Taking of Panamá

daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 09:36:

They pretty much just "took it" Like all American policy in Latin America, they either are given what they want, or they take it. The threat of nuclear attack by the Soviets stopped the US from taking Cuba, but thats about it.

The canal was needed by the US, so they were not going to let the Colombian government stop them. The US succesfully bought the rights to the Canal off the French, but the Colombian government balked at giving the Americans land rights. So, the US started a "bloodless revolution" in Panama city, and bought the land rights off the rebels for $10 million.

Here are a couple of good articles (edited my me):

from
http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/joining.html

In 1878 Ferdinand de Lesseps, the French engineer who built the Suez Canal, began to dig a canal across the Isthmus of Panama, which was then part of Colombia. Tropical disease and engineering problems halted construction on the canal, but a French business (the New Panama Canal Company) still held the rights to the project. Roosevelt agreed to pay $40 million for the rights, and he began to negotiate with Colombia for control of the land. He offered $10 million for a fifty-mile strip across the isthmus. Colombia refused.

"We were dealing with a government of irresponsible bandits," Roosevelt stormed. "I was prepared to . . . at once occupy the Isthmus anyhow, and proceed to dig the canal. But I deemed it likely that there would be a revolution in Panama soon."

Teddy was right. The chief engineer of the New Panama Canal Company organized a local revolt. Roosevelt immediately sent the battleship Nashville and a detachment of marines to Panama to support the new government. The rebels gladly accepted Roosevelt's $10 million offer, and they gave the United States complete control of a ten-mile wide canal zone.

Roosevelt ordered army engineers to start digging. Thousands of workers sweated in the malarial heat. They tore up jungles and cut down mountains. Insects thrived in muddy, stagnant pools. "Mosquitoes get so thick you get a mouthful with every breath," a worker complained. The mosquitoes also carried yellow fever, and many fell victim to the deadly disease before Dr. William Gorgas found a way to stop it.


Some Americans did not approve of Roosevelt's behavior. "There was much accusation about my having acted in an 'unconstitutional' manner," Teddy shrugged. "I took the isthmus, started the canal, and then left Congress -- not to debate the canal, but to debate me. . . . While the debate goes on, the canal does too; and they are welcome to debate me as long as they wish, provided that we can go on with the canal."

Roosevelt liked to repeat an old African saying: "Speak softly, and carry a big stick. You will go far." In Panama, Teddy proved to the world that he was willing to use his big navy as a stick to further American interests.

from
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h932.html

American interest in linking the Atlantic and Pacific oceans by means of a canal across Central America had existed for many years. With the signing of the Clayton-Bulwer Treaty, the U.S. and Britain agreed not to act unilaterally on such a project, but by the end of the century the dynamics had changed. The United States had emerged as a world power following the Spanish-American War. Experiences during the conflict had underlined the need for more rapid deployment of the fleet. More than two months were required to sail from California to New York by way of Cape Horn. Completion of a canal would reduce that voyage by 8,000 miles.

France had begun a canal project in the Panama region of Colombia during the 1880s, but progress was brought to a halt by tropical diseases, engineering problems and a dwindling treasury. The French effort, headed by Ferdinand DeLesseps—engineer for the Suez Canal—declared bankruptcy and was taken over by a group whose sole intention was to sell the defunct company’s assets to the United States. The French difficulties also served to direct attention toward an alternative location—Nicaragua. Although the northern route was longer, it offered the advantages of a more amenable climate and easier terrain than found in Panama.

Britain, diverted by a growing rivalry with Germany, had given the United States a free hand to develop the canal under the terms of the Hay-Pauncefote Treaty in 1901.

At this juncture, two interesting characters entered the picture, William Nelson Cromwell, an American lawyer and promoter, and Philippe Bunau-Varilla, the agent for the original French construction company. Cromwell made a huge contribution to the Republican Party and set about countering Congressional interest in Nicaragua. In the spring of 1902, backers of the Panama route gave each member of Congress a Nicaraguan postage stamp depicting Mount Monotombo in full eruption, casting doubt on Nicaraguan government officials who had claimed that no active volcanoes existed within the country.

Congress responded by passing the Spooner Act (June 1902), authorizing $40 million to purchase French rights to canal construction in Panama, but stipulating further that if the Colombian government failed to provide the necessary land, then the U.S. would open negotiations with Nicaragua.

The secretary of state hastily negotiated the Hay-Herrán Treaty in 1903, a proposed agreement that would have given the U.S. the necessary lease rights for canal construction in the Panama. The Colombian Senate, however, refused to ratify the treaty, causing the president to berate the Colombians for blocking a major “highway of civilization.”

Secretary of State John Hay and President Roosevelt let their wishes be known. The United States would smile favorably upon an independent Panama. Bunau-Varilla, with a large commission in the balance, stepped up his activities and orchestrated American aid with the plans of revolutionaries in Panama.

In November 1903, with U.S. warships standing by, a bloodless revolution broke out in Panama City. Firefighters and railroad workers secured government facilities while the U.S. fleet prevented Colombian soldiers from arriving. Independence was declared on November 4 and American diplomatic recognition followed two days later. Bunau-Varilla was named by the new republic to handle the negotiation of a canal treaty in Washington.

The resulting Hay-Bunau-Varilla Treaty secured American rights to construct and maintain the canal in Panama. Bunau-Varilla, now a wealthy man, returned to his native France. Roosevelt would later boast about the signal event of his presidency by proclaiming, “I took Panama.” Colombia was understandably outraged by the United States' naked manipulation and other Latin nations viewed the northern giant with mounting suspicion.

Work began on the canal in 1904. Roosevelt, eager to view his pet project, visited the construction site in 1906 and became the first president to leave the country during his term of office. Colonel George W. Goethals was the overall project supervisor, but was assisted by the amazingly successful efforts of Dr. William C. Gorgas to combat yellow fever and malaria. Despite a nevertheless heavy toll inflicted by disease and a cost of more than $360 million, the canal was completed in 1914, a testament to American single-mindedness and engineering skill.

In 1977, President Jimmy Carter signed the Panama Canal Treaty, which provided for the return of the canal to Panama in the year 2000.

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Bruce V. Shrader says on Apr 23, 2005, 10:26:

Very Interesting, Enjoyed this very much!

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Scalestick says on Apr 23, 2005, 11:26:

Good documentary The Panama Deception is an award winning documentary that deals with the real reason for the Panama fiasco of 1989 when the US were supposedly going after Noriega to get rid of the drug lord king, one their ex pals: the US did not want to return the canal to Panama, too valuable.
Go to the following sight for more and footage from this video: www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4078.htm

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Scalestick says on Apr 23, 2005, 11:29:

ps for that matter, just go into Google or another search engine and look up The Panama Deception.

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viewpoint says on Apr 23, 2005, 11:56:

Daver Good story and I enjoyed it. A few more comments to the story might be that Panama had voluntarily jointed Gran Colombia years many later after it was joined by the original four counties (Colombia, Peru, Ecuador and Venezuela) formed Gran Colombia. Years later Peru, Ecuador and Venezuela declared their independance from Gran Colombia leaving only Panama and Colombia.

Panama later attempted 2 or 3 times to declare it's indepenence from Colombia but was threatened with Colombian military retalation if attempted (Peru, Ecuador and Venezuela weren't). It wasn't until the USA and it's heavy hand backed the Panamanians final declaration of independance that it stuck. Panama was occupied at that time by a Colombian Military presence who where bought off by gold coin ($50,000 for the Colombian General and much less gold coin for every other Colombian soldier funded by the USA) many of which remained in Panama and never went back to Colombia.

That's kind of the other local Panamanian color I have heard. Somewhere in the story the islands of San Andres and Provdencia were stripped away from Nicaragua by the USA and placed into Colombia's hands again as a little pacification peace offering. You don't have to go back too far in history to see some pretty ugly things that the USA did in their early years. I hope I got this story correct or someone can straighten it out.

Many people in the USA are screaming about the Mexicans crossing the borders of Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and South Texas illegally to settle and occupy these areas. Sometimes I wonder if the same people that are making this noise in the USA realize who's land (part of Mexico) that originally was before the USA took it way from them.

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 12:53:

Panama Deception Ah!

Thanks for reminding me of this documentary. I´ve been telling my wife about it ever since I saw it in Canada. I was completely taken by the movie. I want my wife to see it, and her father too.

Does anyone know (this is a long shot) if I can get this movie in Medellin. In Spanish???

Thanks,

Dave

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 12:55:

Viewpoint "Sometimes I wonder if the same people that are making this noise in the USA realize who's land (part of Mexico) that originally was before the USA took it way from them"

I don´t think the Mexicans (or Spainards) cared when they took the land from the Natives, and the Americans don´t care that it used to be territory conquered by Spanish speaking peoples. California, New Mexico, Texas, etc... only belonged to Mexico because they forcefully took it from someone else. Americans play the same games everyone else did, they just seem to be better at it.

People have awefully short memories.

Dave

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viewpoint says on Apr 23, 2005, 13:11:

DAVE Try going down to HUECO and you will find several street vendors that sell the VCD and DVD movies on the main street in front of the street entrance to HUECO. Look for a black couple (man and woman) on the corner just west of the entrance and talk to them. They are the most honest peddlers and if they don't have the movie they will get in for you in minutes. Magically, one of them will visit an off street location of inventory and in just ten minutes you can find most anything you want. If you have any problems with their videos they will exchange item immediately no questions asked for another of any selection. My advice is to just deal with the "black couple from Choco" as they have never stiffed me once for anything. Try to just buy the DVDs if you can as the VCDs are not as good of quality.

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Lionheart says on Apr 23, 2005, 13:12:

taking land - drawing new borders The American continents aren't the only ones with borders being re-drawn in the maps. Europe has a long history of doing that over and over again. Look at Russia and the Balkan now. Germany has moved its borders in the past 200 years so often I wasn't able to keep up with them in my history and geography classes in Germany.

As far as Panama goes, I have always heard the two stories equally often, depending from which side of the border the storyteller came from. While the USA had interests in the canal, it seems to me the larger issue of being two countries or not was between Panama and Colombia before that.

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 13:20:

"Germany has moved its borders in the past 200 years so often I wasn't able to keep up with them in my history and geography classes in Germany."

At least they got rid of that ugly border that used to split it right down the middle. I think Germany will look the same for a long time to come.... or at least everyone in Europe hopes so....

Dave

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 13:23:

viewpoint Thanks for the info about the DVD vendors.

I´ll pass the info on to my wife and see if she will take me there. I think she had planned to go to the HUECO to get stuff for our apartment but was going to get her sister to go with her and not me. She is beginning to hate the Gringo specials we get offered when I´m with her. You know, the pay double deal. If only these people knew that I´m broke too!

Dave

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 23, 2005, 13:28:

Panamanian separatist movement was just a group of business people and a few politicians who sided with the US at that time. This is what I've read in history books... there was never any definite political party or strong opinion in the country about getting separated from Colombia, since it's basically the same people who inhabit both countries. Many Panaminians I met in the US claimed Colombian ancestry and I've talked about that issue many times with Panaminian people I know. What I could gather from what I read and and how they look at that passage in their history is the fact that no real Panaminian nationality existed pre US. intervention in the zone.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 14:27:

gringoinbogota No one sai gringoinbogota

No one said the canal was stolen from Colombia. They are saying that Panama was stolen from Colombia.

Carter goofed and should not have gifted the canal back. It would have saved a lot of lives if the US had no reason to invade in 1989.

Dave

PS. Besides, even if the Canal belonged to Colombia, they would only be allowed to do one thing: Let the Americans make all the decisions.

If not, the American war machine will be there in a couple weeks. The canal is too valuble to the US, and they will never ever loose a grip on it.

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daver says on Apr 23, 2005, 14:47:

The navy won´t fit? Only the aircraft carriers won´t. All the large battleships fit, and the current navy ships are much smaller than the old giants... Nuclear submarines fit. And the navy still can´t fly over land, so the canal is very important.

Half the merchant fleet sailing won´t fit? I don´t think so, but anyway. Have it your way,

Dave

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 23, 2005, 22:48:

When you say "Have it your way" are you telling him to go to Burger King, Daver, or some place else? ("Have it your way" is the slogan for Burger King's ads)

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Hunter says on Apr 24, 2005, 02:36:

The canal is being enlarged to accomodate the bigger container ships and a new canal and locks is also being dug/built at the moment.

Hunter

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daver says on Apr 25, 2005, 11:12:

When I said "have it your way", I was saying that the canal, will, of course, be closed in 10 years and the new super duper container ships and extra fat navey ships will just have to fly accross central America, the canal means nothing, and the fact the Americans will invade Panama to protect it was just something of a joke.

Who knew that a country that put a man on the moon could make a canal wider? Goosh!

Dave

PS. Cowboy. Just so you know, I worked at BK for two years when I was a teenager (no Mexicans to take these jobs in Canada) so I am somewhat an expert on the subject.

Would you like fries with that sir?

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