The Red Cross Vest, Part II

romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 09:16:

Uribe lying to the people we're used to... I found most impressive was that 1200 pictures and over 60 minutes of video were taken, I guess they do want to make a movie out of this Rambo mission. Then, the people and helicopter in that posing picture reeks of army, so the guerrillas must be retarded if they were actually tricked by this and then one begs to ask why it's taking Uribe so long in an all-out war to take down these retards, or else.....

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 09:37:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 09:38:

august says on Aug 5, 2008, 09:47:

Typical Uribista response to this post (as seen in previous threads):

"Man, you lefties (communists?), we righties (fascists?) think that the ends justified the means and that neither principals nor long term consequences matter. The government and the guerrillas are the same so they should be held to the same standard. Presidents are allowed to change their stories as long as they´re going to change the constitution for their own benefit. I love Uribe. All the positive change in Colombia that has occurred since 2002 can be contributed directly to him. Lefties, why do you hate Colombia so? We righties, love it!"

turnmeon, well done, you hit all the main points, as expected.

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romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 09:48:

turnmeon has no clue what he's talking about...
The registry can't afford a referendum... apparently all the money went into military equipment that is useless and lobbying against opposition both in Colombia and US... keep up

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ietk says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:04:

Well everybody lies, Uribe, Farc, Chavez and you, yes you! (whoever is reading this), if they use the red cross symbol by mistake, choice or any reason you could find inappropriate the fact is they were freed and period, what else can you do about it? do you want to apologize to the Farc for deceiving them? they already apologize to the red cross, you want the hostages to be returned? please gimme a brake.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:09:

Here is some video coverage in English. Brian Andrews on RCN.

http://www.canalrcn.com/newsinenglish/

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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Sam Salmon says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:46:

" wtf is wrong with all this leftish chit heads, the farc attack red cross ambulances all the time in colombia, but nobody say chit, but when the goverment do something good and frred this people, some leftish pieces of ???? make such a big deal about it, go tell that in the face of these free men now, go and tell them hey the tv station symbols are more important to me than your freedom"

My thoughts exactly-people cry and whine after the fact but when the hostages were in captivity they did nothing but make excuses for FARC.

' a la orden!'

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romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:48:

The FARC does not deserve an apology, how could you even consider that it`s ludacris, they are criminals... much less return hostages, my God the thoughts through some people`s heads.
A government should not, need not, lie to its people. and that`s all it is. Or should they? forget about why YOU lie, I don`t lie it`s a choice I`ve made...

So is nobody else finding it particular how much footage was taken of this rescue?

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:51:

Sam Salmon says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:52:

"So is nobody else finding it particular how much footage was taken of this rescue?"

No-that's SOP now with video being so widespread-ever seen Youtube?

' a la orden!'

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romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 10:55:

CG thanks for the vid link...

Cool how they already made a soundtrack to go with the video, eh?

Did the news anchor say there's still 2800 hostages? and there's hope for all this shit ending soon.... I don't get it

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 5, 2008, 11:36:

Santos has said RCN has deliberately betrayed the nation and endangered everyone taking part in the operation by showing the video. The official wearing the red cross vest won't be receiving honors as it was previously planned and according to Santos the entire government was framed by this man. I am sure the govt did not have access to this footage prior to its broadcast ( funny ha ha).

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/justicia/2008-08-05/traicion-a-la-pat...

'Traición a la patria' fue filtración de vídeo de 'Operación Jaque' a canal de televisión
El ministro de Defensa catalogó así el hecho y se mostró indignado con los responsables que entregaron el material al canal RCN, ya que han puesto "en peligro" a sus compañeros.

"Yo no le voy a contestar si pagamos", dijo Clara Elvira Ospina (La W)
"Todo lo que salió al aire es lo que tenemos", dijo Clara Elvira Ospina (La W)

Comunicado de Presidencia con respecto a la revelación de los videos de operación 'Jaque'

Revelan video completo de la operación 'Jaque'; Gobierno se molesta por filtración del documento
El Ejército ya tiene indicios de las personas que cometieron la infracción, agregó Juan Manuel Santos, quien dijo que serán sancionadas "drásticamente".

La cadena RCN difundió el lunes por la noche en exclusiva una grabación sobre la preparación y ejecución del operativo que resultó en la liberación de �ngrid Betancourt y otros 14 secuestrados en poder de las Farc.

En ella revelaron detalles que no conocía la opinión pública hasta el momento y que dejaron en una situación comprometida al Gobierno, en particular en lo referente al uso indebido del logo de la Cruz Roja Internacional durante la operación.

Días después del rescate, la cadena internacional CNN reveló que el Ejército utilizó el logo de la Cruz Roja, lo que representa una infracción al Derecho Internacional Humanitario.

Tanto el presidente �lvaro Uribe como Santos señalaron en ese entonces que el uso del logo se produjo momentos antes de que el Ejército se encontrara con la guerrilla, pero en el vídeo de RCN se muestra que el capitán que se puso el peto con el símbolo de la Cruz Roja lo utilizó durante la sesión de entrenamiento.

"Lamentamos mucho que esto haya sucedido", dijo Santos en rueda de prensa en San José del Guaviare, en donde realiza un consejo de seguridad y presenta un balance de sus dos años de gestión.

"Esa fue la verdad que se nos dijo en el momento en el que el presidente y yo informamos a la opinión pública sobre el particular. Con el vídeo de ayer (lunes) se muestra que la realidad era diferente, que el logo se utilizó en el comienzo de la operación".

Santos agregó que el militar que utilizó el logo dijo que sólo se puso el peto en el helicóptero que los llevó hasta la guerrilla.

El general Padilla de León indicó que creyeron en la palabra del oficial porque "en la vida militar la palabra es muy importante" y que incluso el militar juró por su hijo que solo sacó el símbolo del CICR cuando sintió miedo.

Por esto, dijo, el oficial será sancionado y no se le entregarán las condecoraciones anunciadas, como la Cruz de Boyacá.

Mensaje a los medios

Por otra parte, Santos pidió excusas al resto de los medios de comunicación que no tuvieron acceso al vídeo.

"Como lo hemos dicho en en varias ocasiones, nuestra política, en la medida de lo posible, es darle a todos los medios la información de forma rápida y oportuna. Cuando se presenta este tipo de filtraciones no es producto de una prden o intención deliberada".

Lo sucedido en esta ocasión fue un "acto de deslealtad".

Presidente también indignado

Horas antes, el mandatario emitió un escueto, pero duro comunicado en el que calificó de grave que no se dijera toda la verdad en las primeras investigación que hubo sobre la operación, a raíz del informe de CNN.

A su vez, considerpo que "es grave que integrantes de las Fuerzas Armadas filtren noticias de manera clandestina y sin coordinación con sus superiores".

Comunicado de la Casa de Nariño

"El Presidente reitera la necesidad de permitir que todos los medios de comunicación tengan igual y oportuno acceso a las noticias más importantes.

Es grave que integrantes de las Fuerzas Armadas filtren noticias de manera clandestina y sin coordinación con sus superiores. Además, es grave que en las primeras investigaciones sobre la Operación no haya salido a relucir toda la verdad".

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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august says on Aug 5, 2008, 11:42:

It´s pretty interesting though, I mean yes, it´s undeniably a good thing that the hostages were freed, but what would it take for the folks like turnmeon and Sam Salmon to accept that it might not have been a "perfect" rescue and that perhaps Uribe isn´t purely a positive thing for Colombia? Lying to the world wasn´t quite enough (as the commander in chief he IS responsible for the misinformation of his military subordinates); as Pedro points out, compromising protocols of war wasn´t enough; so what would it take to bring a little gray into this strange little world of black and white that´s been constructed? Or, perhaps, we should just let things play themselves out.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 5, 2008, 12:01:

I'm willing to give Uribe the benefit of the doubt that he was misled or uninformed about the precise facts surrounding the Red Cross symbol (which, FWIW, I still think is a tempest in a teapot). But I really have to shake my head that the Colombian military hasn't figured out that if they TAKE video like that they should pretty much assume that it will leak. And if you can't deal with that, then don't take the pictures. This is a hard lesson to learn.

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quantum says on Aug 5, 2008, 12:09:

Yep, everybody chill out and give it time. U cant keep the truth bottled up indefinately. If it turns out that the whole thing was an orchestrated public relations exercise, (and well paid for) then in time it will come to the surface. Spielberg couldnt have concocted a more masterful screenplay than this one. Surely Uribe intends on using it to his greatest advantage and we all know what that implies.......

quantum

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Sam Salmon says on Aug 5, 2008, 12:17:

"what would it take for the folks like turnmeon and Sam Salmon to accept that it might not have been a "perfect" rescue and that perhaps Uribe isn´t purely a positive thing for Colombia?"
We know where your sympthies lie Comrade August.

"Red Cross symbol....is a tempest in a teapot"
Exactly!
Sad that the Colombia haters/fellow travellers here seize any excuse at all to criticise.

" If it turns out that the whole thing was an orchestrated public relations exercise, (and well paid for)"
WTF kind of lying gargabe is this?

' a la orden!'

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august says on Aug 5, 2008, 12:27:

Indeed, my ruthless, morally baseless heart and soul lie in the jungle with my freedom fighting brethren. I generally prefer to keep that to myself, Sam Salmon, but thank you for using your excellent logic (critical of Uribe = supportive of the FARC, which reeks of W Bush logic circa 2002) to bring that to the light of the public.

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pobrecito says on Aug 5, 2008, 13:02:

I do not remember the name of the PBHer who has as signature :"Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!"
Jajaja.
Do you (it is something like casco)?

No mas Tasco66 !

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romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 13:27:

La verdad "es una infraccion"... Por Dios que gobierno tan nefasto y corrupto....

I do find it strange that RCN was so gun-ho to publish this... or were they? I wonder how long they've had this video for....? What did Uribe and coalition do to piss off Ardila Lule??? though in a sense it seems like this 'treachery' was unintentional, by the way the news were presented, at least in the English broadcast that I saw online. Strange indeed.... I'm so puzzled because this makes even JM Santos look bad, that was being touted to follow U eventually. Or are they making way for Uribito (Arias)? Anyways I'd be surprised if this offense even brushed the 90 to an 89 given the response and non-response from the Uribistas on this board, Oh Colombia INMARCECIBLE

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 13:34:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 15:49:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 15:52:

romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 16:22:

the lives of 15 people are less important than the lives of millions that the red cross saves... simple as that. you don't even care that your president lied to your face? you lack dignity, I'm done, I have no time for someone with no self-respect.

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 16:55:

turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 5, 2008, 17:03:

15 Abr 2008 ... Farc atacaron ambulancia de la Cruz Roja y asesinaron a soldados heridos, asegura el Ejército. Los dos uniformados eran transportados.

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=13533&cp=2

Las FARC incendian una ambulancia cuando se desplazaba hacia la población.

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:UHyMusfIP-IJ:www.clacso.org.ar/dif... las farc incendian ambulancia de la cruz roja&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

VIOLACIONES DEL DERECHO INTERNACIONAL HUMANITARIO POR PARTE DE LA GUERRILLA.

http://www.hrw.org/spanish/informes/1998/guerra5A.html#guerrilla

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poco says on Aug 5, 2008, 17:05:

Romy Quote: the lives of 15 people are less important than the lives of millions that the red cross saves... simple as that. you don't even care that your president lied to your face? you lack dignity, I'm done, I have no time for someone with no self-respect.
==============================
Romy your attitude is hopeless. People with attitudes like yours populate the earth,, most are below,, in a box, dead but principled.

Who knows ? Maybe they share the space with their wife, children and relatives ?

Actually,, the most interesting aspect is that the FARC thought Chavez was the primary player.

What a bunch of crap about nothing,, who cares that someone might or might not have told Uribe about the damn red cross vest,, really who gives a shit anyway.

Do your believe Ingrid should be in captivity because the rescue didn’t go down like your principles mandate?

Colombia went into Ecuador and shot Reyes dead. Ecuador should have said “good shot� when he was killed,, but Noooooooo, they need to make a big deal out of it,, when the facts are,, they should have helped but,, in case you don’t know,, Ecuador helps the FARC.

What now? Uribe or others need to be aware of EVERY little detail ?

The lives of who ? Do you think the Red Cross can no longer serve the world ? My opinion is this,, if some nation wants to tell the Red Cross they can’t help Aleve the suffering of people in their territory then that is just toooooo bad for their citizens. My guess it will hasten the removal of their jerk-off idiot in charge of such matters.

You’re proposing the Red Cross be an instrument to aid kidnappers, killers, thieves, mass murders, etc. to SAVE their populations ? I think the Red Cross should have helped with the release and guess what,, they might have turned a blind eye.

This is called plausible deniability.

You know,, this is similar to what has happened in Colombia the last 60 years.

Not the Red Cross per say but the idea of appeasement or neglect of the countryside. Hundreds of thousands have died,, yes,, HUNDREDS of thousands. So tell me,, how many were saved ? Hundreds ?

The current thinking seems to be,, let one live so thousands can die.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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romy says on Aug 5, 2008, 19:41:

you guys still don't understand that it's not about FARC... hopeless... have a good night dreaming of Cano and co.

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dwmte7 says on Aug 5, 2008, 20:32:

double yawn...............................................

patriarch

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Dolfi says on Aug 6, 2008, 00:55:

So if the FARC don´t respect the red cross nobody else has to?

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Cerealkiller says on Aug 6, 2008, 02:22:

That's the thing Dolfi, people on this forum think that the FARC are so legitimate they should play by the book, just like any other political institution...I haven't been able to get my head around it either.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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august says on Aug 6, 2008, 06:31:

Exactly, very disgusting. That´s my point.

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august says on Aug 6, 2008, 06:34:

Maybe you, Jack Jason, Poco, turnmeon and Sam Salmon will be able to grasp the problem as explained by the Center for International Policy´s Adam Isacson (http://www.cipcol.org/?p=647#comments)

"Colombia is trying to emerge from decades in which too many - narcos, corrupt politicians, paramilitaries, those who supported them - accumulated power and wealth by acting as though the law did not apply to them. Only by strict adherence to the rule of law - with no exceptions, even in politically difficult cases like the Red Cross emblem’s use in Operación Jaque - can Colombia show that it is truly leaving that dark past behind."

Basically there´s no room for "ends justify the means" thinking when a government is attempting to build its legitimacy. But maybe you guys disagree.

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brano says on Aug 6, 2008, 06:53:

people! get a life! wearing a fake red cross vest and saving lives of kidnapped people? aaaaah, i'll take it if the kidnapped person would be anyone from my family. im happy that colombia is doing better economically and safety wise. i just dont understand how you can debate so much on the "red cross vest " issue. seriously...

"I can remember when the air was clean and sex was dirty."

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Aug 6, 2008, 09:37:

Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 6, 2008, 09:39:

Now the lawyer for the two FARCers captured in the rescue operation claims they were tricked by the use of the Red Cross logo. It's a novel legal theory but I don't think it'll work.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gGziKj_tTZtx5JSbMMGMhRkYcK3A

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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romy says on Aug 6, 2008, 09:52:

Red Cross: Colombia brokeGeneva Conventions
Use of the Red Cross symbol in a military operation violates the first Geneva Convention because it could damage the relief group's neutrality in conflicts, endangering medical personnel on the battlefield who are using the red cross for protection....
She said it is now up to the Colombian government to take action against those responsible for misusing the symbol.

See http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/06/news/Red-Cross-Colombia.php



I wonder who's head is going to roll? Who gave the order? The soldier cannot possibly be the scapegoat, it wouldn't be just to a man following orders, but chances are he will be the only to take a hit... I have little faith in justice at that level...

FARC lawyers using this is a bunch of BS, who even has the guts to represent the FARC in court?

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 10:06:

How many times does the Colombian government has to apologise to the lefties for not having authorized the release of the hostages through a Piedad-Chavez show or with a bloodshed rescue?

This is what this is all about…

It appears that the lefties will only be satisfied if Uribe returns the hostages to the Farc

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 10:10:

pobrecito says" do not remember the name of the PBHer who has as signature :"Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!"

That quote is not from me, this is what Ingrid Betancourt said after she was released...

You can make fun of her as much as you like, I don’t really care jajajaja

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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romy says on Aug 6, 2008, 10:12:

Red Cross demands Colombia clarify use of emblem
"If authenticated, these images could clearly establish an improper use of the red cross emblem, which we deplore," the agency's deputy director of operations, Dominik Stillhart, said in a statement. "We are in contact with the Colombian authorities to ask for further clarifications."

Falsely using the Red Cross symbol, which represents the neutrality of the aid group, is against the Geneva Conventions as it could put humanitarian workers at risk when they are working in war zones.

Colombian Defense Minister Juan Manuel Santos said he and other high-ranking officials were not fully informed about the details of the mission. He has called for an investigation into how the video of the mission was made and then leaked.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06442558.htm



Good thing it leaked, why investigate it? I would ask they encourage it... Also, I thought taking these videos (at least according to Sam Salmon) was SOP, why then would they need to investigate how the video was made? hmmmm fishy fishy...

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 6, 2008, 11:16:

Again, a tempest in a teapot.

I wonder if those whose panties are in such a twist have any evidence that the people planning the operation knew about the prohibition on the symbol? Was it a deliberate misuse or inadvertent?

I see so many violations of the Geneva conventions going on around the world, really serious ones, like involving civilians in conflicts, use of torture, etc, that it's really hard for me to get upset about some Colombian commando's disguise in an operation that is one of the most amazing things we've ever seen.

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 11:24:

Since the Farc already does not respect the Red Cross, how is that going to change anything?

Yep, a tempest in a teapot

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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romy says on Aug 6, 2008, 12:02:

so is there a list of laws/rules/agreements that government is allowed to break?
Should Colombia drop out of Geneva if it doesn't agree with it?

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pobrecito says on Aug 6, 2008, 13:39:

I think that tasco66 is a troll.

No mas Tasco66 !

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 14:40:

What is the worse offence Uribe could do to our dear PBH leftie friends???

Free Ingrid and the other hostages without a single gunshot being fired!!!

That really got them upset, jajajaja

Their struggle to portray Uribe as a violent man has been shattered by one of the most successful rescue operation in history.

The laughs just keep on coming…

Now when is the movie coming out?

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 14:43:

pobrecito please tell us under which id you used to post here before you were banned? Jajajaja

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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tasco66 says on Aug 6, 2008, 14:50:

This is a little remider for pobrecito:

jajajaja

Ingrid Betancourt hails Colombian military rescue operation

Ms Betancourt, who was captured in 2002, and the three Americans held since 2003, were rescued along with 11 Colombian soldiers in a dramatic and bloodless operation when a Colombian military team posing as rebels removed them from the jungle by helicopter

Ms Betancourt said the hostages did not know that their new captors were Colombian soldiers in disguise. The soldiers made the group board a white helicopter with their wrists bound, saying they were being transferred to another rebel hideout. It was only when they were in the air that the chief of operations said "We are the national army and you are all free." Ms Betancourt said: "The helicopter almost fell because we started jumping. We screamed, we cried, we hugged. We couldn't believe it. "This is a miracle.... There is no historical precedent for such a perfect operation."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy also thanked Mr Uribe and called on the Farc to end their "absurd" struggle.

“The operation was absolutely impeccable," Ms Betancourt told Colombian radio just hours after she was freed, as she described the ruse played by Colombian soldiers on the FARC rebels. "They spoke and dressed like the guerrillas," she said, adding the operation began at dawn, when the hostages were told they were being transferred.

Some of the elite Colombian soldiers who took part in the operation had disguised themselves as rebels, even wearing T-shirts bearing the picture of legendary reolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara, she said. The hostages only realised that they were being rescued when they were in the air and one of the soldiers pretending to be a guerrilla shouted out: "We are the Army of Colombia, you are free." The rescue is a political and military coup for the Oxford-educated President Alvaro Uribe. Backed by Washington he has made the defeat of the Farc, who killed his father, the cornerstone of his government.

http://www.la-destra-storia.net/news.php?Progressivo=366&Titolo=Ingrid Betancourt hails Colombian military rescue operation

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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gatogris says on Aug 6, 2008, 21:32:

What about the guys in Sweden who have a patent on those Che T-shirts? Or Guevara's descendents in Cuba? Don't they deserve a few bucks for copyright infringement? Or maybe they should throw a few bucks in the kitty to the soldier-boys for product placement.

Using the Red Cross symbol for military missions is clearly uncool, and the bandwagon crying foul would be a lot bigger if Ingrid wound up with her intestines in her hands and the mission was botched. But success quiets a lot of critics, thus it has always been, so while the critics here win a moral victory in some sense, it is probably Pyhrric at best from a historical point of view.

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pobrecito says on Aug 7, 2008, 02:18:

"Their struggle to portray Uribe as a violent man has been shattered by one of the most successful rescue operation in history.
The laughs just keep on coming…"

I shall not feed the troll.

No mas Tasco66 !

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pobrecito says on Aug 7, 2008, 02:24:

It seems that it is more an US success than an Uribe success and that the gringos gave orders to the colombians:

"Los estadounidenses llevaban cuatro años trabajando en el asunto a través del envío de fuerzas especiales, expertos en negociación de secuestros del FBI, aviones de inteligencia y hasta el "visto bueno", un derecho que se reservaron hasta último momento por estar de por medio la vida de tres estadounidenses.

Incluso, a comienzos de este año, E.U. envió equipos adicionales a Colombia, muchos de ellos fuerzas especiales (7th Special Forces Group), que se adentraron en la selvas del Guaviare junto a comandos colombianos e instalaron equipos y cámaras de televisión en ríos y quebradas."

"Fuentes en Estados Unidos confirman que expertos Boínas Verdes de las Fuerzas Especiales fueron distribuidos en grupos de 2 y 4 hombres para que apoyaran las labores del Ejército colombiano en "misiones de reconocimiento" en un área del Guaviare.

Los equipos que instalaron, los cuales se activan con el movimiento, enviaban su señal a los aviones de inteligencia y a la central en la Embajada de E.U. en Bogotá, donde cientos de personas estaban trabajando para obtener la libertad de Thomas Howes, Keith Stansell y Marc Goncalves."

"A una semana del 'Día', el embajador William Brownfield pidió explicaciones al Gobierno colombiano, que solo se las dio cuando todo ya estaba listo y para solicitar su visto bueno. Tras consultar con la Secretaria de Estado Condoleezza Rice y el vicepresidente Dick Cheney, Brownfield dio el sí."

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/justicia/2008-08-07/revelan-detalles-...

No mas Tasco66 !

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