that long departed Crackpot Poster who went by the handle Colombiano-X or some handle similiar to that. Man, was he a Nutcase,,,LOL

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Simon says on Oct 6, 2008, 20:31:

Miamimike, I do appreciate the change Plan Colombia has helped to bring about to Colombia. But I do not think it is just plain charity out of the good hearts of US altruism like you would have us believe!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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rocinante says on Oct 6, 2008, 20:34:

Mike every nickel spent by the US for plan Colombia comes back to the US dressed up as a dollar.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 20:35:

I think since we brough it up, you probably felt like after the fact you had to make a comment.I sincerely doubt you would have said anything positive otherwise,,,.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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rocinante says on Oct 6, 2008, 20:53:

Mike I'm not really sure who 'We', and 'You' are but I'll let you and Simon alone to your debate.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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miamimike says on Oct 6, 2008, 21:42:

Mike every nickel spent by the US for plan Colombia comes back to the US dressed up as a dollar.

===================================================================

That point was never in dispute! What is in Dispute is the fact that some people like Simon fail to realize the Goodwill and sacrifice the US taxpayers are making in this troubled economical era to continue helping Colombia. We are borrowing from China, mortaging our own financial future, to help out Colombia yet some really don't appreciate it. The Day may come when we no longer send this money to Colombia. I will cite the Philippine Islands as an example as I worked there ' for 4 years in the Merchant Marine. We were based out of Subic and followed the 6th Naval fleet with our Supply Vessels around the world. Outside the main entrance to Subic Bay lies the famed Olongopo City, once one of the most famous Liberty Ports in the world. It was Mecca for Sailors with all its Bars and Exotic women and the Sailors dropped BIG BUCKS Nightly in Olongopo, once the Sin city of the Far East. Some locals and Filipino Politicos started grumbling Uncle Sam wasn't paying enough rent for the Subic Naval base and harbor and soon it became a steady drumbeat. In time, the USA determined Subic wasn't worth the price and NOT only pulled out of Subic, but also out of the Clark Air Force base as well. Result--the US leaving decimated the towns outside the Subic Naval base, Olongopo City in particular. They(locals) said the USA would never leave after 40 years but that is just what happened. AND we had MUCH Stronger ties with the Filipnos then we have ever had with Colombia. Filipino Soldiers fought and died along side US Soldiers in WW2. Yet we left,,,careful what you wish for,,,Nothing last forever,,,Not even Plan Colombia

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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mariacvetanoski says on Oct 7, 2008, 07:19:

agree with you on that one MIKE! Be greatful for everything you get no matter how small!!

Save the street children of Colombia Now!!

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rocinante says on Oct 7, 2008, 08:05:

If plan Colombia goes so what? Practically two thirds of the money goes back to the US defense contractors and to protect the pipelines. Yes the money is nice but the average person on the street will only be affected by budget reshuffle if the plan gets cut. The military will need more funding. From where? I don't know but as long as Venezuela is next door and as long as Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina and soon Bolivia are out of the IMF, the US will continue Plan Colombia, regardless of the US economy. 820 million a year is nothing for the US. Israel gets a few billion year, Afghanistan gets over a billion and those are not going anywhere either.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

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Simon says on Oct 7, 2008, 18:53:

"I think since we brough it up, you probably felt like after the fact you had to make a comment.I sincerely doubt you would have said anything positive otherwise,,,."

Are you saying I'm being disingenuous? How dare you!

"DON'T FOK WITH COLOMBIA!!"-----Simon

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Dolfi says on Oct 9, 2008, 06:28:

Agood article in "El País" from Madrid:

Las elecciones de noviembre se dirimen, paralelamente, entre un veteranísimo McCain, muy próximo a Bush, aunque afirme todo lo contrario, en sus votos del Senado; en su patriotismo de charanga y pandereta, pero con muertos de verdad en innecesarias guerras; en su estrecha visión de un mundo en el que aún se obstina en tener a Rusia como enemigo, aunque haya muerto el comunismo; y un joven demócrata, el afro descendiente Barack Obama que ha logrado pergeñar una imagen de sí mismo pro activa -y no reactiva como la del republicano- aunque es verdad que un punto snob, cuya pretensión, muy diferentemente, es dialogar con el planeta, en lugar de ponerlo firme.

Obama debería poseer alguna capacidad de interlocución con esa América Latina que se adiestra en ignorar a Estados Unidos; mientras que McCain apuntaría a Némesis de ese nuevo íbero-continente. Y, sin embargo, es McCain y no Obama quien mejor conviene a todos los que celebran que en el mundo mengüe la sombra de Washington, porque el demócrata trataría de tender puentes, y aunque la suya no fuera una actitud radicalmente innovadora, si no Chávez, que ya está cincelado en la estrepitosa oposición a la Casa Blanca, no todos los que hoy hacen la corte al líder bolivariano desdeñarían una aproximación a la antigua gran potencia americana. Así, el primer presidente negro de Estados Unidos tendría la oportunidad de desinflar de ruido y furia el chavismo; y la diplomacia brasileña debería pensar en replegarse a posiciones menos llamativas. Y es, contrariamente, la impetuosidad irreflexiva del republicano la que le lleva a contestar lo primero que le pasa por la cabeza, elección de Palin incluida, la que conviene al bloque del chavismo, tanto como al designio de gran potencia en ciernes de Brasilia. Bush II ha contribuido decisivamente a poner a su país en riesgo de perder América Latina, como dicen que los demócratas perdieron China en 1949. Y John McCain sería hoy el candidato perfecto para completar su obra."

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/EE/UU/lejos/Latinoamerica...

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corporalgator (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 10, 2008, 13:12:

When was this article written? It says that oil prices aren't likely to drop any time soon but they are at $80 a barrel and falling, $60 below the peak of just a few months ago. Chavez and Russia are both being hurt by that severely.

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Dolfi says on Oct 13, 2008, 01:28:

October 8th.

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