Social security benefits to non american spouse

Blue says on Aug 6, 2005, 07:46:

I believe she would need to have been married to the American for a minimum of 5 years AND to have lived in the U.S. for a minimum of 5 years. There's been some activity to try and change these requirements but I don't think anything has been done. Also, I guess you do know that she wouldn't be eligible for survivor benefits until age 60 for reduced benefits and age 65 for full benefits unless minor children were involved.

Blue

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aztec says on Aug 6, 2005, 08:13:

Following may help This may help but it is written in government verbiage and thus hard to understand.

A person can qualify for widow's or widower's benefits if he or she was married to the deceased worker for at least the 9 months just before the worker died. (A surviving divorced spouse must have been married to the worker for 10 years immediately before the date the final divorce became effective.)

The 9-month duration-of-marriage requirement is waived if the insured person's death was accidental or if it occurred in the line of duty while he or she was a member of a uniformed service serving on active duty or if the widow(er) who was married to the insured person at the time of the insured's death was previously married to and divorced from him or her and the previous marriage had lasted 9 months; or if the worker was precluded from divorcing a prior institutionalized spouse under State law and married the widow(er) claimant within 60 days after the prior spouse's death. The first three of these exceptions to the 9-month duration-of-marriage requirement do not apply if at the time of the marriage the worker could not reasonably have been expected to live for 9 months.

Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to noncitizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after December 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.

This law does not affect:

* Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.;
* Social Security benefits for people who applied before December 1, 1996; or
* Entitlement to the lump sum death payment.

If you are a U.S. citizen, you may receive your Social Security payments outside the U.S. as long as you are eligible for them. Regardless of your citizenship, there are certain countries where we are not allowed to send payments. For more information, please visit website at: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10137.html

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Blue says on Aug 6, 2005, 09:15:

Try This..... This SSA guide will answer your question in easy to understand english. http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10137.pdf

Blue

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rjstuff says on Aug 6, 2005, 09:39:

I think you get this info every year At least I get a statement from SS every year around my birthday (I guess they start sending it once you turn 50 - maybe, not sure?) It lists what my benfits are and my spouse's and death benefits etc. etc.
If you have not turned 50 yet - you can request a statement from SS - I did (to buy retirement time through my private pension.) Good luck

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BAQ says on Aug 6, 2005, 10:56:

Short answer The short answer to the origional question is NO, not a dime, the day you die, the checks stop.

Semper Fidelis !

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ws244 says on Aug 6, 2005, 12:00:

socisl benefits Appreciate the very helpful comments and websites gentlemen. ws

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 17:47:

It's a good question you bring up, WS. One for which I unfortunately do not know the answer.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Aug 6, 2005, 17:54:

BAQ--To be sure I understand you You say that a Col. Spouse who is married to an American but has never lived in the US is not entitled to any SS Dependent's Checks after the Husband dies? That is interesting because I know of a woman's mother in Bogota who just passed away who had been collecting SS Checks for maybe 20 years. She never lived here to my knowledge-only made visits from time to time-like once a year or so. Her Husband was Colombian who in time became an American Citizen after immigrating to NYC.She collected off his earnings. Her daughter asked me a few months back(after her mom died) if there was any way she could continue to collect the Mom's checks(and keep the gravy rolling)and I told her as an Independent adult she could not collect as she was an adult and never payed into the SS system a minimum of 10 r. which is the Preq); furthermore she had to inform the US Government of her Mom's death and return any funds recieved after the mom's death to the US Government. Of course it is different here in the USA because the spouse CAN continue to collect off the Husband's earnings even if the Husband passes on.They had to have been married 10 yrs. minimally or become disabled prior to the 10 yr. period. BTW-in Bogota, there is a LOT of Misinformation on this SS question because almost everyone this woman talked to in Bogota informed her she could continue to collect the checks of her mom. One even went so far to tell her that the Deceased Lady's Grandaughter, who is 10 yr. old, could collect the Grandmother's checks because she had the same last name as the grandmother! This is the Incorrect info that exist presently on the streets and offices in Bogota.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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BAQ says on Aug 6, 2005, 18:54:

YEP The original post asked about a spouse who has NEVER lived in the United States. If you move to Colombia and you wife is a Colombian citizen and has NOT lived in the United States she is not entitled to your benefits when you die.

The information I posted is what I was told by SSA. Now if someone can give me a referance to a section of the SSA code that will allow my wife to continue getting my checks when I die, PLEASE post it. Would help me out and take a load off my mind.

Semper Fidelis !

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Blue says on Aug 6, 2005, 19:17:

The two five year rules apply to Colombian citizens; however, I believe several years ago some other rules or exceptions applied which may explain your example from Bogota. The SSA material in the links above spell it out pretty clearly.

Blue

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ws244 says on Aug 6, 2005, 20:08:

social security Well i went to Aztec's and Blue's website, and on page 10 it seems if she lived in the states or territories for 5 years married to you, after 5 years though she is not a citizen, returns home because you dropped dead, she is entitled upon age to benefits even though again living in Colombia. I am keying on the sentence living in the states married for 5 years. Maybe someone else can read it and see if they agree, or was this already stated and i just do not understand it. If so i will find an attorney to double check on this. Thanks again for the website. ws

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miamimike says on Aug 6, 2005, 21:59:

Interesting... That Lady I posted about NEVER lived in the US for 5 years . She would come to the States for a Vacation maybe once a year. She was seperated(not legally) from her Naturalized American/Colombian Husband.He lived in the Northeast, she lived in Bogota. She collected benefits for many many years. She also had a Card for Medicare.This Deceased Lady's Father(in the 50s) was very well CONNECTED at a High Level and the Family name in Bogota is one of those Old connected names(not necessarily one of the most loved by the local citizenry). Wonder if this had a bearing on the matter.....

In Miami, it is has been known that people living here give(lend) their Medicare Cards to their reletives who come here on Vacation(foreign) to enter one our local miami hospitals, have their operation,recuperate and return home and no one is the wiser.Some even continued to get the drugs thru Medicare. All at the expense of the US Taxpayer. And one wonders why Medicare is in dire financial straits. They should take preventive steps to halt this fraud before it takes our system down the tubes.

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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Blue says on Aug 7, 2005, 06:46:

Another solution.... WS: You are reading it right. But if you want to doublecheck and save attorney's fees to boot you may want to contact SSA through their website by email. Just go to www.socialsecurity.gov and click on the how to contact us link. Select the Ask a Question form and then select International Issues from the dropdown menu. Fire away an email with your specific questions and you'll get an answer that will be better than getting something from an attorney plus it will be free.

Blue

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ws244 says on Aug 7, 2005, 12:21:

social security Thank you Blue i will ask them. I can now see the problem for older married anglos living in Colombia who never lived here with their Colombian wife, and upon death the wife has no benefit opportunity, particularly if the man has retired at 65 and drops dead at 67 etc, never having lived long enough to receive out what he put in to the system in the first place. It almost seems it would be necessary to have a home up here and spend the minimum time as the the 5 year rule requires, then stay down there as much as possibe in the interim. Very expensive but appears to be the only way to avail her of the benefit in the end. ws

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BAQ says on Aug 7, 2005, 12:44:

screwed system Yea, its a screwed system. If you read the informaiton, citizens of SOME OTHER countries are EXEMPT from the residency requirement, thats what pisses me off. If I had married a woman from Germany, France, Spain ect and moved there, she could collect when I die. Ya have to wonder what goes through the mind in Congress when they write these laws. Or maybe it should be HOW MUCH MONEY goes in the pocket when these laws are written.

Semper Fidelis !

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 7, 2005, 13:09:

Germany etc BAQ, I guessing the reason the rules are different for those countries is that there is a negotiated reciprical treaty in place. In other words, an American married to a German who never lived there is ALSO probably entitled to German benefits. And Colombia probably doesn't have such an agreement (not that the average Colombian pension would go too far in the US).

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rjstuff says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:28:

Aha! Maybe its just racism in its glory! Like visa waivers for certain european countries, US has treaties with other white/european nations of reciprocity on pensions also (just like they do on travel and who knows what else!) Wouldn't it make more sense to allow pension benefits to spouses in poor(er) nations also rather than excluding them? Tengo la camisa blanca

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BAQ says on Aug 8, 2005, 10:07:

Just for Laughs Ya know, just for shits and giggles, I am going to fire off an e-mail to the White House and a letter the Ambasador Wood's office in Bogota to see what kind of response I get. I figure any response will be something to the effect of: Dear Sir, thank you for writing, you must be snorting Coke if you thing the U.S Government will change a policy that will cost us more money. It is more profitable for us when you die. Thank you for your inquiry. P.S. One of the reasons we don;t want to continue to pay your wife when you die is Iraq. We think wasting tax dollars there is more important than keeping our commitments and obligations to our citizens.

Semper Fidelis !

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CaryGrant says on Aug 9, 2005, 13:24:

I'm Canadian, and was married to a US citizen. Both of us lived and worked in the US. I was told by my immigration lawyer and the SSA that I was NOT entitled to social security - though I was obligated to pay into it - unless I became a US citizen. Miamimike: the US gov't (and citizens) got many thousands of dollars out of a foreigner (me) for social security for US citizens. It cuts both ways, and we're not even talking US foreign policy.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 13:49:

Did you check out the link to the SSA guide that Blue posted above? Very informative. Many non-US citizens receive social security. Were you a green card holder?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Aug 9, 2005, 13:52:

Cary Grant That is an interesting comparison Did you go and seek a second opinion on your being able to collect? As far as SSA, I wouldn't have much confidence in them as they aren't the most knowledgeable. As evidence, ask 5 different SSA Supervisors the same question and I bet you receive 5 different responses. Same for IRS on Taxes-all have a different answer! Who knows the solution!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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CaryGrant says on Aug 9, 2005, 15:19:

miami It is possible the lawyer/SSA assumed I would become a citizen, and thus did not *also* tell me, "Your contributions to social security will no longer be gifts to the American government when you become a citizen...or have had permanent residency for five years."

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rjstuff says on Aug 9, 2005, 15:46:

You are worried abot the pittance they pay from SSA? Come on now - even if you were a citizen - SSA doesn't pay significant amounts - the only way to survive on that is to own your house, sell it after retirement and live off the equity and hope you have neough savings for emergencies! And don't get sick. ... Or move to Mexico, Costa Rica or Panama! Maybe even Colombia!

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