Surely this cannot be correct?

viajero123 says on May 28, 2008, 19:40:

Well, this issue is full of legal technicalities. But yes, the apartment can eventually revert to the tenants who have upkept the property, but I am unsure of the timescales. If they do not want to leave the apartment voluntarily, then lawyers have to get involved and a judge has to issue an order to evict them and this can take really long and be costly. The good news is that there are many lawyers doing this type of thing as it is a common problem for landlords here so lawyers have experience dealing with it.

Another thing to worry here is that the tenant actually paid the taxes and the building fees and any other charges. If not it is the responsibility of the apartment owner to pay them, including any late fees and default interest rates, as making the nephew pay seems rather difficult due to a lack of written formalities. Maybe witnesses would do it, but then it's legal technicalities again.

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Gator says on May 28, 2008, 19:53:

This is correct. One of the wife's friends in Medellin was caught in the same situation GET AN ATTORNEY Mrs. Gator said ten years is correct.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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miamimike says on May 29, 2008, 00:49:

Only in Colombia,,,Que Cosas

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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goin_south says on May 29, 2008, 00:56:

Siempre.... where ever you are at... be it Colombia, the USA, or ... Mars....

"Get it in WRITING".

IN the words of Gomezman5: 'nuff said'.

Some say: All things are better in...Medellin! ....Oscar Lopez just says it's better.....LATE!!! (WHERE EVER YOU ARE)

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lpdiver says on May 29, 2008, 04:03:

Miamimike..."Only in Colombia" check out what can happen here in the USA if you miss your taxes.

T

"cook some rice!"

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Ctg Bound says on May 29, 2008, 04:16:

miamimike,

They have similiar laws in the UK, I think its 20 years though.

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LilaM says on May 29, 2008, 07:14:

As we say here in colombia "Las Mentiras con Foto" Here it is a story about it:

My old aunt Carmen, she used to live in Barranquilla at Barrio El Prado, she had a big house just for her, so she said to a friends from a poor family "hey i´ll help you with your family, so you are going to have a safe home to live..... they lived there for 5, 10, 15, 20 years!!! so my aunt passed away, and wen my dad went to solve the stuff about the house.... that family said, hey this part of the garage is ours bc we lived here for 20 years without payment!!!!!! So at the end we had to sell the house without the garage area uh!!!!!

So be careful with that sweet help to family and friends!!!! Everything has to be written...

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

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dwmte7 says on May 29, 2008, 07:24:

much to the chagrin of many, there are laws in colombia--as elsewhere--that are just plain mindless and without rhyme or reason. get used to it.

dwmte

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dwmte7 says on May 29, 2008, 07:26:

our family takes care of our modest little house in envigado....they rented it to some woman who stopped paying rent and (??) declared squatters rights. mucha lucha and attorneys later, they finally got the gal outta the house.

dwmte

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slguy says on May 29, 2008, 07:35:

squatters' rights are pretty widespread, actually. some years back, i owned some land in costa rica. at the time, a family could have built a ramshackle house on the land, and if i didn't have them removed before a year passed, they were entitled to own the small piece of land surrounding the house. yep - one year.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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ColombianoGringo says on May 29, 2008, 08:16:

Ugh! slguy, you took the words out of my mouth. Some family members in England had a problem with a house in Oxford many years ago. They normally rented the house out to students at Oxford University, but I remember them having a problem with some people that tried to claim squatters rights. They were eventually able to get them out somehow, but I remember that it was quite a pain.

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Mononoke28 says on May 29, 2008, 08:28:

My husband's family lost their finca and lot in Boyacá when his father passed away. They rented it out to some friends for years and when he died and the family wanted to sell it, the tenants wouldn't move out and claimed it as theirs. They tried to take it to court but the law said the finca and the property was theirs to keep.

Diana

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ColombianoGringo says on May 29, 2008, 08:41:

Damn!!!! A whole finca. That really sucks. This is certainly something to be wary about.

I had thought about buying an apartment in Colombia and let some relatives live there and watch over the place. While I would obviously consult an attorney if I decide to do this, but out of curiosity, is there any form of contract that one can enter into with a tenant that can preclude them from claiming squatter rights in the future?

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Mononoke28 says on May 29, 2008, 08:42:

I think that as long as you take care of the impuesto predial, admin fees, utilities and every other thing that may come up, you're good. But definitely consult an attorney.

Diana

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ColombianoGringo says on May 29, 2008, 08:44:

I would hope that a contract would be possible. I would hate to have to pay for somebody's utilities and maintenance fees when they are already living there for free. If that were the case, I'd rather it just sit empty and just have a close and trusted family member check up on the place occasionally.

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Mononoke28 says on May 29, 2008, 08:49:

I'd choose the latter seriously. As long as the place is in a secured building in a nice part of town there shouldn't be any issues. We have a cousin living in ours and even though she's clean and all, the place did not look right to me when I got there. The floor and the corners of the walls were cracked, the kitchen counter and sinks were scratched, the walls and the doors looked old. I was so mad when I got there I kept asking if she was the only one living there, she swore up and down that she was. But come on, the place was only three years old at the time and she was there to take care of it. =\

Diana

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papiChulo says on May 29, 2008, 11:06:

Fish and family should not be in your house for more than 4 days. After 4 days throw fish out along with family.

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dwmte7 says on May 29, 2008, 12:09:

great truth there..............

dwmte

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 29, 2008, 12:14:

Its foolish in any country to let someone live in your property for free. Even if you only charge them $5 a month or something, it changes the legal nature of the relationship in your favor.

I suspect this is going to end with many tears for all involved.

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Ctg Bound says on May 29, 2008, 12:58:

Mr. Hollywood,

There is a minimum rent in many Countries, though I don't think there is a minimum figure in Colombia.

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 29, 2008, 13:13:

"minimum rent". That's an interesting kind of rent control I've never heard about before.

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Ctg Bound says on May 29, 2008, 13:40:

Mr. Hollywood,

Some Countries set a minimum to stop certain tax avoidences etc.

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Medellin Traveler says on May 29, 2008, 14:02:

Forget the laws, or lack there of, what should be done is to avoid these type of people all together.

"Huevos Rancheros en Medellin, No Quiero Taco Bell." - www.medellintraveler.com

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Ctg Bound says on May 29, 2008, 14:07:

Medellin Traveler,

A tenancy aggrement of any type, the Colombian law will then get them out of the apt quite quickly (no real differance in speed to the UK for example), if they are not paying the rent, or at the end of the tenancy period they refuse to leave.

Obviously you have other not so nice options available in Colombia or anywhere else if you feel that way inclined.

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fecherklyn says on May 29, 2008, 16:41:

Thanks to everyone that has been kind enough to reply to my initial question. It would now appear I have some disturbing news to give to my friends in Las Vegas. "Disturbing" because it is clearly in their interests to try to get their nephew occupant to sign a tenancy agreement. The already strained relations between them will now be further tested by the tacit insinuation they no longer have faith in his "word".

In fact, I did not explain in my opening post why relations were strained with the nephew. This problem only arose some months ago when my Las Vegas friends ask me to assist them in selling a finca they had constructed in the Las Ceja area. I asked Medellin's specialist realty agent for fincas what price he could sell it for. He pointed out a number of negative factors (mainly related to location, access and design and construction faults) and said it would be difficult to obtain more than 220 million pesos. I related this information back to my friends who were flabbergasted......they had only 1 year earlier finished paying for the construction of the finca at a cost of 250,000 US$ (funds transferred against calls for funds in pesos).

So, why did this cause the initial strain in relations between them and their nephew? Because he was the architect for the design of the finca, acted as their construction representative throughout and recommended the location as a safe investment. I have checked, the nephew is a licensed architect in Medellin (obviously, no names given here).

I point this out as perhaps foreign investors occasionally need to be reminded of some of the pitfalls of investing in Colombia. Having said this it must be emphasized this is a particularly bad example of where family trust has been abused and fuller knowledge of the local laws is essential. Happily, this is an exception to my experience.

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slguy says on May 29, 2008, 16:46:

jeez, what a mess!

on the other hand, if they didn't feel like hopping a plane to check on their $250,000 investment...

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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fecherklyn says on May 29, 2008, 17:12:

Slguy,

As you say..."What a mess".

But they did make some efforts to check-out their investment.

Initially, when the land was purchased and their queries about a lot on "top of a mountain" and with a slope that would defy Tour de France specialist climbers was answered by the arguementation it was in a prime location (La Ceja) but with the added value of desired seclusion (Correct, my 4x4 had the utmost difficulty on reaching the summit....I have often wondered how the cement lorries, etc. got there). Nobody in the "local" family was at this time inclined to question the architect nephew's logic.

And during a construction period visit when it was already too late to do anything but where my friends' lack of knowledge regarding local construction costs v/s property prices disallowed them from asking the required leading questions.

In short, how far can one depend upon family "values"....especially when it is offered as expert opinion?

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bufalo says on May 30, 2008, 08:27:

sounds like one of these deals where "on paper" looks good, but then reality comes into play

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Mononoke28 says on May 30, 2008, 13:56:

I wonder if they nephew gave them different numbers and kept the rest. Not saying that he did but if he was the architect of the whole thing, he should've known first hand about the cons of even building something on the lot and advise his uncle of what they needed to do.

Some paisas, I tell ya!

Diana

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