THE QUESTION – IS IT SAFE TO GO TO COLOMBIA?

simplicia says on Mar 11, 2004, 13:15:

I totally agree! I am an American and spoke little Spanish when I arrived in Colombia three years ago. I have since been back and forth without any problems. Stay on the beaten paths and you will be fine. Especially if you are mixed in with other Colombianos.

simplicia

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jbmcvey says on Mar 12, 2004, 01:17:

Is it safe to live in Miami? Yes...ask a colombian, if it is safe to live in that "rathole" they call Miami:

3. Miami, FL
Miami's violent crime rate is the highest in the nation, with especially high incidences of robbery and assault. The murder rate is also the highest in the nation.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 12, 2004, 12:21:

safety is relative Yes, of course, I wouldn't argue that Colombia is relatively safe to visit or even to live as a foreigner. I wouldn't go overboard, though, praising the safety issues or comparing Colombia to other places in the world. I would also point out that I have actually lived in Colombia, not just visited, in safer and happier times, it seems now. I have trekked the wonderful country outside the big cities, walked on the mountain paths in the middle of the night under the stars, waded in the rivers, explored the Pacific beaches around Buenaventura, travelled in buses and cars. I always said that I never felt concerned for my own safety in Colombia (I'm a European female), but in the last ten years or so, the situation has changed. I wouldn't venture outside the big cities now, cannot enjoy the wonderful scenery the way I used to before, and really regret not to be able of wandering off the beaten paths. To go to MacDonalds and watch cable Tv I can do at home, I don't have to go to Colombia for that.
I'm not worried about being conned or robbed, I can take care of myself, know the ropes and speak the language, even if I don't have the typical Colombian looks. However, the situation has become so much more complicated over the years that on my last two, three trips to Colombia I have felt uneasy about my safety, and have stayed in the cities except a holiday in San Andres.
cheers,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Gator says on Mar 12, 2004, 13:03:

Sr, Camilo nailed this one. Bravo for your answer, Camilo. I and my wife live in Colombia and get very, very tired of the reaction from people when we visit the USA and tell them we live in Colombia. Eyes grow wide, jaws drop, and a look of utter amazement crosses the face. Then come the words, "Colombia! ColoMBIA!, COLOMBIA!" "In SOUTH AMERICA? Isn't that dangerous?" My answer is usually, "Nope, If I will withdraw money from an ATM in downtown Miami, or ride the subway in NYC then I know real danger."

Answer this question truthfully, why would anyone want to kidnap 99.9 percent of the people who frequent this board? My advice if you are that worried don't go. It's not a vacation if you feel you have to look over your shoulder all the time. Seek local advice, don't wander into bad neighborhoods, leave the Rolex at home and keep out of certain areas outside of the cities. Believe me the vast majority of Colombians genuinely like gringos.

Camilos best advice, "Foreigners have suffer from this conflict, but read their stories, some were at the mountains, some others at small villages away from the cities, so trust the people who are inviting you and give the Colombian people a chance."

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 12, 2004, 15:17:

why I had a dejá vu experience. Didn't I read this previous post already?

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ColombianoX says on Mar 12, 2004, 19:36:

"Colombia! ColoMBIA!, COLOMBIA!" "In SOUTH AMERICA? Isn't that dangerous?"

To this I would respond, "No, the Colombia in Asia, you dumb at $$!

"Eyes grow wide, jaws drop, and a look of utter amazement crosses the face."

Hmmm but I bet no one would react like that if you told them you lived in Israel, for example, and that's another country where bombs go off all the time! Why is that?

ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 12, 2004, 23:57:

I find it fascinating that you believe Colombia is not as safe now as it used to be, Desideria. Any Colombian that I have met, including my wife and her family, says that the security situation now is much better than it has been in the past. All sorts of things that were not possible to do or were fairly dangerous like driving from Medellin to Bogota or taking the night bus to Cali are now possible. Fifteen years ago my wife's family had to live with armed bodyguards and now they do not. So I would have to say that the situation is dramatically improved.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 13, 2004, 02:00:

it was much safer Cowboy,
I'm talking about the time before the narcoguerrillas, before Pablo Escobar, before mass kidnappings. The good old days, with M-19 as the main bogeyman, mid seventies (you weren't even born then, right?) I've had the good fortune of living in Colombia in times of relative peace and safety, thtat's why I know what I'm talking about.
The situation is not dramatically improved. It's a little better, the rest is Uribe propaganda whose aiming to change the constitution so that he can be re-elected.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 13, 2004, 11:29:

The time you are talking about is a lot longer than 10 years ago. That would be more like 30 years ago and you're probably right. I know that you are no fan of Uribe but the Colombians love him. And if you speak to them, yes, things are dramatically improved over a few years ago. Back in the 70s, "the good old days", things were probably a lot different but we have to start from where we are and where we are in Colombia is a world of narcoterrorists. I was born in 1954 and my wife in 1960. She has lived through more than most people experience in several lifetimes.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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SiV says on Mar 13, 2004, 12:49:

Safety and Uribe's popularity Cowboy,
you only have to look at the statistics to see that the security situation has progressively worsened, -not counting the narco-madness of the early 90s (Escobar, Gacha, Cali Cartel etc.). Homicides, whether political and due to the civil war, or to "common delinquency" have all risen steadily. The same with kidnappings and other terrorist acts. Additionally, the conflict has changed from being what traditionally used to be a primarily rural conflict to increasingly involve urban areas: obviously, where the majority of the Colombian population live. On a positive note, like you state many of the national roads are safer now than recently under Pastrana, although, according to many friends and family, they were safer 10 years ago.
Also, be careful about broad-sweeping statements about Uribe´s popularity, there are many sectors that are seriously affected by his policy of Democratic Security that are most definately against his strong-hand policies, the indiginous peoples, campesinos, and the confusion of the different branches of the State, members of the judiciary, human rights workers etc. Besides, popularity alone is not the greatest indicator of the success of the govt. or its strategies, especially in Colombia, where the media is more open to manipulation than in Europe (and the States, I imagine). Still, nearly everyone I´ve talked to agrees he´s generally a better president than Pastrana and Samper.
SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 13, 2004, 18:09:

safety and Uribe's popularity Not everybody in Colombia loves Uribe. A lot of uneducated people do, but that's because he's showing more muscle against the guerrilla than what Pastrana The Wimp did. His connections and magnanimity towards the paramilitars do him no favors.
Cowboy, as I stated before, I was talking about the time before the narcoguerrillas, that would be mid-seventies. I've been in Colombia three, maybe four times in the past five years and I can only say the safety has been on the decline.
I chose to live somewhere else since I had the choice and felt responsible fo the upbringing of my family in safer surroundings, yet I rue the ever-present decline of the safety in Colombia, since I still own a home there and would like some day be able to live there.
regards,
Dd

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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litost says on Mar 13, 2004, 20:09:

Dd,

A lot of very well educated people also support Uribe, and that's the important thing, he's been able to bring people of all economic situation and political beliefs together under the desire to live in peace and security... of course, he is not perfect, but don't insult us the vast majority of colombians for supporting him saying we are "uneducated" because that is what your comment suggests.

Or is it that anyone who thinks differently than you do can't possibly be an educated person?

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 13, 2004, 22:56:

Well, Desideria, I must agree with you that I still do not consider it safe enough to live there. My wife still has her house in Medellin and someday I would like to retire there. Based on my five trips in the past year and the opinions of those I interact with, I would have to say the situation is improving. And I have yet to meet anyone in Colombia who is not completely behind him.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 14, 2004, 03:29:

uneducated litost,
I apologise. It was unfortunate phrasing from my part. I meant to point out that many supporters of President Uribe come from the lower stratas and amongst the uneducated people, who are easily swayed by strong-arm politics. I am sure that just as many come from amongst the educated, wealthy and relatively young people in the cities. The ones that don't support Uribe or support him only partially tend to be (left-leaning) intellectuals. And yes, I have heard many voices critizising Uribe for his heavy-handed methods, for his partiality towards paramilitaries, his economic policies. But no, I think he's one of the better presidents Colombia has had in the last 20 years or so. A good president, but not perfect. Nobody is. Not even me:(

(PD. I confess that I formed an opinion about Uribe supporters during the presidental election campaign reading all the comments his supporters posted in Colombian forums, Caracol, the main newspapers' and such. The most vocal supporters were very ignorant,agressive and obviously, with little education.)

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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camilo says on Mar 14, 2004, 09:38:

I dont want to get in to controversy but saying that "many supporters of President Uribe come from the lower stratas and amongst the uneducated people" its wrong. The supporters of president Uribe are the people who has suffer the violence in this country. you can say what ever quoting and foreign ONG panflet, but go to the people, what the quality, the quantity of the work of this men. Colombia is a lot safer than under the governmet of Samper and Pastrana, and It will be getting safer. Tragedies like the one in MAdrid this week or like the one in the Club el Nogal cant be happening again and that only shows that every country needs leaders who cant step up and face terroris,, fight it and defeat it.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 14, 2004, 11:06:

controversy I think a little controversy is absolutely necessary to fuel a discussion. How much fun would this be if we all agreed on everything?
I already corrected my statement which was unclear in the meaning and could have been interpreted that "only the poor and/or uneducated people support Uribe" which is of course untrue. I dislike, however, the aggressive and belicose tone of some of his less-priviledged supporters. Reading all those opinions in Colombian forums made me think about that old proverb about having friends like that who needs enemies. I want to point out that my comments about Uribe's popilarity are not derived from some "foreign ONG pamphlets" as camilo says, but rather day-to-day contacts with real, live Colombians in Colombia.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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RobertoNY says on Mar 14, 2004, 13:11:

Increasing crime in Barranquilla I agree that during the last 10 years the level of safety in Barranquilla has dropped precipitously. I never had fear of the guerillas there. I have always feared the common criminal. Those are the ones that will shoot without muttering a single word. One may say they won't fight for any amount of money they have. However, many criminals don't even want to give you the chance to. If confronted, I would give up any possession I have with me without a fight. I can replace inanimate objects. I fear getting popped before I have a chance to surrender my possessions.
One must only read the local newspapers to see that crime has taken a turn for the worse. Barranquilla is definitely a party town. The newspapers have an affinity for stories about Carnaval and futbol. So, when I read so much about violence in those papers, then I know things have really gotten bad.
Now, you must understand that I'm not drawing conclusions from sitting on the sidelines in the U.S. and reading Colombian newspapers online. I spend 3 months per year in Barranquilla. I have seen these things first hand. Fortunately, I haven't been on the receiving end of any viloence. Unfortunately, I know some that have been.
There are an increasing amount of scams targeting tourists in Bararnquilla. The latest is one where they have someone in the airport focus on a target arriving from Miami. They telephone two accomplices on motorcycle just outside of the airport. Those accomplices stop the car or taxi the tourist(s) is(are) in at an opportune time using pistols as their weapon of choice. They are robbed of their money and credentials. The money obviously creates a big problem for a visitor. However, imagine the nightmare created when your passport and other credentials are stolen.
When we travel we are not as aware of our surroundings as we should be. If you're on vacation you really are oblivious to much of what goes on until it involves you. I'm street smart, having grown up in the inner city. I can see trouble from a mile away. However, if the trouble holds a gun, I'm defenseless. The only thing I can and will do is comply with the demands made by any given criminal that puts me in that position.
Just remember, everything is fine until something happens to you. Saying that you didn't see any crime and reporting the city safe doesn't mean that crime doesn't exist. That's just being ignorant.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 14, 2004, 15:20:

You need to be with someone like my wife, Roberto. Everything is always "muy tranquilo" for her. Even living in Medellin during the Escobar years, being on buses hijacked by gunmen, shot at from other cars in traffic, life is always calm and peaceful for her. She reminds me of Mr. Magoo.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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RobertoNY says on Mar 14, 2004, 15:45:

Yo soy tranquilo I am the calm type. However, I have a family to take care of. Believe me, I'm a great communicator. I have talked my way out of many situations. But, if I found myself face to face with a gun wielding madman while I'm with my wife and children, it would be difficult to remain calm.
A woman from Europe mentioned that she could take care of herself in situations. Well, that's true to a certain extent. I have seen violence here in NY that most people have never witnessed. I think the more street smart you are the worse it is psychologically. That's because you know anything can happen at any given time. Believe me, you have no defense against a drug addict with a gun. Most of the time they don't want to ask questions. They do what they have to and move on.
Barranquilla is in a state of emergency right now because of the security situation there. While murders have decreased in other large Colombian cities, they have increased dramatically in Barranquilla. I'm not comparing Barranquilla to any U.S. city. ALL large cities around the globe have crime. My point is that Barranquilla's crime rate has increased over the past few years. That's a fact.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 14, 2004, 20:55:

Roberto, what is going on in Barranquilla that it has gotten so bad? Even Medellin is much better than it used to be although it is still quite dangerous.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 14, 2004, 22:02:

same thing in Cali The murder rate in Cali has been up some 30% in the last two-month period according to El Pais of Cali. That's not an improvement. Yes, I can take care of myself, generally speaking, but there are situations like Roberto says, where no street-smart would make any difference at all for your survival. I try to avoid those.

"Lista de cifras:

-219 muertes violentas se presentaron en enero de 2004, 51 más que en el 2003.

-610 asesinatos se registraron en Cali en el último trimestre del año 2003.

-197 de las 215 muertes violentas de febrero de 2004 fueron cometidas con armas de fuego.

- 31% es el aumento de las muertes violentas en enero y febrero frente al mismo periodo de 2003. " 2de Marzo ElPais

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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vladimiro says on Mar 15, 2004, 07:05:

5K Homicides in Medellin There were 5,000 murders in Medellin last year - a city with a 3 million population. The outkirts of the city are a no-mans land, where until last year guerillas openly patrolled the streets with masks on. The mayor of Medellin tried to make a point when he entered one of these neighborhoods to make a speach, but had to quickly throw on a bullet proof jacket and flee with his bodyguards under a hail of gunfire in front of all the media.

Uribe, sent the army in to reclaim these nieghborhoods and they were successful while the military was present in the nieghborhoods. I don't know what has happened since. The stats for Medellin are a little unfair in that these nigheorhoods are just outside Medellin and have small wars going on.

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saint says on Mar 24, 2004, 10:54:

I think Gator gives the best advice.. If you feel like you have to look over your shoulder every 5 minutes then why bother going to Colombia? I think it takes the adventurous type to venture to Colombia. I wasn't nervous before coming here. I just didn't know what to expect. I love South America. I am the type that feels safe walking down Avenida Atlantica in Rio at 3 AM by myself. I have been to Brazil over 7 times in the past year. I honestly see more shady types in Rio in one day then I saw in Cali in 10 days.

It's funny coming back to the USA. I was flying from Miami to my city and I was sitting next to a guy in first class. He was well traveled and had been all over the world. We talked about our trips. When he found out I went to Cali he looked at me like I was crazy. He went on and on about how dangerous it is. I asked if he has been there before. He of course said, "no". I asked if he knew anyone that went there. He said, "no". I asked him what he is basing his comments on. He said that he has heard it was dangerous.

Statistically Colombia has a lot of crime. But statistically so does a lot of other cities around the world. You need to practice common sense wherever in the world you go. For the typical tourist that is only in town a few days or weeks I don't think your chances are that much greater of something happening to you then many other cities around South America.

Good luck.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 24, 2004, 11:31:

safe..safer..safest I still think it's safest to stay home and turn on the telly. Lots of people in Colombia do that. Now, if you're the adventurous type you may want to go and shop at WallMart. Want to watch a football game in one of the cafes on Avenida Sexta in Cali, you'd have to be a real daredevil.
Colombia is much more dangerous to its own people than to a couple of stray gringos ogling at teenagers at Chipichape mall. Let's get real.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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ColombianoX says on Mar 24, 2004, 11:40:

VIVA CALI !!!!!!!!!!!!!! "When he found out I went to Cali he looked at me like I was crazy. He went on and on about how dangerous it is. I asked if he has been there before. He of course said, "no". I asked if he knew anyone that went there. He said, "no"."

Saint,

That guy sounds like just another ignorant racist to me. I wish I would have been sitting next to him so I could have given him a piece of my mind!

Colombianox

PROUD AS HELL COLOMBIAN

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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vladimiro says on Mar 24, 2004, 17:58:

We are all ignorant of countries we have not been to...

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George-Bush-Fan says on Mar 24, 2004, 20:26:

over 3,000 kidnappings ayear and thousands and thousands of murd Think Boy Think!!!!! 3,000 known kidnappings a year and many thousands of murders a year,even in Barranquillalook what happened in a down town shopping center last December 2003,Due want to play Russian Roulette with you life for cheap smelly women and risk your freedom,I am not saying everyone gets murdered or kidnapped but several thousand a year due thats about 10 plus a day for kidnappings and over 50 a day for murders.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 24, 2004, 21:39:

Don't you ever get tired of your ignorant rant? You even started a new thread with the same nonsense that you had written in Spanish. Cheap smelly women? There are more cheap smelly women in the USA than I will ever see in Colombia. Have you ever thought that maybe you just attract the cheap smelly type?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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saint says on Mar 26, 2004, 13:28:

No..he wasn't racist..... That couldn't be further from the truth. This was a very successful guy that traveled all over the world. I've been around the world too and we were comparing stories. He wasn't a racist. He just just making assumptions based on what others said. I'm NOT saying Colombia isn't dangerous. I'm only saying I felt as comfortable there as I have anywhere else in the world.

The people in Cali were some of the friendliest anywhere in the world. We all can't assume anything from what we hear or read. It IS good to take it into account though.

It's kind of like those guys in high school that always say some girl is so loose and easy...sleeps with everyone. The girl goes all through high school with a bad reputation and it turns out that the original guy spreading the rumor was only saying it because she shot him down.

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arturo says on Mar 26, 2004, 14:15:

camilo answer to desideria:

DESARROLLO. don't you think it's the point if colombia wants to win the peace(not only the war). it could be more efficient than "facing" terrorism...

You mention Madrid, i'm sure in some weeks we will refer to some terrific-hamas action in israel.

the socio-economic profile of most bombers/armed-groups fighters has a "no-future", nothing to loose taste, no?

Castanõ himself used this argument in some interview to justify auc's bloody exploits: killing the potential guerilla's allies.

Wouldn't it be smarter from uribe to repalce it with "killing the guerilla's growing factor". until you'll hear people saying :"since i joinded the farc i eat every day & have medical facilities" colombia wont win this war.

Maybe fumigations are part of a big develop. project?? Consieder that people has to eat what's growing on this contaminated soil, drink this water (a special thought to pregnant women). Actually in vietnam there's still a pretty high handicap-birth rate in the us-airforce 70's "fumigations" areas. maybe uribe plans a first rank "Putumayo Medical Institute of Birth Deases" in a newly renamed sick chromosom valley...Sur he wont miss the nobel prize (for medicine not for peace).

ONG panflets? ONG are not tender against garc/eln too. The point is that para are responsible of 80 % of the HRs' violations & that lots of para belonged to the army...

And dont forget the reporters...Lot of them dont want to risk their life to produce comprehensive reports. it's a huge concern for a country that pretends to be a DEMOCRACY. So under these circumstances, i wont consider the pole you use very reliable.

politically i've liberal ideas(in the US meaning), & as an italian 'm particularly ashamed of italy's facist period. when i hear my colombian friends mentionning the infamous "big brother" network i cannot give any credit or any respect to this uribe: he has a "el señor presidente" smell.

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josealves says on Apr 10, 2005, 21:36:

Bogota Just back (04/10/05)from Colombia with my dutch friend and got robbed by the police 10 am Saturday. They took all our money but left the documents. It may be safe for Bogotans but not for tourists. We found out that its susual tourists getting harrassed by the police.

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platano says on Apr 10, 2005, 22:16:

What about Popayan? Camilo,

I noticed Popayan was not listed in your list of major cities:

"If one is coming to one of the major cities (Bogotá, Cali, Medellin, Cartagena, Barranquilla, Pereira) you should be fine, those cities already have a lot of foreign presence."

Is Popayan safe? Is there a foreign presence there?

I have heard so many people say Colombia is safer now because Uribe has placed so many military in the cities and on the roads. That seems to me to indicate Colombia is NOT safe. In a safer country (Japan, for example) there is no need for a military presence on the streets.

I have been dreaming about moving to Popayan so any info about safety there would be appreciated. (Literally, last night I dreamed I was teaching at UniCauca!)

Thanks!

Platano

plátano

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calipro says on Apr 10, 2005, 22:23:

josealves I almost got robbed by the police in Bogota.

Turns out they were con artists and said they had to check the serial numbers on my cash to make sure it wasn't drug money.

Thank god the real colombian police showed up because it was three against one. The one being me!

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carter says on Apr 11, 2005, 13:26:

Josealves If you were robbed in the main square in Bogota it was probably fake police they have been doing this trick in the same location for years.

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cosmos says on Apr 11, 2005, 15:47:

robbers How can I avoid them? I mean how can I stop that if they came on me? how much can I give them? if I have something in my back pocket for that situations?

thanx

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carter says on Apr 12, 2005, 13:26:

cosmos I keep a 20.000 seperate from my other cash and hope this will make them happy. But if you have your bag, they'll want your bag and anything else they can see on you of value.

So its best to keep your valuables hidden

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