The joy of the tienda

Saltador says on Jul 16, 2007, 12:47:

I concur. I've savored many a ice cold Aguila in and in front of "El Paisita" en Laguito.
A better bunch of tienderos you won't find. (Or is that Tiendadores? Tiendaderos?)
Spanglish is fun :-)

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bostonmickey says on Jul 16, 2007, 12:51:

The realization does take a while to dawn on some of us...it took me a good year...but the tiendas are a great way to hang out in the neighborhood and meet the neighbors!

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 16, 2007, 12:54:

Been to Colombia 3 times - once for several months. I have been in a Bogota Beer Company type of place once - total. I can't stand those types of places. Give me a sidewalk cafe attached to a family's house anyday. Plastic tables and chairs, 1 mil Aguilas, picada, the other custmers are friendly and you may end up sitting at each other's tables talking, always good music, and so on. The sidewalk mom and pop cafe is one of the things I miss most about Colombia.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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juanalejo says on Jul 16, 2007, 12:57:

For an "upmarket" tienda but definitely not stuck - up crowd try Aguapanelas on 68th Avenue close to Cafam La Floresta, very good fun. Also try Aguapanelas Internacional for very good concerts and good lively crowd

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Bunyipcatcher says on Jul 16, 2007, 13:32:

Hahaha happy days! One of my first experiences here in Bogota was a tienda. No chairs in front of this place. Had to make do with the gutter. Good fun!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 16, 2007, 14:44:

BTW, you can also have the best of both worlds by drinking at a tienda IN the Zona Rosa. Cheap beer, friendly help, and lots of eye candy.

There's a lot more (and better places) in the ZR and surroundings than the B.B Co and Irish Pub.

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Leeroy says on Jul 16, 2007, 16:53:

The biggest irony of all is that the "pubs" here do not very much resemble any pub in Britain or Ireland. A traditional British pub does not have waitresses, and it does not have a bill brought to the table at the end of an evening. Furthermore, one does not go to a pub to spend significant quantities of one's monthly paycheck - rather it is (supposed to be) a relatively cheap and cheerful way of spending a couple of hours with a few drinks. No-one gets dressed up to go down the pub in England...

The Colombian incarnation of the pub, however, is quite different. People dress up, they show off, they never speak with anyone apart from the group that they came in with, and they never get on first name terms with any of the barstaff. The "pub", here, is really a type of bar - and forgive me for being pedantic, but the two are quite different.

I might conclude by saying that really the Colombian "tienda" is the British equivalent of a "pub", and the Colombian "pub" is the equivalent of a "wine bar".

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 16, 2007, 17:05:

you mean to say there might be differences between the Colombian culture and the British/Irish culture??? the world is not just clones? if i wanted to find an american style club or bar, why would i need to leave the US? it is the experience of seeing and understanding other cultures is what drives me to colombia......and i would be thankful that i find something different there, as opposed to the same old shit in the US......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Lowell says on Jul 16, 2007, 17:23:

The only bummer here is that if you want the hard stuff you have to buy a bottle. Sometimes I miss just going out and buying a couple of drinks.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Leeroy says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:04:

Chill Miguel, you are inferring negative sentiment where there is none.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:10:

sorry......if none was intended, then the sarcasm will be withdrawn....

as for me, i travel out of the US to get away from americans, and to see how the rest of the world lives.....i leave my american superiority attitude at the departing airport, and keep an open mind to learn new things.......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:19:

Damn Clavo, that was very civil of you ... though I knew you meant nothing negative by your comments.

I am like you. When I leave the US, I do so to get away from the US. Period.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:21:

well, RJ, in this type of format, some things are hard to sense....ie, humor, sarcasm, etc.....and i was never one for the emoticons and smiley faces, etc......

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Leeroy says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:37:

Cool Miguel - the first Club Colombia in a tienda is on me...

I hear a lot about the "supeior American attitude" that yanks supposedly have. The truth is that the very few Americans that I have met abroad have generally been equal as any other foreigner I have met abroad. Some are sickeningly open-minded, some are cool, and some are xenophobic. I wish I could say that "All Americans that I have met have been x, y or z" but the truth hasn't been like that. Wouldn't it be nice if all Americans acted as if they were superior all of the time? Wouldn't that be such a reassuring piece of evidence - that all Americans abroad were rude, brash and arrogant? It sure would help to appease our stereotypes of the yanks - to confirm all that we had suspected about our military and economic overlords...

The truth, however, according to my experience, is that an American is no less or more likely to be a cunt than a European. I have had many enjoyable beers with many Americans in many places - and I have thought "This guy is an arse!" just as much about Scandinavians as I have about Estadounidenses.

Americans that I meet abroad tell me that the majority of their country never travel abroad because of ignorance - and this reminds me of Britain, where I am from. The fact of the matter is that most people in the world are ignorant - the spotlight is simply on the US more, as if we all expect them to be the pillar of perfection. It is fun to point out that an American doesn't know the capital of China - but we wouldn't blink twice if (say) a Nepalese guy didn't know. I have had Indonesian students tell me that "Europe is hot because it is in Africa", it is "ok" that Indonesians tell me that - but were an American to say such a thing, it would be celebrated and triumphed as another piece of evidence of those "dumb gringos".

Where does this triumph come from? Where we all watch youtube videos of Americans acting stupidly, and somehow conclude that "Americans are stupid?". People everywhere are stupid, Americans don't have a monopoly on that.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 16, 2007, 19:46:

i hear what you are saying, and yes, not all americans are arrogant....i just refer to the many i have run across, who have very little culture-exposure beyond their city limits......its like living in a bubble for many....they fear what they dont understand....what gets me is the american who visits another 3rd world country who has not had the economic advantages and success as the americans, and then holds the foreigners to his american standards...if the foreign country does no meet his american standards, he concludes that the foreigner are deficient in some manner as a people, culture, and country...

we are all equal as humans, and to carry such ignorance and a sense of superiority by my fellow americans is really embarrassing and shameful.....and, i am very quick to point this out to these buttmonkeys........

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Man Tequila says on Jul 16, 2007, 20:31:

A huge percentage of Americans do not own passports and have never left the country. The ones that do tend to be more worldly than the ones who have never left.

Bill Bryson was on to something when he described British travellers as being either very charming or completely insufferable. This has certainly been my experience.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Man Tequila says on Jul 16, 2007, 20:31:

And tiendas are great. Wish they were legal here.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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adrimm says on Jul 16, 2007, 21:39:

Leeroy, I love your post.. it ought to be in some travel magazine...

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adrimm says on Jul 16, 2007, 21:48:

Man_Tequila - wouldn't it be nice if we could enjoy something like a bottle of wine on a picnic?

My grandparents ran a tienda in Colombia, and it still exists. It's so charming and healthy for the neighbourhood....But could it work in Canada? Personally I don't think that we can replicate the tienda in Canada.... it;s different here... Liscenced cafes and pubs will have to do...

People in Colombia live more in public spaces.. they use town squares (but not as much as in say southern europe). Plus it is so much more dense that it is viable to have a corner tienda serving neighbourhoods.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 17, 2007, 10:39:

"Americans don't travel because..."

I always find it funny when people say that Americans don't travel. While a lot of Americans don't travel abroad, or when they do tend to go somewhere like Cancun, it's worth noting that Americans travel a HELL OF A LOT in their own country. And that by the time you've travelled the distance from San Francisco to Washington DC you would have crossed about 15 different national and language boundaries in Europe.

And, really, what percentage of Colombians or Brazilians or Chinese own passports and travel abroad?

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juanalejo says on Jul 17, 2007, 14:54:

Mr H, if you take into account just the number of people who can afford it in both countries, I can assure you, percentage wise a lot more have passports in Colombia than the USA. I remember travelling next to a British Airways manager on my way to London from Miami and he told me that 60% of British have travelled outside of Europe, while only 18% of Americans hold a passport. Maybe that is why London Heathrow is most important international airport in the world.

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juanalejo says on Jul 17, 2007, 15:18:

Of course is telling me something, it tells the British are far more interested in learning from other cultures than staying in their own bubble. And that is even taking into account that they can change culture in a couple of hours train ride, yet they make an effort of going far and beyond. I know plenty of people in the UK, and it does definitelly amaze me that virtually all of their children go away to travel in their gap famous year to another continent and almost all have visited Latin America including Colombia.

And just if you did not understand my comment, I said "if you take into account just the number of people who can afford it in both countries, I can assure you, percentage wise a lot more have passports in Colombia than the USA." but anyhow if you take into account that far more people can afford it in the USA than in Colombia, it is still nice to see how you compare the purchasing power of Colombians and people from the USA.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 17, 2007, 15:34:

the "nowhere to be found" Official Passport Figures for the US are found here:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/services/stats/stats_890.html

do the math based on current US population numbers......then get your percentage, no?

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 17, 2007, 15:45:

The 20% figure is meaningless without context.

1. Until recently, American citizen travel to Canada, Mexico and most of the Caribbean did not require a passport - that's literally millions of trips/travelers that didn't get counted.

2. As Mr. Hollywood noted, not only is there a ton of cultural diversity (if that's what you want and know where to look) in the U.S. but it's 3000 miles across and has just about every geographical feature and climate you can think of from Hawaii/the Caribbean to the Arctic.

3. A disproportionate amount number of top universities and research institutions are in the U.S. They attract a lot of foreign students, fellows, researchers and instructors. Obviously, a U.S. citizen is going to be less inclined to go overseas if he/she can get a world class education at home.

There's more, but the point is, if you try to "normalize" per capita travel the U.S. might not rank all that differently from other countries. The British or continental Europe examples don't mean much because, well, ya' gotta go to a different country if you want to get off the island or you run out of road after three hours.

That said, it wouldn't hurt some Americans to get out and about more. I'll never understand why some of my coworkers go to Disney or Jamaica year after year.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 17, 2007, 16:04:

Two more things:

- The "gap year" tradition doesn't really exist in the U.S. to the extent in does in Europe. I guess that means we foist fewer smelly, blond kids with silly dreadlocks upon the world and that's a good thing in my book. ;-)

- I wouldn't put a lot of faith in any numbers from British Air, the U.S. State Dept or the World Travel Organization. With all the dual citizenships and people mixing business and pleasure, it's impossible to say with a high degree of accuracy who's going where and for what reason.

Back on track: Neighborhood Tiendas! I like 'em...I don't know what they do to residential property values but they sure are convenient.

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Frank Rizzo says on Jul 17, 2007, 20:01:

There is no doubt that the US has an incredible piece of real estate. That along with the size and varied places (south, north east, west coast, southwest, etc)..keeps many NA's here and into Mexico. I agree the price is a huge factor. Open your Sunday paper and see the $300 specials air and hotel to Mexico and people make easy choices. Planning a trip to Europe is super expensive (in comparison) and the length of travel and time change usually does not fit with too many work schedules....

And those passport numbers i think reflect the massive trips to mexico and canada until the recent change in the mandatory passport..

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juanalejo says on Jul 17, 2007, 20:29:

Did any of you guys even read my answer? 1. 60% of Brits have travelled OUTSIDE EUROPE. 2. I am not comparing a select group of people with all Gringos, I am comparing all Colombians that can afford to travel to all Americans that can afford to travel, can you not read. and Tinto 1. Yes the US is a very varied nation geographically, but so is Europe. The difference the US is like a carbon copy when it comes to culture and city scapes in most of the country, Europe is not and yet Europeans not only know their continent by heart experienced their different cultures, but they also travel much more abroad OUTSIDE EUROPE. It also costs them more to travel abroad, they just have different priorities, maybe changing cars less or not guying to mall every Sunday to see what can be bought ? Plus 2. Most Gringos who go "abroad" to Mexico or the Caribbean hardly leave a fully inclusive ALL AMERICAN resort, much less do they mingle with the local culture. That is off course unless they are looking for a sweetheart in Colombia.

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Frank Rizzo says on Jul 17, 2007, 21:27:

Juanalego, I think this is such a hard thing to get your mind wrapped around when throwing Colombia into the equation...I see your point with the UK and USA... i'm sure that the european culture is far more open and driven to international travel. This is probably learned from very young on TV and socially. As far as Colombia, if / when a colombian gets a passport they are fairly high up on the social ladder. They have some property, etc. they probably represent a much higher class than the typical person in the US that can "afford" to vacation and travel.

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adrimm says on Jul 17, 2007, 21:41:

Ahh, but, given the choice for vacations (if they had/could afford it) it, I think that a huge proportion of Colombians would travel abroad soo things in different places and lands, other cultures, languages etc...

Many Americans could actually have more affordable vacations by going abroad, but even then not as many do.

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 18, 2007, 03:04:

Tiendas are the best place to give a proper closure to a night out... Arepas, pan, empanadas...And the best way to get rid og the bad hang over...you walk to the tienda get yourself a can of club colombia and youre good as new!!!!

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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LA_MONA says on Jul 18, 2007, 03:32:

Pica pulmon...

Mona

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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juanalejo says on Jul 18, 2007, 08:36:

GIB - Yes, off course you are so right, you always are. This site is pure evidence of how knowledgable your people are. Hope that makes you happy.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 18, 2007, 09:52:

Juanalejo...this is not PBH about Colombia...


Welcome to the Gringoinbogota Show......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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juanalejo says on Jul 18, 2007, 15:34:

Sorry to dissappoint you.

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Lauthra says on Jul 18, 2007, 15:42:

Yes, tiendas are fun, although I use the one across from our flat mostly to order brownies, morenitas, chocorramo and cake from :P

Nato (='.'=)

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