State of Emergency

Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 19, 2005, 15:31:

Ahnold "Schwarzenegger supports the construction of a fence along California's border with Mexico"

Clearly Arnold hasn't been near the California border with Mexico, which is characterized by a gigantic fence (actually more of a DMZ) in virtually any urban or semi-urban area?

Crazy Eagle says on Aug 19, 2005, 15:32:

liberty versus security That is the trade off. Ever since 9/11 politicians of a fascist leaning have been doing all they can to exploit the irrational panic in order to further curtail our civil liberties.

No, I do not want to see a national ID card. Not here, not there, not anywhere. Just another device to register us with the Feds. What's next? Biometric tracking devices implanted in all of us, so that Big Brother can track our every movement?

Terrorism is a minor nuisance. In the two years following 9-11 ZERO Americans were killed by terrorists. Meanwhile, hundreds were killed by lightning. Why don't we put up lightning rods on every street corner and in every park and golf course? Why don't we pass laws keeping people indoors during rain storms?

If you are concerned that people of Latin descent are being hassled, then join the ACLU and support them in their struggle to preserve our shrinking civil liberties.

"A nation that would trade liberty for security deserves neither." Ben Franklin

"The natural rhythm of life is routine punctuated by orgy" Aldous Huxley

protocol13 says on Aug 19, 2005, 15:58:

National ID Some people love to make a mountain out of a mole hill. A national ID should be implemented and will centralized all the personal info that is already available and accesable to the goverment through SS#, credit cards, tax returns and driver's license and others. Personally, I have not noticed any difference in my loss of liberty prior to the implementation of the Patriot Act and after. I have traveled to Mexico and Japan, with no hindrances. The only ones that need to fear from the Patriot Act will be the criminals and the terrorists.

ws244 says on Aug 19, 2005, 16:20:

natl id When Franklin made this statement it was with the thought the United States was to be a Republic. This was founded as a Republic and was a great country for 175 years until 40 years ago, where it ceased in being and has been a politically correct, equal opportunity, Democracy ever since. There is a great difference between a Republic and a Democracy, and the result of the latter are the results we see today. Fascism is between communism and Capitalism, under Communisn the opposition is killed off, under Capitalism they are starved off, and in Fascism is by either or both methods.

Gator says on Aug 19, 2005, 18:42:

There IS One In the USA... It's called a driver license backed up by a Social Security card.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

CaryGrant says on Aug 20, 2005, 10:23:

"Personally, I have not noticed any difference in my loss of liberty prior to the implementation of the Patriot Act and after."

Of course not. It will likely be some years (barring another crisis) before those in control fully implement more restrictions. Bureaucracy moves slowly, but it does creep inexorably forward, and the bureaucrats will find ways to use the Patriot Act (and other means, no doubt) to consolidate power. That's what governments do - take power from you 'for your own good.'

tomtom33 says on Aug 21, 2005, 05:54:

Cary Governments over time tend to do what the populace wants them to do. They are a necessary evil.

miamimike says on Aug 21, 2005, 11:01:

Something new is needed... A document that the counterfeiting rings are unable to duplicate without a great degree of difficulty. An expose was on 20/20 a while back about how easy it was after paying $75 you could get a set of of Fake IDs including a SS Card and aa Driver's License in a few hours on the streetcorners of any of the Major US Cities. They need a card with Biometrics, i.e. fingerprint, Iris ect and that wouuld go a long way in rectifying the fraud. If it prevents terrorists from pulling off another 9/11 well worh it. Why should law abiding citizens mind carrying one of these anyhow?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

drummer says on Aug 21, 2005, 11:37:

ARIZONA I live in Arizona. The political pressures applied to the governor here is the ONLY reason she followed New Mexico in the state of emergency. She has in fact stalled many initiatives to curb the flow of illegal immigration. It is said at this moment, 50% of all border crossings are into Arizona.
We have a red hot construction boom....the hottest housing market in the world, and tourism is increasing many times over. These are the major industries using immigrant labor, to consider raiding a jobsite for inspection of papers would be job termination.
A couple of months ago, an American army sargent detained 7 mexican nationals, and called Border Patrol to assist identification. He was arrested and later released without charges....5 days later. Documentation (forged) costs between $100.00 and $300.00 that will surpass a speeding ticket. Also the going rate for a non-hispanic to be escorted to the American border by the mexican army is $50,000. This is according to a border patrol agent I spoke with last week. During the month the minutemen were here, the mexican army transported many mexicans to other corrodors to cross to prevent interaction with the minutemen. It is a good time to be in the Mexican Army.
Of course, if a terrorist incident occurs in Phoenix, there is a possibility some of the 600,000 illegals here will be affected.

kernow62 says on Aug 21, 2005, 13:04:

Mike you should see all the fancy crap on my greencard, it is really high tech compared to the old ones. There are holograms of me, and all sorts of weird crap on it. It would be a real tough thing to counterfeit. I would not mind a national identity card.

I also don't mind the high tech cameras we have in the UK, I would like to see them in the US. While they can be used to establish guilt or at least place one at a crime scene at a specific time they can also be used just as easily to establish that you were nowhere near the crime scene. Once your facial features or your number plate are loaded in the system many of these systems can automatically track your vehicle in real time and others can pick you out of a crowded stadium from almost 1/8 of a mile away.

miamimike says on Aug 21, 2005, 17:02:

Those UK Cameras amazed me.. in the number and locations.That really helped round up those guys responsable for the bombs. Sad thing, with all the technology, that Brazilan guy was shot; however that was a fault with human error more then one of technology.I haven't seen the new Green Cards like yours yet! You know that Muhammed Atta(9/11 pilot) was using a Visa (tourist) and it may have been expired-now our Illustrious Miami US Immigration agents should have stopped him dead in his tracks just for that but no, they gave him a home free pass and then he went to that flight school in Ft.Pierce, Fl. and switched his visa status to that of student. We all know what happened later but the sad thing is a lot of this was HUMAN ERROR and JUDGEMENT. Muhammed Atta in the summer of 2001(june I beleive) ditched a little Piper Cub type plane here in the Miami Airport only a few months before 9/11.They knew this Guy! Also tried to buy another Cropduster plane here in south miami for "Farming Purposes" Hello INS! WHAT was immigration thinking, knowing of this plane abandonment, letting this GUY pass thru the Lines at MIAMI Immigration on his return from Spain(mid-summer), where he finalized plans for the fateful 9/11??? How many RED FLAGS did INS need? This WAS HUMAN ERROR and was PREVENTABLE! US Immigration INspectors fault!! And then, Like 6 months after 9/11, US Immigration sent a Student Visa Renewal(for ATTA)to the FLIGHT school where he learned to fly. These INS Folks are amazingly imcompetent and a few of 'em should have been sent to jail for life but no one in immigrtaion is ever held responsable. Doesn't seem to have improved markedly either!!!Least not in Miami!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Rubiazo says on Aug 22, 2005, 05:54:

It doesnt matter what they doto try and prevent terrorism. Terrorists can easily be people who are keeping their nose clean, here legally etc. They dont need to overstay visas to be terrorists. The cat is out of the bag already. The enemy isnt external. Really there is no enemy. There is no traditional way to fight this.
The problem with the system here is that being ´sindocumentado´is a criminal offense, and this can be used by the police to harass the indigent and the poor, instead of just to combat terrorism as it was originally intended. That is definitely the case with the onerous new measures being implemented in NYC as well. If they really want to use it to prevent terrorism, they should make it so that they can ONLY arrest people if they find evidence of terrorism, NOT a roach clip or rolling papers.
I live in the Bronx about 1/2 mile from the main reservoir where half the city gets its water. You or I could poison that reservoir with the right bottle of stuff and nobody would even notice. Thousands would die before anybody even figured out wtf was going on.

Crazy4Cali says on Aug 22, 2005, 07:49:

The real state of emergency is that they don't know what the emergency is...

The Arizona cases cited above also exist in Utah and probably many other border states (like Utah is a "border" state). A lot of noise is made about illegal immigration, but even more noise is made when prices go up when suppliers have to pay legal workers a legal wage and benefits.

People express their "concern" over human rights abuses on their way home from WalMart with a mini-van load of goods made in China and other places that don't treat their workers the way some think they should be treated.

IMO, we should either give a hearty "Thanks" to all those people (many of whom are children) who risk their lives to provide us with the goods and services we so happily consume at bargain prices or start paying "real" prices to buy goods and services provided by places that meet the standards we hold for ourselves.

But fighting "illegal" immigration while enjoying the fruits of their labor is pretty screwed up. Either find ways to make it legal (e.g. document them or something) or run ALL of them out but this "look the other way" approach is messed up and unfair to those who worked hard to get here legally.

miamimike says on Aug 22, 2005, 08:35:

shopped at wal-mart twice in my life and then I bought only american made products but I agree they(fed govt)need to make a stand one way or another but I cannot see rewarding an illegal immigrant with amnesty(as our Prez currently wants to do)as it sends out the wrong signal here in the USA that breaking the law to get here is OK and is rewarded. Not to mention, it shafts all those 1000s of immigrants who play by the books and wait in line patiently to receive their legal visa. Legal, not illegal behavior, should be rewarded.Pandering to Immigrants--It also appears this "Amnesty" has a 2nd agenda and that is generating votes amongst various immigrants groups, Latinos being the largest of these to be pandered to, sad that our laws are being subtoverted for a purpose as this. These Politicians have no shame.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

t25 says on Aug 24, 2005, 11:15:

A Much Relevant Quote Crazy Eagle's quote --

"A nation that would trade liberty for security deserves neither." Ben Franklin

Perhaps what is happening as we speak.