The Grass Is Always Greener on the Other Side
This thread is directed to all the PBHers who have expressed a variety of opinions regarding immigrating to/from Colombia. On the one hand, there are native-born Americans who are not happy living in the US, and see Colombia as a more desirable place to live. And on the other hand, there are native Colombians who are not happy living in Colombia, and have desire to live in the US. There are also opinions expressed by expatriates living in Colombia, and immigrants living in the US. The tone of this thread will be from the point of view of a native-born American, and because I use the US as a reference point, it is in no way my intention to disrespect those folks living in Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, which are also desirable countries sought by Colombians.
Now I think that it would be reasonable to say that the US can be a land of opportunity for some, but not all people living here. There are a lot of advantages to living in the US, but a perfect place it is not, by any stretch of the imagination. In a little over 200 years, it has developed into quite a different country than the Forefathers could have ever imagined. Some things for the better, and some for the worse. If your last name is Gates or Rockefeller, you might have reason to be exuberant; however, if you are not as fortunate as some, and you have to struggle every day to keep afloat, like most, then your view of the US Dream will be much different. Americans are a very diverse people: morally, religiously, financially, ethnically, and just about every –ly word you can imagine.
I am no expert on Colombia by any means, nor have I labeled myself as such. I have my opinions based on observations, research, and personal experiences like the next person. Colombia also has a great number of advantages to living there, but we all know of the negatives as well. Every country in the world has its positives as well as negatives. For me, the nature of and culture of the Colombian people are the biggest strengths to living there. Having traveled, worked, and vacationed all over the world, like so many others on this site, I feel that the most humble, friendly, and hardworking people have origins in Colombia. This is not to say that ALL Colombians are this way, such as terrorist, corrupts officials, and criminals, but if I were to characterize Colombians in a nutshell, this would do just fine.
From reading most of the comments bashing both the US and Colombia from opposing viewpoints, I really fail to see the usefulness, significance, and relevance of such postings. If a reasonable person was not happy with his/her living conditions with respect to countries, I would expect this reasonable person to live where he/she would be content and happy. That is, of course, taking into consideration that the goal is to be happy in life. But to claim that one country “sucks” and the other is “utopia” is silly, at best. By all means, if you are not happy in the US or Colombia, then either work to change the US or Colombia more to your liking, or you can put up with the status quo and still live there. You don’t have to love living anywhere. But bashing either country is a waste of your time and energy, as nothing will change for you. Or, you can always move to where you will be happy. This is not the same as a “Love It or Leave It” approach, and there are more than two options provided. If I was completely dissatisfied with my life in the US, I would seek out to live in places where I would like it better. One of the advantages to living in the US is that you can travel and live almost anywhere in the world, and still be able to return. But Colombia is not the US, and the US is not Colombia. Colombian culture is not American culture, and American culture is not Colombian culture.
Personally, i prefer to live amongst people whom are friendly by nature and not by necessity or convenience (like in California where I have dealt with less-than-desirable people in over 27 years in law enforcement), and whom I have an immense respect for. Sure, Colombia has its issues, but what country doesn’t? And these issues certainly should not stop a person from living where they will be happy. You lose some benefits, but you gain others. And I sure as hell don’t want to live life without some adventure to it, as life is too short to waste it living in a withdrawn shell.
The debate by some as to which country is better will continue, no doubt, but others will pursue what happiness means for them. Hopefully, each of us will be able to find that environment that they desire and achieve what happiness means to them. I wish the best of luck to all who have made or who will be making the plunge to the country of their choice!
I would like to hear some success stories and not-so-successful stories of PBHers who have experience in living in foreign countries. I also apologize for the length of this post in advance! =)
Miguel Clavo
By Miguel_Clavo on Jun 16, 2006, 20:50 in Friendly Talkzone.
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 16, 2006, 21:52: All the talk about which place is better is pointless. Every place has its good and bad points. What's good for one person may be bad for another. Trite but true. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 22:15: MC, it also... depends a lot on the person and what he or she makes of the situation. As we have seen on this site many times, you can have two people talking about the same place and one thinks it's heaven and the other hell. Some peolple are going to be miserable no matter where they go.
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Crazy4Cali says on Jun 16, 2006, 22:32: You can see it all, wherever you go. I think it's a case of "you see what you look for."
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 22:42: The problem... in San francisco is that, that $800,000 home is a called a "starter home", but I agree with you Crazy, with a few exeptions, you just can't earn in Colombia the kind of money you can here in the US. In a coulpel of years, though, I will be selling that starter and taking early retirement in Colombia.
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 22:51: If Mexico eventually.. passes the personal dose drug law, then you would see a reverse migration of 12 million Americans crossing the border into Mexico.
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Rubiazo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:18: Part of the problem is that Colombia is ALREADY a very hugely diverse country. You have many different climates, cultures, and people there. Sometimes 30 miles as the crow flies brings an elevation (and culture) change of 10,000 feet or so! And then US is just mind-bogglingly vast. NYC and Boston are very different, as are LA and SF, or Memphis and New Orleans, all just a short afternoon's drive from each other.
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:20: I agree with just about all the comments here Mario…the nationalistic Americans bash Colombia because it isn’t the US, and vice versa with some native south Americans. But those who spend only vacations and a relatively short time there (not including you) see it as utopia, which it isn’t. They see the readily obvious things (pretty women, great exchange rate, etc) but fail to see the less obvious things. How many newcomers see themselves as the next super-handsome Celebrity Bill Gates after a couple of visits? First impressions of a new country are rarely accurate….what is the norm in ones own country is usually not the norm in another, and if one applies their own standards to the other country, a “bad reading” occurs….. "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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miamimike says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:20: Here in The USA, its NOT what you earn..... its what you save and invest......Get out of the creditcarditis, materialitis and keep up with the jonesitis and your problem is 95% licked....That may apply in Colombia also.... Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:26: Rubiazo...that is very true! BUt from reading between the lines on alot of some posts, some think that leaving the rat race of the US and living in Colombia will be a walk in the park, which is really naive....yeah, if you want to sell phonecards all day long....but i think that they believe that the standard of living they enjoy in the US will carry over....and they will be in a world of hurt when reality hits......and then of course there are the ones who see Colombia as a sex industry playground...and no farther than the tip of their pecker..... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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skatefrog says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:27: In regards to "starter homes" I'm curious, why the only place hispanics settle (for the most part, anyway)or move to initially, when they are coming to america, is NY, Miami, LA, or Chicago? If they would do a little research, they would see how much house they could really get in other cities, smaller - true, but still great. For example, I grew up in Greenville, SC. A city, but not a big one, but not too small. At this point in time, a 2500-3000 sq. ft. house (new) would be selling for $200,000-$300,000. The ones that are selling for around $300,000 are made of hardy plank and stone, have granite counter tops, whirlpool tubs, hardwoods, ect. I have many hispanic friends that used to live up north, and in Florida, who have moved to greenville (or similar cities) and rave about the standard of living, and then they tell their friends. I'm just wondering, what reason, besides having family in NY or LA, would motivate immigrants to move to these huge cities, to live in a tiny apartment that they have to share, when they could, for the same price, buy a HUGE house in places like greenville?
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:36: People like to live with their own people, like in California.. we get a ton of Asians...and initially they have families living together in the same houses to save money until they can buy something in the same area.....Plus, for some new people, they live where they can buy things they are familiar with from people who speak the same language.. i would not think that there would be too many Viets in Minnesota or North Dakota, regardless of the housing price...there are no other Viet speakers.....and to alot of Hispanics, family is everything.....sole system of support... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:41: I know for alot of illegal Mexicans, it is easier to hide in.. the large barrios of a city like LA....now, for a predominantly white city, they would stick out like a sore thumb and get caught and deported faster....and the low incomes with a high cost of living makes them stay put,,,,fortuantely or unfortunately, you dont have to be a citizen to buy property in the US, unlike other countries... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:44: I agree, MiamiMike....income is not a good indicator.. the ability to build savings and maximizing disposable income are more important...and with some luck or insider trading ..hahaha... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:46: Skatefrog, I think the most probable... answer to your question, is that they go to where the jobs are. Most immigrants aren't in the position to be buying houses (I said most, not all). The average salary in SC is 40% of what it is in the Silicon Valley and furthermore many skilled illegal laborers in the SF Bay Area make between $15 and $25 per Hr. which if I'm not mistaken is considered a reasonably good wage for anybody in the south. BillyB
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:47: MC, by the way... love the Garlic fest in Gilroy.
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skatefrog says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:57: yeah I see what you mean, one feels comfortable and safe around his own kind. But still, if I was going to move to canada, I would research it a bit, not just move straight to montreal. I do know that many hispanics love the housing situation explained above. My husband has done several loans for whole families who want to move to greenville, so I guess, word of mouth. Those who hear about the higher standards of living seem to pack up pretty quick, sell in CA or Fl, and buy a huge house in G'ville. I wish more people knew. I grew up in NC, and I didn't even know how great the standard of living was in SC! It sucks here in Fl. though.
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billyb says on Jun 16, 2006, 23:59: I beleive that Colombia's... greatest asset is the strength/cohesion of the family unit, including the extended family.
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:07: billyb You know very well that with higher wages comes higher housing costs. I don't care if I'm making $25 dollars an hour, I don't want to pay 500,000 for an awful house. Having a nice, safe home is a major goal for many hispanics. Illegal immigrants can buy a house, if they have been paying taxes for the last two years (now, that is their choice, whether they do or not) illegal immigrants can buy a house just as easy as a citizen, with the tax id program, they can get 95% - 97% financed. (by the way, what is Garlic fest in Gilroy?)
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Rubiazo says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:15: I guess it depends on what you really want out of life! I could be very happy with very little. Actually I have LIVED with very little. There is nothing that I could miss in Colombia that I haven't already missed in Canada or the US. I literally was so poor at one point in Canada that I had to skip eating some days. One time I even had to live with no heat and no hot water for three months during a Toronto winter!
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billyb says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:16: Skate, I understand your point.... (and by the way, a friend of mine lives in Greenville and from what he says, it's beautifull)but how many immigrants can G'ville handle?($500,000 won't buy you a garage here). Gilroy is the self proclaimed garlic capital of the world and every yearthey have a festival that showcases foods amse with/from garlic including garlic icecream.
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:20: Miguel, greenville is predominately white, as most cities (even the very large ones, with a couple exceptions in some areas) are, but, greenville has THOUSANDS of hispanics, and, one would be very far from "sticking out like a sore thumb". As far as hispanics go, Colombians are second in number, (first is mexico of course), in greenville. Cities like greenville, moderately sized, do not have as high of a hispanic percentage as miami of course, but, they are very prevalent. These moderately sized cities don't have as high of a hispanic population as LA, but please don't assume that just because it is a city that you don't know much about, and it is in the south, that it is composed only of white racists. Far from it.
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:24: Ha ha Ha, funny, Gilroy - the garlic capital of the world! Your right, G'ville, couldn't handle an overflow of immigrants at one time, but with the rate they are coming, and the rate that houses are being built there, the city seems to be doing great. Totally right though, only specific places could handle an overflow, if even those cities!
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 00:34: Yes, you CAN get a loan in NY without your greencard. All you need is your tax id number, and two years work history. My husband works for a national bank, he's a loan officer, and he's worked with hispanics from many different states, including NY. Many banks and brokers don't offer this program yet though. It is relatively new, it's an amazing one though!
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miamimike says on Jun 17, 2006, 01:11: More I read about how much it cost to live in the USA is an individual thing. A while ago I saw where some said it cost $3000+ monthly to live in Bogota and I thought, where do they live, eat, party? Man that's a lot of Pesos. I live here in Miami for a 1/3rd of that monthly.In a discussion with my Ladyfriend who lives in Bogota, she agreed $3000 for living expenses monthly is way way over the limit. She does OK with much less though she saves and pays cash for her cars, her house has been payed for 15 years ago and she avoids credit cards. I see a lot of variation in costs of Lifestyles here in Miami where I live(though not for much longer). Some insist on living in the Water, expensive Apts&Condos, clothes, tatoos, watches, ect tonterias. A Buddy's Colombian wife sells 18K Jewelry here in Miami she exports from Bogota and I see the Economic level she sells to-most of the people are living check to check-no way should they be buying expensive jewlry on credit! Easy to see why these people are soon upside-down on their Bills ect. In Pennsylvania where I used to live(and where I will return for part of the year) Older Fixer Upper houses in the city still can be had for 15K-25K, sometimes less. Hard to beleive but true! My Sis and her Husband just sold their Swiss Chalet in the Penna Mountains on a 1/2 acre lot for $27K(27000), 3 br, 1 bath. All what a person's personal goals, money management skills and priorities are about! Funny here in Miami they had Car Condos (8x20 foot space in a large air conditioned bldg) advertised last week starting at $215,000.......Maintenence will be around $200 monthly..Glad I bought my Studio condo for $17K in '96, never could buy here today. Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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aztec says on Jun 17, 2006, 04:30: "and it is in the south, that it is composed only of white racists. Far from it." skatefrog
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Aji1 says on Jun 17, 2006, 06:01: Make Dollars, Spend Pesos If are still in the work years of your life the ideal situation is to make your money in dollars based on cost of living in the U.S. Then live in Colombia spending pesos. But I am sure am stating the obvious to most in here. Nice goal to work toward however.
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 10:08: Skatefrog...please reread my post on the "sore thumb" comment ...a main concern for almost all of the Mexican illegals is getting reported to ICE and deported in the middle of the night to a bordertown wiht no $$....their color makes them an easliy noticeable target for ICE..no way that can be construed, interpreted, or understood as meaning that any or all southern cities are full of white supremacist and racists....i was trying to answer you inquiry about why Hispanics tend to congregate in the larger cities......hiding from being deported was the response, not how you misunderstood it or put your own spin on my response......and do a google search on Gilroy because billyb described it accurately....a great place to live if you like the smell of garlic 24/7, but you dont have to worry about vampires either!! hahahah.....btw, in N. Calif lots of summer festivals are given "food" names, Strawberry Festival (Los Gatos), Mushroom Festival (Morgan Hill), etc. Gilroy has the largest attendance each year...also, garlic ice cream is disgusting, IMHO! hahaha... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 10:10: Morphus...show us you have an "other side" to you... this has been an interesting and decent discussion so far, lets keep your love life out of this one, please.... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 11:30: Morphie, you have shown us that you maintain a limited English voacabulary, but you sure throw out sodomy-related words alot.....hmm...wishful thinking or learned from experience? On www.bubbalikesmorphus.com Bubba writes that you are his favorite hood ornament..btw, "little paragraphs" coincide with "little pen.." oh, never mind.....the topic was not how to live with no money in NY, the topic was comparative experiences in living in other countries and the good and bad point involved.....start a new thread about "Frugal Dating in NY with no money vs Frugal Dating in Colombia with no money"...Intelligent and relevant participation by you is always welcome, however...... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 11:33: Yes, Morphus, i read the rest of it....very good info.....but to carry a flask of vodka around is a bit extreme by my standards. And your point is well taken about the advantages to buying used cars.... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 12:04: Your right, though I was just trying to convey the real picture. The fact is, so many who live up north, or in the biggest cities, assume that the south is composed of white racists, I'm glad you don't though. I just think that a little research would help alot of people, who don't want to live with 5 friends in an apartment. My husband, when he first came to America several years ago, lived in LA, and shared a 2br apt. with 4 other guys. He was absolutely amazed when he saw greenville. G'ville has a booming hispanic economy, half the nightclubs in G'ville are hispanic,and yes g'ville has hispanic radio stations and everything. I think it's funny that anyone would assume that, in one of these moderately large cities, that a hispanic would stick out, and be sent home, that's ridiculous! maybe if one was in a tiny town in the woods somewhere, but, not in greenville. When I was living there, I would see several, obviously illegal, immigrants walking around, nobody thinks twice about it. I would think that, unless of course their whole family is in LA, that they would be happy to know about such places.
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 17, 2006, 12:11: You are absolutely right, Skatefrog. About 10 years ago I took a business trip to San Jose and I was telling someone that I had bought a house in Texas for $30,000. They literally could not believe it. They thought I was lying. The Yankees and people on the coasts think everywhere is just like where they live but it's not. Don't tell them. We've got enough Yankees here already and they don't adapt well. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 13:05: To to most new arrivals, perception and stereotypes are reality. I live on the west coast, so i have no experience with living in the north or the south. My family came from Guadalajara and could only afford to travel as far north as LA initially.....all of my family (4 siblings and my mother) still live there...once comfortable in ones new enviroment, i think that it takes a generation or two to start feeling frisky enough to venture out. And my parents were just ecstatic about just living in the US...compared to the way they were living in Mexico, it was comparable to winning a superlotto....they saw it as a dream come true...and actually, still hold it as such...And it takes that long to save enough money to afford a house here in CA...Like UC says, my son bought a same size house (3500 sq ft) in Plano, Texas, that was almost identical to my last one in Gilroy, and he paid a little over 100k for it. I paid originally 650k...for an identical (almost) house,,,, but the difference is the land underneath my house was valued at over 500K with the structure being the balance! "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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corazon en colombia says on Jun 17, 2006, 15:22: Financial freedom After taking a look at what you actually pay when you buy a home (including the interest) or for other loans or credit cards, I am convinced that the only way for me is to pay cash for things and not to buy what I don't have money for. I don't know how people live paycheck to paycheck, what happens in case of an emergency? Colombia = paradiso 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 17, 2006, 15:48: Your last sentence sums up my wife. You could plunk her anywhere and she'd be her cheerful happy-go-lucky self. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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calipro says on Jun 17, 2006, 16:42: UC I thought I read in one of your posts that your wife would never want to go back and live in Colombia.
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 16:49: UC..plunk her next to Morphus and she will run like Forrest Gump Just my opinion... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 17, 2006, 16:55: At this point in her life she would not want to live in Colombia but she wants to go back at some point. I wouldn't mind having a cattle ranch in Cordoba between Monteria and the coast. I really like Colombia but I'm a realist and so is she. Meanwhile life is good at the refugee camp. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 17:59: northerners (in general) yeah, the yankees do have such a hard time with adaptation in the south, I wonder what makes them so bitter? I guess they are used to acting that way, because all of their peers in NY act that way. I hate it when I'm in a bigger city, in a mall or something, and people just bump into you like your not even there, without even so much as a "pardon me". what's up with that!
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 18:38: Morphus, i didnt mean that your were repulsive or anything close to that...and i never claimed that i was something special...but you wont see me seeing myself as a demi-god in a 3rd world country or an rich american either....but based on some of the central recurring themes of your posts, they all return to your successes in the boy-meets-girl activities...i dont feel that i am superior to anyone...not my nature..i was just teasing you to be humorous....nothing more....The truth is, i would let you buy me a beer! =) "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 17, 2006, 18:44: We only do that to gomers from the South :)
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 17, 2006, 20:08: Morphus, i wont be in CTG until the end of August at the earliest so we can hook up then, once i get settled in there.. "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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skatefrog says on Jun 17, 2006, 20:10: Where people live depends on their priorities, and the number 1 priority for a hard-working immigrant is not going out at 3am, it's making a living, and helping their families. but, there are those out there that think that partying is their sole purpose in life, so, whatever makes you happy.
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Rubiazo says on Jun 17, 2006, 20:20: Morphus sounds great, but next week I'm ALL booked up, my lovely daughter graduates kindergarten on Tuesday, I have the exterminator coming Monday, then I have a new fridge coming in, plus we have to make a Home Depot run to repair a crack in the sidewalk before someone trips over it and fucking SUES, then Wednesday on I have work.
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billyb says on Jun 18, 2006, 00:10: Skate, if i'm not.... mistaken Rubiazo is a musician and if he's up at 3am, he's probably just practicing his proffesion.
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 08:05: I disagree First off, most people who max out their credit cards are not trying to keep up with the Joneses. Often that cc debt is from medical bills, unforseen home repairs (as in my case), or even simply groceries! I don't think people realize how badly costs of the basics are spiraling out of control here.
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Blue says on Jun 19, 2006, 08:13: Emigrants appear to be profoundly alienated in some sociological sense. Most people have sufficiently strong ties to their families, friends and other social institutions to preclude them from ever even considering leaving their home country. I’m not suggesting they’re “abnormal” just alienated and disconnected from their communities.
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gringolondinense says on Jun 19, 2006, 08:25: Granite counter tops? Holy ****! Ive already packed my stuff! Im shippin' out!! No more 5-ply-with-UPVC-coating!!
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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Jun 19, 2006, 13:02: Dongringo, you are getting one of my preferred posters... "I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present." 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 13:55: The thing is for people under 30 in the USA their upward mobility is MUCH more limited than for those a generation before them.
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 15:43: In ANY country you're never really gonna get rich by working a day job! Getting a degree and working as a professional will get you comfortable if you pick the right field, but the REAL money is always in being an owner and not a worker. I would say that in the USA OR in Colombia getting a degree is a big waste of your time if all you want from it is material benefit!! There are MUCH quicker and better ways to make money than that in either country. My gf has a degree that she could wipe her ass with, and makes her money from being self-employed.
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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Jun 19, 2006, 16:13: Rubi: Bill & Pablo are not the average persons... although it is hard to define El Patron a successful person. By the way... I have a big chisme about Bill Gates sacando una pelada colombiana de un burdel en St Martin... :-) if I had a photo they would pay a million dollar for it! "I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present." 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 17:41: I wouldn't consider them role models, either of them! But we are talking about materially successful people. If you want to talk about people who are doing what they want to do, there are VERY few people who are doing that.
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robi666 (Trustee board) says on Jun 19, 2006, 18:11: As DonGringo said: "working and saving for the next generation to have a better life". By the way... Don Oscar's son is studying in Berkeley. "I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present." 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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caulfield2 says on Jun 19, 2006, 18:42: http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/11/gates-w.html
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skatefrog says on Jun 19, 2006, 19:17: Rubaizo, trying to convince people that the U.S. has just as many poverty-stricken as Colombia is ridiculous. In the U.S., you basically have unlimeted opportunities to move up, or afford groceries, (seems you think that groceries are extremely expensive here, in comparison to colombia) which brings me back to my point, my question, "If an immigrant, or an american is having such an awful time affording groceries, why not move to a city other that LA, or NY, and eat?" You say that you would "NEVER" be comfortable in a place like SC, well, you know, some people prefer to eat well, have a NICE home, and save on top of that. If you are stuck in such an awful position, and are forced (poor thing) to eat at Mcdonalds for every meal, maybe you should rethink your living situation. (By the way, that's ridiculous to blame excessive consuming of crap on poverty, buying a big can of hearty soup would be just as cheap, it comes down to personal choices) Maybe you should take DonGringo's advice, and go live in colombia, in the average colombian's position. When it comes to standard of living, there is no comparison between the U.S. and colombia. I wonder why, if given the chance, most colombians would choose to live in a country with such a plethora of opportunites, like the U.S.? hmmm...
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 19, 2006, 21:01: Skatefrog, if we only lived in a perfect world, what you post might occur.....but, since we dont live in Utopia.... "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 19, 2006, 21:10: For what it's worth, Skatefrog, my wife agrees with you. She says a person in poverty in Colombia is basically trapped and few people can change their situation in life. She says in the US jobs and education are so much easier to come by, you can easily improve your lot in life. If it were up to her, she'd sponsor a lot of Colombians to come to the US to improve their situation. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 21:27: OK 1) I never said that the US has a greater % of poor people than Colombia, nor did I say that it has less upward economic mobility.
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Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 19, 2006, 21:31: Talk about lame generalizations...... "The reason people don't move to places like Greenville, South Carolina is basically ignorance. Yankees and the people on the coasts think everyone who doesn't live where they live is a hick redneck. Hardly any of them have even travelled or seen other parts of the country." UC "I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave" 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 19, 2006, 21:48: Try this one Tell me what benefits do we have living in the USA compared to Colombia that are NOT material, besides greater personal security?
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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 20, 2006, 01:51: a short answer to a long question I'll just focus this on personal happiness factor and the greener grass: it makes almost no difference where you are; the only thing that matters is who you are. Happiness is like a baggage you carry around with you, not something you find traveling from one country to another. "When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth) 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Albatross says on Jun 20, 2006, 04:09: TC "I guarantee you that a lot more Texans have been to NYC than New Yorkers have been to Texas." “Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Albatross says on Jun 20, 2006, 04:38: Texas I spent six weeks in basic training at Lackland AFB in San Antonio and another six at Shepard in Wichita Falls. One night a buddy and I went out, the place was crowded, but an old-timer (looked a bit like Col Sanders) kindly offered us a seat at his table. At first he was happy to share his table with a couple of boys willing to serve this “great country”, but after learning that we were both Yankees he said quite matter of factly, “I’m sorry, but I’ll have to ask you two to leave my table”. At first I thought he was joking, but he was serious as a heart attack. “Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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gringolondinense says on Jun 20, 2006, 04:43: What exactly is "standard of living"? To me, being surrounded by happy, resilient, friendly people= a very high standard of living. Having a granite worktop in my kitchen, or a swimming pool in my back garden wont make me happy one bit. Sure, its nice to have, but in the long run Id rather have the above people instead. "Western" people are too self-absorbed and moan all the time. The poorer people on this earth seem far more happy and contented. The problem with a lot of people these days is the more they have, the more they want. Standard of living for me aint about objects.
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utopiacowboy says on Jun 20, 2006, 08:08: I've travelled and talked to plenty of people on the West Coast and they are so locked into their own little world, they think everywhere is like where they are. They can't imagine it being any different than how it is where they live. I lived in various New England states for 10 years and I can't imagine a more narrow-minded group of people. I wouldn't mind another civil war and this time we'll win. Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult. 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Albatross says on Jun 20, 2006, 08:38: Dream On... ... “Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Blue says on Jun 20, 2006, 10:13: Some more observations on Bill Gates... Hardly a rags-to-riches story here. Comes from a fairly prominent upper-middle class family going back several generations. Some poster above mentioned that he was an average programmer. I don’t know about this but it wouldn’t be surprising despite a whopping 1590 score on his SAT. A few of his Harvard professors, however, recall that he was a mediocre student. His SAT score was surely bolstered by his attending Lakeside prep school where you get several years of “test prep”. lol Anyway, biographers surmise that when he realized at Harvard he wasn’t the “math genius” that he thought he was, “Plan B” was born. The rest is Microsoft history. Many contend that he “borrowed” the basic ideas from others. Steve Jobs of Apple fame to be specific. This is likely because he’s never impressed others as being particularly creative. Intelligent and driven but not very creative. There’s no question that Jobs is the creative one in this field and Gates the very rich one.
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Albatross says on Jun 20, 2006, 10:41: ...and even more... True, but Bill was better at creating wealth. “Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 20, 2006, 13:32: at DonGringo That's not personal freedom. That's just money pure and simple. Your whole long post boils down to 'it's easier to make money in the USA', which is a point against which I have never argued!
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Colombiche says on Jun 20, 2006, 14:29: I think there is concensus at PBH... that the US and to a lesser degree Canada, are places of greater opportunity where a smart immigrant can make money and save if he/she does not fall into the "keeping up with the Joneses" trap. No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy) 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 20, 2006, 14:51: My plan is to be able to buy a house down there but still have to work off of the local economy, obviously at a great advantage! I will also derive passive income from the house.
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skatefrog says on Jun 20, 2006, 21:29: Good posts DonGringo. Thanks UT, you know I agree with you. Rubiazo, you don't know anything about me. To say that I "wouldn't even know healthy food or a well-built house if it kicked you in the ass! " is vulgar and childish. My posts were emphasizing the importance of a "well built house", eat your own words and go back and read MY posts. As far as healthy food goes, I can almost assure you that I know more about that topic than you, so don't even go there. I'm studying to be a personal trainer, and studying to get my ACE and NASM certifications. I work out 5-6 days a week. I was a vegetarian for 7 years, and a vegan for 3, and currently eat only white meat and fish. So, I don't give a care if you buy fresh fruit and vegetables, so does everybody else, bravo. You can't seriously be telling me that you took my soup comment literally. I was just trying to explain that a poor person has other options than Mcdonalds. Just because you think that the only food people here seem to be able to afford is mcdonalds, doen't mean it's true. Go to the grocery store, buy a can of tuna and a cucumber. That'll cost you the same thing. (I suppose now your going to complain about the high levels of mercury in the tuna)
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billyb says on Jun 20, 2006, 22:06: Skate, just one... question. If the standard of living is so high in the south, why all the trailer homes? And I lived in TN for 6 months, so I've seen it first hand?
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skatefrog says on Jun 20, 2006, 22:20: Why all the Home-LESS in other parts of the country? I haven't at all denied or insinuated that everyone is rich in the south. You know it's simple, their are poor, middle, and rich everywhere, and that is never going to change, no matter what city or country you are in. At least those people have a place to live! how many don't have a home at all...?
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seabass says on Jun 21, 2006, 06:28: I think a lot of immigrants have "the big city is safer" mentality.
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billyb says on Jun 21, 2006, 06:45: Skate...the fact remains... that even with the more expensive housing, the quality of life in the SF Bay Area blows away SC in just about every qualitative/quantitative measure. Have you ever been to SF? The housing stock is much better than in SC. I'd bet 50% of the houses in SC would heve been condemened in SF. Remember you're talking about middle and upper class hoods, when in the south about 50% of the population is considered working poor. Homeless people are overwhelmingly drug/alcohol addicts that gravitate to cities with generous welfare policies (that leaves out the whole south), while trailer home dwelers are mostly working poor that just squeeze by on those "great' salaries that are the norm in the sunbelt.
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JMOON87 says on Jun 21, 2006, 08:36: The Carolinas .. The Carolinas are beauitfull but it is not a place for people from other country's looking to start out in life it is a place for retirees who have sold the 800k house in California and looking to get the same house somewhere else for 300k -there is not gonna be a lot of job options like in california-new york - florida ,also even though the cost of living may be higher in califonia and florida there is probaly a better chance of making ends meat .My business partner has a condo on myrtle beach he bought as a rental and it has turned out to be a nightmare ....Also i think a lot of latins such as my wife who is from Cali hate the cold weather and do want to be around other latin people untill they can learn more english .
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Rubiazo says on Jun 21, 2006, 11:00: Jmoon hit it on the head The paintbrush guy was here in NYC because all the work for a guy like hime is in places like here!
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Colombiche says on Jun 21, 2006, 14:32: .... I jumped in horror and the eggs and frying pan dropped on the floor. -- Morphus No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy) 0 funny, 0 helpful. |
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Rubiazo says on Jun 21, 2006, 14:47: When in Colombia AVOID the supermarkets, shop at the farmers markets!
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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 21, 2006, 14:47: he though he was going to be Eggxecute jejeje
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skatefrog says on Jun 21, 2006, 17:49: Rubiazo where the heck do you shop, in a dumpster? When my mother-in-law comes from colombia, she is constantly worried whenever she goes shopping that the things stores sell are already expired, that is something she deals with in Colombia, but, not here. Stores don't knowingly sell expired or rotten foods, where are you getting your food? You make it sound like America is a third-world country, with worms in our bags of flour. If your going to say something, at least say something that's true. As far as houses, can you find in ANY of my posts, ANYWHERE, even a mention of a stick built house? where the hell are you getting your ideas from, I'm not even talking about "stick built houses" you are. There are "stick-built" houses everywhere, in every city in America. As you said yourself, you live in one. Why are you so intent on shoving "stick built houses" in my face, when I haven't said a single word about it, and you live in one, do you understand how STUPID that sounds???! I'm sorry, I just don't understand why your talking to me about stick built houses, this is clearly some conversation your having inside your head, not with me, I didn't say anything about it.
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skatefrog says on Jun 21, 2006, 18:06: billyb That's great that your so happy in SF, good for you. Like I said before, there are poor and rich in every city, in every country. It all depends on what you want. If you love living in SF, in an 800,000 dollar "starter home" great for you. I've been living in Miami for about a year now, and, I love that ther is alot to do, but, it's not where I wanna spend my life and have a family. But that's just me. Some people would rather live somewhere else, and for $800,000 live in a 4,000 sq. ft. brick home, with a pool and a 3 car garage. Personaly, I would choose that, rather than a starter home in CA. but then again, that's just me, and my husband, who, by the way, did live in LA for a while, so, he knows exactly what I'm talking about. So, to me, I would be carrying out a higher standard of living with choice number 2, than choice number 1. And, some people think that they are carrying out a better standard of living JUST by getting OUT of a smog filled city like LA.
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billyb says on Jun 21, 2006, 20:11: Skate, I'm glad.... to see you have come full circle. This particular branch of the thread started by you saying you could not understand why most immigrants chose to go to Chicago, NY, L.A. etc... instead of to small cities like G'ville, which would be your choice. Most of the answers were to the effect that peolple tend to go where the jobs are and where they feel comfortable. You could not understand that. Now you are saying that it all depends on what you want. And a large house in a boring town is great, if all you want to do is stay at home. By the way, i'm not recommending L.A. either.
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Rubiazo says on Jun 21, 2006, 21:02: Most houses in the USA are frame houses. Housing stock in the USA is very poor on average compared to many other 'third world' countries. |