| pbh home > > post |
Join in 7 seconds.. Existing users: sign in.
![]() |
all forums, active | friendly talkzone, travel tips, visa & paperwork, renting, selling & meetups, politics & the war, espanol
below as Sprig noted yesterday. I just wanted to say: "I told you so". Not that it was going down so much but there were so mony people on here telling everyone not to buy and to just rent. My argument back was you have to be crazy to live in a country and not have some income (rental) in that countries currency. I also would think them crazy to not own a place to control your rent. These currency moves of recent probably will reverse or at least I expect them to as the Peso is overbought. However just a perfect example of why you need to control what you can and hedge out currency moves. I bought my place and have been lucky enough to have transfered money at good rates. I was looking to invest more but now will wait and hope or a better exchange rate. Probably should continue to move money systematically as Sprig told me but since I have at least fixed my rent forever with the purchase of my condo I have some comfort with my longer term position. Imagine if the Peso did eventually move back to 800. I am sure there would be no american renter anymore. Maybe this happens and maybe we will look back at 2,000 Pesos as a great rate. I hope not but at least my rent won't go up. Now I just need enough invested to cover at the least my fixed overhead costs. People need to think these things out because if you lived in the US and had all your income in Pesos people would think you crazy.
By Brians on May 15, 2007, 05:55 in Friendly Talkzone.
|
elk says on May 15, 2007, 06:31: Rent is only a small part of your costs You make a good point, but rent is only a small part of the total cost. More important for me are the costs for daily expenses like food, transportation, and entertainment which accounts for 31.13% of my budget. In my opinion we have two problems, one being the exchange rate and the other future inflation here in Colombia. Anyone depending on the strength of the dollar will be facing both problems.
|
|
elk says on May 15, 2007, 06:36: The current exchange rate... Brians:
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 06:47: Elk my point exactly this is a compounding problem and one which I consider while weighing my decision on how much to invest in Colombia. I want to have a $ minimum invested in real estate which would cover my minimum lifestyle in rental income. Thus based on owning my own place and based on various people's budgets which I have seen. I think a pure minimum amount of rental income coming in would be $2,000,000 pesos to cover my monthly bills (not rent as I own). I would still keep my US money invested in the USA as a a balance and let that grow. I never want to be in a situation which I am going to sweat the currency moves. I can increase rents to keep pace with inflation. Just my thoughts. Now I need to decide to invest in rental properties now or wait it out an hope for a better exchange rate. I am waiting it out.
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 06:56: BTW I meant to say $2,500,000 as far as minimum expenses which as I see matches your level. Now I have an income coming from the USA also and I do plan to work teaching english to keep busy. However I want a minimum coverage in Pesos.
|
|
miamimike says on May 15, 2007, 07:23: Hey Brians You can live in a Country without having Rental income. A friend of mine(retired and now deceased) lived in Guadalajara Mexico in the late 80s early 90s. He rented at the time but had maybe $20,000 USD invested in 30 day Mexican CDs paying around 20-30% interest. This interest nicely covered his rent, food, extras allowing him to live well for his time there without any worries. BTW, I ran into American Retirees in 1994 in Bogota who at the time were very happy with a 800:1 exchange rate. Everything is reletive,,, "Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., |
|
mecca says on May 15, 2007, 07:28: mike, quick question I'm no expert on all this stuff. So, what were prices of items like in colombia back then when the peso was at 800 to the dollar??
|
|
gringoloid says on May 15, 2007, 07:36: All I can tell you is..... this has me rather concerned as a person moving to Bogota. We haven't even seen the US real estate market tank yet. Or a staggering rise in unemployment. Greenspan, from retirement said there is going to be a recession by the end of the year. I tell you one thing.......I will change direction and be in Argentina long before the dollar hits 800 pesos.
|
|
miamimike says on May 15, 2007, 07:59: Mecca from what I can remember the prices were great like a Taxi from the Airport to Hotels where I used to stay by the Old US Embassy was around $3 max, meals a couple dollars or less. My Objective even the was NOT to try and impress the Bogota Ladies as my being a Freewheeling Spender from El Notre dining in upscale restuarants with the Ladies whole family invited. I simply did not allow this to happen. . I lived up to that Image LOL and still had a lot of fun. My lodging for a couple weeks less then $150. Remember I never went to any of those Upscale star hotels like the Dann, Tequedama(sp)and never went to the Tourist traps like the Zona Rosa whose prices were geared for tourists. I smoked at the time and remember Malboro Reds less then $1 a pack. I'm not much of a drinker so little was spent in Nightclubs and Booze. I remember my whole trip for a couple weeks was well under $600. A Bag of groceries (milk, bread,ect was under $5--I cooked a lot in my room. I brought Beer and a Bottle to my room for "entertaining" purposes. A ticket on the Tourist Train was under $8 round trip. I used taxis a lot then and the cost was maybe $8 for various daily trips. "Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., |
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 07:59: Gingoloid Greenspan has said 1 in 3 chance of recession but at 1.3% GDP growth and population growth of 1.5% I think we may already be in one. Anyway a loss of liquidity from the Yen carry Trade and all bets are off and the dollar gets crushed. However I think the Peso gets crushed as well. Colombia's growth is probably more dependant on liquidity than the USA so at this point I don't see one being a counterbalance to the other. The point is there is not pure safety net but to live somewhere with no income from the source country is crazy in my book. You could be a big winner but as someone basically retired I am not looking at making big bets but rather taking less risk and having sourced income is my only solution.
|
|
Ctg Bound says on May 15, 2007, 08:20: gringoloid Greenspan said there was a one in three chance of a US recession.
|
|
expatriate says on May 15, 2007, 08:57: The USD eventually going down to zero is a real possibility. Silver bullion is the best investment I believe for the next few years.
|
|
nine inch nails says on May 15, 2007, 09:16: If gets too out of hand will do like Argentina (AR) did in late 90s and early 00s. Prices got so high there people stopped visiting and went elsewhere then it all came tumbling down hard. get down, get down |
|
poco says on May 15, 2007, 09:21: Can't eat a house I ran into American Retirees in 1994 in Bogota who at the time were very happy with a 800:1 exchange rate "Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov |
|
gringoloid says on May 15, 2007, 10:40: Yes, you are right.... I should have been more clear on the 1 out of 3 chance. But I believe he talks in "fed code", and after 20 years, everytime he said something like this, and this is the way he sends messages, (like in 2000 with the tech bust), it seems to come true. What do you think, a bad recession in 2008??
|
|
Mr. Hollywood says on May 15, 2007, 10:58: Hedging Brians, I hear what you're saying about wanting income in the currency of the country in which you're retired, but you should bear in mind that your situation is fairly unique. Most foreigners living in Colombia are there on a fairly temporary basis (a couple years) and to them the idea of buying vs renting just does not make sense or, to be honest, matter. The truth is that the currency fluctuations are just as likely to swing the other way or, if you really CAN predict those swings, you can make much more in FOREX trading than by owning a rental property.
|
|
DonCuloBlanco says on May 15, 2007, 11:23: Greenspan Also spoke of irrational exuberance when the market was at 700 and it then went like a rocket over 10K. He is not a big voice on Wallstreet but the media likes him. Calling the bubble in 2000 is a little like calling the sky blue. If he had said OK this is the top today then I would worship him. Everyone new it was a buble but no one new when it the train was going to stop until it did. Don't confuse Greenspan the Economist with Greenspan the fed chairman.
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 11:30: Mr. Hollwood I agree with you completely if you are there only for a short period of time no need to hedge. I guess my only point was when I first bought up the idea a year ago people kept replying "Crazy to buy in Colombia when you can rent cheaply" and "Too much of a headache" etc.. Anyway my point then and still is today that I am looking at a long term situation and explained back then that these events occur. However a lot of people completely disagreed with me saying they want to only keep dollars and withdraw accordingly. I also think the dollar is completely oversold and will bounce. I think that longer term the Peso will strengthen again but this move in the Peso could get reversed in two weeks. Look at last Spring. I guess my point should only be directed towards people who are looking at living in Colombia longer term. I myself am not moving to Argentina if the the Peso goes to 800 again. Rather I would just sell and stay here in the USA. In the meantime I will wait for an opportunity to invest money. Hopefully this summer if a Financial Event occurs (i.e. liquidity issue with this Yen Carry Trade).
|
|
lochdhu says on May 15, 2007, 12:01: Greenspan is also hedging heavily agiasnt the US Dollar, if this is any indication of where the dollar is going.
|
|
Ctg Bound says on May 15, 2007, 12:08: Brians You need to match outgoings to incomings, the No.1 rule any bank manager will tell you, if a person is living or planning on living in Colombia (or much anywhere else) for a reasonable amount of time, they should invest some money in something that generates an income from the local currency.
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 12:12: CTG Bound agreed other options but I think Real Estate is easiest route. Would never touch their stock market. Bond rates generally don't work well as a inflation hedge and I don't want to run a business. The problem I a have is finding the correct properties. I know that market is probably also overheated but renters will always be available there as most don't own.
|
|
|
wcarmack says on May 15, 2007, 13:02: Dollar's direction South, south, south.
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 13:31: Pastygringo Thanks for that site. I was looking at 90 day CDs in Colombia back in 1984 were 36.45%. Now that was inflation as the US topped out at around 16% on 90 day paper.
|
|
DonCuloBlanco says on May 15, 2007, 13:44: If you want to make money in Colombia in a small business a Salon is a business that is a cash cow.
|
|
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 13:59: I tell you what Colombian Iflation ran at 4.87% from January through April if I am reading correctly. That gives us an annual rate of about 13%. There is no possible way the Peso can continue this run. We will see a nice correction very soon.
|
|
poco says on May 15, 2007, 14:14: Way out of line - ie: Not Correct Also spoke of irrational exuberance when the market was at 700 and it then went like a rocket over 10K. "Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov |
|
DonCuloBlanco says on May 15, 2007, 14:19: "The Dow average was 7,000 and went to 10,000 or so but never suffered the quick drastic drops" This statement of yours is genious. Thank you so much for informing me of history. Oh and thanks for the chart. You have said nothing that contradicts what I said but that is OK with me.
|
|
poco says on May 15, 2007, 14:37: Not an attack, clarification Well I think you know I meant 7,000 and not 700. "Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov |
|
gringoloid says on May 15, 2007, 14:58: Ctg.....you say that there are many options available, not just real estate. Please tell us some of these other options. Gracias. (I'm finding it's hard to bring money into Colombia, btw).
|
|
Brians says on May 15, 2007, 16:15: Poco I think you guys agree. I understood what he meant. Greenspan was early and right. However calling market tops is not the job of a Fed Chairman. The interesting point you make I also agree with as it will be global in nature. However not because of valuations i.e. China and India have only about 5% Foreign ownership of their stocks. Those markets are really small in nature but have huge ratios based on agressive valuations. All asset classes have risen because of excessive liquidity created off of credit. Credit created from credit always ends badly. The Yen Carry trade has been a banking window for Hedge Funds to borrow and invest in just about every asset investable. If that currency moves the wrong way and that liquidity is taken out of the system then it is like draining a pool as all asset valuations fall. Now they have a trade surplus and account surplus so their curency actually should hold it's value. However I have learned in doing this 18 years the market always does what people don't expect. I am nervous about all valuations and someday this will end badly it could be next week or in 4 years. I don't know but it will be a shock to the system. Right now I just look at the dollar and can tell you that based on our research it is overvalued against 13 of the 16 emerging market currencies we follow (Not Colombia). I read an interview with a Hedge Fund manager last week were he said they were more like banks today. These type of things scare me. There is an incredible amount of leverage built up now. More so than we ever have seen. We assume all the systems work and I do believe they do but they have never really been tested with this type of leverage. We will see.
|
|
miamimike says on May 15, 2007, 16:20: Poco Inflation is Low on CERTAIN items In The USA but Not on everything to classify USA as Low Inflation. As Evidence here in the Miami Area, Inflation is superheated on 2-3 Items that matter most(next to food) to middle-low Income Miamians. Those are: Homeowners Insurance, Real Estate Taxes, Car/Medical Insurance, not to mention the cost of Gasoline. Any of these have averaged 30% increases in the last 3-4 years and I would label that runaway Inflation by any standard and Miami is in the USA,,, "Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., |
|
panthdave says on May 15, 2007, 16:50: Good Point Mike....and Good Point Dollar and Euro Down. I am happy with Colombia not just because of costs..which I live in Miami Dade County which has skyrocketed..Not getting into the Stock Market or Money Exchange, Even if the Peso goes to 1000 I will be still in Colombia or will say Medellin with my apartment I rent at this point but my problem is I enjoy Colombia and as long I have my job here in Miami the cost of living in Colomiba will not get close to Europe or Major Cities in the United States..which it won't well anything can happen.. I am happy in Colombia so thats what counts and enjoy the Country.. panthdave Miami |
|
miamimike says on May 15, 2007, 17:23: panthdave that is how I see Colombia as a place to enjoy and not really as some investment haven. I go because I enjoy it and as you mentioned, its still one of the best deals going even at the current exchange rate. BTW I was driving by the South Beach Chevron gas Station(by 5th Street and Euclid/michigan) last night Gas Prices were $3.44(rul) $3.55 (Midgrade) $3.65 (premium)Now that is inflation!!!!!!! Suck those tourists in! "Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., |
|
panthdave says on May 15, 2007, 17:38: Miami Dade County 1.5 Bedroom Condo.....Aventura Mike you know..Aventura.. I bought for 43,000 that piece of crap which my ex wife has now is 150,000 for a piece of crap.. Still for a 150,000 in Medellin you have a nice apartment. I don't need a Pablo Apartment but you get a nice apartment and new.. panthdave Miami |
|
miamimike says on May 15, 2007, 20:18: Panthdave, where can you find a Condo for $150,000K In Adventura? That is a real find in this day and age, especially in Adventura. I remember when I bought my little North Miami Condo fore $17K in '96 ; wish I would have bought a half dozen at that price. Well they say Hindsight is 20/20,,,STill with some of the foreclosures starting to pop up in Miami there will be some good Deals. Always good deals if ya got da cash and time to snoop around,,, "Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., |
|
spigrimace says on May 16, 2007, 04:56: Brians - Colombia Inflation rate Where did u get that number, because down here they are reporting about 5% - On track in the local news outlets.
|
|
Brians says on May 16, 2007, 06:15: Sprig I got the 4.87% YTD inflation number in Colombia from http://www.banrep.gov.co the site pastsygringo gave earlier in the thread. A lot of good information there. I was just reading our research this morning. Basically we still have our forecasts for Colombian Peso higher: Here they are as of this morning:
|
|
mecca says on May 16, 2007, 10:28: don't miss the huge sucking sound and US dollars are sucked out of colombia. The drop below 2000 will most probably impact any foreign investment. The sad part is that the end result will hit the guy or gal trying to find a 400k a month cop job.
|
|
elk says on May 17, 2007, 04:25: The falling peso and jobs According to this article thousands of jobs will be lost in Medellin due to the falling dollar exchange rate. Exporters have taken future orders using a 2,150 COP exchange rate. I know personally foreigners are less likely to purchase real estate here in Medellin, including myself. It's a wait and see situation. Exporters will suffer in the coming months with the continued fall of the dollar with a related loss of jobs which will effect most everyone.
|
|
panthdave says on May 18, 2007, 11:05: I would think Exporters would get Hurt... Our Flower wholesalers though here in Miami have not raised there prices just yet..I am in the Corporate and Social Event business which involves many centerpieces which we purchase many boxes of flowers from the wholesalers in Local S.Florida..Wholesalers also know if they raise prices we would look elsewhere, panthdave Miami |
More posts by the same author:
Cedula Extranjeria and Visa renew 50
Colombia robbed of beating Brazil 19
What happened to "Medellin violence hit's home" Thread?? 25
Getting frustrated with my spanish 38
How will these new restrictions enacted by the Colombian Govt. effect me 2
Why did you delete the Scooby stuff Tinto?? We are good people and finally having some fun 11
Colombian goverment annouces new measures to curb Peso rise 2
Hey DG Dollar looks prime to rally!! 62
Colombia to raise rates today 15
Want to move to Colombia this year 85
Peso at 2,609 to the dollar 25
Help with Colombian Spousal Visa 3
Americas: |
Africa: |
Asia:
|
Travel: Also: |
If you're not a part of this travelicious experiment just yet, just sign up here. It's free & easy.
About poorbuthappy | About the travel guides | Travel guide editing | Community rules
© 1998 - 2008 Peter Van Dijck, all rights reserved.