The National Health in England

Cerealkiller says on Jun 30, 2007, 09:23:

Youre wrong. Unless youre coming for more than a year you need to buy private insurance. Also, to enter the UK for more than 6 months you need a recent chest xray.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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miamimike says on Jun 30, 2007, 10:51:

Dogman, why do you say "Don't get Ill" in Britain?? When our Cable Laying Ship(Military Sealift Command-merchant marine)was in Southampton, England our Captain needed an Emergency Appendectomy and he was rushed to a local Hospital(where working class folks go to) His operation was a Sucess, the Hospital was clean, staff vey polite and efficient. I remember him telling me on a Visit to his room that even though he offered to pay(and he had the $$ to do so) they refused to take his money! When is the last time you heard that here in the USA?? LOL At the time, an Appendectomy here in the States, in a like sized town, would have been minimally $15,000,,so it can't too bad,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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curramberochris says on Jun 30, 2007, 10:52:

Dogman....saying that. I would much prefer to be in england if I had an accident that here....i have medical insurance here but the whole system it doesn`t really fill me with confidence.
The whole ambulance ringing thing here scares the hell out of me!!!

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friendsbogotalondon says on Jun 30, 2007, 11:16:

What happens when someone (a visitor) gets sick in England, then? Does the hospital refuse to treat such folks? He bought some sort of insurance plan here in Colombia that covers him in England, but they would only let him buy 3 months, and he plans to stay 7-10 months.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 30, 2007, 11:53:

you should be able to get extended cover. Assist does it. If you get sick here and not entitled to NHS treatment, they will treat you if it is an emergency but you will be charged and they'll bill you. Also, the option of private medicine is always there. London has plenty of private surgeries, but a visit to a private GO is 80 pounds.

Dogman, you have a very bad perception of the NHS. I had an emergency and was taken to my local hospital where they performed surgery on me (appendicectomy) and I cannot complain about the care. I have been in hospitals in Colombia, US, Germany and UK (I am a sickly person)...and the treatment and attention i received was excellent. Hospitals are not pretty and food is shit but people are highly qualified, treatments are top notch and the bill is 0.00. Try getting that in the US.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Alma del Norte says on Jun 30, 2007, 16:20:

As someone who has, (and ocasionally continues to), work as a Paramedic on ambulances and response vehicles in London, I can tell you that you will always receive the best medical attention from the NHS, IF you are actually ill. I have met very many people who were not, but demanded and to some degree received, emergency medical attention. In reality I believe it is unlikely that as a foreigner a bill for healthcare will ever be enforced, (let me know if you know differently). You are more likely to be overtreated in a country where you pay for treatment, which may not feel it at the time, but has far more repercussions

La vida es una rutina

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 30, 2007, 17:36:

I agree in compare to the USA we are soooooooooooooooo lucky

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miamimike says on Jun 30, 2007, 21:30:

Friendsbogota london: you question was answered in my earlier post to an extent "was in Southampton, England our Captain needed an Emergency Appendectomy and he was rushed to a local Hospital(where working class folks go to) His operation was a Sucess, the Hospital was clean, staff vey polite and efficient. I remember him telling me on a Visit to his room that even though he offered to pay(and he had the $$ to do so) they refused to take his money",,,that was what happened in our Captain's case-

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 30, 2007, 21:52:

Miamimike. I am going to correct you: But please, no offense met. My wife just had an appendectomy 3 weeks ago here in the good ole' EEUU. It looks like after it is all said and done, it will cost us (me), $6000. That is still a SHITLOAD of plata. But, a lot less than $15,000. And yes, that was without any medical insurance or any other benefits.

I could probably get out of paying. My wife does not have a social security number or state ID yet. They have no way to track her really (the medical system). I do have the signed affidavit of support with the USCIS, but if they can't keep track of 20,000,000 illegals, I doubt they would find us. BUT, being an honorable person, the bills will be payed. My point is, if we wanted to, we could pretty much disappear and never have anything to worry about as far as paying all the medical bills. I am sure that is what most people in similar circumstances do. I always feel like I get screwed being an honest person. But I can also sleep pretty damn well.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2007, 00:28:

Compared to the USA almost everyone has a better system :)

Robert: maybe you just have a good matrass? ;) haha

Poor but snappy

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 1, 2007, 07:18:

Generally speaking, I would think the US has the best doctors, best technology, best of all that good stuff. The actual system, costs, and access are the parts we need to correct yesterday.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 1, 2007, 08:06:

As a wise man once said "there's no free lunch." A middle class income tax rate in Europe is 40% or so (that's a UK example: 40% on anything above 33,000 pounds/$66,000 USD). In the U.S. it's either 25% or 28%. All else being equal, I'd much rather have a job with health insurance in the U.S. and let's say $1000 max out-of-pocket per year (insurance picks up the rest) vs. nationalized care and $10,000 less in income for the next 30 years. At the end of my career, I am hundreds of thousands of dollars (or more) ahead.



That said, none of the systems are sustainable. The U.S. system is not sustainable, some of Europe's systems have been in deficit for a decade or more and are only going to get worse with their aging populations, people joke about Canadian dogs getting a hip replacement in two weeks but it takes a human two years, the U.S. subsidizes Canada's and Europe's pharmaceutical bills because our drug costs are so high, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. Show me a positive or negative anecdote and I'll show you mine...different strokes for different folks...in the long run we're all dead...

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kalder says on Jul 1, 2007, 09:17:

About £250 a month is deducted from my salary and put into a compulsory insurance scheme. And that's on top of my income tax. Anyone in work has to pay into this scheme- so really we have to buy health insurance, as you blokes do.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 1, 2007, 11:26:

Well Kalder, kinda but not really. In the US there you still have the "small print" and apparently a long list of diseases your private insurance wont cover. Here in England they'll treat anything, we pay 11%of income for National Insurance but at least we rest assured that anything that happens to us will get treated.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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kalder says on Jul 1, 2007, 11:29:

Fair point.
Everything does get treated- if you win the postcode lottery.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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friendsbogotalondon says on Jul 1, 2007, 14:57:

So, if you work, money is taken from your check for healthcare? This would be true also if you are working on a student visa, as is allowed?

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miamimike says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:14:

Dogman--you still answer my question "Why Not Get sick in england",,,,

Panthdave--you or your Wife must have superior Negotiating skills; what Miami Hospital did your wife have the operation at? Reason I ask is the figure you list is about 1/3rd of the documented Average cost for an Unisured Hospital Patient. Most CITIZENS aren't even that Lucky! I would like to see that Bill though I know thats impossible!

Va href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2004-04-13-rising-hospital-costs_x.htm">http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2004-04-13-rising-hospital-costs_x.htm

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:15:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2004-04-13-rising-hospital-costs_x.htm

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:20:

Panthdave, Note the date of this USA date on healthcare costs--it was in 2004 so figure at least an increase of 10% added on to that $18,000 price for an Appendectomy. True, it doesn't show this price in Florida but Miami's price isn't much different!
====================================================================

"Posted 4/13/2004 2:41 AM Updated 4/13/2004 2:47 AM













Hospital bills spin out of control
By Julie Appleby, USA TODAY
Hospital sticker shock is hitting the USA.
It isn't just $5-a-pill aspirin. Daily room charges exceed $5,000 in some New Jersey hospitals. ********An appendectomy in California, including about two days in the hospital, has an average list charge of $18,000.*********** Nationally, federal data show the median charge for treating a heart attack is more than $20,000.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:24:

Panthdave-Here's an Average cost(usa) for Un-insured patients undergoing an Appendectomy! Its dated 2003 so again, conservatively, figure a minimum add-on Increase of 10% to the Chart's prices of 2003.

http://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb8.jsp

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:29:

Panthdave--Cost Chart from Above Link:My Op was pretty much Spot On, actually I lowballed it by probably $5000 looking at these charts!

Table 1. Most frequent conditions causing hospitalization among the uninsured, 2003
Rank Principal diagnosis Number of uninsured hospitalizations Percentage of stays for this condition that are uninsured Average hospital charge billed to the uninsured for this condition
All uninsured 1,725,400 4.5% $16,800
1 Newborn infant 188,700 4.6% $4,100 †
2 Nonspecific chest pain 61,800 7.2% $11,100
3 Mood disorders (depression and bipolar disorder) 56,500 7.9% $10,900
4 Alcohol abuse 43,600 20.8% $9,600 *
5 Pneumonia 43,300 3.3% $17,800
6 Skin and subcutaneous tissue infections 42,300 9.1% $13,200
7 Drug abuse 39,300 22.3% $9,300 *
8 Diabetes mellitus with complications 36,700 7.6% $16,100
9 Coronary atherosclerosis (hardening of the heart arteries) 36,600 2.9% $30,500 †
10 Acute myocardial infarction (heart attack) 33,200 4.4% $42,400
11 Asthma 31,800 6.8% $10,100
12 "Appendicitis" 31,300 10.6% $18,100*-------------------------------
13 Pancreatic disorders (primarily pancreatitis) other than diabetes 30,100 10.8% $18,900 †
14 Gall bladder disease 29,000 6.3% $19,900
15 Congestive heart failure 25,100 2.2% $23,200 †
16 Trauma to perineum and vulva due to childbirth 24,700 3.3% $6,500
17 Fracture of leg 24,000 8.7% $28,600
18 Poisoning by non-psychotropic medications and drugs 23,000 16.8% $12,000
19 Other maternal complications of birth and period after childbirth (puerperium) 21,700 3.0% $9,100
20 Acute cerebrovascular disease (stroke) 21,000 3.8% $38,400
Total uninsured for the top 20 conditions 844,300 (48.9%)
*Average charges are significantly higher for uninsured stays compared to privately insured stays, p‹0.05.
†Average charges are significantly lower for uninsured stays compared to privately insured stays, p‹0.05.
Source: AHRQ, Center for Delivery, Organization, and Markets, Healthcare Cost and Utilization Project, Nationwide Inpatient Sample, 2003.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 1, 2007, 23:39:

Friends if youre a student you don get taxes deducted. Does your visa allow you to work?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 2, 2007, 01:18:

I guess I got off REAL cheap then at 6 grand for the appendectomy.

I still think the US has the best doctors and technology in the world. Otherwise, why would the people with the means come to US doctors and hospitals for treatment from all over the world? Border states like Michigan, New York, Washington, have a huge amount of Canadian patients who come for treatment. They of course pay cash - and come because there is no service in Canada. They are the fortunate ones who have the means to pay cash for these outrageous bills. The costs though are scary high. Something has to be worked out. I sure as hell don't know the answer. But I still would rather be wheeled into an emergency room in an average US trauma center, than a facility in France, UK, Russia, Italy, Colombia, South Africa, etc.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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friendsbogotalondon says on Jul 2, 2007, 09:29:

The visa says he can work with permission. He was told by the British Council he could work legally 20 hours per week as a student. Does this sound right?

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InterestedObserver says on Jul 2, 2007, 09:50:

Of course the NHS isn't free...nothing is free in this life. It is also worth remembering that something like 12.5% of UK citizens have private health insurance. The NHS does generally work well though although we do all complain about it. No system that huge will ever be without problems however...

Regarding the original question...check here from The Department of Health website - http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Policyandguidance/International/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374

Generally if you are going to be a student in the UK for over six months you will have no problem getting free health care. You will have to register with a local doctor (GP) as soon as possible.

From here - "Are you coming to the United Kingdom to pursue a course of study?" http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Policyandguidance/International/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074400

"What if I should need hospital treatment?

Under the current Regulations, anyone who comes to the UK to pursue a full-time course of study of not less than six months’ duration, or a course of study that is of any duration but is substantially funded by the UK Government, will be fully entitled to free NHS hospital treatment in England. This exemption will apply to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are living permanently with you in the UK for the duration of your course. "

If you are studying less than six months it can be different although all the information can be found on there.

Hope that helps friendsbogotalondon.

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InterestedObserver says on Jul 2, 2007, 09:54:

Regarding the student visa - as long as you don't work more than 20 hours a week on a student visa then that is ok.

More info - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/StartingANewJob/DG_10026524

"
Students

If you're an international student you may not need permission to work here when you're studying. If your home country is in the EEA, or you're a Swiss national, you can work without restrictions on the type or amount of work you do.

Otherwise, you should check the visa stamp in your passport. If it says 'prohibited' you can't work in the UK. If it grants you leave to enter or remain in the UK as a student, you can work here provided you:

* don't work more than 20 hours a week during term time, unless the employment is part of your studies or is an internship
* don't engage in business, are not self-employed and don't provide services as a professional sportsperson or entertainer
* don't take a permanent full-time position"

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friendsbogotalondon says on Jul 2, 2007, 16:27:

voy a estudiar en londres por 7 meses pero no tengo visa shengen y quisiera saber si el seguro que exigen (assist card)para la visa es mejor llevarlo desde colombia o es mas facil y barato comprarlo en londres . y por cuanto tiempo es bueno adquirirlo en caso de que sea mejor en comprar en colombia gracias.

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InterestedObserver says on Jul 2, 2007, 19:09:

Me no entiendo...puede usted consiga una visa o no?

usted bueno puede usted conseguir una visa en Colombia...uk is siempre un poco caro...pero me no sé

apologías...mi español es mierda!

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 3, 2007, 13:44:

Hahaha Interested, I am glad your spanish is crap, at least i can feel like I beat you on ONE thing!!! You have managed to become my forum nemesis...with your good sources and balanced comments. This brings warmth to my heart *sighs*

Friends: No creo que sea posible conseguir un assist card en Londres, ya que assist card es un seguro de viajes y en el momento en que llegues a Londres, efectivamente habras llegado a tu destino final. Sin embargo, puedes comprarlo por tres meses y de ser necesario puedes enviar a alguien en Colombia para que lo renueve a traves de tu agencia de viajes.

Con respecto a la visa Schengen, esa es solo valida para algunos paises en Europa continental, si no la tienes pero tienes la del Reino Unido, puedes permanecer en Londres (o cualquier parte del reino unido) por los 7 meses y aplicar para la Schengen desde Londres, en caso de que quieras visitar otros paises en europa continental.

La visa expedida por el Reino Unido comprende: Inglaterra, Gales, Escocia e Irlanda del Norte.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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InterestedObserver says on Jul 3, 2007, 17:51:

Do worry cereal...there are loads of things I'm crap at...I just try to keep them hidden...

I'm sure you also beat me hands down when it comes to charm, youth and prettiness so worry not Miss Killer!

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manINred says on Jul 3, 2007, 20:44:

Hey, the NHS is one of the best in the world. My aunt has a serious condition, got a colonoscopy immediately and an MRI the next day, is seeing the specialist very soon after, no wait at all.

Priority cases are dealt with very, very well.

And my experience in Canada hasn't been bad at all, I was dealt with very quickly when I had my big problem.

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