some thoughts on my last trip to Cartagena

Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:00:

"Chino" The term "chino" isn't really specific to the Chinese in Colombia. They mean it like "Asian". That said, I can understand your frustration with the "They all look the same to me" attitude you encountered. If you really enjoy Colombia I advise you to just chalk it up to a provincial quirk and get over it. I really doubt it's racist or bigoted. Think of how in the California every Colombiano is assumed to be Mexican or in NYC they're assumed to be Puerto Rican.

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ColombianoX says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:08:

"They think that everyone that looks of Asian decent are "chinos" and a few times I was called "japonese." No offense intended but I'm very proud of my Korean decent and didn't really care to be called "chino."

Leonardo,

This doesn't only happen in Colombia, it happens in many places. In Peru , ex-president Alberto Fujimori was always called "el chino" by the the peruvian people, even though he's of japenese descent. They don't do it to be racist, Colombians (and most latinos in general) are very descriptive when they speak; when they see a skinny person, they refer to them as 'flaco' (skinny), when they see a blonde person, they call them 'mono' (blonde), and so on.

"Some even couldn't figure out that I actually lived in the USA as a citizen. A few ladies gave me a puzzled look when I told them I was from the USA."

That's because people in Colombia have this ignorant image that all people from the USA are tall, blonde and blue-eyed anglos. It is pretty annoying and it's happened to me also. Some would get really confused when I told them that although I'm from the US, I'm also colombian. Hopefully with the fast-growing latino and minority populations, this image will change.

"Is racism prevalet in Colombia or am I just too uptight and just need to look elsewhere? "

Oh no, racism is not the salient issue that it is in the US. Like I said, the people are very descriptive when they speak, I don't think anyone was purposely mistreating you because of your ethnicity. Colombians are very hospitable with foreigners.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Iain says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:09:

European And every white European is assumed to be American, and we are quite different in culture etc from Americans.

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Crazy4Cali says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:09:

Lighten up... Yes. I think you're too uptight on this.

I don't want to deny you any pride in your ethnic heritage, but you might try to put things in perspective before you pass judgement.

Sure you can decide to go to Colombia or not. In fact as an American (estadounidense, that is), you can decide to go to almost anywhere in the world with only the inconvenience of purchasing a ticket to the destination. As a US citizen, you have practically unrestricted physical and virtual access to the entire planet.

Now, read some of the other threads on how difficult it is for the average (if not above average) Colombian citizen to even get a substantive interview at the U.S. Embassy, let alone, actually be granted a visa to visit the U.S. Consequently, the average Colombian is going to have a slightly different, and most probably incomplete and inaccurate, view of the world than you do.

I wouldn't be too quick to call your experiences the result of racism, rather, my guess is, the are more the result of ignorance than malice. If these experiences bother you, then stay home, but to me, this sounds like going to the beach and complaining that has too much water and sand.

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nanis says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:21:

i am sorry to say this but i too can't tell a black from africa and a black from the caribbean unless they start to talk and that's when i start to figure out i am not being racist far from that even tho i'm light skin i couldn't be more black if i want it to coming from a black family but black people look a like whether they are from africa, the caribbean or USA, that goes to the people from bangladesh and sri lanka too they get mistaken for indian people all the time and that goes for you as well!! i work as a hotel manager in London and in the hotel i work for we get a lot of east asians and let me tell you something i wouldn't know the difference between a korean or a chinese not even if i hear them talking because as you might have guessed not everyone talks cantonese or whichever language it is that you speak, i am not being disrespectful and please do not call us ignorants for not figuring out where you come from it's not like we are bloody mind readers!! i too get mistaken i live in london and a lot of people either think i'm from puerto rico or from venezuela or whatever all latinos look alike don't we?? and that's not reason for me to get angry or even think about not coming to london because "they can't figure out where i came from"!! please give me a break!

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Lionheart says on Jan 6, 2005, 13:27:

in USA its the same I had a Colombian girlfriend living in the northeast, I had to move to Texas for a good job. She visited me and left totally pissed off after a week ... every gringo and every latino there addressed her as a Mexican ... to her the worst insult possible, I think.

My first wife is German, blond and blue-eyed, she got pissed off after we moved to the USA for always being asked if she is Swedish. Trust me, Bavarian cuss words are not pretty and I am glad that most German speakers don't understand Bavarian. Yes, she could carry 12 Maß or more ... the 1 liter mugs you see at the October Fest.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:04:

Christians in Colombia It took me a while to get that one too. By "Christian" Colombians mean other Christian churches and denominations. Thus, Catholic is not Christian and Chrsitian is not Catholic.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lionheart says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:13:

I had same issue I was asked many times if I am Catholic, I said no and started telling them what I am ... I got asked if I am Christian ... I said yes, that was a good enough answer. It seems Catholics are regarded different, but they can accept Christians, whatever that means. Maybe because I won't burst into flames if I need to go to church with them. I couldn't help having the image of being shoved into the Colosseum to fight with the lions, though.

But I am totally bewildered about this concept ... in Germany you are either Catholic or Protestant, and you hate each other ... which is why I chose to be neither (also to avoid church taxes, I admit).

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oldbongo says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:20:

go figure... i've only been to cartagena a million times
in 33 years and everyone is catholic,...and everyone
describes their friends, family, as "muy christian"
as in,.... they are really good christians.
and, in my humble experience, almost all are.

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Hunter says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:23:

Leonardo Just chill out.

I get called a gringo, but I am from Wales, if anybody asks, I tell them I am from England, if I can be bothered, even many educated people I talk to don't know that Wales is a Country.

On the flip side, I have spent about 5 years in Asia and it was no differant there.

Hunter

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:24:

I think that the non-Catholic christian assemblies in Colombia use the word "Christian" exclusively for themselves in order to emphatize the separation between them and the official Roman Catholic Church.
There seems to be plenty of evangelical proselytism going on in Colombia: in my in-law's neighborhood in the near south of Cali there's plenty of churchers and temples belonging to numerous sects and assemblies that I had nver even heard about.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:51:

It could have been worse, dude. They could have been calling you "gordo" or "calvo" or worse yet, "gringo". You should be grateful you got off with "chino".

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Neonovo says on Jan 6, 2005, 14:57:

CHINO! Relax, man. I was treated even worse...& I'm colombian... On my first trip to Cartagena ever, dollar traders hit me several times, offering subtantially higher rates. I arrived inCartagena Sat Nov 20 (Bushed showed up that Mon). My hotel (Santa Clara) had bike-loaners, so I was all over the historic centro, Bocagrande, and other areas.
One trader offerd 92k for my last $35 bucks, so I agreed and watched him count 4 new 20k bills and a bunch of smaller bills to complete the 12k. He counted slowly and meticulously. --Setting me up for the kill--
Later I go to buy a CD, pull out the peso stash, and guess what? The mutafuka kept the 4 20k bills thru sleigh of hand.
The whole transaction is so well reharsed. He remainds you to try and not let the cops see "us" because it ain't kosher. Then hands you the the pesos FIRST 'cuz he want you to know he "trusts" you, all the while his buddies are leaning against the wall under the tree shade a little further down supressing their laughter.
I didn't let this little setback dampen my vacation. Really loved the city, and its people. Even had a couple of young señoritas ride with me and my cousin on one of the love-carriages. I'll post pics later.

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oldbongo says on Jan 6, 2005, 15:09:

neonovo... that trick has been passed down from father to son,..
avenida venezuela,..calle de ladrones...
i got caught once en la calle de ladrones, and swore i
would play with them forever,now i always play along,
look like i'm ready to do business, and then agree to change
five dollars......jejeje .... my kid loved it.
welcome back ...

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kernow62 says on Jan 6, 2005, 15:41:

Hunter your from Wales but are you Welsh or English? I don't know many Welshmen who would say they are from England. :-)

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Hunter says on Jan 6, 2005, 15:49:

kernow62 After travelling since I was one month old, I don't really count myself from anywhere.

When I first started travelling independantly when I was 19, I used to tell people I am from Wales, but you get a lot of blank looks, then have to explain it is the Country next to England etc.

Way to much hassle, most people here ask if I am a gringo, I just say, si, sometimes I tell them I am English, just makes life easier.

I suspect in Leonardos case, at least most Colombians know a Country called Korea, but Wales, no hope.

Hunter

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caslug says on Jan 6, 2005, 16:53:

Leo, i'm asian-american myself, but not chinese. When i was in Cali/CTG people, vendors, businesses would ask if i was chino. I tell them i'm gringo, then they new i was from the US. Many COL think all asians are chino. Interesting in BOG, no one asked if i was chino, instead it was japones or correa, worst they thought i was a businessman from those countries. What's bad about that is, japanese/korean businessman working for multi-national have a reputation of "willing" pay higher price. Even more than gringos. So right away in situation dealing w/ money transaction i always say i'm gringo NOT japonese businessman. LOL.

Other than that i don't really take offense, because it's more cultural/geographic ignorances than maliciousness.

In COL i always bump into a few asians either colombian or tourist/workers like me. I always see a few chinese-colombians in the casinos even in Cali. In CTG i saw a whole tour group 30-40 chinese/mainland men/women in Atlantis Casino. I also met an older korean-american from LA who comes to CTG for fun 3/4 times a year. And he pumped into a korean working/living in Colombia.

Vendors tend to "hope" asian they see are japanese or korean so they can get easy sale or pump the price up.

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cremaster says on Jan 6, 2005, 17:07:

You wanna talk ignorant??? Try going to Korea. There, people would assume Leonardo could speak Korean, because of his heritage. Koreans also call anyone white ¨Miguk-saram¨ which means American person. Also, any white is repeatedly called ´dwaigi´ (pig) and ´pabo´ (stupid) by a large percentage of the population.
Also, Korean men get fighting mad at the mere thought of a whitey ¨stealing¨ one of their women.

I´ll take Colombia any day.
Patrick

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isaactraveler says on Jan 6, 2005, 17:15:

wales is a MAMMAL, dummy!! hahaha

hey leonardo, my chinito friend.....

I spent most of my life running away from being called "gordo". Only to then meet a woman that calls me that as a nickname. after repeatedly being assured that gordo, is a term of endearment and it has nothing to do with weight, I accept this nom-de-plume.

however every time I refer to one of her cousins as "La Prima Gorda" I hear " NO ES GORDA!" WTF is up with that?

anyway, leo, if we could all be known as gringos, mexicans and chinos, think how much less fighting there would be in the world. exept among the gringos, chinos and mexicans.

btw, colombianos as a whole do not discriminate against black people which is pretty prevelant in the U.S. and other countries. And they get called negritos, which isnt an insult either.

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goosekirk says on Jan 6, 2005, 18:23:

Maybe a little uptight My girlfriend is half-Japanese, and she uses the word "chino." They do use it like "Asian." And how are people supposed to know, anyway? My girlfriend can tell a Korean from a Japanese from a Chinese person with just a glance, but I can't. Sorry. I grew up in an area where there weren't any Asian-Americans... just like most people in Latin America, I reckon. I can't tell a Mexican from a Colombian from a Brazilian, neither, or a German from a Dane from a Russian, and I really couldn't care less.

I'm American, but for some reason lots of Colombians assume I'm French. Dunno why. Maybe I dress well or something. I've never once found it offensive, and can't imagine why I would.

Come to think of it, I've never understood the whole "proud to be... whatever" mentality. This isn't directed at Leonardo, and I don't mean to be a dick about it, it's just my general attitude... if anyone wonders why some other person has so little respect for their ethnic heritage or whatever, well, here's my take on it. So your parents were Korean or Italian or American or Colombian or Hasidic Jamaican-Polish - yay for you, you lucky, lucky person. I'm not proud to be left-handed or tall or blond, so why would I be proud to be American or Lutheran or Aryan or whatever? Doesn't make any sense to me. I figure the sooner we all get over these arbitrary divisions we set for ourselves, the better off we'll all be. I guess. Anyone who still needs to go around being proud for having been born with all ten fingers obviously is fulfilling some need that I can't grok, and maybe that's healthy for 'em... but if you really need for me personally to salute your genetic or national purity, you're gonna go wanting, and I'll move on to someone with more interesting hangups.

Just my feeling about it. Listen to George Carlin or Doug Stanhope, they can explain it better...

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emilyh says on Jan 6, 2005, 20:56:

Nicknames Hey Leonardo,


I agree with all those here, don't take it as an insult. I was actually kind of chuffed like Goosekirk when I got mistaken for being French, Swedish and German even though I'm Aussie.

Just an interesting note though, my Colombian mother in law actually uses the expression 'Chino' as her pet name for her husband, who has no Asian background at all. I can't remember the exact reason why, but it was their little term for each other.

Em :)

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ColombianoX says on Jan 6, 2005, 21:56:

"Just an interesting note though, my Colombian mother in law actually uses the expression 'Chino' as her pet name for her husband, who has no Asian background at all. I can't remember the exact reason why, but it was their little term for each other."

emilyh,

Are they from Bogotá? The term "chino" also means "kid" in Bogota.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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elmodefoque says on Jan 7, 2005, 05:07:

Hey Issac, you freaking GORDO, my old lady also calls me gordo. She must mean gordo down there cause I aint that fat.
Leonardo, sometimes I’m called “chino” too, maybe because of my straight black (used to be black) hair, I was also called porcupine head, pelo de burra, and other things. To be honest I was never too happy to be called “chino” and it kind of pissed me off. I used to tell them “chino tu maldita madre hijueputa !! That usually took care of that.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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nanis says on Jan 7, 2005, 07:42:

Don't get offended by it, my husband calls me "mi chinita" because my father looks chinese with real dark skin he's an indio! so i too look chinese well at leat my eyes do anyways. We also use chino in our everyday language (slang) chino is not just someone born or with a chinese background to us chino also means friend, mate, pal, buddy etc. Other words we used are parce, pana, parcero, ñero and so on note that this is only used by gamines or gang members i should know!!… so please do not get offended it might be that you’ve misunderstood our language or that you went to some lower class neighbourhoods and hanged-out with some pareceros which I really doubt because if you did you wouldn’t have come out alive to tell the story my dear!

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john says on Jan 7, 2005, 10:02:

[Chino, indio, gringo, latino/Hispano Americano, etc...] Leornardo,

Setled down your horses! Think outside the box, this happens everywhere. I'm sure it has happend to you many times in the US, and you probably thought that it would not happen in a nother country. Well it did, and it will continue to happen whether it's hometown, USA or anywhere in the world.

You mentioned that you are a well educated person right? how can someone be educated in trying to figure out an ethnicity just by looks?? in you case Korean.

Example:

1. Lets say you get pulled over by the cops in the US: they will describe you as an Asian/male
2 In colombia they will simple call you Chino which is often used for Asian decend.

By looks or color of their skin can you:
tell a hindu person from a Pakistani?
where a latino or hispanis comes from ?

Thanks for sharing your opiniion


John

John

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emilyh says on Jan 7, 2005, 17:36:

ColombianoX Aaah, maybe that explains it, they are from Bogota. I didn't realise that there were two meanings! Thanks

Em :)

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isaactraveler says on Jan 7, 2005, 18:04:

chino also refers to someone with jetblack hair my fiancee also calls her sister china. I call my girl "nalgona" but she likes it since she knows I like her tushy.

Lately though I have been calling her gringita. she seems to get a kick outta that heheh

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