The thing about Americans is that....

Rico says on Aug 25, 2004, 16:35:

Chip on the shoulder When it comes to the USA, a lot of people around the world carry a chip on their shoulders. Sometimes, the chip is a 2X4 piece of lumber. Being the top dog among nations does carry a price, and the price is ENVY!

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 25, 2004, 16:46:

Personally, I think a lot of the hatred is completely justified. You only need to make one trip to the American embassy in Bogota to understand why we are hated world-wide. The embassy personnel treat Colombian citizens with contempt and disrespect. In fact this pretty much sums up the American attitude towards the citizens of other nations: contempt and disrespect. One day our ignorance and contemptuous attitude towards "barbarians" is going to do us in just as it has every other empire....

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:04:

LOL... Attack of the Huns!?

I've never been to Bogota, but I went to the Colombian consulate in Barranquilla once because I lost my passport, and they didn't seem rude to anyone there, Colombian or not. Plus, being disrespected like what you said happened in the Embassy is Worldwide! Considering I was poked fun at by my cousin's friends for being "el gringo", and was treated rudely by an Avianca agent for my Spanish skills (which I found strange, since she should be used to it with all the tourists). I was also snubbed by a woman in the Colombian Consulate in New York when I went to claim Colombian Citizenship... it happens everywhere!

For example, I used to think that the French being rude to Americans was a myth until I went to Paris; then, a French Canadian co-worker told me it wasn't just Americans either. Does this mean we should grab our pitchforkes and yell "DEATH TO FRANCE"! According to your statement, we might as well should! In fact, most French people I've met in the US have been the nicest and dearest people, so it's really the person and not the nationality.

Also, stress can have something to do with that. I worked at the airport a lot, and normally I'm very professional, but when I had three cancelled flights, a severe lack of staff, and the system crashed on us... I wasn't the nicest person to speak to at that time!

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:10:

PRMello29 HELLO QUOTE:

"I've recently been angered by a post on another website where a Colombian bashed the United States and I don't understand why. He says we're intolerant of other cultures (it's absolutely true) and are trying to take over the world (it's absolutely true), but by saying this it's obvious he's the ignorant one (NOT). Why do people who have never been to the US do this?"

WHO IS THE IGNORANT ONE ????

QUOTE:

"59% of the people living in the Miami Metro area are not "American" in the traditional sense."

NOT AMERICAN IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE ?????? Please explain that comment to my simple mind ... How are the other 41% American in the traditional sense ???????

The USA has a military presence in over 70 countries in the world (I think it's more than that maybe 90) and is buzy telling everyone what to do and how to do it.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:13:

See... American in a traditional sense would be: born in America.
American in an untraditional sense would be born elsewhere.

I didn't mean to say that naturalized Americans aren't traditional Americans, I meant more as in a person who is traditionally considered a national of a nation is one who is born there.

BTW... thank you for completely proving my point. :D

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:34:

PRMello29 HELLO So you are a traditional american living with untraditional american parents who, if they are naturalized, are traditional americans.

Hmmm, isn't Colombia in the armericas. Lets see north america, central america, south america and latin america. There sure is a lot of americas and I wonder if these people that live there are all american ?

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:38:

I think you proved our point. You seem to think that the other 59% of what you describe as non-traditional Americans are not Americans at all. Why would you be making any distinctions between the 59% and the 41%? This is exactly the attitude that I am talking about - anyone other than a native-born American is a second-class citizen who does not deserve the same respect. This is exactly what you see at the embassy - the Colombians are treated like dirt as though they do not deserve to be treated respectfully. When I went to the embassy I was ashamed to be an American and have these people represent us to the world.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:40:

Yes... they don't act American, and they keep their Colombian traditions and customs, despite living in the US and being Naturalized citizens. Plus... you keep misunderstanding what I meant by traditional and untraditional, so I'm not even going to argue with you. Perhaps you should try looking into being diplomatic and tolerant of other cultures, because your intolerance of the US you're obviously not.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:44:

Cowboy,

I'm not treating them like second class citizens, nor does anyone else, and I do respect them as Americans. I'm not saying they're not American nor that they do not have the same rights and respect as a national born here, it was just a way for noting the differences between the two.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:44:

And what exactly is acting American, pray tell? And you are lecturing us on intolerance? Maybe the people who are not really Americans by your standards should be identified in some way - maybe they could be tatooed or have some sign on their homes and businesses. I seem to recall these methods having been tried somewhere else.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:47:

The first comment wasn't meant for you, cowboy

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:48:

PRMello29 HELLO Is there something wrong with a foreign person keeping their life long (for generations) traditions and religions when they immigrate to the USA ? Are people the property of their governments or should they be free to lawfully change their place of residence in pursuit of a better or worse life.

My grandparents immigrated to the USA but it had a different sign up at that time saying "OPEN" now the gate is locked and the sign says "CLOSED".

I am glad you are not working for the INS or Homeland Security or all of us would be turned away at the USA border. Don't worry at the current rate of growth China will buy the USA in twenty more years and it will be a subsitary.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:54:

Why are you turning my comments into something negative. When did I say that my parents or anyone keeping their traditions was something wrong, or bad. I never said that, I'm in fact saying the exact opposite. I'm saying that a lot of people in other countries like to bash on the US for simple reasons that we're intolerant, when if fact iin many countries worldwide an immigrant is seen as the lesser being while in nations like the US, Canada, and the UK immigrants tend to flourish there. These nations have their natives but also represent the ideals of every other country and culture in the world, so by Bashing Americans you're basically bashing the cultures, traditions, and religions which are kept by those immigrants and should be kept by those immigrants. I'm all for keeping your traditions and I never said that they shouldn't. So don't twist my words around.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 17:58:

In other words... by bashing the US you're also bashing your own country, because there is no definition of an "American", it is basically either a native born American which is what people would consider a "traditional" American because they are born there, i'm using this word in the sense of "native" but I didn't wanna use naitve and alien because I thought that that would seem more segregist towards them. I was obviously wrong. Then there are naturalized Americans which came here and start new lives with their same traditions and culture, those are also just as American as the ones who are native and thus by bashing the US you might as well protest and insult your own nation.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:03:

Here are your exact words:

"Yes... they don't act American, and they keep their Colombian traditions and customs, despite living in the US and being Naturalized citizens".

"59% of the people living in the Miami Metro area are not "American" in the traditional sense".

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:09:

"59% of the people living in the Miami Metro area are not "American" in the traditional sense".

Again... I meant being born there.

"Yes... they don't act American, and they keep their Colombian traditions and customs, despite living in the US and being Naturalized citizens".

As in, they act Colombian, but they're still American, just not in gringo way, which is the most popular one. They're actually Colombian American, they act sort of a mix of both while keeping their traditional customs, which I have been raised by.

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:15:

PRMello29 HELLO The USA is my country of birth but I don't own it and I certainly hope that it doesn't own me although sometimes I feel like it claims me as it's property. Just because I was born in the USA I don't have to agree with and support everything it's political leaders may choose to do. The USA is still (marginally) a democracy allowing voices of dessent and that's not bashing by my definition. Maybe Homeland Security will take away those rights too.

I have to go home as this has given me a headache. You sound like a well meaning young man but you are part of the problem in the USA. Just evidence of why the USA the problems in the world community. You comments are not a solution but rather part of the problem.

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fennell01 says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:26:

china China will be so polluted in 20 years the US will be bailing them out-GUARANTEED....Just like we bail out AFRICA, ISRAEL, IRAQ, RUSSIA, BOSNIA, EGYPT, PAKISTAN, COLOMBIA(4BILLION per year and rising), SOUTH KOREA, SAUDI ARABIA, China's entire economy is 1/3 the size of Japan's, by the way.

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daver says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:39:

"59% of the people living in the Miami Metro area are not "American" in the traditional sense". Again... I meant being born there.

Hmmmm were not some of the founding fathers of the US born in England. In 1850 - 1930 how many New Yorkers were "American"... Is America not a country of immigrants? Perhaps its because in Miami, these people are Cubans, and other hispanics that they are not considered "Americans", whereas the Italians, Polish, Germans, Dutch, English, and Irish were considered Americans as long as they lived in America (regarless of thier birth place). Maybe like when blacks were considered 3/5ths of a person when southern states were fighting for higher representaion in the congress.


***The United States isn't a whole bunch of gringos... we're in fact the entire world summed up into one nation***

This kind of statement is EXACTLY the reason why people get upset with you Yanks. You honestly think that you represent "the entire world" in one nation... This goes to show that Americans (not all, but a lot) have a tendency to know nothing of the rest of the world. There is a whole other planet outside of your borders, and not all of it is represented in America. Your immigration policies are not "tolerant" they are based on economics, like every other nations immigration policy. America is a great country with great people, but do not think for one second that American ideals are the "worlds views" and that everyone in the world shares in the "American Dream". I for one don't, and I never will.

A lot of Americans tell me that people are anti-American because they are jealous of the top-dog country. The USA has been the top country in the world (economically) for 100 years. Why is anti-Americanism on the rise now? Perhaps its not jealousy.... perhaps there is some real anger brewing.

Dave

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:39:

It may be so, but this doesn't mean one has to spite the US. I don't agree with the war in Iraq, or Bush, or interveening in other nations businesses (such as Israel/Palenstine and the whole Kosovo deal), but what can you do. People tend to think that because one government acts it means every national is behind them. Thus, chanting DEATH TO THE UNITED STATES! Being born here, and probably raised as well (or not) you should know that we're not all government drones who support the government 100%. It's clearly seen in the fact the nation is divided through the upcoming election.

It's the same as if the world would turn around and start saying: DEATH TO COLOMBIA; They're the #1 reson why there are drugs in the world! Or... well they have militia groups so they must all be guerillas!

The US is not trying to take over the world... that is something people outside of the US tend to think because of what I said, American culture influences the whole world, so, as a national of another nation it might seem as if their cultural influence is a way of trying to overtake the world.

It's simply choice. You choose to watch our movies, TV shows, follow our trends, and learn our language, we're not forcing you to do it. We don't force you to adapt our culture, you do it on your own, and don't say it's not possible to block us out because there are many countries out there which have almost completely defined their own indetities apart for the US and in fact influece the Americans themselves. Such as Japan.

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pointofview says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:39:

fennell01 The USA's deep pockets will be more empty in 20 years with the current rate of cash burn and job/economic loss occurring. Maybe China will bail them out. Who do you think is buying all our US treasury debt ?

As far as pollution I guess the USA won't have a problem as they will have lost all their industry. Besides China and Russia will export their pollution to Alaska, Canada and the eastern USA mainland just like West Africa exports their pollution throughout the Atlantic and caribbean even to the shores of the USA mainland (global wind movements).

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daver says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:43:

****The US is not trying to take over the world... that is something people outside of the US tend to think because of what I said, American culture influences the whole world, so, as a national of another nation it might seem as if their cultural influence is a way of trying to overtake the world.****

People are not affraid of American music and TV, they are affraid of America.

Dave

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:47:

Yeah, arguments are fun.

It's the truth though daver. You enter New York City and it's like touring the world. I know you may not see the American dream, but there are many countless who do. Plus there are other nations which also share this "entire world in one nation title", Canada being the main one along with the US. A place where immigrants go for a better. Perhaps your life is perfect where you live, but this doesn't mean you have to come and insult Americans simply for being there.

We have been a top world power not only economically, but also culturally, and the anger that is brewing, as I've explained countless times is the american culture adaptation of the world.

I'm really regretting using that "traditional" thing there, it was greatly misunderstood.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 18:49:

The are only afraid of America because they believe America is going to one day attack and adapt everyone.

I do agree though that Iraq was wrong, but this is one government administration amongst many and one which I do not support. Everyone is quick to point out all the faults and reasons to hate us, but no one can ever see the good because they're afraid that by seeing it they'll be giving in to the American Imperialism.

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litost says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:04:

PRMello, man, you really should get your facts straight if you don't wanna keep sounding like an idiot. How can you say China's entire economy is only 1/3 that of Japan's??? Are you using decades old facts or what??? From the CIA site:

"Government-industry cooperation, a strong work ethic, mastery of high technology, and a comparatively small defense allocation (1% of GDP) helped Japan advance with extraordinary rapidity to the rank of second most technologically-powerful economy in the world after the US and third-largest economy after the US and China."

Besides that, you mention that the US shouldn't get involved in other countries' affairs... and you mention Israel/Palestine and Kosovo... precisely two conflicts which by all accounts deserve foreign intervention in which the US must play a key role (especially the Middle East mess).

Finally, why do some people keep thinking that just because they eat Pizza, have a China Town, dance to latin music and buy at stores owned by Indian men, all of a sudden that "they have the world in their city". Com'on, this is so cliche, this is true of just about any major city in Northamerica and Europe, and with globalization is also true in many other parts of the globe.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:09:

I didn't mention anything about China.

Your reading the subject line instead of the user name.

The china comment was posted by "pointofview" and the 2nd by "fennell01"

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:11:

and not because the eat pizza, dance latin music... etc, but because most immigrants in New York do not come from one specific part of the world (such as miami and LA). On second thought... seeing the statistics, Toronto might be more the capital of the world. It's the diversity of nationalities living in one specific city. You'll find mainly hispanics in Miami, but you'll find people from every nation in New York... that is what I meant and that is what evweryone means by "the capital of the world"... plus, the UN headquarters is in New York. That might also have something to do with it.

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daver says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:18:

"Top of the world culturally". Oh my god!! That totally stinks of bullshit. Now, I'm not saying American culture is bad, but being the top world power?? Not everyone bases culture off of "Survivor 8", Micheal Jackson, New Kids on the Block, Monday Night Football, sitting around the TV to watch the OJ Simpson trial, COPS, Brittny or fine dining at Jack in the Box. If you want culture, go to Europe, Asia or South America, where culture goes well beyond fast food joints and Wallmart.

Yes, Canada has an established base of multicultrualism (not the melting pot like the US) but we do not believe that the Canadian way of life represents the views of the world. Nor do we have hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people who hate us.

***Perhaps your life is perfect where you live, but this doesn't mean you have to come and insult Americans simply for being there.***

My life is not perfect. I never claimed it was. I haven't come to America to insult anyone. "simply for being there".... hmmm I thought I had somewhat intelligent arguements (despite my bad spelling)... I have never insulted Americans for "simply being there" and neither has anyone who responded to your post. Who are you talking about??

***The are only afraid of America because they believe America is going to one day attack and adapt everyone.***

Who thinks this? I really believe that people who have beefs against the US have better arguments than that. The people of South America who have endured American puppet governments and aggresive and one sided foreign policy don't have this conception of "the invasion of the body snatchers" coming from the US to adapt them all.

The only expample of this fear of adaptation that I can think of is the propaganda films that American put out to scare its people about Communism. For instance the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was made by an American who paralelled the Communist "threat" to aliens from space who would brain wash you into being something else. I guess this movie, in all its splendor, is another expample of how American culture is #1 in the world.... thats still making me laugh!!!

Dave

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:40:

You do have had really good arguments.

You see, I was misunderstood from the start, and people just kept attacking me. I didn't post this to attack anyone. I was just interested in knowing why people like to attack, crtisize, and hate Americans. Unfortunately, it's impossible to express emotions through typing... so, some comments which I didn't mean in a sarcastic, or rude manner have come out as rude and sarcastic. Such as the perfect life thing. I didn't mean perfect life literally, but I meant your life is good enough that you didn't need to come to the US but wanted to, if you are in the US (I think I got that out of context).

You can't deny that American culture isn't influencing everyone.

***The are only afraid of America because they believe America is going to one day attack and adapt everyone.*** ***Who thinks this? I really believe that people who have beefs against the US have better arguments than that.***

Name 1! I've yet to find one foreigner who hates the US that hasn't said either that we're trying to take over the world, or that we meddle in other people's business when we shouldn't (which I find true).

If you can name something else other than these reasons and its many variations.

I'm not talking about anyone in the this post, but rather about those people who like the one I encountered on the other site.

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PRMello29 says on Aug 25, 2004, 19:55:

Ok, I gotta go... so before anyone else posts on here. I just wanna say:

It was a very good debate, but I'm afraid I've been misleading you the whole time. I was kinda bored tonight so I set this whole thing up knowing that many people would come here and add their two cents. I'm actually not what I said I am. I was born in Colombia and was raised in Longueuil, Québec but I now live in NY. I'm an International Relations Major and was discussing this same subject at my class today in school. Stumbled upon this site, and thought it would be the perfect place to post, seeing as there are so many different people here, not just Colombians. Everything I wrote was purposely written to induce more of an argument. Not to make Americans look bad, I love you guys! But living here, I have noticed how a lot of the things I used to think about America were really blown out of proportion. I also know there are plenty of Americans who actually are the exact way people outside the US think they are, but that's a miniscule amount. I can say I love Colombia, I love Canada, and I also love the US. If I did offend you, I'm terribly sorry. But you must admit, you had fun arguing with me... didn't you?

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JamieJ says on Aug 25, 2004, 21:21:

Listo
The second largest economy in the world is Japan. China is number six less than 25% of Japans as of the end of 2003. You not only called the wrong person an idiot but the correct data wrong. I would not use the CIA site as a source of economic information it is probably as accurate as their assessment of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


Most of world does not hate the U.S. and most Americans could care less what the rest of the world thinks because the U.S is their world. Only a small percentage of Americans travel outside of the States. Most people with power use it and this applies to countries, what’s new about this. I believe the U.S accepts more immigrants than all other countries combined. You give two one-way airline tickets to each individual, one to the States and one to their destination of choice in their home country. Guess where many will be heading? This would tell you what the world really thinks about the U.S. And while we are far from perfect we are still the nation with the greatest opportunities in the world. As long as we maintain economic and personal freedom this isn’t go to change.


Jamie
Engage The Exotic

Jamie

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daver says on Aug 25, 2004, 23:37:

JamieJ,

Whats up with the CIA site? I wanted to double check what you said.

The CIA for 2003 gave Chinas GDP at 5.7 trillion, and Japan at 3.55 Trillion.

The world bank says in 2002 China GDP = 1.3 trillion and Japan = 4.0 trillion.

(Maybe the CIA wants us to believe that China has 4 trillion hidden in weapons of mass destruction?)

So, the world bank would suggest that Japan's economy (as far as GDP indicators go) is roughly 4 times that of China. I guess those Toyotas, Hondas, and Mitsubishis sell for more than crappy plastic things, t-shirts, and stuffed animals...

Dave

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litost says on Aug 26, 2004, 06:20:

OK, it looks like we're all right... kinda.

In the World Bank site there are two GDP rankings, one is the regular GDP and the other is GDP by PPP (purchasing power parity). In the first China comes in 7th place and would have an economy roughly 1/3 the size of Japan's. However, in the latter PPP ranking China is second and almost doubles Japan's GDP. As far as I can understand, the regular GDP accounts everything in US Dollars, and the PPP uses an international dollar vaue and seems to consider the actual purchasing power of a country's output.

It still amazes me that there could be such a large difference. In any case my perception the last few years is that everywhere you read and hear about China being the world's second economy having surpassed Japan and in a few decades becoming #1. daver, I wouldn't underestimate China's production, it may not yet be as sophisticated as Japan's but I can bet you a vacation in Cartagena that in a decade or two there will be plenty of Chinese companies as household names... the thing is they don't like others butchering there unpronouncable language, so they'll surely use english names or acronyms as opposed to Japan.

BTW, I'm an international relations alumni myself :-)

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pointofview says on Aug 26, 2004, 10:11:

China Growth You need to look at economic growth as China is growing faster than any economy on earth at a 8% growth rate. What is the USA, Japan and Germany growing at as all three have economic promblems at this time. They are trying to slow China's growth rate because of the impact on world commodity prices. Why do you think the price of steel has doubled and oil is soaring. It's not because of USA demand but China ever increasing demand. China is sucking jobs from all over the world including Colombia. Nothing new in heavy manufacturing plants is being built in the USA, refining plants are now all built offshore, the Boeing Company was once almost a monopoly in commerical aircraft production being reduced to a defense contractor with a smaller presence in the commercial aircraft market.

The USA government and labor (in their wisdom) has driven industry offshore never to return. The China of today is like the USA after the turn of the last century. I imagine the european industrial empires said that little USA would never amount to anything big. If anyone thinks that all they produce in China is plastic trinkets, dolls and toys you better take another look at Wal-Mart as about 70% of their product line comes from China. China manufacturers everything you can imagine except commercial airplanes and I am sure that's coming next.

Money from all over the world is pouring in to China (from Asia, USA, Japan and Europe) ramping up production of everything imaginable. Jobs from everywhere worldwide are being displaced including Colombia (textile industry as an example).

The problem is that there is no fix and everyones job in manufacturing (in the USA) is at risk. I can hire competent bilingual employees in Colombia and Panama for less than the cost of just providing health coverage for employees in the USA.

A lot more people should have listened to Ross Perot but he was ahead of his time. The sucking sound you hear now is not just our jobs but rather it's also our wealth. Costs in the USA are moving higer at a time that wages will move lower and their will be some unhappy campers in the streets when the shit hits the fan.

There is a 2.000.000.000 lb gorilla with one foot (one leg) in the door and it's too late to close it. Check China's trade surplus and the growing trade deficit of the USA.

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Dan says on Aug 26, 2004, 10:45:

american or not I only got about half way on reading all the posts... but it seems people just want to catagorize people based on place of birth, race, sex or what ever it might be. It makes absolutely no sence to do that. We are tought in history class that the US is a melting pot, where the cultures and people come to a place to live together. I wasn't born IN the US. I was born in Germany. But my birth certificate is from the US. Does this meen I'm not a "Traditional" American... Hell no!! I do not have a German birth certificate. I was born on an american Military base, so for all intents and purposes, I AM an American. there is not a single bit of distinction apart from that.

A lot of the time, people usually ask each other "where are you from?" Me, I don't like that question very much. Sure I'm american, but I don't claim any specific place. The only ties I have is where my family currently lives, yet still don't claim that place either. My dad was military. I am currently 26 years old and still have not lived anywhere for more that 2 or 3 years at the MOST. Because I don't claim any specific state, sure as hell doesn't make me any less american. Personaly, I think it's a benifit. I have experienced more about other cultures and people in my childhood than many people experience in there entire lives. I use what I learn about other people. I respect what and who people are. and maybe make a part of it into myself.

Catagorize me how ever you wish. I don't care. I know who I am and I don't need someone who doesn't even know me to say otherwise.

-Daniel

God Bless America!

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AmyEnMontreal says on Aug 26, 2004, 15:27:

This was very biased on everyone's part. Instead of arguing about who's better, who hates whom, and why, we should focus on ways to unify the world.

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juaninlosangeles says on Aug 26, 2004, 16:17:

True Thats true Amy, I definitely agree with you. I think its pretty dumb to generalize any one person according to their nationality. There are good people and bad people all over the world, there are rude and nice people all over the world. Gimme a break

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Diana says on Aug 26, 2004, 19:16:

PrMello29, before you go around with a United States flag posted on your forehead, you should take into consideration all of the free trade zones where OSHA laws, enviromental laws, etc. etc. can not be used. Take into consideration the abuse that goes on in these countries because the states uses them for cheap labor.

Also, a person that talks so much of ignorance should really take into consideration learning some history in order to stop referring to the people of the United States (gringos) as the one and only Americans. In case you forgot there exist North America, South America, and Central America. Therefore, any of the people born in either of these places are Americans.

Just wondering PrMello29, where do you consider yourself to be from. Are you a traditional or non-traditional idiot????????

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Diana says on Aug 26, 2004, 19:26:

I wish I would have read the entire post, before responding. But after that blah blah blah you said about posting this because you are in an international relations major, now I feel more safe to say you are an idiot.

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caslug says on Aug 26, 2004, 20:44:

an american impersonator PRM, so now your "impersonating" an "ugly american", Quite good actually. eh. ;-)

You better be careful though, because Mr. Ridge at Homeland Security is really cracking down foreign nationals looking to do mischief in our country, especially w/ the convention in NYC. They might just send you on a free trip to cuba for fun-in-sun.

Kidding aside, an american traveling abroad can present two images of in foreign country, they can be the "quiet american", ie, polite, respectful, humble, generous, & funny or they can be the "ugly american", ie loud, obnoxious, & know-it-all. So you can guess which image that the american basher conjure ups.

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juanalejo says on Aug 27, 2004, 07:30:

Americans Most Americans I have met through out my life are very nice people, but so are most people around the world, the problem comes when some Americans tend to believe that their way of thinking is the only valid way of thinking, this is very evident not only through out this thread with some of the posts but also when ever you see American politics around the world. Nobody likes being pressured into something they do not believe in, and the American government with their military might and their economic sanctions are always doing that. It is like having a boss in your office who threatens you with firing you or lowering your salary if you do not comply with their doings even if you think they are wrong. So it comes earning a reputation and then trying to get rid of it, we Colombians know what is all about, we have a very bad one and it will stay like that for many years to come. For Americans it is the same, and as long as their government does not comply with international treaties when is not convenient, when it overrules international organizations when they feel like it and as long as Americans will remain unwilling to recieve critisizim and not dismiss different points of view, they will remain as not the best liked country in the world. This does not mean people will stop migrating, as long as the rich countries keep on getting richer and the poor ones poorer there will be migrants to here ever there are better payed jobs.

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 08:36:

From PRM:***Sort of like From PRM:

***Sort of like a Canadian friend of mine. He once accused me, as an American, of being ignorant (judging me without even knowing me yet) because everyone knows who the President of the United States is, but I wouldn't know who the Prime Minister of Canada is.***

***I was born in Colombia and was raised in Longueuil, Québec but I now live in NY.***

So you were born in Colombia, grew up in Canada, and a Canadian friend accused you of not knowing the prime minister of Canada because you are American? Whoaa there guy, that's a little weird.

Anyway, I just want to apologize for a few posts I made on this forum... I feel I was a little harsh on the US. Being Canadian, we are instinctively anti-American to a small degree, in that we are in a constant battle to retain our own culture... however we do not hate Americans, or America (we do share the longest undefended border in the world, and represent the greatest trade between two nations). Secondly, being Canadian, I had far too many beers when posting those messages!! Nothing like a good night of Labatt Blue and arguing political issues that I don't fully understand!

There are things about the US that have always bothered me, however, after working there (on a non-immigrant work permit that is very easy to get as a Canadian, as we tend not to stay illegally) I found most Americans to be good, intelligent people. I started to understand them better, and my respect for Americans and America increased dramatically while living and working there. Sure, some times Americans know very little about the world around them... someone would call Canada a "second world" nation, or ask me if "we still worship the queen" or say the UN "doesn't know what the hell they are talking about" (One guy from Alabama asked if we eat beaver in Canada, to which I had a snappy comeback...) , but then again, I'm running into idiots all the time back here in Canada, who know nothing about the world other than what they here from other Canadians (namely "US is bad, we are good").

Namely, in Canada, we are brainwashed to believe that our health care system is the best in the world... far better than the US! We are led to believe that it is "free". I came down to the US and was willing to argue this to anyone. One American (who was very intelligent, and wise about the world around him) pointed out if he lived in Canada, the amount of Canadian federal goods and services sales tax (which the US does not have) he would have paid in one year was much higher than his health insurance premiums in the US. And so I actually pay more in Canada, for our inefficient, fraudulant, and crumbling health care system (waiting in line for 6 hours to see a doctor that I can't choose) yet we are led to believe that America is bad because of its health system. Its simply propaganda so Canadians don't realize how crappy are health care system is, and start a revolt.

Well, my point being, not every American is as bad as that idiot American tourist that we've all run into once in a while. A lot of them are, but the majority are not.

And as far as American foriegn policy. Hmmmmmm.... what country in history that has had power has used it to their advantage like the US does?

Just a short list:
England
France
Russia (and USSR)
Germany
Spain
Portugal
Greece (Greek Empire)
Italy (Roman empire)
Egypt (3 to 5 thousand years ago)
Iceland (Vikings)
China
Japan

Now why would the US be any different?

Dave

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 27, 2004, 09:03:

Probably the best post in this whole thread, Daver! So what did you say when he asked you if you ate beaver?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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aaronfromus says on Aug 27, 2004, 09:08:

balanced Daver,
You sound like you've got a very balanced view. I like your reference to the history of other nations at the end of your post too. "Do you eat Beaver in Canada"? Wow.... What was your snappy comeback?

On a side note, sometimes I too do not think the UN knows what they are doing. It is just another beauracracy to me.

have a good one,
Aaron

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caslug says on Aug 27, 2004, 11:00:

As Daver mention, countries with "might" tend fall into the trap of thinking they are "right". America is no exception especially with a president who thinks he/gov't is "right" all the time. But I have faith that average american will make the "correction" when they feel the country is too out of wack. We're not used to people not liking us, we pride ourselves as people/country in being nice/friendly. That's why it was such as shock for us to find some non-americans want to bomb us. In our past history, even when America threw it's might around, it was tempered w/ compassion & reconcillation especially from our leaders.

Sure there are americans would are bad and do hurtful things(Prison in Iraq) or a$$$h$$$ tourist, but they are very small minority. Most american you meet in or outside of america is good respectfull people.

What's america/american great at??? Complaining!!(I'm sure the french might complain that they are great at this too) :-) But I think we're #1 in this field. We complain about everything under the sun (our taxes, fellow americans, other countries, weather, food, langauge, sports, work, women's breast, you name it). BUT we also get to complain about our gov't or officials without the fear of being shot, thrown in jail, or torture(Notwitstanding the patriot act). And when enough of us complain loud/hard enough we change the world in a good way(civil rights act, women right act, stopping war, stopping torture(by americans), etc.,). So next time you see an american in your city complaining about no-one understanding english, be nice. ;-)

Just for the record, americans have been know to eat beavers too. :-)

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 11:48:

OK, you will be disapointed, the beaver comeback was not that snappy.

The guy from Alabama (he was an intern at Toyota in Kentucky, where I was working as a mechanical engineer) had brought up shark, and alligator meat. He let me have some, and we got talking about what we have ate before (yes, two young guys without girlfriends, there's not too much to talk about). I went on about eating moose, black bear, rabbit etc... He asked, with his dumb Forest Gump accent "D'y'all eat beaver up there in Canada" and I just said "every damn weekend if we can".

It was funny at the time, but there has been way too much buildup. I saw a guy with a t-shirt up here in Canada that said "Save trees - Eat Beaver" and we actually have a hardware franchise up here called "Beaver Lumber". Do the math, that's kinda funny.

What do you expect from a country that has a tree chewing, damn building rodent as its national symbol? Our other symbol is a maple leaf. No wonder countries like to have the UN send Canadian Peace Keepers... were not a scary bunch up here. (Although we do have the largest population of French people in the world that have never surrendered to Germany!!). Robbin Williams described it the best in one of his stand up routines: "Canada... thats like living in a loft apartment with a really good party going on downstairs"

***What's america/american great at??? Complaining!!***

If you want the gods honest truth, Americans complain less than other 1st world nations. Yes, people like Colombians are eternally optomistic (which makes Americans look like whiners), but compared to Canada, Great Britian etc... Americans complain a lot less (I think). I went to Finland, and they complained about everything under the sun (which was in the sky for 23 hours a day)... the Fins are fantastically nice, polite, and intelligent people but they were just as bad as us Canadians in complaining about everything. I mean, Canadians complain about the weather EVERY DAMN DAY OF THE YEAR (and many many many other things)! And in Finland, when it was really nice out, they would complain that "we only get 3 or 4 days like this a year" or "its too hot". I found in the US, people had a more positive outlook on almost everything... and so did I when I got to pay $1.25/gallon for gas in Kentucky.

***In our past history, even when America threw it's might around, it was tempered w/ compassion & reconcillation especially from our leaders***

I'm not so sure that is true. For instance in Panama, the operation was called "Just Cause" and most Americans think nothing of it. The US government sugar coated that whole affair... restoring freedom, liberty blah blah blah. However, the Americans invaded in poor "leftest" neighbourhoods, causeing great desctruction, killing thousands of civilians, and destroying whole neighbourhoods. Were the casualties reported??... no, the Marines bulldozed the bodies into the ocean. An Italian jouranlist was shot in the head by a US marine while trying to film this. The Marines then went to their right wing political allies in Panama, who gave them a list of names of "leftests". The American military rounded up these people and jailed them with no charge, no proof, no lawyer, no trial...

These kinds of things happen in all wars, its just the American government seems to want everyone to think that they are "different" and "better" and "just". If you listen to the presidents, you'd think God was always on the side of the Americans (yet they call muslims "religeous radicals"). If God is always on your side, then who is on the side of your enemy?

I was speaking to an ex-navy technician, who also worked at Toyota with me in Kentucky. He was in the Navy during Mrs Reagans war on drugs. They went to board a Colombian ship near Florida, and the people on board were pitching their cargo of cocaine into the ocean. They sank the Colombian ship with one 6" shell to the engine room. He told me, they took the Colombians on board, and strapped them to the deck of the US ship. They sailed to Virginia, and for 3 days they never fed or gave the Colombians shade from the sun. They gave them water once a day. This ex navy man told me "Us Americans do the same shit as every other army when the TV cameras aren't rolling"

He wasn't a macho rambo type either... he told us that when one young American kid working there was going on about how "at least our military isn't evil" blah blah blah.

So, of course the majority of Americans are good people, but your government does things, everyday, that they accuse other governments of doing.

Dave

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 12:40:

"I went to Finland, and they complained about everything under the sun (which was in the sky for 23 hours a day)... the Fins are fantastically nice, polite, and intelligent people but they were just as bad as us Canadians in complaining about everything. I mean, Canadians complain about the weather EVERY DAMN DAY OF THE YEAR (and many many many other things)! And in Finland, when it was really nice out, they would complain that "we only get 3 or 4 days like this a year" or "its too hot"."

Too bad you didn't come to Sweden, then you would have heard some serious complaining...especially about the weather that is never right for anybody. Anyway, thanks for your kind words about my compatriots:)
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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JamieJ says on Aug 27, 2004, 12:41:

Diana “because the states uses them for cheap labor.�
Diana what do you call the indigenous companies paying the indigenous workers an even lower wage? Does that mean every employer in that given country is using everyone for cheap labor? Do you think U.S companies pay less than the market rate in that country. Of course they don’t the going rate prevails. If the market is not going to determine the rate between two parties who should? Tell me your solution?

“history in order to stop referring to the people of the United States (gringos) as the one and only Americans. In case you forgot there exist North America, South America, and Central America. Therefore, any of the people born in either of these places are Americans.�

For the most part most Latin Americans do not refer to themselves as “American� to foreigners and most people from the U.S do refer to themselves as “American.� Also for the most part European and Asians refer to those from the U.S as “American� where as they would not do the same for someone from Colombia. They are exceptions to this but the fact is the reference of who is an “American� has been changing as do many words in our language based on how people use them.



Jamie
Engage The Exotic

Jamie

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 12:58:

Americans Yes, tinto, unfortunately you're right. But that's only because you guys don't have a better name...though I myself always call you either "gringos" or "yankees" :)))
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Aug 27, 2004, 13:37:

Just like many things in america(USA variety) we assimilate things and call them our own. The word/context "America" is no different. However, i was taught that in spanish, i should call myself norte americano instead of just americano. Or gringo if it's more informal atmosphere.

I still think that american are the # 1 complainer, if only based on raw complainers(300 million & growing). Which is alot more than canada or finland or any other country. Of course china would be #1 w/ 1 billion people, but their gov't doesn't allow them to complain. :-)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 13:44:

there's another word in Spanish that's even better: estadounidense. It gets my vote:) About whining: it's the quality not the quantity that matters. I'd say the Swedes, based on my own personal experience.
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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litost says on Aug 27, 2004, 14:01:

On a trip to Spain a few years ago I got into a cab on some street in Madrid, after overhearing me talking with my brother who was with me, the driver asked: "Ustedes vienen/son de America?"... I felt so unexpectedly surprised and happy of the fact that, for the first time ever, someone refered to me as an "americano" in the true, literal sense of the world.

I responded with a mouth full of pride, "si, somos de America, somos colombianos."

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caslug says on Aug 27, 2004, 14:02:

"estaounidense" ??? That's way to hard for us gringos to remember let alone pronounce.

How can swedes have as much to complain as americans. My cousin is from sweden(living in US) and whines that american gov't doesn't give money/apartment to people like they do in sweden. He said the lifestyle is much more easy going than US. He once told me, "america gives you the opp't to make money if you're work REALLY HARD while in sweden, you can enjoy life more without making lots of money".

During WWII, Stalin once said, "quantity has a certain quality of it's own"...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 14:19:

it's not easy to understand. I guess that when you there's nothing really bad happening around you, when life is kind of easy and offers no great challenges (who can drink the largest amount of beer in one night can hardly qualify as a real challenge), people complain of every little thing. No, Swedes don't have to work hard to live comfortably. They just have to work, or rather, be employed. That, or either qualify for any number of social benefits and employment rehabilitation programs. When all the big issues related to survival and covering the basic necessities are removed, there's always a myriad of other things to complain about: mostly the weather that never suits anybody. It's either too rainy or too dry, too hot or too cold. There's not enough or rather too much snow. The neighbor has the top of the line cellular, while you have only an ordinary Ericsson or Nokia. Your workmate takes five minute too long coffee breaks or comes to work 2 minutes late every other month. You can stay home "sick" for seven work days without going to a doctor: everybody gets sick all the time, but if you complain, you are being nasty and unsocial.
I wouldn't put too much faith on the opinions of Joseph Stalin; not one of my heroes.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 15:50:

Des,The kind words are de Des,

The kind words about Fins are deserved. I was there for a month working in a place called Mikkeli (or at least thats how I spell it). Its a bit out in the middle of nowhere, and one of my Canadian co-workers was so smart as to fill our gas car with deisel. When our car died about 5 minutes later, in the middle of nowhere, EVERY single car stopped to help, EVERY ONE! They were lined up to help...

The younger Fins seemed delighted to be able to speak to English speaking people, and they asked us a lot about Canada. They were also delighted that we enjoyed Finland. I couldn't get over how almost everyone had command of the English language. Some had never spoke to an native english speaker before, and they spoke better than some people I know who have lived in Canada for 5 years. That, and Fins are reserved and quiet, just like Canadians.

I had a hell of time in Helsinki. We worked 25 straight days, then got 2 days off in the city for some good drinking. ..."We partied like porn stars" is how one of my coworkers described it back in Canada.

In Mikkeli, we went out on one Friday, and it happened to be graduation night. All the kids were wearing sailors hats... And every kid from 14 to 18 was completely drunk in the centre of the city (a big park). I found it amazing, as in Canada or the US, that kind of group, so drunk, in public, would surely lead to fights, and cops. Everyone seemed so well behaved.... and VERY drunk. And, as a bonus, Miss Finland 2003 was at the bar we went to!

Oh. One other thing... EVERY Finn I met had bad things to say about Sweden (Not as bad as what they said about Russians, but pretty bad none the less)! A valve broke on a hydraulic system I had designed (an elevator for a bungee tower) and one of the Finns noticed it was made in Sweden.... It absolutely made their day!

And as far as complaining in socialist countries, there is this huge battle brewing in my neighbourhood between the people who play baseball in the local park, and the people who walk their dogs there (like me). We've resorted to nasty meetings at city council, letters to the newspaper, name-calling, and someone just dug big holes in the infield so the ball players can't play (maybe a dog did it).... its the hottest topic of debate! Everyone is upset and complaining... just another perfect day in Canada (so long as you don't mind all this damn heat and humidity!)

Dave

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 27, 2004, 16:44:

lovehate There's always been this love-hate relationship between the Swedes and the Finns. It's time-honoured and ever-lasting. It dates back to the long centuries when we were the hindlands of the Swedish crown, the buffer zone against the invading Russians and soldiers in the army of the kings of Sweden. When we gained our independence we were involved in wars against Russia, while Sweden had declared neutrality and was busy building the "people's home", the Socialdemocratic paradise where every citizen would be happy and well taken cared of. We struggled with our economy paying back the debts of war while Sweden prospered. Many Finns emigrated to Sweden to work there and would come to visit their families inthe summer with their splitter-new Volvos and tell tall stories of the good life in Sweden.
Now, the picture has changed and Finland is solid and well-to-do. There's a Swedish-speaking minority (about 5,5 %) that has traditionally been both economically and culturally strong in Finland. Thus, Finland is officially a bilingual country, much like Canada. Most Finns, though, hate the idea of having to learn compulsory Swedish in schools, since the Swedish-speaking minority is getting smaller and less important by the hour.
The Swedes have always considered us a bit barbaric people (we did chop off the heads of the Swedish missionaries with axes when they first came to Finland trying to convert us to Christian religion:), but in the end they have learned to respect us for being a nation of hard-working, trustworthy people.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 27, 2004, 19:37:

Des, you call us "gringos" or "Yankees"? No one from Texas would ever appreciate being called a Yankee. Them's fighting words. Gringo is what Mexicans call us and is not much appreciated either (check out the Molotov song called "Beaner") but the average Texan would rather be called a gringo than a Yankee.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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daver says on Aug 27, 2004, 20:14:

***Most Finns, though, hate the idea of having to learn compulsory Swedish in schools,***

You should have seen me when I was told that I "had" to learn French! But, the French have been in Canada since day one, and have palyed a proportional role in building our nation (or constitutional monarchy or dominion, or confederacy, or whatever the heck we are). French class sucked though!!! Sucked big time!

OK good. Now I know why the Finns have this dislike of the Swedes... I just assumed it was like the "big brother" complex us Canadians have with the US. I understood the Russian thing quite well... being an avid reader of 20th Century History, I understood the Winter War and Cold War issues of Russia and Finland.

What amazes me is that there are only 5 million Finns in the world, and they have a firm grip on their culture, and are holding in strong. I know many Canadians of Finn background (some cities in northern Ontario are about 1/3 Finn heritage) but they are English speaking Canadians now. I guess our countries have enough in common that is was easy enough for the Finns to "melt" into being Canadian. I, for one, am damn glad they brought their saunas with them to Canada!

Oh yeah, a Finn can talk hockey with the best of them. Thats enough to be loved by a Canadian any day. A Finn who worked with us was named "Kuri" (his first name) and we kept on calling him "Jari" unintentionally becuase of the hockey player...


Dave

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KOMACHI says on Aug 28, 2004, 03:40:

usa personally compared personal view of america compared with other places



I lived in the states for about 2 years, I wasn’t even planning living in there, I just happen to be in LA airport coming back from Japan, a nice lady on the plane told me that san Francisco was a beautiful city, so I went to give it a look and I stayed for about 2 years. I was so pleased, I change my visa status and I was able to live there without complications, I got a drivers license I got a social security number, how? There is laws and laws that are against laws ... who knows, is all made to welcome the immigrants or visitors. I never had any problem on the street or anyone look at me on a mean way, even thought I saw a shooting 15 foot from me. It was the first I saw somebody getting killed, in downtown San Francisco by the police doing their job. I felt safe all the time and everyday pleased to be there, I was never left outside I always felt like any American, maybe I was just lucky but I never felt any discrimination... I am not white I am just a typical mestizo, I was always treated with courtesy, and I never saw any black people mistreated. Everybody mind their own business and everyone behaves, nobody had dirty looks to my girlfriend on the street. I was pleased to receive a letter from the justice department to be a juror... I could not because I am not an American... but I have to admit it pleased me to death. If I have any beef on a place I just say the magical words… if there is a word in America that make you people do what ever you want them to do is: “I am not satisfied� (with the service or product) you don’t know the power of this words I have got the presidential treatment only by saying those words, (try that in France I have seen the manager leaves the costumer talking alone and the security guard pushing the poor guy outside)… I went to the hospital and they send me a bill for $550.0 I thought it was expensive for a painkiller and 4 hours in emergency room... so I called... “There is a law�... I said I can’t pay such a bill ... the girl say I qualify for (I don’t remember what) and my bill was reduce to a mere 10 bucks,
I could rent an apartment I could send money overseas I could lease a car I could open a cell phone account... and I just got there as a mere tourist. (Try that in France by yourself)
I have experience living in Japan Canada and now France. This is my personal view of the following:

Japan? Let’s see, I can not even buy a prepaid phone, why? I complained with anger... there is no way I can run away without paying the bill?? In an extremely polite way they say is not possible. The homogeneity takes place. Extremely hard working people
Nice, clean, Japanese always smile! Treat you with courtesy... but be careful, that is not what they really think!
Canadians? Where in the hell is the Guinness record of the smallest church? Everything in Canada is the "SUPERLATIVE" CN tower the tallest in the world, Yonge St. the longest in the world, you go up the CN tower in Toronto and they give you all this facts of tallest fastest of the elevator in the world, the biggest underground shopping complex in the world... that is a complex for being beside the united states they need to get bigger than they really are. So who pays for it? Latinos or whoever they think are less, so funny my Japanese girlfriend and I were looking for apartment... Canadians think Japanese are the greateST, cleaneST, honeST people in the world... we would go for an apartment and they will ask her: where are you from? From Japan she answered... the people would go... konichiwa!!?? Arigato!!?? The typical 2 words everybody knows whit a wide smile and a feeling that is all ours. Then my fear and YOU? I am from South America... the expression on their face made me realize they wanted more info. Colombia! I said, I don’t know why but I wish I had a camera with me... that smiles on their face will abruptly change... I don’t know... I never heard a joke on the coke thing in the states even once... but in Canada from the airport the immigration was asking me in a ironic way that if my family loves green stuff and if I brought some from back home. And from that day and almost after every time I introduce myself they will go with the same phrase... oh cocaine! Over and over... very sad people to be around with.
France... make no difference... when I was in the states I noticed how black people where a bit noisier in the bus on the street and they wear clothes in a manner that people will notice them, a good friend of mine who happens to be black, explained me that black people have had many repression, they wan to be heard and want to be seen after may years of having to shut up and be in different places as the whites...so I thought that is very understandable... I agree with their way and I think that is the best way for them to be. Sometimes in the metro they will start joking around... I smile and they will try to make a conversation, I saw blacks with white’s whites with Latinos... what a nice thing.
France immigrants?? The Arabians... as far as I am concerned they don’t have a history of slavery, massacres, kukux clan, but they behave like animals... I am not talking about the old Arabians that came to France busting their hump working all day so they can raise they kids in an European nation... I don’t talk for all of them. I have Arabian friends... but a great number of them behave like ass at #$%s They have no manners... even Arabian people say that. they push people o the street they smoke *&&^ on the trains, I have seen people fighting cause of that, I don’t know what is the idea behind pushing...
no wonder France was against the Iraq… the intention was good believe me; I hate that stupid war… but they have as much interest as USA on the oil, there is so many middle east people , Muslims, that they could built a second Mecca right here in downtown Lyon city. What an hypocrites, and the thing that most made me furious was the time Alvaro Uribe came to talk for the European community, a bunch of French just popped out of nowhere screaming cocaine leader, narc president… it hurts me, cause I was born in 1977, in the 80’s guerrilla got strong and presidents like Betancourt, Turbay were all famous for their stupidity, in my teens 12-19 I had to live with the bombs from the drugs cartel, the worst time and most violent since April 9 1949 when gaitan was killed (supposedly with CIA help) then I lived also the period gaviria when this idiot open the economy all of sudden so the Colombian factories and companies went all bankrupt with cheap china toys excellent Japanese and Korean imported cars and the appetite of Colombians for American items. The biggest downturn in Colombian’s economy raised up to 23% unemployment although people said it was really a fake figure that possible went up to 35% and it was when I was supposed to get hired, finished university, find a job… but how? If my president was being investigated over money from drugs to sponsor his campaign? How about pastrana? Traveling the entire world and making first page appearances with the arch criminal boss of guerrilla hugging and walking almost holding hand in the jungles of Colombia? So he could win an international prize or a medal? What a fool Uribe is the only person I have memory have done at least Something about my country , so no French has the right to boo my president if they have not seen their friends or family died as a consequence of their bad habit of snorting cocaine .
The legal system? My goodness... it sucks from here to Jupiter...a simple nightmare,
To rent an apartment you must have a bank account... to open an account you must have an address on your name... not uncle's Ben address or auntie Ana... dtch dtch dtch. You better be on a lease!
To buy a subway pass! Passport, address certification, school certification, 4 pictures, to but a simple ticket for a month??????? Is all like that.... I paid 14 months rent deposit to rent an apartment!!!??? Cause! You need guarantor... even you paid for a year in advance you still need the guarantor...??? People are unfriendly and very bad at doing simple math calculations... and not to talk about the smells on the street or trains... I have this feeling that some people haven’t shower in months. there is dogs poo poo all over the streets and is becoming a mayor sanitary problem... not counting that every time you order a pike of bread or patisserie they will use a bare hand to hand you over the food and use the same money to receive the money. That is disgusting! Holidays for over a month? Business closed in summer for almost a month? 2 hours lunch brake? The immigration office? Have you seen mc Donald’s in china? Something like that…Be careful! If you happen to be in a place and the close even you are inside they have no fear in kicking you out even if you have your groceries on hand. French food? Try eating kebab or sandwich for over 4 months, I don’t think you can’t afford to eat at one of the PAUL BOCUSE places everyday for a good meal. Besides French restaurants are all over the world.

I just think United States is a fair place to live and they are trying hard to accommodate everybody to live in peace. Even thought the presidents sucks... I feel sorry for America... it's all system and its good people. Thanks USA.





(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

(^-^)/ ...como quiero a mi chinita y a mi Colombia carajo!!!...

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litost says on Aug 28, 2004, 09:12:

Yeah, France must be a pretty awful society if they get to take over a month's holiday a year... how dare they actually worry about enjoying life!!!???

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 28, 2004, 11:20:

Thanks for the interesting post, Komachi. Sounds like you've travelled and had a lot of experiences. I must admit I really have no use for the French. Whenever I would speak French to someone from France they would always comment that I spoke like a Quebecois as though it was a substandard language. God knows what they think of the Cajuns but on the other hand who cares what they think.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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kernow62 says on Aug 29, 2004, 13:44:

most sensible thing I have read in weeks pointofview you've got a grip on the situation. I design and build high end audio gear as a hobby, but like to keep abreast of the new products as they become available. China is producing some nice gear, not just mass market Walmart crap, or crappy sounding Sony, Akai, Yamaha stuff. They are gradually upping the quality of what they produce.

Went to Home Depot a few weeks back to bu a couple of bags of cement, they were completely out. Seems we sold so much production to China (trying to make a fast buck) that we don't have any left for us. China is now selling it back to us at a profit for them, same with steel.

If the US ever was involved in a major war I doubt there would be enough heavy industry left to support it. The manufacturing base has been sold to those with the lowest labour costs.

By the way when did the English language become an American invention, an earlier post referred to it as America's language, perhaps they meant adopted tongue.

Jim

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kernow62 says on Aug 29, 2004, 13:49:

Vikings from Iceland? I thought they were colonisers of Iceland, not from there?

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daver says on Aug 29, 2004, 20:38:

Kernow62,

Yeah, from what I know, they came from mainland Scandanavia and colonized in all directions.

What I find funny, is they were the first white people to land in Canada (about 1000 years ago) and even they found too harsh, as they either starved to death and/or went home. Yey my ancestors thought Canada would be a great place.... Grrrrr now I have to live in the cold...

Dave

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 29, 2004, 22:27:

I should know since I'm living in a town that Vikings built, back in 980,
http://sal.sigtuna.se/turism_english/default.asp?Doc=SeOGora

Anyway, Vikings came from all Scandinavian peninsula, Denmark and even the west coast of Finland, the original nordic branch of the germanic tribes that migrated northwards populating also Germany.

They populated Iceland (Norwegian Vikings), conquered England (Danes) Normandy etc.etc...the Swedish Vikings sailed eastward down to Constantinople and the Mediterranean, and on the way, founded the Russian national state.

Gotta go to work,
cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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