The Oppenheimer Report: Latin American Schools Don't Measure up In Today's World

scotty says on Oct 21, 2007, 04:06:

Latin Americans living in Latin America, or Latin Americans living in the States?

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 21, 2007, 04:16:

Latin America as in Colombia, Chile, Venezuela etc.

Read the article, scotty. It answers your question.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lowell says on Oct 21, 2007, 06:37:

I guess it depends on the school. Both my stepson and neice attend schools who really pile it on, Lots of homework too. Last year when I looked at my neices study book (was 4 yrs old at the time) I was really surprised. Maybe the schools for the Richies pamper them too much.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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fecherklyn says on Oct 21, 2007, 17:33:

I have to say it....I am very surprised by the conclusions of this survey...at least as far as it concerns Colombia.

I have lived and worked in Europe, Africa, Asia, the USA, Latin America and the Middle East. During most of this time I was a manager with staff under my responsibility. Thus I feel I have a fairly good appreciation of WHAT the local educational systems bring to the workplace and community life. To my knowledge, the educational standards in Colombia are excellent; amongst the best I have come across.

Ok...one has to be careful when making comparisons to ensure "they are comparable"!

So when I talk about the people who work in local offices, shops, banks, local municipality, etc., I know for the main part they are representative of the fruits of the state educational system (as opposed to elite, private education).

What have I found? The fundamentals of education in Colombia are present at a high standard and, IMHO, the educational standards are AT LEAST as high as in the USA, Europe, etc.

The public examination of the results of surveys can be a precarious past-time as much of the media has a tendency to highlight the "exceptional and sensational" rather than report the "banal". Could this be a case here?

Whatever, this report is discordant to my ears and I trust ny instincts.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 21, 2007, 17:55:

The article essentially compares the education standards of Colombia to that of India. It does not measure what people bring to the workplace or discuss the fundamentals. In Colombia I met well-educated people and some analfabetos as well.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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miamimike says on Oct 21, 2007, 20:23:

I can't say I'm surprised and here is why; I have talked to many Medical, Legal, Teachers, Nurses ect Professionals who come from Colombia(as well as other south american countries) and who want to have their University credits revalidated here in Florida towards a Degree and taking the Florida Boards. In case of most of the People I have talked to who attempted this, almost everyone had to repeat several courses before they could sit for the Exam. Some had to start over completely and just forgot about it. The only Latinos getting a Big Hand up are the Cubans, as the revalidation process is much easier/faster for this immigrant group. BTW, this Columnist Oppenheimer researches his Material well and has his facts down pat before he puts an Article to print,,,

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 21, 2007, 20:54:

"In 1960 the percentage of people who completed high school in Latin America was 7 percent and in East Asia about 11 percent; today the percentages of high school completion are 18 percent in Latin America and 44 percent in East Asia, the report says."

If this is true, it says it all. About Latin America.

In Colombia, the high school graduation rate is 32.6%. The literacy rate is up to 94%.

But still lower than East Asia.

(Boring cite with above figure: http://www.export.gov/articles/mom_col_link7.asp)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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goin_south says on Oct 21, 2007, 21:05:

in Colombia... literacy is up to 94 % ?
I find that difficult to believe.... I find it difficult to believe it is even that high in North America (EEUU)

don't know what the source is; but... probably better go back down in the basement to see if that is in fact, Veronica Orozco...

“ I would rather be a conservative nut job rather than a liberal with no nuts and no job.”

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Man Tequila says on Oct 21, 2007, 21:16:

I guess it depends how high you set the bar. The basic standard is allegedly reading a basic newspaper. I think the numbers are probably inflated across the board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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goin_south says on Oct 21, 2007, 21:27:

And, since I believe I will be in Colombia in about....4 weeks from now... who cares?

“ I would rather be a conservative nut job rather than a liberal with no nuts and no job.”

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miamimike says on Oct 21, 2007, 21:56:

Sounds like a Good Idea "I'm not suggesting that Latin American 3-year olds be subjected to excruciating kindergarten admission tests. (Even India's Supreme Court has recently set limits on that practice, arguing that it puts too much pressure on kids too early in life.)

But, at the very least, Latin American countries should start participating in international standardized tests to measure themselves against the rest of the world, and then act accordingly. Otherwise, mediocre educational standards will condemn their population to lag increasingly behind the rest of the world."

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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SamGompers says on Oct 22, 2007, 06:34:

One possible conclusion from the Oppenheimer article and the World Bank report on which it is (loosely) based: educational attainment and economic achievement are not necessarily related. For example, among OECD nations, the U.S. routinely scores in the median range for educational achievement, participation, etc. - - yet it's gdp/capita and other economic data routinely put it in the top region. Educational opportunity is a supremely important value - -but one shouldn't expect that expanding educational opportunity equals the key to success in a "globally competitive economy." (Cuba is a good counter-example here - - highly educated population but still low on the gdp/capita scale.)

Oppenheimer plays up the India contrast but a recent (2007) OECD report about India begins with the following: "There is an urgent need to improve education in India. Public expenditure on primary and secondary education is somewhat lower than in other emerging economies, but substantial private outlays result in overall spending being similar to that in developed OECD countries. Nonetheless, despite recent gains, the level of literacy is low and children receive on average only ten years of education, three years less than in many emerging countries."

Finally, OECD and UNESCO data agree that, in relation to other latin american nations, Colombia is somewhere in the middle of the pack in regards to educational participation, attainment, duration, literacy rates etc. E.g. - - Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Brasil, Peru, Bolivia outrank Colombia (50%) in net secondary education percentage, with Colombian positioned above DR, Venezuela, Ecuador, Costa Rica etc. (http://www.uis.unesco.org/TEMPLATE/pdf/ed2001/Amerique_latine_ENPDF.pd...)

GIven all the variables involved - - I don't see much to be gained from participation in global educational tests. What's the point of "knowing" that Colombian high school students aren't as good in math as Japanese high school students? This kind of "world cup" approach to education won't guide Colombia to creating more social opportunity - - even if Uribe comes up with some kind of plan to allow Colombian students to transfer to Japanese schools.

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miamimike says on Oct 22, 2007, 07:40:

I don't think Oppenheimer singled Colombia out for Criticism but all of South America,,,

On Sept 17, 2008: Senator John McCain said, as he had many times before, that he believed the fundamentals of the economy were "strong."Hours later he backpedaled, explaining that he had meant that American workers were Strong.

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happy camper says on Oct 22, 2007, 09:44:

seems to me as if the Oppenhiney report may have it bassackwards!! The USA is now where the educational standards are dumbed down. Anyone else share my opinion? I live in Medellin and am often amazed at the number of people here who (while maybe not fluent) are able to communicate in a number of foreign languages. I understand linguistics are only a part of one's education but it is after all an important part.

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SamGompers says on Oct 22, 2007, 11:11:

Wouldn't be the first time that Oppenheimer got things ass backward - - see his 1992 book, "Castro's Final Hour: An Eyewitness Account of the Disintegration of Castro's Cuba." That's a "final" hour that's been dragging on for more than a decade since he wrote the book . . .

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Cerealkiller says on Oct 22, 2007, 11:49:

I agree with the fact that state funded schools in Latin America are quite crappy. At least in the Latin American countries I have lived in anyway...However, I did high school in L.A and got 1200 on SATs and 36 IB points, so it couldn't have been that bad.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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goin_south says on Oct 22, 2007, 22:51:

I think you can't compare 'education vs. educatioin' from one culture to another..... on certain levels, yeah.. but on others... not.

“ I would rather be a conservative nut job rather than a liberal with no nuts and no job.”

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goin_south says on Oct 22, 2007, 22:51:

And, I don't have time to expound on it. Figure it out for yourself.

“ I would rather be a conservative nut job rather than a liberal with no nuts and no job.”

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TioJoe says on Oct 28, 2007, 04:13:

Miami Mike -- wife is an occupational therapist and not only took and passed the National Board but has a license to work in the that profession in Florida. She did not have to take additional classes other than english proficiency tests. I think it depends on the school you attend -- not all colleges in Colombia had degrees that were acceptable for transfer. Colleges must seek that certification for thier students. The other sobering reality is high paying fields intentionally do not make it easy for foreign nationals to obtain a job in the USA unless there is a severe shortage.

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