Terrified but have to go to Colombia

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2004, 09:52:

Buga is a small town about an hour's drive from Cali, in the heart of the Cauca Valley. As far as I know, the road to Buga has had few incidents and is heavily trafficked. Don't worry about blending in, there's plenty of small white girls in that area:) Is there any reason for you to suspect that you wouldn't be let out of the country? People do travel back and forth from Colombia all the time. I was in Cali less than a year ago, and I'm Scandinavian, as white as we come, and blonde. Who wouldn't let you travel out of the country? Your boyfriend? People is Buga are really sweet and friendly. Just don't go roaming the countryside, venture into the jungles or mountains, and you should be alright.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2004, 11:54:

VIVA COLOMBIAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Raven,

I know you don't mean to offend anyone but you have. Ignorant and xenophobic attitudes like these from anglo-americans (and other non-colombians) make me sick! I suggest you do a little research with this rectangular object you are staring at and maybe you will learn that Colombia is a lot more than all of the biased crap you've heard about. You're not going to Iraq where there are bombs going off just about every day in any place, the conflict in Colombia largely takes place in the countryside and in the jungles.
Colombia is the only country in the world that is carribean, andean, pacific, and amazonian! It is latin america's oldest democracy and has always had one of the regions strongest democracies. Colombia has snow-capped peaks, beautiful beaches, large modern cities, deserts, tropical rain forests, gorgeous emerald-green mountains, and near-perfect weather. And speaking of emeralds, Colombia is the world's leading producer of these lovely gems! Colombia also has more fauna and flora per unit area than any other nation on earth. Colombia also has more species of birds and amphibians than any other country. Colombia is also the world's second producer of coffee (the best coffee in the world) and flowers. Those roses your boyfriend gives you most probably come from Colombia! Colombia also produces oil, coal, textiles, nickel, sugar, cotton, pharmaceuticals, and many other manufactures goods. And then there's the colombian people who are the friendliest, warmest, kindest, hospitable, and most cheerful people you will ever meet. There's always a carnaval, fair, beauty pageant, or party going on somewhere in Colombia.

Now I guarantee you that once you get there you will be convinced that this is the most beautiful place your southern eyes have ever seen! Sometimes I think that the news media in the U.S. purposely focus only on the negative aspects of Colombia. Maybe they don't want people to find out how beautiful it really is, who knows? I suggest you go and enjoy, you will be "terrified", but by Colombia's beauty!

Here are some websites about Colombia that I recommend:

www.yocreoencolombia.com
www.theotherlookofcolombia.com
www.colombiaemb.org

Poor but snappy

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2004, 12:09:

And another one... http://samiluc.home.att.net/index.htm



The woman who created this site is very artistic. She designed custom graphics - similar to cartoon figures - of Colombianos in traditional clothes. I think her sister also makes clothes in the same style for dolls.

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TioCharlie says on Jan 9, 2004, 13:46:

Colombia is safe, just use common sense I was in the Santa Marta - Cartegenna - Barranquilla area of Colombia during August of 2003. Overall, I found everyone I met to be rather nice and easy going. But remember, these are cities, and try to avoid some of the same dangers you would try to avoid in any city in the U.S

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2004, 14:15:

Excited to go to Colombia My husband's parents (US citizens) live/work in Colombia and they love it. It has become home for them. The American media hypes up the negative aspects of it. Yes it can be dangerous - but so can the bad parts of New York City. You just have to know where you are, what not to do, and keep a good head on your shoulders. It's like anywhere else - you take the bad with the good. And there are many great things about Colombia.
Colombia is lovely. It has a beaches, tropical paradises, mountain scenes and many of the people there are more friendly than the people in the US.
I hope that you open yourself up to the experience and learn (as I have) that it is a wonderful place.

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 9, 2004, 22:04:

I agree with you completely that Colombia is a wonderful place with hospitable people. I am married to a Colombiana and I have been there many times. However, it is a dangerous place and anyone who goes there thinking that it is not dangerous is asking for trouble. No need to be paranoid just sensible and cautious. OK, maybe a little paranoia would not be a bad thing. My wife has lived in Medellin 24 years and although 4 other people in her building have been kidnapped, a neighbor was shot in the head by a couple of moped assasins (it was an accident - they meant to shoot someone else!), a city bus she was recently riding in Itaqui was hijacked and robbed (she escaped harm), and a car she was riding in was shot at by gunmen after the driver carelessly cut someone else off, her life in Medellin has been uneventful.

Poor but snappy

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ColombianoX says on Jan 10, 2004, 12:26:

DON'T JUDGE COLOMBIA BY STUPID HOLLYWOOD MOVIES Raven,

You said that what you know about Colombia comes from movies such as "Proof of Life" (which doesn't even take place in Colombia, but in a fictional country!) Imagine if colombians were to judge (north) americans by what they saw in movies such as "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre", "Boyz N the Hood", "Menace to Society", or "Deliverance"? That wouldn't be a very fair assessment of the United States, would it? Oh, and by the way, I wrote the second response to this topic.
ColombianoX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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TioCharlie says on Jan 10, 2004, 20:37:

If you want to wet your toes .... Miami has a very large Colombian community. Why not take a "dry run" as it were to Miami, you can meet/interact with many Colombians, try to make some friends, brush up on your Spanish,etc. before you go to colombia. But I am sure that the actual trip to colombia will amaze you... seriously I have never encoutered a more friendly group of people. It is a shame that there are problems there, but there are problems everywhere; if you wait until everything is perfect then I fear you will never go and experience this wonderful country.

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sebasenbogotá says on Jan 10, 2004, 20:57:

YOu will love it FIrst, i think you shouldn't believe all you hear or what the media tries to sell you, is all biased, and with the idea of selling, so they will allways tell you the bad things, and sadly Colombia is an easy target for the international criticism. It is truly a beautiful place, also the panamerican highway that connects CAli with Buga is probably one of the safest in teh country also the fastest, and the landscape of the Valley is beatiful you may even head to the coffee zone and you will se real breathtaking landscapes.
Secondly more than 20% of Colombia's population is white, do you think Northamericans and europeans are the only whites in the world, Colombia is not just rich in nature but also in people's variety0 Colombians will be extremely happy to have you there, also keep in mind that despite of being a poor country you will find the same facilities you find in your beloved Gerogia, Colombians also have a western background, but surely are a extremely happy, warm hearted and welcoming people, try to learn a little bit of spanish that will help you a lot.
so remember you just have to be smart and careful Colombia is as safe as any other latin country, please don't believe all of that BS that your media is trying to put into your mind.

Bye,
have a good time there, dance a lot and I bet you wont ever forget that experience

Suerte ! Sebas

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 11, 2004, 16:59:

enjoy Colombia But be careful I am a Colombian who live in Usa with my American Husband, we have been in Colombia several times and have had the best time but always being very careful, Cali is a big city so you have to take the precautions you take when visiting an unknown big City , do not travel at night, always know your destination, Have fun in colombia because it is a beutiful contry, wonderful people and this you are not go to find in CNN or those horrible movies enjoy y un beso para mi tierra

Poor but snappy

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ColombianoX says on Jan 13, 2004, 17:46:

Raven,

I suggest you read this article:

http://www.yocreoencolombia.com/pdf/Colombia_My_Mother_Country.pdf?pid=hn_13112002305104_jb1

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 13, 2004, 19:21:

www.caligringo.com Raven check out www.caligringo.com (when it's up, it went down yesterday) for more gringo info on Colombia. It's a site geared to men but girls can look.

Poor but snappy

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ColombianoX says on Jan 13, 2004, 21:00:

MORE RESPECT FOR COLOMBIA! "Colombia - notorious for drug cartels, kidnapping, guerrilla violence - so why would a gringo want to go to Colombia, especially Cali?"

I went to this caligringo website and this is the first thing I see. Why is it necessary to post these negative things about Colombia in this websites introduction? I frankly think that its offensive and disrespectful. Why not write something positive like "Colombia-a beautiful tropical country, etc"? Something negative could be written about every country in the world, yet I see that Colombia is almost always described in this nonflattering manner by foreigners, what a shame that we live in such a racist world.

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 13, 2004, 21:18:

caligringo site Caligringo site's main focus is creating opportunuities to make money on sex business and introductionary agencies in Colombia. It's solely and single-mindedly dedicated to bring lonely and unhappy gringoes to Colombia, especially Cali to party, have fun and maybe, why not, against a fee, find a future spouse in Colombia, where *girls are young, pliable and warm-hearted* vs *american bitches".
Cheers

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 08:30:

100 THINGS TO DO IN BOGOTA (Not necessarily in order of importance)

1. Marry a Colombian. However, be sure that besides loving him or her you
also love his or her family. This includes mother and father in law,
brother and sister in law, auncles, aunts, cousins and friends.
2. Be British. If you are not British, try to look like one.
3. Be polite and kind to everybody and speak correctly.
4. Do exactly the opposite of what you would do if you're driving a car.
5. Talk about the weather, especially if it's a cold day.
6. Dress elegantly. If you cannot afford it, then dress in your worst
clothes. At least you would look like an eccentric.
7. Always carry an umbrella with you. If it doesn't rain you can use it to
catch anyone who is trying to get away with your watch.
8. Drink aguardiente if there is no whisky, gin or vodka. Always claim it
is delicious.
9. Always praise te elegance of your partner, even if it's not true.
10. Call everyone "Doctor" even if they are not M.Ds.
11. Learn to speak Bogotano slang. Also learn certain soccially acceptable
four letter words (there are some).
12. Talk to everyone of "Ud." except persons of your same age to whom you
shall address as "Tu". However, use "Ud" with your closest friends.
13. Leave Bogota during the weekends. Go to Cartagena if you have the
money. If you cannot afford it, go to Melgar or Girardot. (At least you
can say you went to Cartagena).
14. Visit your friends that have a "finca" in the Sabana. Do this
especially on a Sunday.
15. Write or learn a poem to be accepted into intellectual circles.
16. Send flowers when you are invited to dinner.
17. Learn to eat typical food but beware of cholesterol.
18. Have foreign friends if you are a sportsman, a hunter, a fisherman or
an explorer.
19. Always be polite with secretaries and officials. You never know when
they'll be able to get you out of trouble.
20. Have Colombian friends if you are a good conversationalist.
21. If you're invited to dinner arrive at least an hour late if you don't
want to find your hosts in the shower or with hari curlers.
22. If you are invited to lunch during the weekends, then arrive at least
an hour and a half late.
23. Always eat something before going to any dinner that you have been
invited. Most probably you won't be served until midnight.
24. Learn to drink herb tea or "aguitas" as they are called in Colombia if
you don't want to drink tinto (black coffee). Tinto will probably keep you
awaje the whole night.
25. Use your watch in your right arm if you like driving with your windows
open.
26. Buy lottery tickets but watch the drawing date carefully.
27. Go to a bullfight at least once a year.
28. Learn to dance "Cumbia". However, don't try to dance like a costen~o
(inhabitant of the Caribean region), you'll become frustrated.
29. Have lunch in a typical restaurant at least once every three months.
30. Have friends who are lawyers (an easy thing in Bogota). They can help
you resolve eventual problems.
31. If you are flying to a local destination arrive at the airport at least
a half an hour before your plane departs.
32. If your flight is an international one or one to the Atlantic coast
during the holidays, then arrive at least two hours before your plane departs.
33. Get acquainted with a "beautiful" person.
34. Learn to dance salsa
35. Listen and sing to Mexican music, especially when the parties last too
long.
36. Go to concerts.
37. Laugh at jokes, especially political ones.
38. Read Osuna's comic strips in the Sunday edition of "El Espectador".
39. Read the editor's notes in the newspapers from time to time.
40. Believe only fifty percent of what you are told. Bogotanos, like good
latins, often tend to exagerate.
41. Learn to exxagerate without being noticed.
42. Go to modern art exhibits and try to chat with the artists.
43. Try to meet a Colombian painter.
44. Admire Alejandro Obregon and Fernando Botero.
45. Talk about the cost of living.
46. Learn about pre-Columbian art and be able to distinguish among the
different native cultures.
47. Know who the presidential candidates are, especially if the president
has just been elected.
48. Be compassionate of "gamines" (poor children of the street) but be
careful with your wallet.
49. If you smoke, try black tobbaco. (it will help you quit).
50. When you greet someone ask him or her about his or her relatives, even
if you don't know them.
51. Read at least one book by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
52. Read the comic strips in the newspapers.
53. Go to Cartagena to fall in love.
54. Visit Boyaca, you will feel that time has stopped.
55. Go to the salt mines of Zipaquira, However, only visit them once.
56. Be a lawyer. If you are not one then act like one (see No. 5 of the
"Things not to do in Bogota).
57. Remember at all times that you are 2.6000 mts above sea level in the Andes.
58. Have good friends for the bad times because you will always have
friends for the good times.
59. Travel to the Atlantic coast (Cartagena or Santa Marta) if you want
nice beaches.
60. Go to Medellin if you want to learn how to make money.
61. Get mad when the phone operator does not answer.
62. Dress in dark colors.
63. Be prepared when there's a power failure. Candles and matches might
come in handy.
64. If you are not a "Doctor" then say you prefer to be called "Sen~or".
(See No. 63 of the "Things not to do in Bogota).
65. Be polite with customs officials, remember that they have the power at
the border.
66. Call every carpenter, painter and handymen "Maestro".
67. Also call every poet, sculptor, and artist "Maestro".
68. Have friends at all social levels and always accept their invitations.
69. Buy shoes and leather goods.
70. Buy men's clothes.
71. Have a capuccino at OMA, PIMMs or Il Pomeriggio.
72. Drink national beer.
73. Visit a "finca" in warm temperatures, a coffee plantation is your best bet.
74. Travel to San Agustin and Tierradentro. However, confirm your hotel
reservations many times.
75. Ask for discounts everywhere, especially marketplaces.
76. Always ask the tailor or the carpenter what their final price will be.
77. If there is a holiday in the middle of the week, take the rest of the
week off.
78. Always have fresh flowers, they don't cost much.
79. Learn to cross streets "bullfighting" with the cars.
80. Decorate your appartment with ferns and other big plants.
81. Admire the mechanics who keep alive Fords and Chevies from the fifties.
82. Learn to drive in mountainous roads without street signs or indicators.
83. Drive on the right side of the road (See No. 93 of the "Things not to do")
84. If you don't want to have an accident remember that the buses always
have the right way.
85. Eat empanadas (meat pies) on Sundays.
86. Try the tamales as well.
87. Always walk straight ahead, but beware of the many holes.
88. Permit women to contradict themselves, it is their priviledge.
89. If you are not in a hurry, fly AVIANCA.
90. Eat pizza if you are on a low budget, if not, eat pizza anyway.
91. Live in the northern part of town.
92. Buy avocados on the streets.
93. Don't miss the 8:00 pm Soap Operas.
94. Eat papaya for breakfast. They say it is good for the heart.
95. Enjoy the small pleasures of life.
96. Have a good sense of humor, you will live much better.
97. Own a 4X4.
98. Beware of dishonest people.
99. Remember these recommendations when you go to Colombia and.........
100. Send me new ones you discover.

Poor but snappy

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 08:39:

Calling Peter, come in Peter... When you return from your visit to Colombia, some of the links and lists above might be appropriate for an article or resources link on your site? As you know, there are several English language sites out there along the lines of "Colombia Positiva" - it would be nice to get them in one place. -Tinto



P.S. Anonymous, I like your 100 list immediately above. :-)

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 10:18:

add terrorist to that list:)

Poor but snappy

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SiV says on Jan 14, 2004, 10:37:

Death in Colombia Ignore all those comments trying to assuage your fears: you´re going to die a horrible, painful death within hours of arriving! Or at least a prolongued kidnapping with little prospect of release . . .
Only joking! Calm down girl, you´ll be OK. Read the other posts on this site about safety. And the road cali- Buga is very safe. . .

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 12:52:

getreal I just got back from there..and YES you do stand out like a sore thumb and EVERYONE see's you as a target to get as much money from as possible. Tell your boyfriend you'll stay home and pine for him everyday. Or maybe you can compromise and go to Cuba-at least there is security there-people get mugged on the street in broad day light by street kids in Bogota...don't be square BEWARE!

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 13:10:

So, Getreal, did you have a good time or not?

Poor but snappy

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ShazCas says on Jan 14, 2004, 13:39:

Where are the 100 things not to do? Loved your list, anonymous. Where's the list of 100 things not to do? Don't agree with living in the north, though. It's so boring! Raven, do let us know how you got on!

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 21:25:

Terrifying Photos and list additions

Some TERRIFYING pictures of Valle Cauca and Buga:

These need to be on the list:
Do not slam or even close doors hard. Houses, cars, microwave ovens. Especially Taxi's. Colombian taxi drivers are adept at having their hand on the door, they expect you to shut it hard,, you can fool them everytime.

When buying services expect them not to meet your requirements. Then when they do you will be very happy indeed. If they don't,, well,, you thought they would be one third the price,, so not such a good deal not but you are happy.

Do not plan to do anything between noon and two. Take a nap.

I doubt the subjects original post,, come on,, she can't talk with her friend. I'd worry more about where I'd stay in Cali the night I arrive because most flights get in late at night. Another thing,, drive to Buga? Family has a car? Not staying with relatives? Road safety? Taxi's can be rented between Cali / Buga, Microbuses and other transportation,, maybe 6 bucks for two people.

The cathedral in Buga is beautiful. A big tourist attraction. Lots of little hotels at the square or within one block of church. Remember price being about 12 to 15 dollars a night. There is one 5 star hotel. 100 + USD per night. Oh,,, could be a big problem if you are going around Easter. The town is "loaded".

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 22:48:

I had to laugh when I read the above comment about slamming doors hard. North Americans love to slam doors and it drives Colombians crazy. It's not like the place is quiet or anything - it's noisy as hell and everyone's honking their horn. But God forbid you slam a car door! Whoa! Also they love pistachios. Stop at the grocery before you leave and buy several pounds of pistachios - hand them out and you'll make friends everywhere you go. I can't explain it but it's true.

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 22:51:

Ha! Ha! I gave my Colombian brother-in-law a pound of pistachios and he was so happy - he kept asking me if they were really for him. You'd think that I had just given him the Holy Grail.

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 14, 2004, 23:18:

Nutty gifts Right on !! Didn't think of pistachios,, Took some pecans for the parrot last time. I've never so much as lost a dollar,,, but I swear, that bird didn't get more than two.

Poor but snappy

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CaliGringo says on Jan 17, 2004, 03:03:

To Raven, best advice is to ignore what you've received here! Good thing I browsed by, looks like Peter has finally installed some real software to weed out the anonymous posters, kudos - board is looking up :)

Now I should enlighten a tad,

To Anonymous (aka www.caligringo.com post): Thanks for the plug - yeah I guess on the surface it would appear geared towards men, but that just reflects the realistic ratio of the sexes that will actually visit Colombia. We welcome gringas & colombianas at CaliGringo.com

To ColombianoX (aka MORE RESPECT FOR COLOMBIA!): I guess you didn't read down 2 lines on the home page? It's an oxymoron - get it? I have nothing but respect for Colombia and if all goes as planned I will be retiring there ASAP permanently (already have a place there). Racist? WTF? Have you ever been to Colombia?

Aahh last but not least "Desideria" (aka caligringo site): If you would check our forums {you must be registered to see/post in many areas} you will find that we have areas for reviewing the introduction agencies - we just assimilate the truth, whatever that may be - we are not affiliated with any agency. The idea at CaliGringo.com is to consolidate pertinent info into organized buckets for those with an interest in Colombia. We don't dwell on "is it safe to go to Colombia". We drill down into the good stuff - where to go, what line and what time for that visa renewal, etc.. - you know, stuff that's of benefit. Desideria I extend my invite to you to participate - maybe you can enlighten us on the sex business since your such an expert on Colombia? We're not for profit. But if you know of some info in that area by all means post it - we don't discriminate and we hold nothing back.

Now finally, back to raven and her question:
(aka Terrified but have to go to Colombia)
raven, you should be thrilled about your trip! You will be with locals that are "in the know" - you'll be fine and I promise you once there you'll wonder what all the hype was about - and you probably won't want to return! In case you haven't done so - get your passport if you don't have one - now. The only thing you may find uncomfortable is the potential of a roadblock (checkpoint) on your way to Buga - that's normal and you get used to it. I lost count of how many times we were checked on a recent excursion from Cali to zona cafetera. I believe my pics are still loaded up at picturetrail.com from that excursion,
maybe it'll make you feel more comfortable checking them out:
(1) Go to http://www.picturetrail.com/
(2) Type "caligringo" in the visit album box then click go
(3) You'll need a password to enter each album, the password is
(drumroll)
The password is a 4 digit number:

* The 1st digit is the number of basketball players permitted on court for a regulation team
* The 2nd and 3rd digits are the 1st digit multiplied by 3
* The 4th digit is the sum of the 2nd & 3rd
(Hint - the sum of all digits is 17)

Now if any of you "experts" would like to partake in a non-anonymous discussion of issues pertaining to Colombia, please browse by CaliGringo.com

ciao

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 17, 2004, 11:19:

last but not least I cannot help you with info about sex business, because I don't have any (info) and don't want to know. I was browsing through your forums and wasn't overly impressed. All the information about hotels and dining and partying in Cali have been extensively discussed on other Colombia-related sites, so I have not read anything that I didn't already know. That's not my main objection, though, it's good that different aspects of Colombia and Cali are widely discussed and from different viewpoints.
I think that your overall treatment of women in the site is an anachronism. You and your cronies make it look like all young, pretty caleñas were just set there for your amusement and to make you feel like you owned the place. I am sure that many unfortunate girls from lower srtatas would feel themselves lucky if they good hook up with a wealthy gringo. I'd rather see them going to school and getting an education. Enough said, each to his/her own kind:) Thank you for your kind invitation to join your all-male club. I'll have to decline though, I'd feel very uncomfortable being the only bitch in your kennel.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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CaliGringo says on Jan 17, 2004, 20:56:

Desideria - ciao If you've got a problem with the cover photo, I understand - but take that up with Colombia's mainstream media - it's just a link. Can you say El-Pais?

No point in discussing this further, you have nothing of substance to say and obviously did not sign in to view the forum content, I was hoping for more. A bitch in the kennel is not such a bad thing BTW. Have you ever stepped foot in Colombia?

cheers

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 17, 2004, 22:18:

It looks like you are trying to make money getting hookers for the Americans that travel to Colombia. I think the problem she has is that it is a sex business.

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2004, 02:45:

It's never easy to say goodbye You're right about that: I have nothing substancial to say,nothing that you would like to hear anyway, because I'm one of those despised "gringas" (even if I'm not), who don't make an effort to cater to any man's ego, only to give praise where it's due.
And no, I didn't sign in and browse through all your forums, only the ones that were available to guests. I have no problem with your cover photo, even if it is in bad taste: it's just a picture. I have a serious impediment understanding the kind of mentality that would exploit women in the way you and your *kennel* does. The story about Batman's House was truly pathetic reading. I'm not saying that all the people who have signed up in your site have this misogyn view of women, I'm sure most of them don't, but it's you who sets the tone and the lead. The thread about Popayan was a notable exception, with some really nice photos about that city that I like so much.
Have I ever set a foot in Colombia? Yes, both feet as a matter of fact. I have lived in Cali a large portion of my life. My family is still there, in San Fernando Viejo, El Lido, Tequendama. I've been to Cali three times in the last three years, each time 4-6 weeks. It's just that when I lived there I was just me, an individual, I learned the language, lived with them as one of them. I was not a *CaliGringa*. I wasn't trying to make money exploiting young women in desperate need of funds, I was trying to educate children so that they would not find themselves in that position. I obviously failed.
I hate child prostitution and exploitation of children and young people in any way. That's what makes me angry when I see these pictures of half-naked little girls with silicone breast, but not yet out of puberty. As I already stated, I'd much rather see them wearing the plaid school uniforms and getting an education than selling themselves to foreigners.

Poor but snappy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2004, 02:48:

it's never easy... The previous comment was written by me, of course. I thought I had logged in, but something happened and it came out "anonymous".

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Ronthen2003 says on Jan 18, 2004, 06:41:

I dunno.... I've gleaned a lot of useful information on Caligringo, and on the whole, most of the members seem very anxious to help out and answer questions.

Ron

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2004, 07:58:

Did I miss it ? Read Desideria's post. Immediately returned to site to find out what I'd missed. Big disappointment, couldn't find any sex topics, no exploiting of young women, didn't see anything about the bat cave, not really easy to navigate,, or maybe it was the fact most forums were closed and requested a login?
I think desideria is a little,, errrr,, one can short of a six pack,, maybe more.
Triste, a grown person posting about and looking at child Prono,, probably not even Colombian,,, muy, muy, triste.

The attitude of the poster is another reason why I like spending half my time in Colombia. Too much of this attitude in United States.

Poor but snappy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2004, 09:19:

yes, no and yes Yes, you missed the point because the links have been removed. I didn't see them either this time. The site's been up for a while now,and B. has done a lot of work to make it look more respectable. I guess he hides most of the dirt behind those locked doors now:)
I can understand that many of the guys here (especially the little older ones) have a problem with the "attitude". Get used to it, because many educated Colombianas are catching up very rapidly. Or move further south.
Ron, yes, I'm sure you did get good answers from the kennel. On the whole, I suspect that most of the guys there are well-meaning. Too bad you didn't post your questions on ColombiaExperts, which has a much wider platform.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 18, 2004, 10:02:

so sorry I'm sorry to have spoiled your fun.
My contribution: Don't go to Colombia expecting that everybody and everything is available to you just because you bring dollars,
saludos,
Desi (sad and misunderstood by all)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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poco says on Jan 18, 2004, 13:57:

Attitude/Latitude Sorry Tinto: I'll do a 25 NOT list later. A good idea.

Had to make a comment about this reply to a post:

You're right about that: I have nothing substantial to say, nothing that you would like to hear anyway, because I'm one of those despised "gringas" (even if I'm not), who don't make an effort to cater to any man's ego, only to give praise where it's due.

Unfortunately,, this is true about many women, Not all,, but statement is much more the attitude of many more women in the U.S. vrs: Colombia.

The South America / Latin America culture is totally different. Children were raised differently.

United States attitude:
Where it’s due….In the womans estimation.
Don’t make an effort Man should have done something “positive�.
Cater No reason to be particularly attentive or solicitous

Colombia attitude
Where it's due They do not think this way, A man has to do nothing “positive�.
Don’t make an effort,, Near as I can tell being a "nice guy" is enough.
Cater,, No reason NOT to be particularly attentive or solicitious. Automatic, that is how they think.

Attraction to South American women is similar to driving a Mercedes or a Toyota Corolla. Both are fine but in the estimation of many, one is better.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2004, 11:04:

this sucks you suck piece of shit u cock sucker motherfucker!!!!!!

Poor but snappy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2004, 12:45:

attitude At least our attitude is an honest one.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2004, 13:16:

The attitude of the Colombianas (speaking generally) is an honest one as well. Most men find their attitude far more pleasing.

Poor but snappy

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Peter (Moderator) says on Jan 19, 2004, 16:44:

this sucks2 Quit looking at this board a few months ago. There were many of these comments, was hoping it was fixed. Maybe next month.

Think "Caller ID"

Poor but snappy

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malaga305 says on Feb 3, 2004, 04:32:

You'll be just fine Raven. My girlfriend lives in Buga. I know how you're feeling right now as I went through the exact same thing before my first trip. I've gone down there twice in the past year (going again in about 3 weeks) and each time I felt perfectly safe. You'll definitely get some strange looks being that you're white (they can spot Americans a mile away down there) but mostly out of curiosity. Overall Buga is a nice little town with really friendly people. Don't sweat it. As long as you stay with your boyfriend or his family/friends and don't go wandering off too far by yourself you should really enjoy your trip. BTW, hopefully your Spanish is decent as I encountered zero people that spoke English there.

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isaactraveler says on Feb 5, 2004, 00:10:

go and have fun~! Raven... I just returned from spending 2 weeks in Bogota and in Armenia. I went to meet a wonderful woman that I had met via the internet on Match.com. she is great, her family is wonderful ( all 11 aunts and uncles and the 91 year old grandma) Mostly, I behaved and was a good american.

I dont think your questions and fears are misplaced, based on what I had also read about Colombia. However, I did what you are doing.. went to these forums and to caligringo and read up on what was really going on. result: fantastic people in a beautiful land. Although I speak spanish.. i really stood out. but the people there all treated me wonderfully and looked upon me with bemusement because I could speak spanish.

I plan to return to Colombia soon, and when we marry, we will come very summer and live in our chalet.

American warnings used to be bad about Colombia.. if you look at the dates you will see most of them are old. From what I can tell, we have a good relationship with URIBE and Colombia and almost all new information about Colombia is positive. HAVE FUN and be polite!

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jules100 says on Mar 11, 2004, 18:45:

How are you doing? Did you go to Colobia - please let everyone know if you went and what your experiences there are.

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SiV says on Mar 12, 2004, 09:28:

Be careful It´s likely you´ll get machine-gunned just coming down off the plane, like what happens to all of us here, then probably robbed for good measure.
SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 12, 2004, 11:38:

be careful Do you get machine-gunned first and then robbed? Or vice-versa? I know the outcome is the same, but it would be good to know.
cheers,
Dd

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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SiV says on Mar 13, 2004, 10:50:

Be careful Actually I think I was first subjected to a horrible torture, then rape. Or was it the other way around? What about you? Did you make it out of the airport before some vicious Colombians perpatrated crimes against you? If so, you were lucky.
SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2004, 17:51:

be careful Actually, now that I think about it, I walked up the booth and slipped the indian a 20 dollar bill and asked to get three months since I had this really hot babe waiting for me in Cali. He said, no deal I want 100 dollars, so I said no way, and they took me in this little room where I was tortured, raped, and robbed....or was it the other way around?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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dwmte says on Apr 6, 2004, 17:34:

terrified, but...... raven and desi....i was taken by your query and some of the responses, i replied and some how, the reply ended up in a link 'is colombia safe, yes...'

in short, raven, go. see for yourself.

desi, keep up your good work/thoughts. don't defend yourself from those who don't foster/bare your ideals. your threads and emotions decline when you try to defend yourself from the herd.

good luck to both of you. i'm a moderator on cali gringo and talk about medellin specifically and colombia in general. too, the thoughts i posted which ended up under the thread...'is colombia safe...' might prove supportive to you both.

hell, for all i know, raven, you might have been and returned and desi,you might have collapsed from defending yourself against some rather rude, unnecessary and somewhat scurralous remarks.

peace to all,

dwmte

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 7, 2004, 10:28:

don't collapse easily I read your response in the other thread too, thanks for being supportive:)
I guess I have a rather warped sense of humor, because most of the posts or responses I intended being funny or ironic are not perceived that way.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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mafalda.edna says on Apr 13, 2004, 07:31:

You'll love it!!! I have only been to Buga once and let me tell you that the trip from Cali to Buga will be beautiful, bring you camera along to take tons of pictures of the beautiful scenery of what is called El Valle it is just gorgeous. Now, you said your boyfriend’s family live there so they most surely know what is going on around them, ask you boyfriend to talk with his family and get a real idea of the danger. You have to be careful in that zone but it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go.

I went to Colombia last December and my best friend came with me (this is her 3rd time) we traveled by car most of the time we were there. There where military and police in every single town we went through and at every bridge that should (for the most part) make you feel safe. We didn’t have any problems; we had the best of time. As I said this was the third time my friend was there, she even lived 6 months in Bogotá with my parents and she loves Colombia. I am sure you will fall in love with Colombia too if you are willing to kick back and enjoy it. Remember that you are going to a very poor country and expect to find MANY differences from what you are used to.

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Luzmita says on Apr 13, 2004, 09:26:

I think .... Even as a colombian , that has not been there for 5 years i can say that for one moment i also got scared, but i remembered the 20 something years i lived there and remembered my dear friend Marco Andres from Cali saying once ..." If not in Colombia Luzmita... where to be happy?".... minimum, go to buga and go withoutexpectations and u will enjoy more... there is no chance that you will note love colombia.... I'm trying to convince my husband to move to colombioa with me and leave Europe... I think I might make it.

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