Sorry for the gringos who don't want Colombia to become a tourist attraction

la campiña says on Nov 2, 2007, 21:02:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dont come to this country its ridled with death and violence, Escobar still lives and will gun you down at passport control , leave us alone, its hell here , find a place in Montana or further north, Gabby exagerated its not that good , you have the american dream to search for, stay north, way north.

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eywed says on Nov 2, 2007, 21:04:

I finally agree with one of your post La campina!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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la campiña says on Nov 2, 2007, 21:24:

por fin , but isnt it blindingly obvious, I live here in cali and prefer here to london, ok maybe some of my posts are a little "out there" but come on I am a student of doctor " HST" and the man frank Z, things may get a little dizzy now and then . Read between the lines, I hate stating the obvious because I take it for granted you are all switched ON.

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morphus says on Nov 2, 2007, 21:44:

I like meeting other tourists in Colombia.

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Simon says on Nov 2, 2007, 21:51:

"dont matter what the papers and media say medellin aint got no beach and thats what touristas want "


And does Las Vegas have a beach? How about Paris? But I get your point.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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Man Tequila says on Nov 2, 2007, 22:04:

I have been unable to persuade several of my friends to go to Colombia even when offering to pay some of their costs. I wish Colombia the best, but it is a long way from being a major tourist attraction. Given how much Colombia and Colombians have to offer, this is a tragedy for those who never experience it.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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morphus says on Nov 2, 2007, 22:06:

Hot chicks is all Medellin needs.

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john_stark says on Nov 2, 2007, 22:08:

I saw a gringo in Monteria once. Loser.

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la campiña says on Nov 2, 2007, 22:08:

CALI que bonitas

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la campiña says on Nov 2, 2007, 22:29:

WHY????????????????????

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Simon says on Nov 2, 2007, 23:29:

I get what you're saying..but I must disagree, I do want Colombia to be visited by people from all over so they can see how wonderful my country truly is!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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billyb says on Nov 2, 2007, 23:34:

Bazuco, you beat me to it, jaja.

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minina says on Nov 3, 2007, 00:06:

One of my aunts told me that when she was younger let's say 60's an 70's she used to see a LOT of gringos in Medellin mainly in the downtown area. These gringos would go to Bogota with nothing but tropical kind of clothing and of course they will freeze out, the misinformation in the travel guides, and preconceived notion of Colombia being a tropical country must have helped (that must have been a funny site ). Maybe we will start to see some of these again. Hehe

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la campiña says on Nov 3, 2007, 00:08:

choose your climate by altitude

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la campiña says on Nov 3, 2007, 00:09:

I run a house in cali for travelers so obviuosly I LIVE with travelers, mmpphhhhhhhhhhh

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bufalo says on Nov 3, 2007, 07:07:

"I finally agree with one of your post La campina!"

I've finally been able to finish one.....

Personally there's a part of me that likes the bad image. I go to other countries because I want to see/get to know the locals, not hang out with other gringos. Even here in the 80's and early 90's with all the problems, I had a great time. Must admit it sucked for a lot of others, just my viewpoint.

Funny how the locals always say they want tourism for money, then bitch about the tourists years later when they can't afford housing anymore because the prices skyrocket.

I lived in Leticia where most are supposedly "poor", happiest people I met. They have homes, food and good times when not working yet there's always some fresh-faced gringo talking about "economic development". Toss his ass in the river.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Lowell says on Nov 3, 2007, 08:01:

I used to be lonely for Gringo's. Not anymore though. For a reminder of how good I have it here without a single Gringo aquaintance in my town, I daily visit several places on the computer a read the absolute crud that's posted. That alone is enough medicine. Actually, I don't think I ever fit in to the "USA way of Life". Always felt like I was sort of an outcast. Not here.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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john_stark says on Nov 3, 2007, 08:04:

Actually I felt sorry for the guy. There was no reason for him to have to go to Monteria for a chick. He was young and fairly good looking - I am sure he could have gotten chicks back home. But there he was in the Monteria airport with his girlfriend or wife and her family. I thought to myself, you poor bastard.

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poco says on Nov 3, 2007, 08:18:

Quote: I lived in Leticia where most are supposedly "poor", happiest people I met. They have homes, food and good times when not working yet there's always some fresh-faced gringo talking about "economic development". Toss his ass in the river.

Kind of my opinion, except I'm in the mountains.

I remember seeing platanos tag line about saving Betancourt,, what?? 5 years ago. The more I read about her the madder I got. What's a lunatic from France doing in Colombia organizing a socialist political movement? In my opinion she almost single handedly set back Colombias chance for prosperity 10 years and is responsible for untold suffering and death.

Gezzz, leave the POOR people alone.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Sebastian says on Nov 3, 2007, 13:15:

Actually, I found the beach here in Medellin. It is a five minute walk from my house and I am trying to keep it a secret. Anyway it really nice there but sometimes you have to pay to get it. See you at the beach.

Sebas

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Lcacique says on Nov 3, 2007, 16:20:

poco:
"I remember seeing platanos tag line about saving Betancourt,, what?? 5 years ago. The more I read about her the madder I got. What's a lunatic from France doing in Colombia organizing a socialist political movement? In my opinion she almost single handedly set back Colombias chance for prosperity 10 years and is responsible for untold suffering and death."

Again with the BS my friend. I thought you were the one that sniffed this crap out, but here you are spilling it out yourself. You do not become french by marrying someone from France. Her parents are both from Colombia (she was born in Colombia) and like her mother she was struggling to help poor people. Such facts are easily obtainable, but it is convenient to call her french isn't it? Everyone that thinks differently than you must be wrong, and why not classify them as an "outsider," as someone that is not interested in helping Colombia. I do not agree with everything she did, but come on poco, painting her as a foreigner because her father worked as an ambassador in France is ridiculous.

"leave the POOR people alone," yes, you would like that poco. Why should anyone ever try to help the poor people. We should all fall in line with the Social Darwinists and just accept that they deserve to be poor. With your comments on the other post about how wonderful the paramilitaries are, I'm beginning to understand you.

so, bufalo, you would argue that most people in Colombia are content with their economic standing? And because a poor person is happy that means that they are satisfied with their economic situation? It's mainly fresh-faced gringos that talk about "economic development" in Colombia? That is interesting.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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bufalo says on Nov 3, 2007, 17:22:

never said any of that. When I lived in Leticia there were the usual gringos that showed up and said "Hey, this is paradise! How can we improve it?" or something along those lines. (actually they said this in most places I have lived)

"a poor person is happy that means that they are satisfied with their economic situation?" This would depend upon your opinion of poor. The locals I met there, asin descendants of the indigenous not people from the interior that were there to open a business, seem to be very happy and defenitely fit in the worldly view of "poor" economic-wise. Plenty of religious yahoos show up and try to "save" these people. One of the things they do is to inform the locals that they are poor, that they need different housing and such - complete BS.
Those same dopes call it a paradise.

The other thing (aside from many others) is that the US and other countries are obsessed with economic developement like it is the answer to everything (actually they use it as an excuse for Fing up the place). Perhaps other countries feel an urge to keep up. Can't finish this post, my sis-in-law is waiting to chat with a cyber-guy in Alaska.

Betancur? she was looking for political gain - guess it didn't work...

...but then again, imagine the power she would have when she gets out, alive that is.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Lcacique says on Nov 3, 2007, 17:36:

I agree with you bufalo about "economic development." However, it depends on how you choose to define it, right? Sure, I think that there are many forms of "development" that are quite negative. I'm not arguing that they should let some environmentally destructive business come in and destroy everything that makes the region so beautiful. That does not fit my definition of development. I think you agree.

I dislike the whole religious aspect of "saving" the souls of these people; however, I do not think there is anything wrong with trying to improve their living condions if necessary (i.e. sanitary conditions, if need be). But I must admit, I do not know the situation as well as you do.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Nov 3, 2007, 17:54:

"When I lived in Leticia there were the usual gringos that showed up and said "Hey, this is paradise! How can we improve it?" or something along those lines. (actually they said this in most places I have lived)"

This mentality bugs me as well, bufalo. I do not like the idea of gringos going into other countries and creating their own little gringo "oasis."

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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bufalo says on Nov 3, 2007, 18:17:

and improvement for us or for the way we live isn't always an improvement for them.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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bufalo says on Nov 3, 2007, 18:18:

"Edith, you wouldn't know a frenchie from a hynie" (cute word for ass, don't know how to spell it) - Caroll O'Connor as Archie Bunker.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Lcacique says on Nov 3, 2007, 18:52:

"and improvement for us or for the way we live isn't always an improvement for them"

I would agree with that point as well, bufalo. I certainly worry about how the US government defines "improvement," and for that matter, many US corporations.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 4, 2007, 05:50:

Colombia is light years from real international tourism.....for reasons too numerous to list.........period

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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David Pristupa says on Nov 4, 2007, 07:02:

International Tourism makes me take an interest in the grittier rougher less polished parts of the world

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 4, 2007, 07:50:

ditto on that David

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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bufalo says on Nov 4, 2007, 10:36:

The locals being pushed out of where they used to live for years in Cartagena so fat gringos can have a nice view are probably not so thrilled with economic developement.

As some of the native american tribes, no better yet, raise the ones from the dead from years ago. Show the the US. When they have that "what the F&%$?" look on their face tell them "It's O.K. all just economic developement"

Doubt they'd see it that way.

I actually agree with Colombia being very far away from major tourism - but it's a bit too close for comfiness right now in certain parts.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Leeroy says on Nov 4, 2007, 11:01:

There's something deliciously ironic about gringos living in Colombia saying "We don't want any gringos to come and live in Colombia".

I use "gringo" in the widest possible sense, to refer to "(usually white) foreigners".

What, exactly, is wrong with Colombia having more foreign tourists?

Even countries with high rates of foreign tourism (Italy, Spain, Egypt, the UK, etc...) you do not see the entire land literally overtaken with foreigners, souvenir shops and the like... The pattern is pretty much the same everywhere - tourism is "ghetto-ised" so that large quantities of foreigners are concentrated in a few places, leaving the rest of the country pretty much untouched. Lest we forget that foriegn tourism is a major source of income for developing countries.

I suspect that most of the objections to increased foreign tourism in Colombia come less from pragmatic and reasoned arguments related to socio-economics, and more to do with a "I'm one of the few foreigners here and I feel special and if more foreigners come here I won't be special any more" type of mindset. Please...

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Lowell says on Nov 4, 2007, 11:27:

Foreign tourists fine. Lots of foreign residents not always good. Example: I lived for a while in the highlands of Panama (Boquete). Many of the locals have and are selling their properties to foreign investors. To them they think they've won the lottery and the prices they receive are way greater than they ever expected for their property to be worth. But, stiil a very good bargain for the foreign investors.

These pople don't know what to do with the money and very often don't re-invest. All too often shortly, whitin a year or so the money is gone and they have to live with other family.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Leeroy says on Nov 4, 2007, 11:34:

Okay Lowell - so is that the fault of the foreign buyers?

Furthermore, as any foreigner here will testify, getting residency is no piece of cake. Plus, seriously, how many foreigners are about to move to Colombia for good?

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Lcacique says on Nov 4, 2007, 11:53:

Leeroy:

I agree that tourism can be good, but it also has its consequences. Look at all of the locals getting pushed off of their lands in the Yucatan Peninsula so that a Mayan Riviera can be built to attract gringos. Sure it brings some money to people but it also has an effect on their lifestyle/and culture. Not to mention, it can have a devastating impact on a fragile environment which is the major selling point of tourism to the area. Shit on the environment, and you can kiss that type of tourism good-bye. It depends on who is doing the development and how it is done, even then it is a difficult.

In addition, the last thing that I want to see at La Ciudad Perdida is a pair of Golden Arches or a Starbucks down in the Salt Cathedral at Zipaquirá. I realize this is unlikely, but it is happening increasingly in many countries at historical/cultural sites. I find it bizarre that some tourists enjoy traveling to other countries only to hang out in resorts, in little gringo-ized bubbles never experiencing anything from the culture that surrounds them.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Lcacique says on Nov 4, 2007, 11:53:

Leeroy:

I agree that tourism can be good, but it also has its consequences. Look at all of the locals getting pushed off of their lands in the Yucatan Peninsula so that a Mayan Riviera can be built to attract gringos. Sure it brings some money to people but it also has an effect on their lifestyle/and culture. Not to mention, it can have a devastating impact on a fragile environment which is the major selling point of tourism to the area. Shit on the environment, and you can kiss that type of tourism good-bye. It depends on who is doing the development and how it is done, even then it is a difficult.

In addition, the last thing that I want to see at La Ciudad Perdida is a pair of Golden Arches or a Starbucks down in the Salt Cathedral at Zipaquirá. I realize this is unlikely, but it is happening increasingly in many countries at historical/cultural sites. I find it bizarre that some tourists enjoy traveling to other countries only to hang out in resorts, in little gringo-ized bubbles never experiencing anything from the culture that surrounds them.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2007, 12:11:

I agree with Leeroy,

"In addition, the last thing that I want to see at La Ciudad Perdida is a pair of Golden Arches or a Starbucks down in the Salt Cathedral at Zipaquirá. I realize this is unlikely, but it is happening increasingly in many countries at historical/cultural sites. I find it bizarre that some tourists enjoy traveling to other countries only to hang out in resorts, in little gringo-ized bubbles never experiencing anything from the culture that surrounds them."

I do not see that happening in Japan, Italy, Germany and other well known touristic attractions.
In Colombia however is possible that the local culture or tourist sites will become in the future annihilated by foreign influences and greatly spearheaded by voltiarepas.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Lowell says on Nov 4, 2007, 12:46:

Leeroy, At what point (impossible dream) does and investor inherit the negative consequences of their involvement in their new host country? Taking advantage of ignorant and possibly undeducated people is good?

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Lcacique says on Nov 4, 2007, 13:01:

Monpirri,

I can not honestly tell you how often it has happened, but one example can be found in China were protestors shut down a Starbucks that was located in the Forbidden City. I don't necessarily have a problem with companies like this locating abroad, but it is rather disgusting when they weasle into cultural sites like the Forbidden City. For me, I was disappointed to see a Mcdonalds while in Colombia, but it made me happy that nobody was eating there.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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dwmte7 says on Nov 4, 2007, 13:02:

don leroy....so that we discourse on a level playing field, you can no more compare colombia with italy, than you can compare manhatten with ethiopia. not a valid equation.

colombia has industrial development in only about 5 or 6 cities. no more. italy, maybe 100,000 or -... and as i asked in another thread, is tourist $$$$ development an aid to a country with a geography, population and culture like colombia. when tourist expenditures are evaluated, they in whole, fall into the hands of a few shrewd merchants who design their activities to maximize their reception of those very expenditures, and to capitalize on the newly developing sub-market. this by no means guarantees that the wages go up proportunately as does the income of the merchant. ojolla!!! employees, as they have always been in colombia, are used, until they are used-up. then cast off. this appearance of 'gold in them thar hills' is absolute and pure illusion, nothing more. it's another las vegas which is not "BOOM", but "DOOM" it lives off the blood sweat and spirit of those drawn into it's 'glittery on the surface' attraction which is no more than a pretty mask over something far more diabolic.

wealth and wealth enjoyment in colombia is now and always has been a birth right. a right which allows one to look down upon, use and abuse others...as if it were a priviledge held for the rich. sorry, i know colombia and colombians far to well to be deceived by this anti faz.

the status quo in colombia and other 3rd-4th world countries is gonna give way to equality when my asshole sings the 'star spangled banner' and chickens grow teeth. don't look for change...change that aids and up levels all, any time soon. even galbriath and harrington cant put a glossy spin on this.

dwmte

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Monpirri says on Nov 4, 2007, 13:06:

Lcacique,
I hear ya!

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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pedro says on Nov 4, 2007, 13:25:

Who exactly is being "pushed out" in these places?

What I see is a voluntary decision to sell. In La Boquilla, Cartagena, nobody is having their property compulsorily acquired.

So what should we do when the buyer is content to buy and the seller is content to sell? Some paternalistic nanny state should step in and say "no, you guys are happy in your present state, so the sale won't be permitted"?

que nota!

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tomtom33 says on Nov 4, 2007, 15:21:

Damn, I was just in Poco Rojo yesterday. I didn't see anyone being pushed out. But there were a few people there who had work building the new high rises in Laguito, Castillo Grande and Bocagrande. Fucking Gringos.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:23:

Most of the buyers in Laguito, Castillo and Bocagrande are by far Colombians followed by Europeans....the few Gringos are bailing out asap.......too expensive and locals with a real attitude problem....the place is a toilet....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:36:

I just read a lil of what everyone is writing and .....

.... while I too would love to see the preservation of a culture in it's pure form....
...........I'm realist enough to know that this idea of 'cultural preservation' in it's purest form is at best, another nostalgic hope for the good ol days of the past...and that it simply won't last, mixed with the eternal order of immigration or rather, MIGRATION, if you will. Forevermore, people will move on, move over, and move in,... from another country or culture, and they will BEND AND BLEND..... and a new order will be formed.

Come on, people. I know you all know GLOBALIZATION is reality.
LET THE WATER FIND IT'S LOWEST POINT OF GRAVITY ;)
It's going to happen.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:38:

....and some will prosper and some will burn.
.......the theme is as old as the hills.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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Lcacique says on Nov 4, 2007, 22:31:

goin-south, I don't mind bending and blending, I just don't care for ripping and tearing if you know what I mean. I should also note that, in general, I like the idea of increased tourism to Colombia.

On the flip side of things, I have to admit that I love when foreign restaurants and shops open up in my neck of the woods. I enjoy the diversity and the opportunity to have a little of somebody else's culture in my backyard. However, these types of businesses are generally family owned and not some chain. But as you say, it is inevitable.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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morphus says on Nov 5, 2007, 05:26:

I'm all for globalization. Chain stores are better than those grubby family owned stores. You get better product, better prices and better return policies. I loved it when the Home Depot came to my area. They put everyone out business.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 5, 2007, 05:42:

Wal-Mart and Home Depot should all be destroyed.....they are the responsible for the demise of small town America.....what a boring country we have become.....all the malls have the same stores, same layout......sucks......they are a curse

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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morphus says on Nov 5, 2007, 05:49:

Oh yes, Walmart is great too. I shop there a lot too...a gallon of spring water only 50 cents. $1.50 at the mom and pop stores in my area.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 5, 2007, 05:51:

Typical Gringo.......oh well....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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dwmte7 says on Nov 5, 2007, 06:33:

the walton family--so i hear--are tea tottlers...against alcohol, tobacco, etc. however, it just came to my attention that they just opened a liquor store...haven't seen it.

yes, they're against alcohol and it's consumption; however, they're far more convicted to making money. ergo............

dwmte

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britabroad says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:42:

I've heard that they plan to build a Disneyworld near Buga in Valle del Cauca?????

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

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morphus says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:46:

A better idea: a theme park where you actually get kidnapped by guerillas. They give you a running chance and you try to get away. They shoot at you with paintball guns.

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kalder says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:54:

The theme park I liked as a schoolboy was the one in the film 'Westworld'. And not for the gunslinging either.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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manINred says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:59:

Nope, Colombia is sitll far away from being a tourist hotspot.

I was listening to someone today talk about Colombia and of course they chose the country to give an example of a drug running something or other.

The girl (who has never been there) then said with an air of (undeserved definitely) authorirty that every day politicians and people in Colombia are assassinated and it's normal there and happens 'all the time'.

It is still viewed and painted as a shit-hole drug-running third world chaotic mess, unfortunately. Just look at the grimaces and looks of bemusement you receive from people when you explain that you have been in the country for a considerable amount of time.

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Lcacique says on Nov 5, 2007, 13:11:

First off morphus, Wal-mart may have cheaper water, but you're not saving anything. I live in Oregon: my water is free. As for them having higher quality products, I'd have to disagree big time on that one. And their prices are generally better on a few things but relatively the same on many others.

Anyway, I was talking about stores that sell imported handicrafts, you don't find those items at Walmart or Target, etc. And the Colombian restaurant in my neighborhood is cheaper than chains like Mcdonalds and the food is better!

Chele, I agree 100%. Towns in the US are turning into replicas of each other w/ empty strip malls being replaced by new strip malls. It's ugly and boring. My hometown was devastated. Now there is an abundance of junk for slightly cheaper prices, yippee!!! What a freakin' joke!

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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kalder says on Nov 5, 2007, 13:13:

"Towns in the US are turning into replicas of each other w/ empty strip malls being replaced by new strip malls. It's ugly and boring. My hometown was devastated. Now there is an abundance of junk for slightly cheaper prices, yippee!!! What a freakin' joke!"

Same in the UK.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Lowell says on Nov 5, 2007, 14:06:

A park is being built in Buga.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 5, 2007, 14:07:

Well it all somehow fits the profile of your average American today.....they all want the same thing, easy, fast, me me me me. There are really no political protest to speak of...wars are fought, trillions spent and NOT A WORD!! What a nation of absolute wimps...wussies. In the America of today you have the freedom to do what you are told......God how I miss the 60's generation, now they had some balls!!! Now only the Gringas have balls and tell the eunuch Gringos how high to jump....sad

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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poco says on Nov 5, 2007, 14:58:

Quote: Again with the BS my friend. I thought you were the one that sniffed this crap out, but here you are spilling it out yourself.

First of all I didn’t say she was FRENCH. Please, a modicum of comprehension would go a long way.

Bentencourt was born in Colombia but raised and schooled in France. After a 30 year absence she returned in the early 90’s and very shortly entered politics and later formed the Socialist Green Party Oxygeno Verde. She was kidnapped in 2003 when she IGNORED REPEATED warnings NOT TO TRAVEL INTO THE FARC held territory. Is that crazy or what?

The greens didn't do much in Colombia and lost out in France during the last presidential election. Maybe the FRENCH will burn fewer cars when they riot? I digress.

Gaining political power for the FARC, it seems, was a part of her political agenda.

Trusting the FARC, didn’t work. She was kidnapped by her political ALLIES, the FARC,, while IGNORING that the AREA was DANGEROUS. Was she thinking my buddies surely won’t hurt me?

I believe she wanted to congratulate her parties ONLY election success, the Mayor of San Vicente. San Vicente was the ""FARC Capital"" of the demilitarized zone (FARC safe haven). A zone the size of Swit… oops Twice the size of El Salvador.

Who tried to TRADE arms for her release? The French of course.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/03/1059849276062.html

Excerpt:
Despite vigorous official denials (France), the suspicion remains that a deal had been on the table with Farc to exchange Ms Betancourt for arms or millions of dollars.

France trading weapons ?? to the FARC?? Now that’s a STUPID (crazy / lunatic?) idea. Then again, maybe they had some extra arms for terrorists lying around? France, Germany, Italy, Sweden and Britain are among the top 10 largest arms suppliers.
http://mondediplo.com/2006/06/11armscontrol

So, once more, what was a lunatic from France doing in Colombia organizing a socialist party?

I look forward to your continued posting but suggest working on the reading deficit.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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bufalo says on Nov 5, 2007, 15:09:

She knew it was going to happen, didn't she even announce on TV exactly where she would be marching? Sometimes I think maybe she did it figuring they'd let her go shortly and then her popularity would skyrocket and hence get elected or more political power or whatever.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 5, 2007, 15:16:

Hey I heard she got married to a FARC and has 2 kids........hehehehehehehe

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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goin_south says on Nov 5, 2007, 16:05:

"""....Who tried to TRADE arms for her release? The French of course...."""

maybe they were offering... the wrong arms. Yeah, I mean't ... the right ones.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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goin_south says on Nov 5, 2007, 16:08:

I never heard 'the story' of her kidnapping, jus like this before.
I think it's a lil different than that one, as told by Platano.

I kinda think she sounds like 'the lunatic' in the story, if it happened as poco wrote, above.

I'D RATHER BE.........IN COLOMBIA :-))

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Lcacique says on Nov 5, 2007, 18:23:

poco, She was Colombian. I don't really care if she lived in France and was schooled there. Her parents were Colombians and she identified herself as Colombian. It is ridiculous to say that she was from France. But please continue to spin...

As for your claim that she considered the FARC her allie, I'll refer you to page 222 of the first edition of her book:

"I want to see Colombia free of war, with its DEMOCRACY reclaimed, its peace assured.

This is why we need to decide what kind of peace we are going to seek. Do we want a fake peace imposed by the use of terror? This is what the paramilitaries are offering us. Do we want a peace that results from the DEFEAT of DEMOCRACY and the installation of a communist regime? This is what the guerrillas are fighting for. Do we want a peace agreement negotiated by a corrupt regime that uses a false promise of peace as a tool to maintain the status quo that allows the select few to share priveleges? This is what our establishment is trying to preserve.
None of these possibilities will free us from the drug traffic emporium and the violence that accompanies it.
The peace that we, the COLOMBIAN people, want is a different one altogether. It is rooted in the RULES of DEMOCRACY."

On the next page she states, "...if we want to prosper, we need DEMOCRACY."

on page 225: "A STRONG LEGITIMATE DEMOCRACY will induce the emergence of a new Colombia. A war against the economic and political power of drugs will cut off the paramilitaries and the GUERILLAS from their financial source. At the same time, a TRUE, DEMOCRATICALLY elected government guarantees a political structure that will address and ensurepeople's desire for social justice. A combination of these factors can pave the way for a truce with the guerrillas and the paramilitaries.
There is no quick fix, but I am convinced that reclaiming our DEMOCRACY is the very first step toward peace, and the sole condition for a true alliance against drugs and against terrorism between the people of all nations."

It doesn't seem like she thinks of the FARC as allies as you suggest.

Of course the paras have achieved a lot of political power, but I'm sure you see no problem with that since you described them as saintly on another post.

By the way, I'm not debating whether or not she was insane to go out into the FARC controlled region to negotiate.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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poco says on Nov 5, 2007, 19:08:

Quote: It doesn't seem like she thinks of the FARC as allies as you suggest.

Ah, ha,,, you are getting better. I have no problem with your post, rings true to me.

HOWEVER,, Socialism, especially in a weak country, is NOT GOOD in my opinion. The statement was made in another forum as paraphrased below:

THE QUESTION IS NOT WHETHER TO DISARM THE FARC,,, THE QUESTION IS HOW.

I can see you have your way and I have mine but gosh,,,, my way was working,, for the first time in 50 years something was working after 50 years of misery.


Shouldn't be posting this stuff on the Friendly Zone, I'll make a snide remark if I see myself continuing.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 7, 2007, 15:36:

A war against the economic and political power of drugs will cut off the paramilitaries and the GUERILLAS from their financial source. At the same time, a TRUE, DEMOCRATICALLY elected government guarantees a political structure that will address and ensure people's desire for social justice. A combination of these factors can pave the way for a truce with the guerrillas and the paramilitaries.

That all sounds nice....... how do you fight a war in Colombia to stop the demand of coke around the world? It will never happen in this century for sure and maybe never.....most of the coke sold world wide is to people that are the middle class poor and the wealthy yuppies!!! And the world is creating more poor people at record levels.......this is a multi-billion dollar business and no war of any kind can or will stop it......get real....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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tomtom33 says on Nov 8, 2007, 02:03:

"First off morphus, Wal-mart may have cheaper water, but you're not saving anything." What a brilliant statement. How do you suppose that Wal Mart has succeeded? Sounds like you fit in with the northwest granolas very well. A branch of my family "emigrated" to the Seattle-Bremerton area in the mid 50s. They haven't been "right" since.

Thank God for the big-box. And no Elmo, I'm not talking chucha here.

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morphus says on Nov 8, 2007, 04:39:

"First off morphus, Wal-mart may have cheaper water, but you're not saving anything. I live in Oregon: my water is free"

I drink distilled water. Walmart sells it for the lowest price so I am definiately saving money. If you are drinking free water in Oregon it must be either spring water or ground water loaded a lot of sediment. Its not that good for you.

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billyb says on Nov 8, 2007, 05:53:

Make sure you check the label on that bottled water next time. A lot of them say "from municipal water sources", which means filtered tap water and you pay more than gas for it.

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morphus says on Nov 8, 2007, 06:13:

Distilled water is steamed. It does'nt matter if it comes from the sewer.

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billyb says on Nov 8, 2007, 06:29:

I'm not really refering to the quality, just the fact that people are paying premuim prices for glorified tap water.

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kalder says on Nov 8, 2007, 07:50:

The 'Penn and Teller' episode on bottled water was interesting.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Saltador says on Nov 8, 2007, 08:19:

chelesupercono,
You state:
"There are really no political protest to speak of...wars are fought, trillions spent and NOT A WORD!! "
Don't you think you're exaggerating just a tad? You really haven't heard anyone in the US bitchin about the war?
I find that hard to believe. I hear people complaining about it everyday.

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eywed says on Nov 8, 2007, 09:35:

Guys! Guys! Guys! you all are arguing about bottled water for pete sake. Now huddle in here and on 3 break and go find some chucha or something. Gezzzzz!

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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morphus says on Nov 8, 2007, 09:42:

Can't screw 24/7! I've tried.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 8, 2007, 10:35:

saltador,
you state; I find that hard to believe. I hear people complaining about it everyday

Well, you made your point: complaining! What a bunch of wimps! That never stopped a war, but I can tell what did....riots, taking over universities by the students, 4 dead in Ohio, protests by hundreds of thousands, riots in Chicago...burning draft cards.....music and much much more.......this pussy ass generation of Americans are asleep at the wheel....or maybe in front of their flatscreens and of course only thinking about me me me me me.....

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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morphus says on Nov 8, 2007, 10:54:

Riots? I like riots. Its not easy starting one these days.

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Saltador says on Nov 8, 2007, 12:44:

Chelesupercono,
We don't care enough to overthrow the government and have mayhem in the streets. And some people support it.
Just saying you were/are exaggerating.
And generalizing big time. But that is what PBH is for, I've come to realize that. Just lump 300,000,000 people together as one big identical unit without any differences. Makes sense.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 8, 2007, 14:04:

Dude you got that perfect......solo palabras....no obras!!!

Peace...

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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Lcacique says on Nov 8, 2007, 21:11:

tomtom: thank you! If you would have included the next statement it would have made a little more sense. Let me break it down for you: Water is free. Maybe you weren't aware of that either. So, any money you spend on it is more than necessary. Therefore, buying cheap water at Wal-mart is not saving you any money. Amazing, huh? The tap water here is some of the best, why buy water? And the big box is nice if you like junk.

As for the NW comments, it's gorgeous here and we're happy to keep it all for ourselves!

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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tomtom33 says on Nov 9, 2007, 03:56:

Water is free? You don't have water bills in the great northwest, either? How do you pay for your municipal water treatment, transit, and repair?

It is gorgeous there. But you can have that Seattle traffic.

Last I heard, distilled water is not naturally occurring. Who would drink distilled water? Geez Morph, the minerals give it taste.

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morphus says on Nov 9, 2007, 04:19:

The minerals in spring water are inorganic. You don't want all that sediment going through your system. It can clog the arteries and cause kidney stones. Distilled water is the safest to drink.

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Chelesupercono says on Nov 9, 2007, 05:13:

WATER.....? wow this post went in the toilet fast....gezzzzzzz

never go to bed with someone crazier then you are, you will do it and you will regret it.......

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morphus says on Nov 9, 2007, 05:19:

I drink 2 gallons of water a day.

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john_stark says on Nov 9, 2007, 05:45:

I sometimes drink out the troughs in the pasture with the cows and horses. That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger!

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vicshere says on Nov 9, 2007, 05:52:

or at least gives your diarrhea

listo

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tomtom33 says on Nov 9, 2007, 12:17:

If you want safest, you must do without sex except when alone. I prefer to take a chance now and then.

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robi666 says on Nov 9, 2007, 12:23:

Yes Tom, but sex with diarrhea is disgusting...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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lpdiver says on Nov 9, 2007, 23:45:

Drinking distilled water exclusively will leach all the minerals from your bone and other weird things. Water the universal solvent. When I worked in Aruba; where the water is desalinized seawater, we could tell when the latest load of gringos had been there for ninety days.

Thats about how long it took for the desalinized water to dissolve their kidney stones to a size small enough to pass...

t

"cook some rice!"

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vicshere says on Nov 10, 2007, 03:51:

rob... having A. sex with diarrhea is far worst

listo

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