THE COLOMBIAN ROLE

umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 04:05:

Thats too much to read to give a reasonably short answer to it.

UMM

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kernow62 says on Jan 11, 2005, 04:24:

I think you want to hear that the USA is the one responsible for the world's troubles and is the one in charge.

OK it is the fault of the USA.

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isaactraveler says on Jan 11, 2005, 04:36:

please remember that I have short attention span can you resubmit this as 10 separate posts?

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 04:54:

kernow, the USA is really the culprit with their strategy of intervention, as if they knew everything better and Bush doesnt even know any more or less about democracy than any African President...let me give an example....Mugabe.
Bush was already thinking about changing the law so that he could be re-elected more than 1 time.

The USA messes it up every single time, plays the big boss and later...human rights...never heard of it, democracy....never heard of it. Then the others have to clean up the mess.

They also lied about who started the Vietnam war. That the Vietnamese have attacked the USA in the Golf of Tonkin was invented. They go to war because they dont like somebodies nose but never for a real reason.

Noone can tell me the USA is good or that its nice to live there. Its just not true. Its a country of greed and prejudice, no more.

UMM

My Forum

ElViajero says on Jan 11, 2005, 06:15:

Really I have not mentioned USA in the post as the responsable for nothing... "Clearly the rules are those of the economic power, upper politics and good intentions. Even flags are less meaningful before the power of money." So globalitations does not mean the control of any especial government. Really sorry if it was understood like that. Beside all the international critic on USA, its foreign politic and in particulary the Bush´s government, I prefer not to give opinions, because politic is a difficult subject to put in words and lest here. In the other side, deffending Colombia, I ask the same treat for any country and I know a lof of Americans near the suffering of people around the world, so it would not be sincere for me to speak bad about a country where I have a lot of good friends, sensitive people to the world. Globalizations is not a country, but any country today... Colombia itself participes of that logic... It is true, the article was very long and could make this confusion. I am sorry again. The main idea is about solidarity, no politic and I don't discuss about politic.

El Viajero Paisa

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:19:

That's too bad, Umm, my wife really likes it here. She thinks it's great. I'll have to tell her what you said and that she needs to get her butt back to Colombia. Thanks for straightening her out. She must be some kind of idiot. After all you should know.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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umm says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:23:

I have been to gringolandia and I didnt like it.
Its anyway too cold there for me.
Some days ago I talked to a Bangladeshi and he wanted to go to the USA. I told him its just not worth it.
If he were white and rich and republican...then perhaps,
but be handicapped, poor, not really white, liberal in the USA then I promise you: the USA is not the land of the free any more.

UMM

My Forum

utopiacowboy says on Jan 11, 2005, 07:35:

Are you sure you weren't in Canada? Did everyone talk funny? Were they damm Yankees? No wonder you didn't like it. We don't like it there either. BTW, the US is on its way to becoming one of the largest Latino countries in the world. And surprise, surprise, even they are starting to vote Republican. Be careful, don't wanna crack your world view.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gator says on Jan 11, 2005, 08:08:

It's Time to Reevaluate our Involvement! IT'S TIME

Every day there are news reports about more deaths and injuries. Every night on TV there are photographs of death and destruction. Why are we still there?

We occupied this land, which we had to take by force, but it causes us
nothing but trouble. Why are we still there?

Many of our children go there and never come back.
Why are we still there?

The government is unstable, and they have changing leadership.
Why are we still there?

According to our view many of their people are uncivilized.
Why are we still there?

The place is subject to natural disasters. The American taxpayer is expected to bail them out.
Why are we still there?

There are more than 1000 religious sects which we do not understand.
Why are we still there?

Their folkways, foods and fads are unfathomable to ordinary Americans.
Why are we still there?

We can't even secure the borders.
Why are we still there?

They are billions of dollars in debt and it will cost billions more to
rebuild power grids and other infrastructure, which we can't afford. Why are we still there?

It is becoming clear...
...
...
...

WE MUST PULL OUT OF CALIFORNIA!!!!!!!!!

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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Lionheart says on Jan 11, 2005, 11:50:

Globalization I am disecting the long initial post and will be relpying in several smaller posts, grouped by topic.

I am globalization consultant, educating corporations and smaller companies wanting to go global. The risk, differences, and benefits of other other cultures and politics is one topic. The term globalization has been warped in the media, and the USA is the nation last in line understanding globalization. Several Latin American countries, and especially Colombia are on the edge of globalization. Which is reason I will move to Colombia.

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Raleigh1590 says on Jan 11, 2005, 12:19:

Good political views El Viajero Paisa,

That was a good post on a certain political view out there of Colombia. As I see from the other posts, there are other views out there as well. I'm not going to disect your post & tell you where you are wrong in assumptions because it's your view & I see everything you just said.

You are right, many people don't understand the huge economic value of Colombia's flower & coffee & textile businesses, and choose to associate it with cocaine poverty & violence. I make sure to correct every American who associates those things. Colombia is not at all poor, but political change has to be taken one step at a time.

Education, I believe, is the most important factor of success. Most of the Colombians I know in this country are very very well educated (from the Colombian education system), but you say that the education system there is lacking? Is this because the most educated/wealthy travel abroad to get an advantage and the poorer don't have that same opportunity so the wealthy stay wealthy through superior education? The US certainly does not have the best education system either. We consistantly rank below other developed countries. I understand that due to all the bureaucracy of other political affairs, education often gets neglected in political change. It is definately something that needs to be improved in the US as well as Colombia. Better teachers. More commitment to learning.

I agree that if you travel there to enjoy the beauty of the mountains, the people, the country, you should consider doing your part to return the favor in the form of charities or giving your time to help improve the nation. I believe President Uribe is doing a good job taming the militant forces out there, and that is an important first step. Colombia needs a series of good, committed leaders who not only know how to harness the economic value of the inner country, but also the outside world. Globalization and trade is the key to future prosperity. Providing more class mobilization (transfers between classes) through ambition & initiative is also important to inspire the people to follow a legal lifestyle to wealth & stay away from crime.

This is getting too long & boring. My apologies. Thanks for listening!

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santiBOG says on Jan 11, 2005, 15:15:

Viajero, you can't deny that it's mostly the gringo mentality that ADORES stereotypes. The U.S. media keeps feeding the poor bastards with narrow and skewed views on international topics. No wonder thare are so many morons in the U.S. that support Bush and his invasion of Iraq.

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lpdiver says on Jan 11, 2005, 17:39:

Yankees Every one that lives north of Interstate 10 is a yankee according to my coonass friends...jejeje

"cook some rice!"

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lpdiver says on Jan 11, 2005, 17:47:

Make the drugs legal In other words walk away from the "war" on drugs.

"cook some rice!"

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 11, 2005, 19:34:

Good thing I live south of I-10. Of course the Alamo is just north of I-10 too.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ColombianoX says on Jan 11, 2005, 20:37:

"I am always puzzled when Colombians say they aren't presented fairly in the media."

Tinto,

The reason we say we aren't represented fairly in the media is simple, there is a much greater tendency to focus on the bad news than the good news by the US media and you should know this by now. You mentioned that National Geographic (I assume you meant the magazine?) has covered the country, but how about the Discovery Channel, the Travel Channel, or even the National Geographic Channel?

How about if one of those channels or the news channels covered the Carnaval de Barranquilla, the Feria de Cali, the many beauty pageants, ColombiaModa, the deserts, the Gold Museum, the snow-capped volcanoes, Cartagena, the Carnaval de Blancos y Negros, the MetroCable, the Feria de Manizales, cumbia and vallenato, the Salt Cathedral, the colonial architecture, Bogota Fashion Week, the botero Museum, Bogota's Iberomerican Theater Festival, etc.? Don't you think there are (north) americans who would be interested in seeing such a vibrant and thriving culture coming from such a battered nation? I'm sure there are. How about if the media actually gave US viewers a glimpse of our great cities and beautiful, picturesque scenery? I think (north)americans have the right to see the immense beauty that exists in such a castigated nation, don't you?


"why should they seek out information on Colombia? It's one country out of 192 if they want to keep up with current events.

Because Colombia is a heck of a lot closer (and larger) than countries like Great Britain, France, Italy, or Israel, yet those countries are covered so much more positivley and extensibly by the US media. I'm surprised by your point of view on this, you've always seemed like a true admirer of Colombia and its culture to me, and I would have thought you of all people would like your fellow (north)americans to learn about and discover the Colombia you know.


"In summmary, Colombia doesn't have an outsized influence on the U.S., except for drugs, and that's the subject most people say we already hear too much about."

I'm not worried Tinto, with the rapidly growing colombian and latino population in the US and President Uribe's leadership, I'm confident Colombia will be receiving a lot more POSITIVE exposure in the near future.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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RicardoS says on Jan 11, 2005, 22:03:

Our role in the global village. I think our role in the awesome global play, is that of the little kid that wants to grow and be a great man, and is really a good boy, but you know, he's really sick, he has a bad case of tourettes, and an even worst case of schizophrenia, so he does bad things without even knowing it, and even if he tries really hard he would never be recognized as a good boy, 'cause he's sick and can be very bad in any moment. Because it's easier to remember that he's sick and unstable, than acknowledging that he's brilliant and ultimately a really good boy.

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oldbongo says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:20:

senorito RicardoS that is sweet, sweet, sweet,....thank you for the image.

tragedy begets tragedy and it sucks.

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Lionheart says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:32:

Ricardo, nicely put Like a good parent you need to believe in your child. The neighbors may not believe in your child, the schools may not believe in your child, and society may not believe in your child.

Believe in your child, nourish your child, give your child all the love you can give. The child will grow and flourish. And one day the neighbors, the schools, and society will open their eyes and not see the sick undeserving child anymore. Instead they will see a strong young person ready to take on the world, not needing the neighbors, the schools, or society that did not believe in the child. But the strong young person will remember the parents who believed in the child and that young person will make the parents proud.

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ElViajero says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:39:

Okis friends… sure… I promise I shall be shorter in my posts…

1. I am not against globalization: enemies of globalization seem to me as the feudal of the Middle Age against the new class of the cities. I belong entirely to this century. Globalization, being born in an economic context and with early beginnings since the discover of America, has a lot of benefits for humanity. The last Tsunami in the Indian sea was in 1883 caused by the Krakatoa volcano… In that time the world was less concern about the victims as today we are, thanks to our modern globalization. This discussion, for example, can be only because we have Internet, though we all are far away in the planet.
2. Of course, if I have not intentions to “demonizar� globalization (I use the Spanish term because I don’t know the correct term in English), I haven’t also the intention to say that it is the right ideal of our planet, since it has its great limits: for example, there is more poverty in the planet today than before (maybe I am wrong). To which kind of globalization we must address our entire human community? That’s the ethical question.
3. I did not point out USA as the author or first responsible of globalization… not I have mention “interventionism� or “imperialism� with these… that is a tinto for other hall. Colombia, New Zeland, Malta and, of course, USA, have big responsibility of which world we want to have.
4. Solidarity… it is the idea… in the logic of globalization (no intervention), we can globalize solidarity. Sure… tourism to Colombia, very welcome… the tourism itself is a good hand to a country. In the Colombia case, it is a good way to say “I believe in you, Colombia.� Good also the inversion in it, and the good courage to all those small Colombian business people, for example. Support to all those artists, to sport, to the Colombian industry… and solidarity, of course. No paternalism. The affluence of tourism gives an idea of how is the situation in a country… I think few Colombian tourists would go now to visit Baghdad, even free.
5. The role of Colombia is also our responsibility. I call the attention on the deep causes of what Colombia is today for the World. “Nada del hombre me es ajeno�, said the philosopher. What happen today in Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka… is my concern also. Remember that according with the scientist, the earthquake in the Malaysia plateau was so strong that has made vibrate the rotation of our entire planet (we didn’t feel that, but all of us, from Iceland to Islas Malvinas, were vibrating in the space, as a bell). Just to say that all of us are connected and we can not be indifferent of what happen to others.

I stop here… sorry… we Colombians talk a lot…

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oldbongo says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:43:

leon... that is sap, sap, sap,....cheeese.

sometimes the kid stays unstable and schizoid,
and it gets worse until he self-destructs,
regardless of heroic belief.

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ElViajero says on Jan 12, 2005, 00:50:

Raleigh1590… I do believe in the Colombian system of education… Literacy in Colombia is up 90%, and that is excellent. But there is a unbalance… so much professionals, few jobs for them… so much young people that think that only university gives the key to happiness, less technicians. More affluences to the cities, the countryside becoming a war camp or a “finca de veraneo�. A countryside boy has little opportunities to a good education, so he must go to the big cities.

(El Viajero hablador keeping his promise to be un hombre de pocos palabras)

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Lionheart says on Jan 12, 2005, 01:16:

cheesy I agree ... it sounds cheesy, oldgringo ...

Nevertheless you say Colombia can't change for its better, it is as good as dead, and I say Colombia has a good chance to become better if it finds support from within, people who believe in a future for Colombia.

You have your opinion, I have mine, may Colombia decide who is right.

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oldbongo says on Jan 12, 2005, 01:37:

leon... please...the oldgringo said nada anti-colombia..

if he were anti-colombiano, he would not likely
choose to go there scores of times,accumulate years
of resident perspective,and mix blood with its best example
of honour, hope,and compassion...HE LOVES COLOMBIA....

as he loves his sisters kid, who,despite heroic belief,self-destructs.

enough with the analogies...ricardo said it nicely

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Lionheart says on Jan 12, 2005, 01:48:

oldgringo sorry if I misunderstood you, it sounded like you were giving up on Colombia.

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