the flower industry in Colombia

tasco66 says on Jun 26, 2008, 09:38:

“I learned how much of a mystery the flower industry is and that by keeping it a secret, U.S. companies can hide the poor working conditions that many of these workers endure every day without any say toward a change"

“U.S. flower companies will continue to move their farms from California to Colombia. They can make bigger profits."

“The biggest change came in 1998 with the arrival of Dole Fresh Flowers, a subsidiary of the U.S. Dole Food Company, who bought several of the largest flower plantations. Since then wages have decreased and workers can no longer seek a job directly with a company’s boss; the workers have to talk to a middle man who then assigns them to work at a particular plant, often not a worker's top choice."

But, but I though reading PBH, that the bad guys responsible for low wages were the rich Colombians and the overpaid and corrupted Colombian politicians???

Boy how was I wrong!

Bravo, Presidente Uribe for the perfect operation!

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sanandressi says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:01:

If I could somehow find the time and somebody to finance it I would write a book on Colombia's flower industry. How it destroyed California's (Coolorado's) rose industry and how YOUR US government (If you are American) helped destroy this US agricultural product.

It has to do with the Andean Free Trade thing back in the late 80's or early 90's. I would love to investigate how the USAID branch of the STATE DEPARTMENT helped set this industry up with US taxpayer money.

The lie about how many jobs this has created to keep Colombians from growing coco leaves when a majority of the flowers are right next to Bogota'''s airport. (Take the weekend Bogota tourist train and you go right by the flowers tents under the flight path into El Dorado Airport). Right next to Bogota's airport to get them to Wal-mart in Des Moines IA the next day. Many many miles from any drug growing area.

Good for Dole and Wal-mart and California growers not and why subsidized with US taxpayer money? It has not seemed to stop the cultivation of coco leaves?

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sanandressi says on Jun 26, 2008, 11:16:

The article above talks about Barack Obama and how he does not support free trade with Colombia. OK but the LIBERALS and American unionists seem to be more concerned with the exploitation of the Colombian workers than they do the impact on CALIFORNIA UNITED STATES thank you. Why little concern for California's loss? I am not saying that Colombian workers should be exploited but it goes to show just how the Republicans and the Democrats politicans do not care about the average Americans they are supposed to represent. The Republicans support the big business and the Democrats are more concerned about the Colombian workers than Americans. Idiots both parties! BOTH!

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Timba says on Jun 27, 2008, 06:58:

The Colombian flower industry has now been destroyed by the African flower industry (that and the strong peso)

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:02:

There have been 17000 layoffs in the flower industry and they have lost 20 billion just this year. The flower industry in Colombia is ailing, most of these farms are closing up and keeping a handful of workers to keep the plants decent so they can lower costs and reopen in Feb and May... Kenya's flower industry is booming. Colombia's flower industry has been moving to Ecuador and Chile...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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gringoloid says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:33:

my girlfriend has a finca near anoliama where younger members of her family used to grow flowers until quite recently. two farms adjacent work together so three farms had forme a cooperative.

in april, they received so little for their crop that they've decided to stop and are getting restaurant jobs until things improve.

they say it's not even worth throwing the seeds in the ground. now this is a small operaton compared to the big boys and them going out of business doesn't affect colombia at all.

with what spanish i can speak, they say not only did they take 50% less for the last crop, but TRANSPORTATION COSTS to the US are killing the deals.

the #5's on the recession contest here at PBH say that not only is colombia unaffected by the US recession but that these people will be "sending the flowers a little further", to sell them.

Please explain.

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miamimike says on Jun 27, 2008, 13:51:

It has to do with the Andean Free Trade thing back in the late 80's or early 90's. I would love to investigate how the USAID branch of the STATE DEPARTMENT helped set this industry up with US taxpayer money
===================================================================

For everyone's Info, it was HW Bush in '91 who passed/signed this Andean Trade pact into Law.How someone could have signed such a one wayed lopsided law into effect that so favored one country over another is perplexing but that is how it is,,,

Obama isn't against trade with Col, he is against Uribe not conducting a really indepth investiagation into the many trade Unionists and newspaper journalists Deaths who have been killed in the last 10 years. A Pitifully small amount of these killers have been brought to true justice. When this happens on Uribe's part, the trade door opens wide. Many countries use this approach, quid pro quo so why should the USA be any different? We used this just recently(yesterday) with the North Koreans with them disassembling their Nuc Reactors so now they get the benefits and have been removed off the World's Terrorist's list.

On exploiting Colombian Worker's in the recent past, look no farther then US Based Blackwater security who ran Ads(a few years back) in Col for ex-military personnel for Iraq Duty then once they signed up many ex-colombian military and got them into Iraq, they cut their wages like 80% from the contractual agreement and worse, after the Colombians refused to work for the newly announced slave wages, Blackwater refused to fly these Colombians back home after they conned them.Blackwater Security is closely aligned with the Bush Adminstration btw,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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tejasmarcos says on Jun 27, 2008, 15:20:

mm - trade unionist & media deaths are not isolated to colombia. every election year it is a similar page in history for almost every latin american country....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 27, 2008, 16:35:

I think the Blackwater situation happened because the contractors-to-be failed to read and understand the contracts before signing. It had the "uh-ohs" in there. The verbal enticements didn't match the promises in writing, but I don't think that's illegal. Unethical, yes, but not illegal.

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Monpirri says on Jun 27, 2008, 16:57:

Cerealkiller says on Jun 27, 2008, 07:02: flag

"There have been 17000 layoffs in the flower industry and they have lost 20 billion just this year. The flower industry in Colombia is ailing, most of these farms are closing up and keeping a handful of workers to keep the plants decent so they can lower costs and reopen in Feb and May... Kenya's flower industry is booming. Colombia's flower industry has been moving to Ecuador and Chile..."

Portadora de buenas noticias, you starting to sound like Rubito.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Monpirri says on Jun 27, 2008, 17:08:

Colombia to Export 300 Million Stems of Certified Florverde(R) Flowers This Valentine's Day

Posted : Wed, 30 Jan 2008 10:01:21 GMT
Author : Colombian Association of Flower Exporters
Category : Press Release

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/colombia-to-export-300-million...

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2008, 00:59:

tejasmarcos says on Jun 27, 2008, 15:20: flag

mm - trade unionist & media deaths are not isolated to colombia. every election year it is a similar page in history for almost every latin american country....
===================================================================

Teja--true but we are talking about Col and the reason Colombia's FTA has not passed.



Tinto==that's not what I read. The Colombian's side of the story is that they were to be paid somewhere around $4k monthly(per contract) and after they arrived in Iraq they were informed of the Pay Change, It had nothing to do with them misunderstanding the original terms. Isn't it strange they, the whole group, would ALL misunderunstand the written terms??? BlaCKWATER is not the most ethical of a Business so I find it easy to believe they would to do this, If I have to beleive someone, it will be the Colombian Group, as Blackwater has already shown their unethical side. And many times at that,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Cerealkiller says on Jun 28, 2008, 01:00:

Monpirri, I am not lying. The only two businesses in Colombia that I know like the back of my hand are flowers and textiles, you can call me an idiot regarding everything else. But coincidentally the cover article for Semana last week was the one that came up with the numbers not me.
As for that press release, obviously flowers are sold during valentines day, its the most important date along with mothers day. But the strong peso, the competition from other Colombians in Ecuador and Chile along with the world's credit crunch (people would rather buy more food than flowers) has pretty much crippled the industry. I am not making this up, go and speak to anyone who knows anything about the flower business.

"Se acabo la fiesta"
Las alarmas están encendidas en los exportadores que estiman en más de 30.000 los empleos que se han perdido. Los confeccionistas y los textileros calculan que han tenido que despedir unas 15.000 personas, y los floricultores cerca de 18.000. Todos los sectores hacen sus propias cuentas del impacto del dólar barato. Los productores de cacao aseguran que dejaron de recibir alrededor de 166.000 millones de pesos en la cosecha de 2007, y los cafeteros dicen que la revaluación es la tercera peste después de la roya y de la broca y que, por su culpa, han dejado de recibir ingresos, en los últimos tres años, por 1,5 billones de pesos.
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=112877

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2008, 01:00:

Tinto, do you have a Link to what you said about the Colombian's misreading the terms of the Blackwater Contract?

"""Bill Sizemore of The Virginian-Pilot has a new article out today that puts a spotlight on some of the behind-the-scenes operations of Blackwater USA, a private security firm co-founded by a major Republican donor from an extremely wealthy and politically well-connected family.

About three dozen former Colombian soldiers are engaged in a pay dispute with Blackwater USA, saying their salaries for security work in Iraq turned out to be one-quarter what they had been promised by recruiters in Bogota.


According to stories published by the Colombian paper Semana and London's Financial Times, the thirty-five Colombians are "mostly seasoned counter insurgency troops." These soldiers say they were promised salaries of $4,000 a month when they were only paid $34 a day, or roughly $1,000 a month.

"We were tricked by the company," one former Colombian army captain was quoted as saying in the Financial Times.

American contractors can earn $10,000 a month or more working for Blackwater and its competitors in Iraq.


Blackwater offered an explanation.

Chris Taylor, a Blackwater spokesman, was quoted by the Financial Times as saying the dispute sprang from a change in contract terms.

"One contract expired, another task order was bid upon, and so the numbers are different," he said.

Taylor also told the Financial Times that the Colombians alleging that they had been hired under false pretenses were offered a release from their contracts, but only two accepted.


Quoted in the story is Doug Brooks, spokesman for the International Peace Operations Association (IPOA), of which Blackwater is a member, and talked about the reasons for such differences in pay. (I still can't get over that. Blackwater makes its money off war and conflict. International peace is not exactly good for them.)

The pay dispute highlights one of the realities of the private military industry's globalized work force, said Doug Brooks, president of the International Peace Operations Association, a Washington-based trade group of which Blackwater is a member.

"People from some countries get paid less than others," Brooks said. "In Iraq, I think the scales are very much related to what they do, the level of risk and their capabilities."

Americans enjoy a natural advantage because they are likely to have better English language skills and higher security clearances, Brooks said.


Foreign nationals working in Iraq is not new. Many of the companies in Iraq import foreign labor to lower costs; even during times of high unemployment rates. However, "former soldiers from Chile, South Africa, the Philippines and a variety of other countries have turned up on the payrolls of private military companies in Iraq, sometimes resulting in political repercussions in their home countries."

Sizemore writes that the Philippines has already banned its citizens from operating in Iraq following deaths in an insurgent attack. South Africa has legislation in Parliament that would "prohibit South Africans from participating in any armed-conflict areas without the permission of their government."

As this story develops, I hope we hear more about these practices. It would be interesting to see what unsavory characters PMCs like Blackwater are recruiting from around the globe. (Which is not to say that the Colombians mentioned in the article are "unsavory" since we know nothing about them specifically. However, when a company searches the globe to recruit mercenaries, one must question what are the minimum specifications for employment.)

With the armed forces struggling to meet recruitment numbers, the chickenhawks cannot be asked to ruffle their feathers and dirty their hands a bit.

Do you seriously belive these Colombian Soldiers would risk their lives in Some Worthless Desert War for $34 per Day ? They could do that right in Colombia and remain on Home Turf! Even if they grabbed an entry level job as a Dishwasher on a contract on a cruise line, as many south americans they could earn much more then this, In Air Conditioned working conditions and without the risk of getting blown up by an IED. No One would be DUMB enough to sign up for Iraq Contract Duty for $34 per day. Ludicrous, even the thought,,,"""""

http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/02/blackwater-recruited-columbian-soldi...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Ctg Bound says on Jul 7, 2008, 15:03:

gringoloid,

I thought No.5 said there would be little affect felt in Colombia, the flower industry is a VERY VERY smalll part of the Colombian economy, even if it went to zero flower growth, it would be a very small amount in the overall economic numbers.

Obviously bad for the people and companies involved, but such is life.

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gringoloid says on Jul 7, 2008, 15:28:

ctg bound.....

the #5's say the growth will be basically unaffected, or just slightly afftected in colomiba. it's the #4;s that say the US recession will not effect colombia greatly. Robi provided the metrics for the #5's. Of course me being a fair man, if it is just slight then you win. also, you have the US side too as not being much different than it was at the beginning of the year. i don't think there is a problem to resolve just yet as the NERB has not even ruled as of today. we'll just have to wait and see.

There is also a multiplier effect of money throughout this very small town of Calchipay. That $7,000 usd they had coming in every couple of months to the town economy i think will be greatly missed. Not just seeds, fertilizers, farming implements........but money not spent at retail stores, restaurants, groceries, etc. these people collecting the money throughout the whole town economy will not be sending that money further either.

sure it is small and i do say in my comment that this has really no effect on colomiba, just a few poor souls. i'm doing the same here as in the states...........checking the monthly gasoline price increase in colombia. if the price hikes stop........then colombia will be ok............if it keeps rising month after month then there will be some effect on the economy.

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