standard of living in Venezuela

Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 24, 2006, 23:12:

Crazy Uncle Hugo will never permit a Venezuelan PBH.... hes too busy arming everyone for "the BIG ONE!"....

Yup, like the new president of Peru said of Hugo: "a midget with a fat wallet"!


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...faltan 6 F-ing días...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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miamimike says on Jun 24, 2006, 23:34:

One Major Factor is 2000 %+ Lower In Venezuela and that is the cost of a gallon of gasoline. Last I heard, it was around 12 Cents/Gallon.In Colombia what 20 times that nore or less. If you have dollars and are away from the tourist meccas like Margarita or away from Caracas it is very reasonable. Very compaarable to colombia's cost of living, actually cheaper when you factor Gas into the mix as this overall affects everything. As Evidence, look at the affect it has had on the US Cost of living and the Economy.....BTW, People should be asking where the Money from all the Petro Earnings went PRIOR to the Arrival of Chavez--Venezuela's problem didn't just start when Hugo came to town yet to listen to some posters not familiar with Venezuelan politics/history, they would like to heap all the blame on this President. Like Chavez says of GW Bush, a Mental Midget with a Fat Credit Card who is plunging the US Taxpayers deep into debt with his Iraq Crusade.....

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billyb says on Jun 24, 2006, 23:47:

For the Venezuela... site just go to WWW.poorbutunhappy.com

BillyB

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juanalejo says on Jun 25, 2006, 06:11:

Petrodollars People know where money was, the barrel of crude was worth US 18 a few years back compared to US 70 now. That is why Chavez could do nothing but see his indicators down the drain, it is very evident to see how incompetent he was when the budget was tight. But even now just go to Caracas and see if things are much better. Unfortunatelly for them even Garzon in Bogota has done a better job with the poor with far less money than he has with his new fat wallet.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jun 25, 2006, 07:50:

There is an ongoing debate about whether poverty is increasing or decreasing in Venezuela. The govt said it was increasing but then changed their method of measuring. A Ven. university says things are slightly better but not as much as they should be given the extra billions flowing into the country.



See the June 20th and June 22nd blog entries (and responses) for the play-by-play.



http://andresoppenheimer.blogspot.com/



For English language news and analysis and additional links about Venezuela, you can check out:

www.vheadline.com

www.vcrisis.com



I think the above two sites are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 25, 2006, 10:49:

Surely everyone knows where the oil money is going. Same place it's always gone. Lining Uncle Hugo's pockets. Just as George W. is enriching his buddies at the oil companies, Hugo and his pals are raking it in. They are all pond scum.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Jun 25, 2006, 11:23:

UTC, the Question however remains unanswered "People should be asking where the Money from all the Petro Earnings went PRIOR to the Arrival of Chavez--Venezuela's problem didn't just start when Hugo came to town yet to listen to some posters not familiar with Venezuelan politics/history, they would like to heap all the blame on this President" Had a 1/2 of Venezuela's OIL Money earned in the recent past(say last 40 years)been retained and spent on infrastructure for example, it would have been the Paris of south America with fine universities, public transportation, Roads, Hospitals, Research, housing stock. In contrast to Bush who took away a sizeable surplus, we know where that money went--Iraq. The question, why weren't more objections raised back in 60s, 60s, 80s, early 90s when the Venezuelan Treasury was being looted. Had all these Shills yelled back then chances are Venezuela would never be in the place they are today. Guess they were OUR Dictators so it was OK LOL.. Like Saddam, Pinochet and Noriega were for the US way back when, OK because we picked them LOL.....Our Puppets...

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miamimike says on Jun 25, 2006, 11:28:

Not a fair comparison JuanA.. your comaparison of Oil at $70 to $18 because you failed to adjust for Inflation. Even Oil sold at $10/Gallon bought a lot more in 1970 then today's $70 per gallon Oil. They, Venezuela, earned Megabucks back in the 60s-70s when it come to actual buying power. Even Jean Paul Getty(1892-1976) our own Oil Barron(getty oil then later Texaco) will tell you that, seems he did very well when Oil was a couple bucks a Barrel ......the original question was the poster asked about the cost of living comparisons and I still feel with 12 cents per gallon for Gas, overall, this will greatly affect the cost of Living as nowdays everything is affected by the price of Oil/Gas in your country ; Hard to argue on that one!!!

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juanalejo says on Jun 25, 2006, 20:26:

Oil was at 18 when Hugo Chavez landed as president that is just a few years back, I am not talking 1970. He did nothing for several years and he is now trying to appear as the savior thanks to the incredible jump in oil prices in the last few years.

And no I do not find Caracas cheaper than Bogotá, except for petrol, cars and tolls everything else seems more expensive.

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miamimike says on Jun 26, 2006, 01:32:

So Juan, tell me where all the moola went from say 1960- until Chavez came into Power? Sure wasn't spent on Public work projects, housing ect. I never said or implied he was Venezuela's Savior only that conversely "all" of Venezuela's problems weren't a result of his being in Office. That would be like blaming Urribe for all of Colombia's present day problems; they(problems in venezuela) started way way before him and its impossible to correct the shortcomings in less then decade, like colombia.

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Bruce V. Shrader says on Jun 26, 2006, 06:32:

venezuela check out "venezuelatuya.com"
also, do a google on "Guri"
Guri is a Hydroelectric Power Plant in Eastern Venezuela.
One of the largest in the world.
I worked on this project in 1966 and 1967.
Some of this about Venezuela may not be all true.

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miamimike says on Jun 26, 2006, 11:13:

Bruce, that website is pretty informative "http://venezuelatuya.com"

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juanalejo says on Jun 26, 2006, 18:32:

Venezuela I would agree that hardly any of the problems are originally due to Chavez, but that does not excuse him for doing nothing for most of his presidency. Money was quite well spent until early 1980´s, very good infrastructure, great universities for free (still up to today), good museums, theatres, etc. Then came the population boom and the steady decrease in oil prices (plus corruption) and Venezuela has been steadily going down for a couple of decades now. And if you add the Venezuelan attitude of still being masters of the universe and their lack of interest for working ... that is what the Venezuelan Saudi (as they call it) did for them. Chavez has only done one good thing and it is the wake up call to reality they have had to live through.

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Rubiazo says on Jun 26, 2006, 22:06:

In the 1970s everybody else in Latin America was moving there. Now its kinda the opposite.

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toneloc24 says on Jun 26, 2006, 23:05:

My two cents I have a buddy who goes down to Caracas often, and he emphatically states that it's much cheaper than Bogota (food, etc.). I'll eventually get down there to see for myself. I gotta see what 12 cent/gallon of gasoline looks like.

Whatever his politics, the "midget with the new fat wallet" has definitively made more of an effect on the world than Uribe. Venezuela's economy is primarily based on its natural resources. They have a leader determined to protect that. You may not like it, but you at least have to respect that.

Here's a recent article on the dude. Degrade him if you want but...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1199709,00.html

How Hugo Chavez Has Primed the Gas Pump

As OPEC leaders gather in Venezuela, the oil cartel hails the fiery leftist leader who has given it new muscle
By TIM PADGETT/CARACAS
Posted Wednesday, May. 31, 2006

When most Americans think of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries — OPEC, the world's most powerful energy cartel — they usually envision Arab sheikhs lording over oil drills in the desert. But the organization's more important home today arguably lies half a world away among the lush hills and beaches of Venezuela, which has the hemisphere's largest oil reserves.

Since leftist President Hugo Chávez began convincing the cartel's 11 member nations (of which Venezuela is a founder) to rein in world oil supply again after he took office in 1999, the price of crude has lept from less than $10 per barrel to a record $70-plus today.

So Chávez is using the occasion of hosting a major OPEC meeting this week to trumpet the new mojo he's helped give OPEC — as well as to lobby to bring oil-producing neighbors like Ecuador into OPEC. "This OPEC meeting holds a lot of meaning for us," says Chávez's Energy Minister, Rafael Ramírez. "It's a celebration of the realization of our policies."

In an interview with TIME last week in Bolivia, where Venezuela is aiding the oil and natural-gas nationalization decreed this month by leftist President Evo Morales, Ramírez affirmed that he and Chávez will again call on OPEC to curtail oil production. The reason, he insisted, is to keep prices at "simply the fair market level for our most important natural resource," which now generates $83 billion per year for Venezuela compared to $53 billion in 2000. OPEC ministers will probably decline to cut back output much, if at all, especially since the record revenues they're enjoying would make it a difficult public relations feat. Still, Ramírez says he doubts the cartel will ever again allow prices to sink as low, or outputs to rise as high, as they did at the end of the 20th century, when Venezuela was even considering dropping out of OPEC shortly before Chávez's election.

At that time, Venezuela was a robust ally of the U.S., but Chávez has taken a decidedly (and often stridently) more anti-Washington tack — even diverting some of his exports to China and India to help break his country's dependence on the market to the North. "The traditional lack of control over natural resources like oil" among developing nations like OPEC's, Ramírez says, "has done profound damage to our economies for too long. We've created a new, more active awareness about our energy sovereignty."

Some of Venezuela's supply reduction has resulted less from strategy than from political upheaval; a 2002-2003 strike by workers and managers at Venezuela's state-run oil monopoly who opposed Chávez didn't help, and and analysts believe that the fiery leader's recent actions to exert more state control over drilling projects has reduced investment. (Venezuela insists it is producing up to 3.5 million barrels a day, though many analysts put it at little over 2.5 million.) But the bottom line is that since 2000, the last time Chávez hosted an OPEC gathering, the cartel's daily output has increased by fewer than 2 million barrels to 28 million today — even as the exploding petro-appetite of emerging giants like China and India has put enormous new pressures on global oil supplies, and prices.

But Ramírez, widely recognized as one of OPEC's most hawkish, and hard-working, energy ministers, insists Americans are committing "a gross simplification" if they want to blame Chávez for $3-a-gallon gasoline this summer. "Consumers, especially Americans, have to start taking their share of responsibility for this situation," says Ramírez, whose country is the U.S.'s fourth-largest foreign crude supplier. "The U.S.'s reckless oil consumption is turning into its own suicide. The Americans have a lot of work ahead of them with regard to energy policy." At the same time, he adds, "Americans should remember that when your Congress asked the international oil companies last fall to step up and provide subsidized heating fuel oil to poor residents in the U.S., only Citgo" — the oil firm owned by the Venezuelan government — "did so, despite the enormous profits the U.S. oil companies are making today."

Venezuela may have another reason to celebrate at this week's meeting, which will be held on Thursday before Chávez takes OPEC delegates to El Salto Angel, the world's highest waterfall, in southeast Venezuela. The country, which has about 78 billion barrels of proven crude reserves, also sits atop an estimated 275 billion barrels of heavy crude, which new technology has allowed to become more refinable and, as a result, a more legitimate addition to a nation's reserves. Should OPEC ratify Venezuela's heavy crude as bona fide reserves, the country would eclipse Saudi Arabia (260 billion barrels) as the global oil king. "Venezuela has never been this well positioned in the world," says Ramírez. Nor, it seems, has OPEC — and neither Ramírez nor Chávez are likely to let their Middle Eastern counterparts forget that it was Venezuela that helped pull the cartel out of the low-price desert.

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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juanalejo says on Jun 27, 2006, 09:51:

Chavez Trying to give credit to Chavez to what the Irak war, the lack of reserves around the world, the high economic growth of 1.2 billion people in India, the continued growth of China and in general the health of the world economy in the last few years, have done to the price of oil is not quite objective. All producing nations have said they are producing to the maximum, so difficult to see price control there, I can see demand rising prices quite clearly though.

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toneloc24 says on Jun 27, 2006, 10:45:

at DG Respectfully, you really underestimate the rest of the world. The USA is not the only game in town. There's an inherent superiority complex that people from the USA need to come to grips with.

Venezuela has other options. India and China have larger markets than the USA, and in the future, their spending power will increase. Chavez is playing that against the USA.

The energy companies are not the type to hang your hat on as the most scrupulous, esp. US companies. Much of this "hate" that you refer to, lays at the feet of them, all around the world. Raping a country of its natural resources, offering little profit to the home country, most of which goes to the US puppets and their handlers, eventually catches up. The sugar and fruit companies also figure into this.

Chavez is a popular figure in his country for this reason. He's standing up to the US companies and their policies. The people who are so up in arms were the same people who MiamiMike has been referring to. Hoarding the profits for themselves for decades. Maintaining the status quo as the USA's puppet. Sound familiar in Colombia and throughout the Americas?

Do I agree with all of his policies? Hell nah.

The oil companies are going absolutely nowhere. Venezuela is a major player in the US oil industry. They'll play Chavez's game, for now. If you hear about an assassination attempt on his life, you will know exactly where it comes from. LOL!!!

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2006, 11:59:

Someome commented Venezuela Does Not Have Refineries in the US and that is Not true; Chavez owns 8 Citgo Refineries on the Gulf Coast of the USA."Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said his government may sell eight U.S. refineries as part of a strategy by the world's fifth-largest supplier of oil to reduce dependency on sales to the U.S.

``Not one Venezuelan works at these refineries,'' Chavez said in Buenos Aires yesterday, according to Venezuela's Communication and Information Ministry. ``They don't give us one cent of profit. They don't pay taxes in Venezuela. This is economic imperialism.''

Chavez, who on Jan. 30 signed agreements with China to boost sales of gas and oil to the world's second-largest energy consumer after the U.S., also said he may sell refineries in Germany, Sweden and the U.K., according to the ministry's Web site.

Venezuela's threat to exit businesses in the U.S. reflects stepped up rhetoric by Chavez, 50, a friend of Cuban President Fidel Castro, to reduce business with the U.S., buyer of about half of all Venezuelan oil exports.

In the past several weeks, state oil company Petroleos de Venezuela SA vowed to review 33 contracts with ChevronTexaco Corp., ConocoPhillips and other oil field operators in the country and rejected a business plan by Houston-based Harvest Natural Resources to drill.

`Serious Concerns'
Personally I think it has been a Shortcoming on the Bush Administration for Ignoring Venezuela diplomatically for the last 6 years, as they have done also to almost all of latin America, excluding Colombia and if it wasn't for the Cocaine eradication taking place I doubt there would be any relation there either, that is a relation between Col&USA. Now, Latin America has swung to the Left so be it, its their countries and let them elect who they want. Even now in yesterday's paper, it shows where our US Ambassador to Venezuela continues his meddling in Venezuela's Poltiics, attempting to foment political upheaval in Venezuela. I wasn't aware that this was the mission of US embassies and ambassadors!
More on this here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=aP3vwKnY0rNU&refer=latin_america

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2006, 12:36:

More on this Meddling By the US Ambassador... Why can't they leave Venezuela alone and let them elect who they want, last I knew, Venezuela was a Sovereign nation and the residents are empowered to elect who they desire. If they aren't satisfied, let them, the residents who live there, change the situation. Meanwhile keep that oil flowing here in the US, its all about the Oil and $$$ isn't it....

From the Miami herald 6/26/06:

U.S. ACCUSED OF URGING VOTE BOYCOTT

CARACAS -- U.S. officials are urging opponents of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez to boycott a December presidential election as part of a larger plan aimed at causing political upheaval in this South American nation, a government official said Monday.

Information Minister Willian Lara said U.S. Embassy officials have held meetings with opposition-sided presidential candidates and instructed them to pull out of the election campaign in November to leave Chávez alone in the Dec. 3 race.

''We have information about meetings that have been held in which the idea of participating in the electoral campaign until November and then withdrawing from it has been proposed,'' Lara told a press conference.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Salomé Hernández, referring to Lara's allegations, said: ``We don't respond to baseless accusations

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 28, 2006, 15:40:

They certainly are meddlers.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 28, 2006, 15:47:

De acuerdo. I thought George was an excellent governor of Texas but he's gone too far. They use 9/11 as an excuse for everything they do. I have voted Republican for 20 years but in November it's straight Democrat and let the heads roll.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2006, 16:43:

DG-You are spot on with your post In regards to our State Dept,"They don't represent the people anymore" spot on! Get in a difficult situation in a Foreign country, being sequestered or arrested for example and see how much help is forthcoming out of our US Embassy(don't hold your breath LOL). You are right on the Money!!!

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toneloc24 says on Jun 28, 2006, 17:06:

Respectfully Chavez is not as important as our State Dept., under this current US administration, makes him. All simply because of oil. The State Dept are not representing the USA with these actions in Venezuela. They are representing the energy lobby.

Unfortunately, the Republican party has sold the USA out over and over during the past 5 years. Big business runs the US government. It's just completely hilarious watching tried and true Republicans run away from their party now. Esp. when the current administration been doing the same BS for 5 yrs. It's kinda like the dudes on this board who marry some Colombianas and realize AFTER that they aren't blow-up dolls. The proof was in your face the entire time. Now, how fair and balanced was Fox News again? LOL!!!

By the way, UC, Bush killed more people (death penalty) while governor of Texas than any governor in the rich history of the USA. Educational system sucked as did health care. Oh yeah, and then there's.....Enron. The writing was on the wall.

As for me, in November, I'm voting independent. Fuck Republicans, fuck Democrats. They both are to be blamed for what's expired in the past 5 years. The USA DESERVES what's occurred in the past 5 years. They were voted in. Maybe we'll wake up and require our representatives to be more accountable, as opposed to blindly choosing.

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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utopiacowboy says on Jun 28, 2006, 21:50:

Bush governed Texas exactly the way that the residents wanted it governed. I've lived in many of the other 49 states and I wouldn't trade any one of them for Texas. Maybe Montana....

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Jun 28, 2006, 22:53:

DG-I saw that with Isreal! we need a Prez with Cojones for sure! Reminded me of when Reagan in the 80s dropped the missile on Qadafy's Camel tent in Libya! Shut him up! I am disturbed that Bush has completely ignored south america with his Iraq Crusade the last few years with the exception of Colombia, meanwhile the Chinese are down there in many countries signing all kinds of new deals and we find ourselves on the outside looking in! This was avoidable, that is the sad thing! We deal with many countries we don't have to like(or some of us don't) all the presidents we have business (communist china being one of them)with, we only have to have a cordial relationship, especially when we get 17% of our Oil from one of them!

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