Still wanting to live in Colombia, but here's the real story.

poco says on Oct 30, 2006, 15:56:

I have a confortable feeling about short term bonds Colombia and earn REALLY high rates of interest.

Yes, the rate is high, a low rate is 3% per month, above 6% and no one will help you collect,, you need to have a staff of arm twisters / breakers.

One of the recent deaths,, NOT FROM NATURAL CAUSES,, was party to loan of 40 Million pesos. You, or your friends really need to know what you are getting into. Officially sanctioned death penalties are unconstitutional,, but there is a death penalty in Colombia that saves the government court costs because it is carried out by private parties.

I think the clothing industry in Colombia might be on the verge of prosperity. They are coming out with a new line of cell phone holders.



PS: Want to give your kids a chance in life? Well, I would NOT raise them in a place where there is little opportunity.

This is becoming almost comical,, in the U.S. a person needs to be lazy and incompetent to "HALF WAY FAIL".

Colombia,, where almost every professional WANTS OUT OF THE COUNTRY to earn high wages in places like the U.S. What does this tell you ?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 30, 2006, 18:52:

utopiacowboy says on Oct 30, 2006, 19:02:

I think you should sell everything you own, renounce your US citizenship and go to Colombia. Then come back in a year and tell us "I told you so!". You'd be the first to come back and say it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 30, 2006, 21:55:

Rubito, my man, nothing would please me more than that you are the one who comes back and crows "I told you so!". I just get the feeling that some of these guys are too suburban for Colombia but maybe I'm wrong. For you though, the place is perfect!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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mecca says on Oct 30, 2006, 22:07:

check here https://linea.davivienda.com/davivienda.jsp

Dafuturo (what they call their 12 month cd) paid over 18 % almost 19 in 2005...be very careful this year...that is on a 12 month cd....some of us got in...and i'm currently out!! Track it...and keep in touch...also there are some pitfalls in opening investment accts. in colombia..i work with a great law firm in cali who (so far) has kept me straight.

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mecca says on Oct 30, 2006, 22:08:

check here https://linea.davivienda.com/davivienda.jsp

Dafuturo (what they call their 12 month cd) paid over 18 % almost 19 in 2005...be very careful this year...that is on a 12 month cd....some of us got in...and i'm currently out!! Track it...and keep in touch...also there are some pitfalls in opening investment accts. in colombia..i work with a great law firm in cali who (so far) has kept me straight.

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jnlondon says on Oct 31, 2006, 01:13:

My 2 pesos (1/12 of a cent) I wouldn't run a business down here. I wouldn't dare show my face behind a bar or desk. You'd get it blown off. I wouldn't mind investing into a family run business however -- contributing to the wife's or in-law's business secretly behind the scenes.

I wouldn't live in a low to middle class area with lots of other people around. You'll stand out big time or you'll hide (like I do) big time. A finka outside the city in a secure closed community is best for safety from what I've seen. A fancy condo in a highrise in the 'rich' part of town is second. Anything else is risky imho.

I'd price out a finka/house/condo + anual bills and just save up the money in the U.S. before coming. For $50k+ U.S. you can buy a nice finka out of the city or a nice condo in the rich part of the city. Then you're left with utilities and food and medical which is typically cheap. Food can begin to rack up if you splurge alot (i.e. Frisby, El Corral, Snickers bars, etc,..)

From what I'm learning, the trick is to keep a low profile when you're out in public so you don't get targeted for robbery. Dress down, don't speak english to loud or at all, walk from destination to destination like you know where you're going.

My biggest give away in public isn't me but my wife. Everytime she gets mad she argues in English now. Used to be she'd argue in Spanish back in the states. I truly believe she wants me mugged.

Also, you're kids will be accepted. I've seen several quasi - european - ish looking kids here. But, the schools are not near as nice as U.S. schools as far as amenities, at least from what I've seen. I'm not sure how the overall education quality compares however -- maybe equivalent.

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bufalo says on Oct 31, 2006, 06:09:

Yeah, I kind of see UC's point, too many dorks come down here for the first time and start talking up a storm and have no clue as to how things work. they also want all of their luxuries. the other side is that many come down here and make out just fine. I'm still here in Colombia, trying to do it, we'll have to see how things go in the next year....

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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bufalo says on Oct 31, 2006, 07:27:

Just curious Tinto, (you can see I have no clue here). What kind of money are we talking about here. Say someone wants to live "a normal life" in Colombia, say 2 million a month or so. How much would you have to invest in brazilian bonds?

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Crazy4Cali says on Oct 31, 2006, 08:58:

Why in the heck? Why would a gringo want to start a business in Colombia? Especially when there are so many easier places to do that, Costa Rica or Nicaragua (the Costa Rica of the 21st Century), for example? Costa Rica is already tourist-friendly (lots of tour companies, no kidnappings, etc.) Nicaragua is now where Costa Rica was 20 or 30 years ago so if you're in it for the long term, that might be a better place to buy in to now.

But Colombia, for all its rustic, Latin American charm, is a nice place to visit la familia, but a really tough place to start (and keep) a business.

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 31, 2006, 09:40:

Who you gonna call? Your local ghostbusters! Better be on good terms with the paramilitares or have them in your employ.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 31, 2006, 09:44:

That would be my number one worry in opening a business that served the public. You can install all kinds of security and mitigation measures and accept some percent of employee theft, but what do you do when you are threatened with extortion? Pack up and move home or align yourself with someone equally nasty on the other side?

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 31, 2006, 11:57:

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again. If you're leaving the US because you think it's a "rat race" you have no idea how difficult a rat race can be until you've tried to make it in Colombia. For an average American there are basically two ways to live a decent life in Colombia: One, get an expat position with a decent (read foreign) salary and live a nice life in a good part of Bogota, Medellin or Cartagena. The other option is to earn money outside Colombia such as via investments, a US based business, or even working part time in the US. You can drive a cab for a couple months in San Francisco or NY and make more than a year of working a Colombian job.

Colombians work their asses off for low pay and long hours. Unless you are some extraordinary entrepreneur, it's really hard to come down to Colombia and just open up a profitable business. Believe me, Colombians are good at business.

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nine inch nails says on Oct 31, 2006, 14:04:

IS THERE A WAY... to relocate to South Florida? Don't know where you live (Seattle??) but visiting Colombia is a lot easier/quicker from here than any other place in the U.S. I guess that is why a lot of Colombians live here.

If you had the means you could buy a second home there and almost commute monthly or bi-weekly from MIA. A lot easier if you have the means I understand plus SOFLA is expensive place to live. Wish I had the means to do it now.

The Hedge funds have all gone wild on us!

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bufalo says on Oct 31, 2006, 17:46:

Rubito, as far as the schooling is concerned. It can be way more expensive than that. Here in Armenia, the Gimnasio Ingles is about a million a month - plus all the other stuff they charge you for. The really BAD thing about private schools here is that there are only way upper-crust kids. Everyone has a private driver, bodyguard, cook....whatever. The kids have never heard the word "no" in their life. My debate is if I want my child growing up with them.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 31, 2006, 19:30:

panthdave says on Nov 1, 2006, 03:13:

Agree with AMTICO Relocate to South Florida Might sound crazy and expensive but know many Colombians that work in Miami and have residence in Colombia.. I know a wife that has a small business here in Miami and the husband is in Bogota..They go back and forth...I go back and forth to Medellin all the time but work only 15 minutes from MIA...Currently stay at a friends house there but looking for an apartment so I can keep things there so will be easier when I go down.. Hard to make money in Colombia and also you will not get a working visa only a business visa..I have only seen Bed and Breakfast business that cater to Americans or Europeans do okay..but you need bucks...remember no financing and if so forget it because interest too high each month and your business will not make it. Get a job in Miami that will pay and go back and forth.. If you have family in south florida easier you can stay with them while you work..and have your house or apartment in Colombia..Trying to take a reality approach for people that need to work and make a living..Claro of course you have the ones that have bucks in the bank which they can invest but not my situation..

panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

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Brians says on Nov 1, 2006, 05:43:

Not trying to divert a thread but I have to agree with DG on this US market. The market is extremely overpriced. All our models are saying hard landing and now that we are through earnings the market will start to question wether the economy is slowing too rapidly. Now I disagree with Rubito on Brazil as the US economy is still the worlds engine. If we slow so will the rest of the world. The big debate is how much will the US engine slow the world this time. That will be seen over the next 12 months. I would never throw my money into Brazilian Bonds. You get 12% but risk your total capital and then you have inflation and the potential reversal of a BIG run in the real (2 to 1 now!!). Anyway for that type of risk you might as well be in stocks. You should not look to reinvent investments. Diversify is the most important aspect. Smarter people than us have explored this discrepancies and the market prices in the risk accordingly. I too am moving to Colombia and plan to keep only 1/3 of my investment base there in the form of real estate. I move money now into my bank account when the exchange rate is favorable. I moved a lot at 2,500. DG look at the Rydex Funds. They have inverse relationship funds that give 1 to 1 up to 2 to 1 on the opposite movement in a respective index. I have just opened a position in the Rydex Mid Cap Inverse. This gives me 2 to 1 upside for any downside move and I feel mid caps and small caps are most vulnerable to the slowing economy.

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seattle says on Nov 1, 2006, 07:45:

Moving to Florida? Why would I want to work in Colombia? No, although I've thought about it. For sure the price is right for flying to Colombia, but I am set on researching the move to Colombia or Costa Rica. Then only reason to really go to Colombia as I said, is that my wife's family is there and to think of being together is invaluable as well as the culture which to me seems to embrace family more than I see here. Don't get me wrong, I love it here, but there are differences therein lay the choices. Working is not an option for us as we need to build our future. Despite the good situation we have, we need to continue. My wife is a professional, I am a designer in the architectural field. A strong pipe dream of ours is the bed & breakfast idea and to actually design and build it. However, the security issues? Is it true, (jnlondon) about the 50K for a nice finka? What city are you living in if that is okay to ask? Dressing down is not necessary as I am never dressed up, you know, bluejeans and t-shirts is my style. I thought the bed & breakfast idea would keep us kind of low profile as our business is more or less our home. However that might not playout as well in the immeadiate future because we need to be located in a place in order to provide adaquate schooling for our children. How long have you been in Colombia (jnlondon). (Rubito) I am working for myself & have for most of my life. I appreciate your posts as well as all the posts. An internet cafe? Sounds intresting. How long have you been living there? What area if it is okay to ask? It sounds like you make your money by investing. I am don't know very much about that way of making money although I do have a some stocks. Haven't done very well with that. Thought about buying some apartments aside from our own residence and doing the rent thing using an agency like my father-in-law does. What do you do with your time if you are not doing a regular job thing? (To all posters), tell me why you live there? what makes you want to live there? Thanks for all the responses, but the conversations regarding investing is more or less way over my understanding level, not that I don't know what stocks & bonds are mind you.

seattle

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Brians says on Nov 1, 2006, 08:44:

Rubito Your point on the US economy is valid yet exagerrated. We are not growing our population and therefore our economy becomes less important but we will remain a substantial world economy for our lifetimes. We are now about 33% of world GDP and probably be 25%-28% in 10 years so the growth is definately outside our borders. However that being said these emergin economies have hiccups and ones which you can not recover as an investor. If you are down 50% you need a 100% just to get even. My investments are far to important to my real goals which as stated earlier is to live in Colombia without a need for a job. I would not try to stretch myself to obtain this goal earlier as it could blow up the whole plan. On another front about hyper inflation. That is such a long shot it does not desire consideration. The US dollar will always be the currency of choice with international investors. Could you imagine China buying Yen. They don't like nor trust one another. We are running a large trade imbalance and budgets are not balanced. However until there is another currency of choice(Don't tell me Euro as that is still too young) we will not see a collapse in our currency. The economy is slowing and thus so is our inflation rate. I am long US Bonds and High Quality Foreign Bonds(Non emerging market). The US market is and will be for our lifetime the economy most copied in the world. As much as everyone hates us it is amazing how much we are copied globally.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 1, 2006, 15:49:

Rubito It's funny, I used to share a lot of your sentiments about the US until I lived and worked in a real 3rd world economy, namely, Colombia. There's a lot wrong including the rising protectionism, trade imbalances, reckless debt, etc, but the US is fundamentally healthy compared to the rampant problems of other economies, including China, India and all the other big emerging markets. Diversifying is smart. Shorting the US economy isn't.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 1, 2006, 18:50:

dibbs says on Nov 1, 2006, 21:41:

re: Seattle the Colombian government bond market faces several constraints, including limited funding that comes primarily from short-term bank debt, and a settlement process that requires independent dealers and other market participants to maintain significant liquidity to settle their daily trading positions. i think Rubito makes a point with brazilian bonds that can diversify your porfolio...if not bonds why dont you try buying calves and having them grow on somebody else's farm, and in a year or two selling them as cows, you dont have to take care of them you just pay a monthly fee to the farm to take care and feed these animals for you, the return is 100%, that's if they dont die!, then again you have to take a risk!

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bufalo says on Nov 2, 2006, 04:59:

Seatle, I'm here in Armenia, my wife is from here, but we've lived in various parts and other countries. Work is a tough thing, especially here as it is not a major city. We are looking into opening up something but are wary as it would be something new for us (but if you don't risk anything you get nothing). We may stay here in Armenia or possibly go to Leticia, Amazonas where we lived for about half a year.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 2, 2006, 08:01:

Rubito, pistachios, dude!
Rubito, pistachios, dude!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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cali373 says on Nov 2, 2006, 08:07:

Well Crazy4 Costa Rica is almost a US protectorate like Puerto Rico and starting a business there would be like starting a business in the US. There are too many americans there. Nicaragua is the 3rd (or 4th) poorest country in Latin America, why would anyone want to start a business there instead of Colombia? And worst of all there are no Colombians there.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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miamimike says on Nov 2, 2006, 12:08:

Cali373--Actually the Guadalajara Mexico Area is Probably one of the best areas where an American can set up a Business. It has the largest American Retirement Population(and growing daily)in the Americas and these retirees generate a demand for a lot of services. I saw one Help Wanted Ad there recently for American Nurses and Real estate Sales Agents! That was a First! The Mexican Government encourages these Expat Businesses because it all generates Business and Lots of Money!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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seattle says on Nov 2, 2006, 12:50:

Comments & Questions (Miamimike) Are you living in Colombia? Our desire is to be as close to our family as possible. So far I am still thinking on Colombia. It is just finding possibilities and weighing the pros & cons. The cow thing is something I've though about because I've know a person that has done it there outside of Bogota.
(Cali373) Costa Rica would be the choice if safty in Colombia is a problem for us, however, the times I've been to Colombia, I've never had a problem so again, I am still thinking Colombia and want to be near my family. (rubito) You are living in NY and going to Colombia without your family? Sounds hard to me. I am also a muscian but solo (for myself & family). We write songs. Perhaps you could tell me more about what you intend to do in Colombia. Do you have contacts in the music business? (bufalo) I don't know the location of where you are living, but I am going to look it up on a map. I take it that you are a gringo. How did you meet your wife. I met mine here and knew each other for 3 years befor we married there in Colombia. I think working for yourself is the best way to go. At least that has been my experience for most of my life. (dibbs) I think both are great ideas. The one person I know in Colombia that had cows started out with 4 and in the end sold out with 25 cows. He said that they multiplied quickly. He did well. What do you think of the farm/bed & breakfast idea for my family? We have thought that the bed & breakfast would be later because the kids need to be in the city for their education we think. I tell you, if I could edcuate them living out on a finka as well as in the city, I would. The city life is not so exciting. Nevertheless, we think to live, work & invest in the city while planning & building the bed & breakfast. Please tell me more of what you think. Are you currently living in Colombia and for how long. Do you live in Bogota? Thanks all for the responses!

seattle

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rrivas says on Nov 2, 2006, 16:03:

English Teaching If you want to teach it's a greaT OPTION. Schools provide help with settling, it will guarantee a good education for your children at a lower price. If you are a professional in sciences or history a job can be found.

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rrivas says on Nov 2, 2006, 16:03:

English Teaching If you want to teach it's a greaT OPTION. Schools provide help with settling, it will guarantee a good education for your children at a lower price. If you are a professional in sciences or history a job can be found.

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 2, 2006, 16:17:

bufalo says on Nov 2, 2006, 18:52:

Seattle, We're in Armenia, coffee region, even a big Juan Valdez in the local roller rink. We did live for almost half a year in Leticia, which is the southernmost part of Colombia, it is in the Amazon (nice swimming). We may go back there to live, or stay here... My experience finca-wise is that if it is a high-end one, then ok for kids. Low end ones can have problems with a lot of transient workers, especially if you have daughters. We've been to both and enjoy the lower-end ones better, except for that and other problems (won't go into it on a public board).
Teaching english at an english school doesn't pay well at all, but teaching anything in an english speaking school can pay quite nice if you are certified. There is one here in Armenia. Problem is is that it is filled with the highest level brats. Private drivers, private maids, private chefs.... these kids have NEVER heard the word no, a lot don't even see their parents much and almost all are huge pains in the ass. A lot of teachers leave before their contract is up because they can't take them.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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dibbs says on Nov 2, 2006, 23:06:

Re: Seattle hey seattle, unfortunately i'm no longer in colombia..my company made me live the good life there then returned me to cold canada....but i still have business interests and investments there, which means i fly there a lots...well your idea of a B&B is not bad at all,Colombia is at a turning point in its history from a political and economic standpoint,It's the right time to come in.
as Uribe is making the country safer and more free trade doors are open more opprtunities for investments are coming..hence tourists/backpackers...so you can open a you hostel!, according to hostelling international there are only 8 accredited hostels in colombia..i know you dont want to live in a city..but for 2-3 years that's not bad..while maintening cows on some farmers' ranch..you have money coming from all sides and not to forget the colombian stock market had the second highest growth in the world last year!! go figure!

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miamimike says on Nov 2, 2006, 23:48:

Cali 373, No I Do not live in Colombia but probably the next closet thing, that being Miami. LOL

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 3, 2006, 12:00:

Debt is only a small issue The problem with that scenario is that even a massive default by foreign debtors won't really harm the core of the US economy. Foreign debt is a useful tool for propping up favored ideologies, and it's a great way for the powers that be in the US government to scratch the back of the powers that be in the US business sector, but you could eliminate the whole racket tomorrow and the economy would hardly hiccup.

I laugh at the idea of China or Russia taking the place of the US as the primary source of debt financing. The Chinese are afraid to even float their currency and find its real value, so I don't think the world is going to rush to redenominate their debts there. Russia is still just too corrupt. It'd be like moving your debt from Citibank to Vinnie the loanshark -- totally self-defeating.

If the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, etc really wanted to play the international debt game they could, but given the lack of a coherent alternative currency to compete with the Dollar (which they buy up in huge amounts) I don't see how it would work.

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seattle says on Nov 3, 2006, 13:32:

Gator & DonGringo You guys seem like about the most long timers living in Colombia that have replied to my posts. Could you reiterate your opinions on making the move with my wife & children. Your thoughts of school, safety... the B&B idea, opinions of investing in cows, buying a farm and/or haveing a small coffee shop/pastry... in the interm. What do you do for a living if that's okay to ask as well as the city you live in. Do you have children? My wife would have no problem working as she is a professional with several contacts there. However as a gringo and one who loves his inlaws, wife & children, I do not want to endanger any of them and want to make the best choices for our life. To be in Colombia would enable us to have family, one of our most treasured values. As I know the typical life in Bogota for example, it doesn't seem to be so dangerous, but I have not tried to live there. Only been there for a few months once & 2 other times for a month each. Hardly enought time to really get a grasp on the reality, and I'm guessing that living and working would probably be alot different than my impressions perhaps. I have traveled the coast, San Andres, Providencia & Bogota. I liked Santa Marta, Cartagena & the countryside of Bogota very much. Never been to the other major cities.

seattle

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 3, 2006, 15:15:

my comment always have a back up plan if nothing go right in Colombia. I moved to Colombia when my kids were very small, we did come back to the UK after nearly 8 month of being there, but just because my husband could not settle in Colombia, but it wasn't hard because we had a second plan in case it didn't work in Colombia. To tell you the truth i think it was a good decision just because of the Kids, her Education was a bit better here than there, and they had better oportunities here. now that one is in college and the other one is one year more to go to college i don't mind in the future retiring there. if I stay here for such a long time was partly because i like it and second because education wise my kids have so much oportunities and experiences here than in Colombia

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seattle says on Jul 3, 2007, 17:38:

seattle

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