The illegal economy of Colombia

vicshere says on Aug 4, 2004, 12:34:

google have you tried a google search .... that's what I would have done first...next going to your main library in your town city.....just a couple of thoughts..or try a little bit work and brain power....there is enough info on the web to keep you reading for the next 100 years....or maybe you want somebody here to write your paper for you.... today's students have a lot to learn about work...opps WORK

listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jmmyers says on Aug 4, 2004, 12:51:

damn yeah people using the internet for schoolwork are lazy too, they want google to do their work for them. and google is lazy too they have all of their computers searching all of those websites automatically! man there are some lazy people!! in reality I think posting to a board like this is a great way to do research.

I've done some research into colombian politics and it's not easy to find information, especially over the internet. I've read Steven Dudley's Ghosts of Colombia (check amazon) which is almost too much info on colombian politics but a good source. A shorter and easy to read source is "Killing Peace" that you should be able to read in 7-8 hours no problem and has a good overview of the situation.

The problem is some people have no way to make any money other than growing coca. In colombia, poverty is the real problem and growing coca is a way to get out of it. In the US, poverty is still the real problem and cocaine is a way to get out of it (for a few minutes at a time).

Arms trafficing is really auxiliary to the guerilla movement in general. Being a guerilla is just another avenue and occupation for someone who is broke, bored, and angry. Same goes for the paramililaries. The people supporting them are the people in the city who are the only ones doing any actual productive labor. They give them money though kidnappings, illegal taxes, etc. The rest comes from the U.S. lower class through drugs.

for vicshere: http://www.serta.com/pages/product_perfect_sleeper.html

This should probably be in the other forum by the way :).

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 4, 2004, 13:11:

Andrew,

How about writing about the LEGAL economy of Colombia instead?



ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andrew says on Aug 4, 2004, 13:18:

ColombianoX-I have done that already in other classes. I could talk to you about Colombia's legal economy all day long.

vicshere-Of course I've done a google search. This inquiry was for people that had specific knowledge on the subject, not for people like you that don't know anything, but still feels like calling other people 'lazy' that you don't even know.

This forum is supposed to be about people sharing information about Colombia, not sarcastic comments and whoremongering which is what it has turned into.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

litost says on Aug 4, 2004, 13:30:

there he goes again... ColombianoX,

The guy is just trying to get information for his paper, I hardly think the professor would be impressed if he suddenly decided to change the subject matter.

I am as proud to be colombian and defend the country just as much as you, but there's nothing wrong with recognizing our problems and discussing them. I think your aggressive and blind ultranationalistic respones to others undermines the real objective, which is giving a balanced and overall positive view of Colombia. There is no country in the world that doesn't have to deal with problems and serious issues, refusing to talk about them won't make them go away!

Think about it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

litost says on Aug 4, 2004, 13:32:

Andrew, does it have to be in English?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SiV says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:10:

Another idea: the Informal Economy Heres a different idea. Why don´t you write about the Colombia´s informal economy: the street vendors, etc. It´d be something different, and you´d get a perspective into a huge but largely overlooked area of Colombian industry.
SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andrew says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:13:

Litost- No, I'm fluent in Spanish as well.

BTW-let me say that I am well aware that Colombia gets a bad rap in the international scene, and I do not mean to perpetuate bad stereotypes about Colombia. Last semester I did a report on Colombia's relationship with the IMF, without ever touching upon the underground economy. If any Colombian feels it's necessary to discard stereotypes about your country I guagentee you that you do not need to convince me, as I know that the problems that occur in Colombia in no way define the overall experience for her citizens.

Regards,

Andrew

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andrew says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:16:

SIV I'd be happy to switch my topic if you were to provide me with sufficient information regarding that subject. I am in an international economics course, and I only picked Colombia because I am interested in the country, not because I am interested in crime.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:17:

Whoremongering? I haven't noticed any whoremongering. Elmo likes to talk about doneys but I don't think that qualifies as whoremongering. I think the donkeys were free.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Dan says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:29:

Utopia I remember that he did mention goats too.

God Bless America!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

daver says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:31:

I would like to compliment Andrew on his ability to defend himself against all these "flame" replies.

One way the real Colombia can be shared with the world is through education and research. Who would you rather spread the word about Colombia, Andrew or CNN?

Give the guy a break. If you don't want to help him, don't. You don't have to insult him or criticize his intentions (of which you no nothing) If he was lazy he would just cut and paste his google search results and take a D on the project. Instead, he appears to be putting extra effort by seeking information from people on this site that may have a unique opinions about Colombia. How could he just paste a forum reply to his essay?? The responses he would get from this forum would open doors for him do do more research, and would enrich his study, and in the end, would give a more accurate picture of Colombia to those who read his work.

You don't want him writing that Colombians are a bunch of defensive jerks who flame mail people when they are asked questions about their country, do you?

Andrew... I don't know enough to give you accurate information. I do wish you luck, and I hope to read your essay one day. I hope it sheds better light on the subject of Colombia than the stuff we hear in the news.

Dave

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:39:

since you speak spanish try looking at the Colombian government sites. They have lots of economic documents that might touch your topic. http://www.presidencia.gov.co/ is a good place to start for links to other agencies.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

junior says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:48:

street vendors... i loved to walk the streets in b/manga mainly 'cuz of the streets vendors, i loved to hear them say "a la orden" sounded so respectful and enticing all at the same time. i particularly found the vendors on the buses really fasinating, they would pass out stuff related to their speech...then give their speech...i mean this usually covered any and everything...what a talent!!! i really found this fasinating.

street vendors are really way of life, and then there are the people who cater to the street vendors themselves...interesting

then there are the street vendors from ecuador who are mostly indian in origen...

one of the scenes you might find interesting was when the b/manga police attempt to arrest street vendors who are disliked by the store owners who feel that they pay taxes and street vendors don't...the people on the streets really gave it to the police...very interesting scene...

the people and the way of life in colombia is so fasinating and beautiful...i plan to return very soon...i can't get enough

i love colombia...junior

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Aug 4, 2004, 15:52:

Hey, Junior, we saw those pics, man. We know what you can't get enough of. Not that we blame you for a minute! I can't get enough of my wife either and we have been married almost a year.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

vicshere says on Aug 4, 2004, 16:28:

Andrew Re read your own post
The illegal economy of Colombia
I'm writing a paper for an international economics course, and I was wondering if anyone here could provide me with some useful links regarding the illegal economy of Colombia, specifically the cocaine industry, and gun trafficking.

Much obliged,

Andrew
you asked the board for links....you didn't ask for our opinion or our own experiences.....you asked for links.....links you get on google....opinions and real experience you get on this board... if you don't want Whoremongering be more specific with you question....you sound like an educated guy so form your question correctly and it will get a proper answer....




listo
"con mucho gusto"
Vic

listo

0 funny, 0 helpful.

junior says on Aug 4, 2004, 16:38:

utopiacowboy... thank you for the compliments...saw you pics also, you and your wife are really goodlooking people...i can see where you both are very happy...i would like someday to meet you and motherof2 in texas someday...i can get a return trip from colombia via texas...my fiancee communicates with motherof2 on a regular basis and have become good friends...it would be fun to all meet and it would probably be good for the girls to have colombian company in the united states...after all, texas is not that far from california...

again thank you for your compliment...and i would like to thank you again for you valuable input in this site...you don't know how much your input has helped me in my trip to colombia...

i love colombia...junior

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoX says on Aug 4, 2004, 18:21:

Litost,

Just because I suggested that Andrew write about our legal economy, to which he then stated he has already done, doesn't mean I refuse to recognize our myriad problems. When I wish to discuss our beloved Colombia's dire situation, I do so in the 'War & Politics' forum, not in the 'Friendly Talkzone'.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andrew says on Aug 4, 2004, 21:12:

I guess this was a bad idea.

Since I started posting on this forum it has always been about positive things, about sharing information. Some people here are obviously intelligent, and educated, Gringos, and Colombians alike, but it seems that a large amount of posters are more about meeting exotic women, which, by the way I have nothing against, but if that is what you are interested in, please keep it confined to threads on the topic (I.E. every third thread on this board) and don't spew mine with nonsense about 'lazyness'. As Daver correctly interpreted, I am perfectly capable of researching my own paper, but I thought I could get some insider links from people knowledgable about the subject.

There really is very little information sharing going on, so I don't think I have any reason to continue posting here.

To the Colombians-I have many Colombian friends already, and know that cocaine, and FARC have about as much to do with your life as me being responsible for the war in Iraq has to do with mine, but just remember that maybe you should consider these other types that post on here before taking offense to my inquiery.

Tchau,

Andrew

0 funny, 0 helpful.

SiV says on Aug 6, 2004, 13:28:

A couple of links and ideas Hi there, Andrew

Don´t take the morons´comments to heart, it sounds like your an intelligent and informed person. To be honest, I don´t really know much about this topic, but I run a search on google.com.co and it came up with a couple of interesting pieces from reliable sources:

The International Labour Organisation:

http://www.ilo.org/dyn/dwresources/iebrowse.page?p_lang=es&p_ieresource_id=278

another article from Colombia´s Banco de Republica, (I imagine that the B de R would be an excellent source of info)

http://www.lablaa.org/ayudadetareas/economia/econo98.htm

or mabe try the archives of Colombia´s financial newspaper, La Republica:

http://www.la-republica.com.co/


As for other ideas, maybe you could try la Red Social for the more social issues, Bienestar Familiar, etc, and maybe even a few of Bogota´s ex-Mayor, Antonus Mockus´essays on the topic would be interesting.
Good luck with it.

SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Andrew says on Aug 6, 2004, 13:54:

Al fin, gracias Siv,

Te aseguro que tu pais me interesa mas por los amigos Colombianos que yo tengo en vez de drogas y sexo como mucha gente alrededor de a ca. Quiero viajar por alli un dia, lo que pasa es que todavia me falta poco tiempo en la escuala. Despues de eso me voy a Colombia para darme cuenta en persona de todas las cosas buenas de ese pais maravilloso. Antes estaba diciendote que no ofenderte porque mi interesa tiene que que ver con los investigaciones que yo hago antes de visitar a un pais para que yo sepa todo que yo puedo. Yo vivia en Rio de Janeiro, Brasil por mas de uno ano y cuando personas me preguntan sobre la seguridad y el crimen me quiero reir en esos asuntos rediculos.
A proposito les entiendo a uds. si se offendan por la gente norteamerica que solo creen que Colombianidad tiene que ver con chavas bellas y drogas. Eso no es yo. Otra vez te agradezco.

Hasta luego,

Andrew

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on Aug 7, 2004, 15:46:

Research There really is very little information sharing going on, so I don't think I have any reason to continue posting here.

Quite true. Estimate 3/4 or more of information and comments posted here are either false, misleading or have an extremely narrow view point.

The subject of illegal activities is NOT discussed much in Colombia with anyone remotely thought to be an "Outsider". A person needs to be crazy to discuss much on these forums. Then,, how would you know if it is true?

You won't recognize reliable information until you can learn to perceive the truth. This takes a looooog trip to Colombia and a looooog time with a Colombian, information from Colombians, etc.

When you acquire a knowledge of the culture, including understanding the language and customs you will have learned why the posts contain no more useful information than you will get with any other "chat room" forum. In fairness,, the board of much better than it was 6 months ago,, at least the obsenity posts are either being eliminated or minimized.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.