The New Sins: Caleños Have More to Confess Now

msaucey says on Mar 13, 2008, 08:24:

Desi, I think it would be the same for the majority of the world....

But, in the catholic eyes, aren't we always sinning, that's why there's always a long line for confession.... From what I remember...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

Monpirri says on Mar 13, 2008, 08:28:

Desi, Catholics or the Vatican are an interprise.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 08:37:

When the Vatican cleans up its own messes, we'll be glad to listen to their opinion.

Colombiche says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:02:

I think trolling should be listed as a sin.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:04:

I believe the great majority of Colombians still take their spiritual and moral counceling from the Catholic priests. I believe (despite the sins of Vatican or the Church) that priests can still play a major role in guiding the believers away from drugs, social injustice, making too much money, sustainable lifestyle, ecological footprint etc.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

kalder says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:12:

Mention the 'C' word and the hackneyed, 'right-on' sneers come trotting out like day follows night.

Organised religion has many faults but, when it comes down to it, how many atheist liberals are out there running hostels for homeless crack addicts?

Or running refuges for war widows in the Congo?

Or manning the mobile health stations of Fundación EUDES?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:39:

I don't consider that trolling. I had actually written my true opinion about the Vatican, but decided to tone it down so as to not offend anyone. However, I find it a bit hard to take moral advice from a corrupt organization that has perpetuated massive social injustices for the better part of two thousand years. I won't say anymore on the subject out of respect for the beliefs of others.

Simon says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:41:

Right on Kalder, it seems that Catholic-bashing is one of the last accepted forms of discrimination. It goes on all the time on PBH.

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:48:

Who's trolling. Colombiche?

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Colombiche says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:50:

colombiano gringo when I brought up trolling I was doing it as a joke but not as a response to what anybody said. For the record, I believe the catholic religion is oppressive, plants fear n people's hearts, discriminates, judges and is not evolving with the times. I grew up in an ultra catholic paisa family, I should know.

I also totally concur with you about the vatican, they are a rotten enterprise.

Simon, it's not catholic bashing, people have a right to express their opinions about religion.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

arthur brode says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:51:

i think having too many babies should be listed as a sin

http://www.calirentals.net/

Colombiche says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:52:

Kalder you will never know how many atheists or agnostics are out there running shelters for the poor because when they do it they don't do it in the name of a religion or a religious charity. personally, when I do good, I do it out genuine concern for the pain of a fellow human being, not because I'm expecting a reward in the afterlife.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2008, 09:54:

I'm 100% non-religious myself but I believe the Catholic church can have a significant role in Colombia due to its strong influence and grip on people's minds to educate the people, especially the young, towards peace, social justice and sustainabilty.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:03:

Good point Art, but isn't birth control a sin?

Simon says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:05:

Sure, people have the right to express their opinions about religion but it's interesting how the only religion people usually target here is Catholicism since it's the religion of most Colombians. And most comments towards it are negative because they come from xenophobic non-Catholics and bitter former Catholics.

"You want to talk to God? Let's go see him together, I've got nothing better to do."---Indiana Jones (Raiders of the Lost Ark)

kalder says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:13:

A shelter for the poor is run under the aegis of a larger organisation. For the life of me, I can't think of a liberal/atheist one that does so. But I could name plenty of religous ones that do.
And I should imagine that easing the pain of others is the primary motivation of the Catholic/Christian/whatever aid workers; as the original article suggests, social justice is at the very heart of Catholic thinking.

Simon's remark about 'Catholic-bashing' seems perfectly reasonable as shorthand for the elitist and rather snooty mockery of Catholicism that is oh so fashionable these days.

And, for the record, before I scoot home for dinner, I'd very much like to know who exactly Catholicism is oppressing. Cubans? North Koreans? As the atheist Stalin once asked' 'How many divisions does the Pope have?'
Planting fear in people's hearts? Again who? The elderly, isolated, ill and destitute to whom it offers community, solace and hope?
Does 'discriminate' mean expecting the membership to play by the house rules? Shocking!
It judges? Horror! It actually offers shipwrecked humanity moral guidance, which they are free to accept or refuse as they see fit?
And they don't move with the times? And that's bad? Fascism, environmental spoilation, rapacious capitalism, nationalist tribalism, family-hating 'liberalism', materialism, terrorism, moral relativism, addiction...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:14:

If it makes you feel better, I find all religions/superstitions absurd. However, I respect the religious beliefs of others as long as they don't try to impose them on me.

For example, my catholic wife does the sign of the cross when we pass a church and my protestant ex-wife would pray whenever she heard or saw an ambulance. I personally find both acts to be of no real value, but if it makes them feel good and neither has requested that I follow suit, then who am I to criticize them?

kalder says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:16:

Learning about which variant of religious rubric favoured by your good lady wife makes me feel a whole lot better. Thank you.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 10:39:

I was actually addressing Simon's post, but thanks for playing.

kalder says on Mar 13, 2008, 11:13:

Oh, right you are. Cheers mate.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 14:03:

I heard about this in the news yesterday, now that I look at the specific list....very broad. Is this in Black & White Terms? I hope there are more specific parameters or are people yet again going to be subject to whomever interprets it....depending on the Sign of the Times?

Genetic modification - of Vegetables/Plants? Humans? Viruses?
Carrying out experiments on humans - Define these parameters?
Polluting the environment - No more camfires/fireplaces folks! Is graffitti considered pollution?
Causing social injustice - Define these parameters
Causing poverty - Intentional? Unintentional? Accidental? How about when you cause personal poverty by overspending?
Becoming obscenely wealthy - define this...
Taking drugs - Does this include homeopathic, FDA/Govt approved, Illicit, Herbal?

I think I am even more confused with this list.....I understand the intent and idea....a bit vague and would not be suprised if it becomes a topic of debate.

ooops! ....Did I say that?

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2008, 14:41:

The Catholic Church, seized with alarm at the "new sins" which have arisen out of the "unstoppable process of globalisation", has proclaimed a revised list of mortal transgressions.


Bishop Gianfranco Girotti, head of the Apostolic Penitentiary (the division of the Catholic Church responsible for all matters pertaining to the sacrament of confession) has informed the faithful that sin is no longer simply a matter of individual transgression.

In the age of globalisation, says the bishop, sin possesses a "social resonance".

"You offend God not only by stealing, blaspheming or coveting your neighbour's wife," declared Bishop Girotti, "but also by ruining the environment, carrying out morally debatable scientific experiments, or allowing genetic manipulations which alter dna or compromise embryos."

Drug-taking and dealing, social injustices which engender poverty, and "the excessive accumulation of wealth by a few" are also included among the new sins which Bishop Girotti's Apostolic Penitentiary has set alongside the more familiar targets of Catholic concern – abortion, contraception and paedophilia.

This new list of "deadly sins" marks a remarkable transition in the life of the Catholic Church.

From the rise of socialism in the second half of the 19th century, till the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991, the principal threats to the survival of Catholicism (and Christianity in general) were universally thought to be the advance of atheistic and materialistic ideologies of the Left.

Pope John Paul II devoted his entire life to the overthrow of "godless communism", and its demise in Russia and Eastern Europe (his native Poland especially) is widely regarded as the most significant event of his reign.

The great irony, of course, is that the Catholic Church was fighting the wrong "ism". It wasn't communism that threatened the Christian faith, but totalitarianism.

Spawned by the rise of mass industrial societies and the revolutionary advances in science and technology, the totalitarian regimes of Hitler and Stalin were perhaps the greatest historical manifestations of that deadliest of the seven deadly sins – pride.

In the place of God, these two dictators erected a new deity: man himself. In the quest to bring forth the new Aryan/ Soviet man, all means, no matter how bestial, were justifiable. And if, in order to construct their National-Socialist/Communist heaven-on-earth the ground had first to be cleared by unleashing Hell itself, then so be it.

With the destruction of Nazi Germany in 1945, and the final collapse of the Soviet empire in 1991, the Catholic Church must have breathed a mighty sigh of relief. Now, at last, a new age of Christian piety could begin. An age in which the seven heavenly virtues – chastity, abstinence, temperance, diligence, patience, kindness and humility – could, finally, come into their inheritance.

ONLY slowly did it dawn on the Church that something had gone terribly wrong. Though atheistic communism had been vanquished, and the Nazi ubermensch lay buried, the totalising impulse had, if anything, grown stronger.

That "unstoppable process of globalisation" is said by its proponents to mark "the end of history". The whole world, they say, now belongs to liberal democracy and free markets. In the place of those discredited and defeated collective idols, they've raised up a new deity: the sovereign individual.

Too late, the Catholic Church realised that while it had been waging its relentless struggle against godless communism, Satan had slipped behind it. While it railed against collectivism, and purged its ranks of all those who spoke of "the preferential option for the poor", the master of misdirection had been busy setting up his throne in the boardrooms of the great corporations; in the film and television studios of Hollywood, and among the electronic impulses of cyberspace.

The seven deadly sins have become the banners under which this new totalitarianism marches. The Apostolic Penitentiary looks out upon a world afire with wrath; a world grown fat with gluttony and avarice; a world dumbed-down by envy and sloth; a world enslaved to lust; a world betrayed, conquered and ruled by the besetting sin of pride.

In vain does Bishop Girotti condemn the sins of this new, and very far from pious, age. The world he is attempting to save is too far gone in its sinning to do more than laugh at the very concept of moral transgression.

Capitalism means never having to say your sorry.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4439705a1861.html

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:18:

Thanks Desi

Working on their image...keeping up with the Times.
Curious, as they took such a beating from the Press and Lawsuits et al..

Is the Roman Catholic Church Still the Wealthiest Church in the World?

( Hmm .. wonder if the parameters of obscenely wealthy is not considered a sin if you are not for profit)
Of course, I am not beating the institution up, I have seen many of their programs assist those that are truly in need, unconditionally. Not as compartmentalized as some other practices in sharing their wealth.

ooops! ....Did I say that?

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:24:

"Is the Roman Catholic Church Still the Wealthiest Church in the World? "

I was sort of wondering the same thing? However, I think that these days, a lot of the US "megachurches" epitomize "obscene wealth" more so than the catholics. One such church in Houston spent $75 million to renovate a basketball arena to be their new church. They are one of those prosperity gospel churches that teaches that Jesus must not love you if you don't have a Mercedes, so you better give us some money so Jesus will love you.

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:40:

Try askng the Mormans for money....unconditionally - without a discussion on conversion

ooops! ....Did I say that?

billyb says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:43:

I thought the richest were the Scientologists ;)

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:47:

LOL - Horray for Hollywood!
These guys are the worst scam artist cult of all!

ooops! ....Did I say that?

msaucey says on Mar 13, 2008, 15:55:

I grew up 2 blocks away from the Scientologist main building in Hollywood.... Man, talk about brainwashing these people... It's just plain amazing.... I never understood their fascination, L Ron Hubbard is a GENIUS! Everybody gives up their material possessions and put on a blue uniform and do some type of work for no pay.... I don't get it.... But, the upside is that you could always feel safe in the streets because these people were up 24/7, so there was always someone around....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 16:02:

Saucs: You know he committed sucide? (hubbard)...at least that what I was informed.

ooops! ....Did I say that?

CatGirl says on Mar 13, 2008, 16:13:

BTW - The Scientologist - they require you take a personality test. Of course they would never tell you it is a requirement, it's only meant to "help" them help you. I am sure the results gives them a better perspective of how you can be used in their organization.

I was approached by a recruiter in Civic Center SFO - guy asked me where I was going and I told him I was on my way to an interview. He offered me a job and asked me to step inside their headquarters in Civic Center. I had no idea what it was. When I asked how much the pay was, he said "Well it depends on how much we make a month, it is all divided up" (???) I politely declined and told him I had bills to pay and left (not without him handing me the test).
After reading what he gave me - I realized what it was - Bad impression from the get go. Scam Artists.

ooops! ....Did I say that?

msaucey says on Mar 13, 2008, 16:14:

Oh, yeah... I think that's when they renamed one of the little streets in our neighborhood from Catalina Ave.... to L. Ron Hubbard Ave... I thought it was a stroke or something... Who knows, we avoided them like the plague... Actually, we did all ban together to get rid of a few gangs that were trying to move in....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

Monpirri says on Mar 13, 2008, 16:14:

I agree with CatGirl, the Catholic Church does provide assistance to the truly needy, among other things and I also believe that the Catholic Church is the wealthiest of all, how do you figure it out? Well, it's very easy, all South America and Central America, Europe and some parts of Asia are also Catholic, so the larger the members the larger their income or budget.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

miamimike says on Mar 13, 2008, 22:06:

Even though I'm a practicing Catholic insofar as a Divorced person is allowed to in the Church, I am unhappy with what the Church did a few centuries back in Latin America, especially in Colonial Mexico to the Natives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Spain


"To pay off the Spanish army that captured Mexico the soldiers and officers were granted large areas of land and the natives who lived on them as a type of feudalism. Although officially they could not become slaves, the system, known as encomienda, came to signify the oppression and exploitation of natives, although its originators may not have set out with such intent. In short order the upper echelons of patrons and priests in the society lived off the work of the lower classes. Due to some horrifying instances of abuse against the indigenous peoples, Bishop Bartolomé de las Casas suggested bringing black slaves to replace them. Fr Bartolomé later repented when he saw the even worse treatment given to the black slaves. The other discovery that perpetuated this system was extensive silver mines discovered at Potosi and other places that were worked for hundreds of years by forced native labor and contributed most of the wealth flowing to Spain."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush,

miamimike says on Mar 13, 2008, 22:10:

From above link:

"The role of the Roman Catholic church
The conquistadores brought with them the Catholic faith and a lot of priests, to which the population was seemingly rapidly converted. ********Because of their joint action in getting rid of the Moors in Spain, the Catholic Church was basically regarded as an arm of the Spanish government, since the Spanish Crown at the time can't be understood nowadays without considering its ties to Catholicism as opposed to Muslims and Protestantism.*********** It was soon found that most of the natives had adopted "the god of the heavens", as they called it, as just another one of their many gods. While it was an important god, because it was the god of the conquerors, they did not see why they had to abandon their old beliefs. As a result, a second wave of missionaries began a process attempting to completely erase the old beliefs, and thus wiped out many aspects of Mesoamerican culture. Hundreds of thousands of Aztec codices were destroyed, Aztec priests and teachers were persecuted, and the temples and statues of the old gods were destroyed. Even some foods associated with religion, like amaranto, were forbidden. Eventually, in some areas some of the natives were declared minors and forbidden to learn to read and write, so they would always need a government manager in charge of them to be responsible of their indoctrination.

During the following centuries, under Spanish rule, a new culture developed that combined the customs and traditions of the indigenous peoples with that of Catholic Spain. Numerous churches and other buildings were constructed by native labor in the Spanish style, and cities were named after various saints and various religious topics such as "San Luis Potosí" (after St. Louis) and "Vera Cruz" ("True Cross")."

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush,

Rubito says on Mar 14, 2008, 00:49:

If you want to REALLY learn about the catholic church and its stand on issues in the first 7 decades of the 20th century, just check out all the shit they did and said in those times.

Mussolini's Italy and Franco's Spain as well as the Perons' Argentina were totally 100% CATHOLIC. With the blessing of the church and the whole nine. The church has NOT ONCE taken a true and honest stance in favor of peoples' civil liberties. In fact, quite the opposite.

Read about the Latin American bishops' conference held in Medellin in 1968 and read about some of the shit that was said there. The church not only came out against liberation theology (which is somewhat understandable) they openly came out AGAINST agrarian reform and in favor of as wide a gap between rich and poor as possible.

Read about the scandal that happened in Quebec in the 1960s when memos between some high-ranking church officials got intercepted by the press. In these memos they were talking about the importance of keeping the poor rural people in Quebec uneducated so they wouldn't get their heads full of crazy ideas and they would stay faithul to their traditions.

In my opinion, Colombia (and the rest of the region) has had its development stunted, has suffered such gross social inequalities, injustices and strife, precisely BECAUSE it has been stupid enough to follow the church's lead. The more Colombia gets away from that and secularizes, the better off it will be. Once again, all you have to do is look at history, no big secrets here. Colombia's fortunes as a country have risen TREMENDOUSLY the more secular they get. As have Brazil's. As have just about anywhere on the planet. OTOH, show me ONE example of a catholic country that was properly ran, didn't have ridiculously unequal wealth distribution, and wasn't constantly on the verge of collapse.

Look at Hapsburg Spain vs the other areas of the time. Even with the advantage of the vast wealth being carted in from the New World, they were constantly defaulting on debts. Their economy was in a PERMANENT state of depression worse than the 1930s! The bottom 20% literally were starving in the streets and couldn't find work, the top 20% thought they were above work and didn't lift a goddamn finger, and the other 60% couldn't work for 1/3 of the year because of some dumb religious festival or other. It was just about the most dysfunctional and unproductive society the human race has ever corrected OTOH look at Florence under the De Medicis, Renaissance Holland, and Britian. Three powers that told the pope to go eat a dick, and PROSPERED. Not just minor prosperity, we are talking unbounded success here. Florence during the Enlightenment was considered the most beautiful and well-run city the world over. The Dutch took a bunch of swampland and turned it into fertile ground, went on to conquer lands all over the globe, made numerous technological inventions. The British like them, in their heyday had the world's highest standard of living, and created the largest empire the world has ever known.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Rubito says on Mar 14, 2008, 01:01:

As for this utter nonsense about the "new sins", the big problem we have on Planet Earth today is TOO MANY PEOPLE. NOTHING else matters compared to that. Either we cull the herd ourselves or Mother Nature is going to do it for us. She's sharpening her fangs right about now, and she makes Grendel's mother look like a toy poodle!

The church's view on things like the family is LAUGHABLE in this day and age. No single organization is doing right more do make things WORSE for the whole human race, and to prolong anb intensify the agony and troubles of future generations. Sustainable means STOP HAVING CHILDREN. Simple as that. Purple wombats will fly out my ass before the day anybody in the church grasps this obvious concept!

What we need to do right now is figure out how human beings are going to SURVIVE the next 50 years on the planet without getting wiped out. We need to do that with every last bit of technology at our disposal. If we start becoming Luddites at this juncture we are DEAD, we will go the way of the dodo bird and the dinosaurs. We need to start focusing ourselves on INDIVIDUALS, and thinking what would it take to turn us back into a race of SURVIVORS again, instead of a race of beings who would be wiped out if the electricity or the oil or the gasoline stopped flowing! Because it WILL stop flowing one day, guaranteed. It's NOT SUSTAINABLE!

Funny thing though, a bit of revisionist history to say the church was against the Nazis. Our current pope was quite the happy little Hitler Youth member himself! You don't see too much official objection on the vatican's part against the National Socialists pre-1943 or so!!!!

Many of those "drugs" those morons would forbid us are actually potential tools for expanding consciousness, and a BIG part of how the human race can repair and SAVE itself.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Chriscan says on Mar 14, 2008, 03:38:

I'm not cahtholic but the new sins promote good values and I am pleased to hear something good coming from the vatican for a change.
It's interesting how many churches are speaking out for the enviornment - something I see as an important spiritual value.

************* WARNING ************* my words often come from my ass

Ctg Bound says on Mar 14, 2008, 06:59:

If you want to become rich, start a religion or hook on to an existing one, they are all the same, a few manipulating the majority.

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2008, 08:29:

I agree with this, "I'm not catholic but the new sins promote good values and I am pleased to hear something good coming from the Vatican for a change."
But I do not think the Roman Catholic Religion is the salvation to Colombia, nor we want atheists, witches and people without any good values to preach the new laws.
Colombia would be better off if it was less Catholic, have more faiths present, something similar to the US.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

scooby_1781 says on Mar 14, 2008, 08:44:

When the city of San Francisco decided to drop its program for people infected by HIV and aids patients because it was costing too much and was bankrupting the city. The Catho;ic took it over and completly funded it with health care, housing & counseling making it an example for all others. There is also an organization called the St. Anthony Foundation that feed at least 1000 people twice a day, and has temporary housing for just as many. They also run several houses for men and women trying to overcome the bondages of drug & alcohol abuse, and never charges anyone a dime. But does anyone give them any credit instead they say they hate gays & are discriminatory. Thats just two examples in San Francisco there are many more just in that city alone, & they do the same thing all around the world. So get your facts straight because it sounds like you who criticize and attack the church are the ones who are narrow minded and abusive.

"SEMPER FI"

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:12:

"Many of those "drugs" those morons would forbid us are actually potential tools for expanding consciousness, and a BIG part of how the human race can repair and SAVE itself."

Which forbidden drugs will save the human race?

Not crack, surely?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

Man Tequila says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:17:

Can I still crank up my Ipod?

All the old sins have cool names (I want to call my first kid Superbia). The new ones need cool names too. I'm glad the church is not obscenely wealthy and never causes social injustice. I have heard that an alcoholic is the guy who drinks more than his doctor. ;)

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:17:

That'd be some conspiracy, if crack was actually good for you and the Vatican/Freemasons/CIA/NASA were keeping the fact to themselves.

Like the Woody Allen film where men-of-the-future discovered that alcohol and tobacco were good for you.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:23:

But I'm sure crack isn't what you're talking about.

Mescalin? LSD?

But I'm not so sure I'd want my consciousness raised thank you very much. La Camp's is at a particularly lofty elevation and I can't see what good it's done him ;)

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:24:

Anyway, you can't beat the good 'old' sins. Lust, for example, is an absolute corker!

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:26:

I could go for some sloth right about now. My greed has had me working really hard to feed my gluttony and pursuit of obscene wealth.

Man Tequila says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:29:

Sloth is classier when you call it "Acedia".

"I'd like to stitch you up. But. You know. Acedia. (shrug shoulders)." ;)

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 14, 2008, 09:41:

Well. As long as I get to sleep really late tomorrow, we can call it "pereza", "vagancia", "ocio", or whatver else. Actually, my personal favorite is the Mexican "hueva". As in "Uy que hueva!" ;-)

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2008, 10:29:

Scooby_1781, I do give some credit to the Catholic Church, but they are not the salvation to Colombia.
Colombia does not need atheists, witches and people without any good values to preach the new laws, furthermore, Colombia would be better off if it was less Catholic and have more faiths present, something similar to the US.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 14, 2008, 10:51:

I kind of liked the new list of sins....it sound like something we have been teaching our kids about for a few decades at least here in the North. Actually, our kids are more aware of the new ones that the old ones; avaricia, acedia, gluttony, superbia, luxuria, ira and invidia sound like brand names for Japanese cars nowadays.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 12:24:

"Funny thing though, a bit of revisionist history to say the church was against the Nazis. Our current pope was quite the happy little Hitler Youth member himself! You don't see too much official objection on the vatican's part against the National Socialists pre-1943 or so!!!!"

With respect old bean, that's utter bollocks. If anyone'd care to consult the relevant academic texts -Burleigh, Kershaw, Gilbert etc.- rather than the populist, sensationalist stuff, it would soon become apparent that Catholicism and Nazism were daggers drawn. Or, as the Jewish Mr. Albert Eistein put it in a Time Magazine interview in 1940:

"Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth. I had never any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced to confess, that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly."

And if a hunt for the truth through a trawl of the texts daunts, may I humbly suggest a quick 'Wikipedia' to ascertain the facts about the Pope being involuntarily drafted into the Hitler Youth. Or of the complex reality of life under Mussolini, and its nightly punch ups between Catholic youths and the Blackshirts who insisted upon pissing on the walls of Milan cathedral...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2008, 13:05:

Yep, the Catholic Church has a dark history, for example, many years ago they did not want anyone to read the bible because in the bible the truth was there but it wasn't until Martin Luther showed up.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

kalder says on Mar 14, 2008, 16:20:

To which I can find no riposte...can we not just talk about hookers? Please?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

Rubito says on Mar 15, 2008, 11:49:

I will look into what you stated, kalder. Probably gonna be early next week because i have NO time on the weekends. But frankly what you posted looks like bollocks to me! I have a lot of PERSONAL info about the current pope, and also from what I know of my own family's history in Italy (shameful to say the least), it just doesn't jive. Hopefully this thread doesn't get buried before then!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Rubito says on Mar 15, 2008, 11:51:

Monpirri, how do you DEFINE "good values"? If they are not those of the church than where does the standard come from? It seems kinda useless to say the church are not the salvation of Colombia but still follow their values. Conversely, why would anybody reject the church's values but still respect the church?

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2008, 12:05:

Good values is someone who does want to prostitute all the females, good value is someone who does not encourage a guerrillero to kill the pastors, good value is someone who does not want to rob others, good value is someone who has a faith vs. one who does not because the individual who does not have a faith, he or she thinks they are Gods, consequently, they have their own values formulated in their own lawless mind.
Good values is someone who encourage marriage vs one who just wants to be a looser.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Rubito says on Mar 15, 2008, 12:21:

PROVE IT! Why are those such good values?

Let's start with marriage, what's so damn good about it?

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:19:

What's so great about having faith?
Are people who believe in some kind of God (Jehova, Allah, Wakan Tanka) better people than the ones who have no gods?

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:36:

The one who do not believe in God they think they are Gods and they think they are always right or neutral. They are more prompt to break all rules and for them to kill or to steal from another human is more acceptable than anybody else who fears God.
Also, they do not follow any Commands but their own superficial grandiose ego.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:45:

Perhaps they follow their own inner voice, their consciousness to guide them I do not need any Commands to distinguish the right from wrong?

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:48:

Yeap, Hitler and others with similar minds followed their own inner voice.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:53:

No and this is not going to lead anywhere either.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

cali373 says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:53:

When the Catholic Church admits to alls wrong doings which include torture, slavery, social injustice, supporting the excesses of the land owning elite, etc. Then maybe!!! I will listen to their opinions.

Smile if you are a thinker!

cali373 says on Mar 15, 2008, 14:55:

"The one who do not believe in God they think they are Gods and they think they are always right or neutral"

Definitely an opinion, but interesting.

However the ones that Do beleive in God, many seem to think they are the current messiah. Oh and they are always right.

Smile if you are a thinker!

cali373 says on Mar 15, 2008, 15:00:

Not sure where this belief came from, that people who are aethiests or those don´t believe in a high being at all, should somehow be the running social programs.

Smile if you are a thinker!

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2008, 15:02:

Not only do they run social programs but they also run both Colombian websites.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2008, 21:07:

co.blog and pbh!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

Rubito says on Mar 16, 2008, 00:54:

Monpirri the main problem with your line of reasoning is you make the ASSUMPTION that we can properly fulfill ourselves and lead worthwhile and useful lives simply by following a static set of rules. Except for the real world is DYNAMIC, not static. So every time you think you have the rules all figured out, the environment has changed and everything needs to be reworked.

Desi sort of has the right idea. We need to develop our own inner voices that ACCURATELY guide us. Doing this is far from easy though. Thinking you are a god may lead to the danger of mistaking your own ego for god, and lead to something like a Hitler, but it's also the only way out! In other words, if you think you're a god, you could succeed or you could screw it up trenemdously, if you let other people dictate your life for you you are GUARANTEED to screw it up!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---