Stratas??? Can someone please explain...

Lisa says on Aug 31, 2005, 16:03:

Estrata 4, 5 and 6 I currently live in Bogota and am residing in an estrata 4, which I would consider very middle class for the United States. It is not overly fancy in my building, but my apartment is a decent size, and the building is very clean and well-maintained. The porteros are the best ever.
Basically 4 is pretty decent and 5 and 6 obviously get a lot nicer. I have fellow teacher friends that live in both and they can be QUITE nice. Of course, every time your estrata rises, so do your utilities.
That is about all I know at this point!

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Gator says on Aug 31, 2005, 16:12:

It Is Estrato... government (local) designations for tax, utility and other services. Not only deals with residential areas but commercial and industrial as well-distantly like U S zoning. Very loosely applied the higher the estrato the "better" the neighborhood. Goes from estrato 0ne to estrato six. Here is a link that has the estratos in Bogotá-takes a longggggggggggg time to load. My area is an estrato 6, Los Rosalas off of Carrera 7a

http://www.dapd.gov.co/www/resources/dec200-04.jpg

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 31, 2005, 17:45:

Because the higher the strata the higher the rate for utilities and taxes, people do not always want to be in the highest strata that they can. My wife's barrio in Medellin was going to be reclassified from Strata 4 to Strata 5 and they fought it so hard that the city council rescinded the change. So you can have a very nice Strata 4 area that is as nice as some Strata 5 barrios. Hers certainly is.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lucia Rojas says on Aug 31, 2005, 21:27:

strata 1 Buildings that have been declared national monuments: Like the torres del Parque above the Plaza de Toros or La calle del sol in Candelaria (one of the most beautiful places to live in because of the architecture) are starta one. So utilities are cheaaaap.

Obvoisly there are other areas that are strata 1, which are in terrible conditions, but that is another story....

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Rubiazo says on Sep 1, 2005, 16:27:

caution re: estrato 1 if an area has good electricity good water and nice houses and is reasonably well maintained and is still in estrato 1 or 2 in Bogota it is because the crime rate in that neighborhood is off the chain. A lot of Teusaquillo is like that. Actually very pretty neighborhoods but lots of crazies living there. My friend lives in a beautiful big house in Estrato 2 in the 20s but she is right around the corner from a huge halfway house.

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Sylvie says on Sep 1, 2005, 22:44:

All the Colombians I know live in strata 6 and they're pretty well off. I think six, and five are pretty much like north american upper middle to upper class with 6 being highest class. 4 and 3 are like the North American middle class while 1 and 2 are lower class and below poverty line.

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caslug says on Sep 1, 2005, 23:19:

Slyvie..guess we know what type of COL you hang w/ LOL! estrata 6 is like beverly hills or park avenue, it's a very nice area. I remember walking in North of zona rosa i the area of estata 6, it buildings and neighborhood reminds me of those areas. I would say 4/5 would be equilvent to upperclass in the US and 3 middle class. But what struck me was the lack of street lights in some 3 or below. During the day, it's not bad but a night we no lights, those 3 or below looks scary.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 2, 2005, 11:41:

Wow, I don't know any Colombians who live in Strata 6. We must not be running with the "right" people, Caslug!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 11:55:

I doubt that Cali even has any strata 6 houses. Maybe just a handful in Pance or Ciudad Jardín.

I'm not all that familiar with the upper class gringo living standards, but I doubt that Colombia's strata 5 or 6 could be compared with the "filthy rich" in the States. Strata 4 to 6 would be gringo middle class, anything under that would probably have the same type of living standards as the poorer people in the States.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Rubiazo says on Sep 2, 2005, 12:31:

estrato 6 here is as nice as anything I have ever seen in the US. And I frequently play private parties in super-rich towns in the suburbs of NY.
As a matter of fact, I´d say that rich areas in Latin America in general are nicer in many ways than rich areas in the US. Often even a $10 million home in Conneticut or Upper Westchester still has sheet rock throughout. Here from Estrato 4 up, buildings have REAL inner walls, not just some piece of cardboard.
Many people I know who live in Carnegie Hill on the Upper East Side, the WORLD's most expensive residential district, are living in basically the same conditions one would live in anywhere else in NYC. They just pay for the location. The walls are paper thin, the bathrooms are the same American Standard plumbing, they use the same shitty tile you´d see in the Bronx or Brooklyn.
The only difference would be the doorman. BUT here in Bogota, if you live in a conjunto estrato 4 or higher, a doorman is de rigeur. NYC actually USED to be that way decades ago. The majority of the buildings along the Grand Concourse in the Bronx had doormen, for example.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 12:44:

I'm not talking just about the construction of the homes or what kind of walls or floors they have but rather of the liquid assets of the families living inthose homes. Ok, I'm not going to compare the strata 5 Cali with anything in the States, but I know that a great many of Swedish families, for example, of the middle and lower middle still have at least two homes and travel extensively at least twice a year. Many strata 5 families may have a finca, but they certainly can't afford to travel abroad as much as the Swedes do.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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caslug says on Sep 2, 2005, 13:19:

Strata 6 people are a whole differnet animal.. because they DO HAVE MONEY AND CAN TRAVEL OUTSIDE COL. Granted it doesnt take AS MUCH money to be strata 6 in COL versus in US. So expat have an easier time to BUYIN a strata 6 area. Doesn't Mr. H live in the same building as the avianca president? Another poster in Medellin(who lives in strata 6(poblado)) told me his neighbor is the president of EXITO supermarket.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 13:35:

there's a big difference between strata 5 and 6. I'm not arguing that point; I know there are some people in Colombia with lots of money but the percentage is really very small. Colombia does not have a sizable upper middle class like the States or the majority of European countries or even Japan. Lots and lots of strata 5 and 4 families are really struggling with everyday expenses of basic living, educating the kids, maintaining the house and the car in good repair and for many of them a trip to DisneyWorld is a major expense. They may have a live-in maid and a doorman, maybe even a gardener and a chauffeur (labor is cheap) but it's a different lifestyle and they may be putting in a lot more working hours to obtain the same basic living standards as we do in Europe.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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caslug says on Sep 2, 2005, 14:05:

Desi..no one is arguing that strata 5 is.. the EQUAL to US/EUROPE buying power of a UPPER MIDDLE CLASS, only that it's the COL equalivant of upper middle/upper class, and estrata 6 is filthy rich!

I've NOT met(as UC also implies) ANY COL living in strata 6, because normal tourist just dont run into those types of people. So UC and I were only commenting to Slyvie that she must run with a uppercrust of COL society. The VAST majority of COL people i've met in my travel are living in strata 3 or 4 with a few 2. Probably because those make up the overwhelming majority of COL. Now i've met americans who living in strata 6, but it's easier for foreigners to come in and live in strata 5 o 6.

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Rubiazo says on Sep 2, 2005, 14:10:

I like 3 and 4 just fine. 3 for me is the cutoff point for where I´d want to live. Below that you are running more of a security risk, and/or could have problems with electricity, water, poor transport etc.
I really don´t know too many people in estrato 6 here, as a matter of fact I´ve only been above Unilago twice, and once was just passing through on the way to Zipaquirá.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 14:18:

ok, caslug now, I do know some wealthy people in Cali (probably not as wealthy as the strata 6 people in B/tá) and yet they do not enjoy the economical security and freedom that most middle-class Europeans do. I was mostly responding to rubiazo's post about the standard of living of the rich people in Colombia.

As a tourist, you don't get into the most exclusive circles of the society. Some people working for multinationals do and some private clubs do open their gates even for foreigners with enough money. I'm entirely happy with my middle-class people in Colombia; it's something I can relate to and I sometimes feel that their life is a struggle compared with my limited enough existence here in Sweden.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Sylvie says on Sep 2, 2005, 15:47:

all the people I know in the strata 6 are in the shipping industry like my dad. that is how I know them.

Most of them have other houses in Barbados, Miami, New York, Montreal, UK, Spain and France.

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Andy-NY says on Sep 2, 2005, 16:13:

Wealth is all relative. The top 1% of earners in Colombia would be considered rich there. Those same people might be middle class in Europe or U.S.

The top 1% in any country is considered truely wealthy in that country. The top 1% of USA has a annual income of $300,000 and a net worth of $3.75 million. I guess we can use these numbers as a barometer in the U.S, but I'm not sure about Colombian statistics.

Andrew-NY

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Andy-NY says on Sep 2, 2005, 16:13:

A

Andrew-NY

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Crazy Eagle says on Sep 2, 2005, 16:17:

Sylvie, why don't you get to know some people in some other stratas and maybe try to improve their lives in some way? Not everyone was smart enough to choose a father that owns a shipping business. There are plenty of poor families in Colombia that cannot afford university for their sons & daughters. So, if you are sitting on this vast wealth, why not found a scholarship or two? In between the dinner parties and polo matches?

I have dined with English aristocrats and have drank with Native Americans, no kidding, I've really been around. But I am sickened by the misery that I see everywhere I go, and try to help out whenever I can. When I am in Colombia I expect to meet people from ALL the stratas, and help if I can.

"The natural rythmm of life is routine punctuated by orgy." Aldous Huxley

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 2, 2005, 16:50:

the beauty of it is that you can be a cleaning lady here in Sweden and still be able to have a summer cottage up in the mountains or an apartment on the beach in Malaga. You don't have to have a daddy who owns a shipping business. The schoolteachers have a vacation inthe outback of Australia and the shop clerks can vacation in Thailand or in the Caribbean.

That's the middle class, even the lower middle. This is what I'd wish for the Colombian middle class (strata 3-5) to be able to have. It's only the very richest in Colombia who can actually afford to have the lifestyle of the Swedish middle class.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Sylvie says on Sep 2, 2005, 16:57:

Crazy Eagle, I;ve done my fair share of volunteer work around the world not just in South America. My family gives away 4 university scholorships every year to business students who come to Canada from a developing country. Full scholarships.

Dont tell me to do what I've already done. Thanks.


The reason I dont know anyone in COlombia that lives outside strata 6 is because when I visit my friends and family will not let me go to those places. My friends and I have to walk around with security. THey dont let us go to the very poor areas for fear that something may happen to us.

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tomtom33 says on Sep 2, 2005, 17:34:

Sylvie You have to love people who don't even know you shoulding all over you.

That's why I like being retired. I have already done my share. Now it's my time for me.

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BxUnika says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:07:

Cali "I doubt that Cali even has any strata 6 houses. Maybe just a handful in Pance or Ciudad Jardín."

I have never been to Cali, but I am interested in urban planning and I have seen on a website that most of northern/northwestern Cali is of the level 5 strata (i.e., Normandia, Centenario, etc.). Unfortunetely, the website breaks the areas up into districts so that one could not just isolate the statistics for, say, La Flora, by itself. I'm wondering how you'd rate the following neighborhoods in Cali:

La Flora
Los Alamos
Santa Monica (what is the difference between this and Northern Sta Monica??)
Centenario
Normandia
El Penon

Also, anyone familiar with La Floresta in Bogota?

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:16:

Well Desi, even if you're not a tourist, you don't get into the most exclusive circles of society. I'm certainly not a tourist but I'm limited to my wife's circle of family, friends and former coworkers. I don't have any desire to hobnob with the wealthy oligarchy that controls Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gator says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:37:

La Floresta in Bogota? kinda on the north side in the area of the Escuela Militar

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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BxUnika says on Sep 2, 2005, 21:40:

Yeah, that Floresta How is it? My boyfriend is from there and his oher still lives there. I may go in Dec/Jan after X-mas.

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litost says on Sep 2, 2005, 22:08:

As always you should be careful with these types of generalizations. I know several people from my university who, for some reason or another, happen to live in a estrato 6 appartment but are by NO means filthy rich... in fact many live very middle middle class lives. They do nothing but complain about having to pay such high utilities and talk about moving down a couple of estratos to Chapinero or La Candelaria. Though areas such as Rosales or Chico are very expensive compared to other neigborhoods, it actually only takes a decent paying job (a single person earning over 2 million approx) and cutting back on other luxuries (travel, expensive clothes, fancy restaurants) to be able to pay a rent there.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 3, 2005, 03:59:

and then again, it's a question of priorities. being a student you often have to make these kinds of choices. Most students that I've known prefer to pay a lower rent and have more money for leisure and travel. Maybe Colombian students (some) have other priorities, such as safety, appearances etc.

We're actually talking about two separate things here: 1) the stratified housing and the living expenses in such a neighborhood/house, such as rent, utilities. 2) Lifestyles and buying power of people who usually live in the highest strata neighborhoods.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 3, 2005, 04:11:

BxUnika, "La Flora
Los Alamos
Santa Monica (what is the difference between this and Northern Sta Monica??)
Centenario
Normandia
El Penon"

These are all, as you said, Northern or Northwestern neighborhoods. All of them probably strata 5. Normandía and La Flora are mostly residential, Santa Monica being around Avenida Sexta has declined, Santa Monica Norte is a bit quieter however the Chipi Chape Mall in the north end of Cali has altered the neighborhood and made it more commercial and more trafficked. Los Alamos is probably only strata 4.
El Peñon and Centenario is inthe very heart of the city, the old, traditional residential neighborhoods with huge houses and some interesting architecture. Most of the old families have moved away from El Peñon and Centenario and the old mansions have become office buildings, hotels and restaurants.

Another strata 5 neighborhood in the near north is Juanambú, where I lived at the time I got married. Some nice hillside houses and the fragrance of camias saturate the night air.

San Vicente between Santa Monica and Avenida de las Americas is another strata 5 neighborhood in the near north.

What web page were you referring to? Didn't it show all the neighborhoods (there's plenty strata 5 in the south too)?

La Flora and Normandía would be my choices for the best residential neighborhood in the north/northwest of Cali.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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BxUnika says on Sep 4, 2005, 01:06:

Santa Monica Ok,this is really mainly why I'm asking about theses areas. I have been told that Santa Monica, for example, is a great neighborhood but from the pictures I have seen, it looks downright seedy- and I am not some gomelita from the Upper Eastside of Manhattan, rather a working-class person.

Take a look at this from 2002/2003:

http://www.sjbearden.com/S_M_2002.htm
http://www.sjbearden.com/santa%20monica.htm
http://www.sjbearden.com/MORESANTAMONICA-COLOMBIA.htm

Could it be this is a different area? What part is this in? I don't think I'd feel safe walking around there at night.

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BxUnika says on Sep 4, 2005, 01:06:

Santa Monica Ok,this is really mainly why I'm asking about theses areas. I have been told that Santa Monica, for example, is a great neighborhood but from the pictures I have seen, it looks downright seedy- and I am not some gomelita from the Upper Eastside of Manhattan, rather a working-class person.

Take a look at this from 2002/2003:

http://www.sjbearden.com/S_M_2002.htm
http://www.sjbearden.com/santa%20monica.htm
http://www.sjbearden.com/MORESANTAMONICA-COLOMBIA.htm

Could it be this is a different area? What part is this in? I don't think I'd feel safe walking around there at night.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 4, 2005, 01:49:

that's not Santa Monica I know the Avenida Sexta vicinity fairly well, used to work in the area. Santa Monica, Versalles, La Flora are all fairly well-maintained. I didn't recognize the barrio from the pics. Looks like strata 3 tops. I wouldn't go out there after nightfall either, not alone and maybe not even with only one other person (male, preferably).
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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quindioman says on Sep 4, 2005, 05:15:

whoa!! those photos made my day...I would echo Desi's comment about the barrio being no higher than a 3..I would agree, but damn...I wouldn't choose something entirely different from those photos I saw....man i closed my eyes for a minute and I could smell the coffee in the air...those photos of Cali were very very Colombian.
Conversely I find there to be more "life" in the lower estrato barrios "populares"...those posh barrios are too sterile.
Regarding the houses in Ciudad Jardin. We were passing by in a taxi on our way to Pance river when I couldn't help but notice the opulent and very aesthetic looking houses. I had been told that Ciudad Jardin was probably the most exclusive area in Cali...I asked the taxi driver what this area was called, when he told me it was Ciudad Jardin I had to raise a smile

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quindioman says on Sep 4, 2005, 05:18:

bxunika if you thought those places look seedy then you going to find a lot of"seedy" places in Colombia....I'm with Elmo when he says he enjoys himself in the estrato 1 barrios of Barranquilla....I can completely empathise with him

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BlondeJamesBond says on Sep 4, 2005, 06:52:

Seedy and Dangerous? Interesting.

The place in those photos looks like an area at least 10 x better than the area of London I live in right now.

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quindioman says on Sep 4, 2005, 06:59:

blondejbond where in London do you live, out of curiosity?

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BlondeJamesBond says on Sep 4, 2005, 07:07:

quindioman

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BlondeJamesBond says on Sep 4, 2005, 07:18:

PM'd you mate.

I'm sure you'll agree, if you've been there, it's looks and almost certainly is in general, worse than the place in those photos.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 4, 2005, 10:07:

Yes, the photos do look like a Strata 3 neighborhood but very typical of much of what Colombian city neighborhoods look like. Who is Myriam? And Scott? I enjoyed looking at the photos.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Sep 4, 2005, 10:15:

I was trying to figure out what barrio that was judging by the rooftop takes towards northwest that show the hill of the three crosses. It's got to be one of the northeastern barrios like La Base or maybe Salomia. There's a considerable distance from the rooftop to the hills. It's not the Santa Monica I know anyway.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Rubiazo says on Sep 4, 2005, 10:23:

I echo quindio and elmo I have no problem partying in Estrato 1 or 2 here. Crowds of people, nobody is a stranger, meat grilling every 5 steps, LOUD music everywhere, everybody having a good time. And you can spend 30k for the whole night and go nuts!

That barrio in Cali looks just fine to me. The houses are obviously well used but the streets are fairly straight and clean. The Bronx is a hell of a lot dirtier than that, unless you live in Riverdale, Country Club, Throggs Neck etc.

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Hunter says on Sep 4, 2005, 12:33:

BlondeJamesBond Just out of curiosity can you PM me your neighbourhood in London as well.

Thanks

Hunter

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BAQ says on Sep 4, 2005, 14:36:

Strata 4 & 5 Well, in barranquilla, I live in Strata 5, my wife's family lives in Strata 4 and I have noticed a BIG difference in the neighborhoods. My wife's family's neighborhood has lots of problems with water drainage, crime rate is much higher, streets are not as well maintained, water & electric service is not as reliable (out more), houses are less than 1/2 the value of ours, people "Look" poorer (clothing, cars, furniture ect).

I can;t speak for Bogota or the other cities, but that is what I see here in Barranquilla.

Semper Fidelis !

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cam0940 says on Sep 4, 2005, 15:10:

Those pictures look like Watts, CA.

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BxUnika says on Sep 4, 2005, 15:57:

BINGO! Cam , that's just what I was going to say. It could be out of a Snoop Doggy-Dogg video from the early 1990s, no? The houses are kind of similar to those concrete, low-rise "housing projects" and bungalow-style houses you find in the poorer sections of Tampa like close to Ybor City, for example. The place doesn't look scary or hellish, but the place doesn't look so taken care of and some of the people in the background look pretty transient. It reminds me of places like Corona, Queens and other neighborhoods in and around NYC that are filled mostly with illegal immigrants. Even in the Bronx we had wider streets and you didn't get that narrow, trapped in type of vibe that you get from the desolate streets where the houses are so close together in those pictures.

But then again, if that's only a strata 2 or so barrio in Cali, then a lot of people who talk about stratas in Colombia have exaggerated, because there are places in NYC and Philadelphia that look much, much worse than what's in this picture.

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BAQ says on Sep 4, 2005, 16:13:

I might add that the "Average" price of a home in MY barrio (Estrada 5) is 140 million pesos and in the estrada 4 I am refering to the average cost is about 60 million.

That being said, there is also a BIG DIFFERENCE here between estrada 5 & 6. My home at 150 million and in Estrada 6 DOUBLE that for a home of equal size.

So the way I see it, there is a huge difference between estrada numbers, it's not some "Minimal" thing between these numbers, as some people who post seem to feel. It makes one hell of a lot of difference, and I am not refering to "Social" status", I am refering to what I described in my other post.

Just my opinon. DISCLAIMER: This post is not intended to insult anyone living in an Estrada 1,2,3, or 4. :-)

Semper Fidelis !

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caslug says on Sep 4, 2005, 16:58:

BXunika..you know those.. areas right across the river from Manhanttan on the NJ side, i think by the two bridge into NJ. YOu know those decrepit areas where the it looks like ghetto(not as bad as some areas of NEWARK). Well we consider those buildings/homes/apartment lower middle class, right? Well strata 3 and SOME 4 lookslike that. The lower strata you go, the more you see the sidewalks have holes, uneven, less street lights, etc., But on the other end of the spectrum(strata 6), it looks freaking like park avenue!

Last year I stayed in La Flora(strata 5), across the street from Exito supermarket. Well they the house and apartments in that area reminds me of parts of comptons and lower middle class areas in the US, ALL the houses have bars and walls around apartments had BARBED WIRE on them. You dont see barbed wire around a middle class neighborhood in US. So you cant use your US centric view when comparing the "look" of US and COL neighborhood, especially lower to upper middle class neighborhoods.

Rule of thumb for me is look at the street lights and sidewalk, the more street lights and nicer sidewalk(less holes in sidewalk), the nicer the area.

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tomtom33 says on Sep 4, 2005, 16:59:

My curiosity is piqued. When I get back home next month, I'll look at my electric bill. I assume that it will tell me what estrada I live in. I'm guessing that Laguito(CTG) is 5 and Castillo Grande is 6. I did know that I was paying for Tierra Bomba's electricity.

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BxUnika says on Sep 4, 2005, 17:19:

Re: Caslug "Last year I stayed in La Flora(strata 5), across the street from Exito supermarket. Well they the house and apartments in that area reminds me of parts of comptons and lower middle class areas in the US, ALL the houses have bars and walls around apartments had BARBED WIRE on them. You dont see barbed wire around a middle class neighborhood in US. So you cant use your US centric view when comparing the "look" of US and COL neighborhood, especially lower to upper middle class neighborhoods."

I know all the houses have bars on the windows; that doesn't bother me. What I'm talking about more is, are these areas actually safe? I mean, could a women walk at night to a store at 10 PM in La Flora or Normandia or Los Alamos? How often do people get mugged, robbed, raped, murdered, ec. in those middle to upper class areas? I'm not as concerned with what the area "looks" like as I am with how safe it is. There are some very pretty blocks in the Bronx and Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn. Are they safe? Some are. There are some very ugly places like Corona, parts of the Bronx, and upper Manhattan that I wouldn't really fear getting attacked in while there are "prettier" areas in NYC where I would.

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BxUnika says on Sep 4, 2005, 17:27:

Comparison Ok, sometimes I hear my Colombian friends (we live in NYC) saying, "Oh, this neighborhood is just like ______ in Bogota or _____ in Cali". Obviously the US and Colombia are two different things and because of the situation you can't really replicate the barrios in a place like NYC or Boston, but I was wonder what some more well-known Colombian neighborhoods in Cali or Bogota would be equated to in terms of the look and actual feel (safety, crime rate, atmosphere, etc.) of some NYC neighborhoods(if you've been there, obviously). I have a sociology/social science background, so I'm very interested in culture and socio-economic stuff.

For example:

Barrio _____ in Cali, which is strata 4 looks like Jamaica, Queens but feels as safe as Astoria, Queens.

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 4, 2005, 18:13:

BAQ, I think it depends on the city. I don't see any difference between my wife's Strata 4 barrio and the Strata 5 barrio in Laureles a few blocks over. Higher utility and tax rates is all. If being in a higher barrio was so wonderful, why did they fight a higher designation?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on Sep 4, 2005, 18:57:

BXunika, first, you dont have to worry.. about walking to the store at 10pm, because supermarket close 9pm in most places. In terms of walking alone at night in Cali, most dont if they can help it, even in decent areas. My amigas told me they would not feel comfortable walking TWO BLOCKS off of Avienda sexta when it's dark.

At the La FLora by Exito, i was told by people living there that it was safe to walk alone at night in that area.

I walked around the most exclusive area of Medellin & Bogota and those areas are VERY SIMILAR to really rich areas in the US(beverly hills, park avenue, etc.,) BUT "middle class, strata 3" areas do NOT look or feel like middle class america. For example, Laureles(which UC mention) reminds me VERY much of east village in NYC. It safe and pleseant enough to walk at night. While a little bit over in Estadio, it was safe but you saw lots more homeless people.

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BAQ says on Sep 4, 2005, 19:35:

Caslug, the really expensive homes here in Estrada 6 have razor wire around the back yards and ALL homes here have bars in the windows. The nicer homes have a 6' metal fence around the front yard with electric gates and driveway entrances. That is "Standard" here. I have a 6' steel fence around my front yard, electric gates and a 10' concrete wall in the back with razor wire on top.

In Colombia, the more security, the better :-)

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Sep 4, 2005, 19:59:

I don't see the difference Even in the nicest areas of NYC, all the businesses have metal gates, with very few exceptions. Their insurance triples if they dont have em, so everybody has em. I think you guys are comparing apples and oranges.
Inside major urban centers in the USA, barbed wire, gates, and razor wire are de rigeur, and not just in poorer areas. When you go to the suburbs, they are a lot less common. The same thing here, when you get out of Bogota, you don't see that sort of thing anymore. I didn't see one metal gate or piece of barbed wire anywhere in Zipaquirá, or any bars on the windows.

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BAQ says on Sep 5, 2005, 15:16:

Cowboy, you are probably correct, depends on the city. Same as utility cost, phone service ect. Like I posted before, I can;t speak for the other cities, only Barranquilla since that is where i live.

Honestly, there is such a big difference here between a 5 & 6, I would LOVE to live in estrado 6 here, but there is no way I am going to pay twice the price for a home of equal size just for a nicer park and few Aesthetics. Hell, maybe I should move to Bogota. haha

Semper Fidelis !

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utopiacowboy says on Sep 5, 2005, 17:56:

I do notice that there seems to be a larger difference between the stratas in Monteria but even so, my mother-in-law's Strata 5 barrio there isn't any nicer (in fact I would say it was worse) than my wife's Strata 4 barrio in Medellin.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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