Study abroad- UN vs. Los Andes?

Lucia Rojas says on Oct 6, 2005, 06:49:

yes U N is the best university and you will get a chance to see the real colombia... but some times hteres riots and classes are missed and theres a lot of political propaganda from all sides, ( which maybe you're interested in).Getting in la Nacional is hard.. very hard....the exams are crazy and a lot don't make it.

Los Andes is private and mostly strato 4,5,6 who can afford to pay the expensive matricula. It is also lots of fun and you might meet more people who speak english... and you might not feel so much of the culture shock....which comes in useful when you are feeling homesick...

At both places you will have fun....I depends on your interests...Los andes is very ggod for political sciences and you might get the opportunity to meet very famous teachers...
no se.
dificil decision

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Sr Tertius says on Oct 6, 2005, 08:20:

I spent 7 years in UniAndes I graduated almost 10 years ago, though... at that time they started to change the progressive tuition fee to a fixed one. Before they made that change, you could see a significant portion of the under-5th stratum Colombia in there, and there was a lot of political activity. My best guess is that that's all gone.

So, I'm afraid I have to agree with Lucia: the UN is probably a better option. I don't think that the UN has been closed in years, so watch out when people tell you about riots: They usually cancel classes for just one day.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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litost says on Oct 6, 2005, 12:26:

I agree you will definitely see more of the real Colombia in the UN, and that it is more competitive and full of people from diverse backgrounds. One big downside I would note is the relatively isolated location... meanwhile, the Andes is right in the center next to the Candelaria and the mountanis, and close to many other universities. The Andes is also, obviously, aesthetically better and well cared, while the UN seems a little abandoned in many areas.

Tough choice!!!

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World Citizen says on Oct 6, 2005, 12:46:

why not both? You may try to take classess in both universities. You may register to a program in say Los Andes and take a class (not offered in Los Andes) at the U. Nacional. You may need to do some talking in both schools and see how they homologate credits & grades for you...whereas this is not a common thing it is attainable.

If you do that be aware of the distances between the two schools and your class schedule. Peak hours in Bogota can be a pain and you may spend too long from one campus to the other.

I graduated from La Javeriana many years ago but took a couple of classes at La Nacional. Great experience!

Cheers!



Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

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patu says on Oct 6, 2005, 14:01:

Yes UN My cousin is going to UN currently and he too is studying political science. I think as far as a better experience... will be equal at both. But you may find more people who speak english at Los Andes.

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Cerealkiller says on Oct 6, 2005, 17:36:

Hmmm As much as I dislike los andes, i have to admit their academic programs are actually quite competitive. Yes, its true people get in according to how much the can afford to pay, but then again staying there and keeping a high gpa is a completely different story. I don't know UN, I dont even know where it is, so i really am quite clueless. I take economics and political science as well, so any additional info just send me a pm.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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rointy says on Oct 6, 2005, 22:17:

NO UN Hello.
As a good colombian fellow I have to advise you NOT TO GO to the UN (Universidad Nacional). According to students, friends of mine from that university, the campus of UN is the biggest center of distribution of ilegal drugs in Bogota. If you want to see people smoking marihuana, selling any kind of drugs, running riots, burning cars and blocking the traffic causing tremendous trafics jams that affect many workers and honest people, go to that university. It is also well known that most of the people form the UN have a ultra "left wing perspective of the world", and I can assure you, that comming from the US, you will find many problems, due to that "left wing people" blame the US for every single problem in Colombia. You will find walls painted with agressive and violent messages against US and the people from the US.
Andes university instead, is an open minded community, where integration and acceptance is the common denominator. Of course Andes university is the perfect icon of the colombia elite. You can have contact with the real poor colombian people interacting in many places suchs as public libraries, public parks, walking by the street, in the public trasportation system. There you can have a real view of the problems of Colombia. I hope this advice helps you to make an accurate decision.
Edwar Delgado

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PGScooter says on Oct 6, 2005, 23:22:

Thank you so much everyone for the replies. I really appreciate the suggestions.
Lucia Rojas- luckily for me, I will be considered an international student, so I will not have to take any entrance exams (except maybe spanish).
Sr Tertius-Even if there are several days cancelled cause of riots I don't think that would bother me.
litost- I had not thought about location, thanks for bringing up that point.
World Citizen-I will definitely look into that. I had not thought about it. I will probably end up just going to one (cause of money and distance), but thanks for the idea.

rointy-thank you very much for your advice. I appreciate your comments. I have thought about this many times before.. how will I be accepted as an American? Will people hate me for the wrong reasons (for what my government does)? Or will people LIKE me for the wrong reasons? I am a very unconfrontational kind of guy. I have never been in a fight; not because I back down, but because I believe myself to be a people person and am able to communicate sincere thoughts. I am hoping that for the most part, people will be intelligent enough (especially if they get into UN) to realize that what a government does may not be exactly what the people want. I mean look at Colombia!! Does every Colombian agree with Plan Colombia?? From what I have heard, I doubt it. So why would they blame me for what America does. Do Colombians know that California is a very left-state? That a significant percentage of Americans were against the war in Iraq? That Bush barely was elected and barely was reelected?

As far as seeing walls painted with anti-US propaganda, that will not bother me. I, personally, believe that America IS playing a very significant part in Colombia's problems.

My way of seeing this is as so: I will be taking a higher risk by going to UN, but I believe it is worth it. If I can learn from these radical left-wingers as you portray them, and understand their point of view to the fullest extent possible, one of my objectives to going to Colombia will be met. Likewise, perhaps by meeting an American who is not there for any other reason than to understand and sympathize with their problems, maybe they will learn something from that experience too?

So far my list of advantages of UN is as follows:
1. I will be able to (and perhaps even forced to) use my Spanish more. Although some people mentioned the fact that more people will speak English in Los Andes, I see this as a negative factor. As I said, I want to understand Colombia. I would like to do so in her native language.
2. It is cheaper (yes, I am American, but no, I'm not rich, I'm actually already in debt).
3. more representative of Colombia (even if this includes dealing with the riots and occasional confrontational Colombian).

Disadvantages:
1. More bureaucracy to deal with? UN won't pay me as much attention as Los Andes I'm assuming.
2. Location seems to be something to consider.
3. For political science, it sounds like it is more prestigious? what about economics?

I am trying to think of more questions to ask you very helpful people, but am coming up blank. Why is it that more people speak English in Los Andes? Because they are wealthier, they were able to hire private English tutors??
How much should I consider location when thinking about which university? Is the bus system effective in Bogota?

Any other suggestions you may have, please don't hesitate! Thanks again to EVERYONE for their suggestions.

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Lucia Rojas says on Oct 7, 2005, 06:57:

Transmilenio You don't have to worry about distance too much because the U N has a transmilenio station that gets to it. transmilenio is one of the bus systems in Bogota. The only one that is civilized, with drivers who are not allowed to drive like maniacs the way the other do. Its also very fast... faster than a car... so just make sure you live close (walking distance)to any transmilenio station and you will be fine for transportation.

Academically both universities are great. so the decision is hard that way.

Yes they sell drugs at The Nacional, but they also sell drugs around los Andes. LA nacional is huge!!! so you don't have to hang out at the areas you don't like. I think if you know about things like plan colombia and you don't particulary agree with them... you will probably have a blast at Nacional and a lot of political disscussions. You will maybe get some shit for being gringo, but it happens to all of you who travel. I don't think it will be agressive or anything. Just "discussional" jejejje. The grafittis I love, but I say it form the point of view of an artist. You will also find a huge mural of el Che. jejeje. They tried to cover it up and the students complained, so I think it's still there. they are all very surreal and funny.

At los Andes you will find a lot more US sympathizers... and yes alot of people who speak english and have been to the States. As I said that could be useful if you get homesick. The neighborhood is certainly cooler. Right in the center of Bogota, the colonial neighborhood, little bars, tienditas, museums, theatres, churches, salseaderos... narrow streets, everything is close by.

La nacional also has tienditas and bars and little rumba places. Some of them are actually pretty cool. Most of them are on 45 st. But the area is wider... bigger...
distances are a bit longer than in Candelaria (downtown) but they are still walkable.

suerte

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World Citizen says on Oct 7, 2005, 12:07:

I didn't know about the transmilenio station close to La Nacional, that helps for sure!

PGScooter, taking a class in one university while being registered to a program in the other should not be expensive at all. Some of the professors teach in both schools... at least it was like that for my program. Or one school may offer classes or electives that the other one does not.

The reason why I'm suggesting you try both schools is because you can take advantage of two completely different experiences. Los Andes is a private school where many Economics and Pol Sc. profs are active players of the national economy and political life. Many of them have grad degrees from U.S nniversities and therefore may be more influenced by the neoliberal trend etc. However, that doesn't mean that if you take classes there you have to agree with those theories and/or be right wing. It is in my opinion just the (more realistic) way to see where Colombia is going to... for good or bad. Many students are bilingual because they belong to the wealthier classes that can afford bilingual schools. That doesn't mean all of them are shallow brats (there are exceptions of course)... MANY are liberal, well educated, smart people.

I love La Nacional. Plenty of culture and diversity as well... and wonderful profs. Very critical students due to the assorted backgrounds. You will find many very bright kids with enormous talent. Huge campus; tons of stuff always going on. However, the only thing that bothers me about the national Univ. is that some students AND profs are extremely bias. For SOME of them, if you study in a private university or school it is implicit that you are rich, stupid, right wing and part of the poverty problem in Colombia. Of course that has some true... but that's not very objective. I believe schooling is more than getting a degree... in a country like Colombia, education should be synonym of tolerance.

But any way... what I'm saying is take advantage of the two worlds, none is better than the other; they just see Colombia through a different lense.

Cheers and Good Luck!

Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

Life is not what one lived, but rather what one remembers, and how it is remembered to tell the tale. (Gabriel Garcia Marquez)

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kernow62 says on Oct 7, 2005, 16:39:

Didn't Fidel Castro stir up a bit of trouble at La Nacional once upon a time?

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PGScooter says on Oct 8, 2005, 09:27:

World Citizen- thanks a lot for your comments. I am thinking more and more of attempting to attend both. Perhaps I could do that at least for the first semester that I'll be there and then decide which one fits me best afterwards. I'm still a little confused as to which university might be considered better for having on my cv when I apply to graduate school... it seems that Los Andes is more prestigious, but La Nacional is better quality? is that kind of it?

Lucia Rojas- interesting to know about the transmilenio, that should help. I think that UN is definitely more what I'm looking for. That is funny about the Che mural. My university has a cafe called the "Che" which is a gathering point for many interesting, intelligent, and lively people. There's often lots o f very cool performances (music, theater) going on there too. I wonder what would happen if the University tried to shut it down; would it be the same? interesting.. again for the English, I do not think that would help with the homesickness. I've already been abroad once to France for a year and wasn't homesick. Yes, Colombia will be a more radical difference, but I know that I will be ok. And if I went to Colombia and not one person spoke English to me, even if I had to struggle like crazy, I think that I would thouroughly enjoy the challenge and the experience, not to mention the help to my Spanish.

Thanks!

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absolut says on Oct 13, 2005, 17:34:

better the nacho the students of the UN call IT "LA NACHO" . From my point of view it´s The University, the real one. The Andes it´s the crystal tower of the colombian elite. Their students doesnt know the real Colombia, and the irony is that they will run the country. The old joke about the Andes says "De frente a Monserrate de espaldas al país"
Un saludo
alejandro

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PGScooter says on Oct 15, 2005, 15:36:

alejandro, why do they call the UN "La Nacho"? Thanks for the advice, I'm focusing more and more on UN.

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juancegomez says on Oct 15, 2005, 20:10:

While I'm personally not studying at either (though I've been to both under different circumstances, but ended up going elsewhere)...I'll give my 2 cents, even if it's mostly going over the usual stuff.

Yes, the UN is probably better from an academic and diversity standpoint, but not always too good from a disciplinary one (part of the reason why I didn't end up studying there, contrary to my elders' wishes). Unfortunately it's true that in the UN you will find some people that think that only UN graduates are smart and hardworking, while almost everybody from a private university is a a lazy Uribe voter under the total control of the U.S. Which definitely isn't always the case.

On the other hand, Los Andes isn't that bad academically, even if it's definitely a bit inferior regarding diversity and there's a certain class status irrevocably associated to it (part of the reason why I declined studying there in the end). Unfortunately, in Los Andes you'll find some people that think that public U. graduates are all starving communist radicals that automatically sympathize with the FARC and help it, and thus deserve to be treated as such. Which definitely isn't always the case either.

There's a sort of billateral intellectual and social discrimination going on in both places, though happily there are plenty of exceptions to those general rules (even if it may be hard to identify those exceptions at first sight).

It wouldn't be too bad to try checking out other universities, both public and private, or even just mix 'em up, as has been suggested. Wish you luck.

AFAIK, "Nacho" is slang for "Nacional", basically.

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PGScooter says on Oct 17, 2005, 16:23:

juancegomez,
thanks for the replies.. I'm leaning more and more towards the UN, simply because I think it could teach me a lot about Colombia and how many Colombians think (even if this thinking is biased as a few have hinted at).

I do not think i have any time left to check out other universities, I think all the dates to apply have passed. Besides, I think that I will have a great experience no matter which university I go to, and I can always change at the semester, so we'll see. I'll post a review after I've made my own judgments.
thanks for all of the info! Looks like I still got some thinking and contemplating to do!

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C0SMARIUM says on Nov 6, 2005, 13:29:

NACHO VS. ANDES WELL, I AM NEW HERE SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOU GET THE MESSAGE...

HI, I STUDIED IN LA NACIONAL, I LIVED IN BOGOTA, 8 YEARS. I KNOW LOS ANDES TOO. I LIVE NOW IN PORTLAND OREGON. I HOPE IS NOT TOO LATE FOR GIVING YOU AND ADVICE. I DONT THINK YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID THAT THE STUDENT'S IN LA NACHO (NACIO. APROX. NACHO) ARE GOING TO REJECT YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR ORIGIN. IT'S IS TRUE THAT THERE ARE SOME LEFT WINGED PEOPLE BUT THAT IS A MINORITY AND IN THAT SENSE LA NACHO IS A GOOD, VERY GOOD REPRESENTATION OF COLOMBIAN SITUATION, WERE SO FEW PEOPLE DO FU.. THINGS AND EVERYBODY PAYS FOR THE BAD IMAGE. I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD CONSIDER STUDING IN LA NACHO AND PERHAPS TAKING SOME CLASSES IN LOS ANDES, WITH THAT YOU WILL SEE HOW BLINDED SOME PEOPLE CAN BE (GOOD!!! THAT NOT ALL BECAUSE LOS ANDES IS IN MY OPINION A GOOD!!! UNIVERSITY) THAT LIVE IN OTHER COLOMBIA (???) AND HAS A BIASED OPINION OF COLOMBIAN SITUATION, WHICH IS A LOT MORE COMPLEX THAT HAVING SOME STUDENT THROWING HOME BOMBS SELDOM IN LA NACHO...
WELL, LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED SOMETHING ELSE. AND BY THE WAY, I HAVE HAD FACED PEOPLE ASKING ME HERE ABOUT A SAMPLE OF COCAINE, I HAVE NEVER TASTE THAT $#$% THING. SO THE PROBLEM OF STEREOTYPES IS IN BOTH DIRECTIONS... EVEN MORE IS GLOBAL, PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT RECEIVES BY THE BIASED NEWS...
VERY GOOD LUCK AND KEEP IN TOUCH...
COSMARIUM

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