sick and tired of hearing bad thing of our beloved Colombi

fzrdan says on Feb 11, 2005, 13:07:

We are only supposed to talk about the good side of Colombia? Keeping everything all nice and pretty on this site doesn't help anyone. A balance of positive and negative things is good. This site doesn't pretend to be the tourism website for Colombia (does it Peter?).

Just because someone is not Colombian, that person can't say anything bad about Colombia? That is ridiculous. Many of the non-colombians on this site have much admiration for Colombia. If it wasn't for those non-colombians going to Colombia and enjoying themselves, this website would not even exist. Last time I checked, Peter wasn't Colombian. Neither are many of the regular posters here.

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ixent (☼Travelguide writer) says on Feb 11, 2005, 13:15:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 13:16:

Saying bad thing about Colombia would be like a for example uhmmm don't go to la macarena because is dangerous and I agree with you but saying things like Colombia never ever going to have tourists, the guerrilla never is going to finish or so so arrived there by chance or the women in Colombia married an American guy just for the green card that's the talking I am saying about. You can say positive criticism

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 13:33:

yes, people live ordinary lives, send their kids to school every morning, go to their jobs, eat lunch, sleep a siesta, visit their friends, solve a myriad of problems every day in Colombia. It's like any other country in the world for that. Most people are preoccupied with their everyday living, not with the big picture problems all the time.

I intend to de-mystify the life in Colombia, bring it into the everyday perspective and for that I need the help of all Colombians on this board, those who live in the country and those who don't.

We need to construct a positive, yet critical picture of how people live their lives in Colombia. I want to be part of it, now and as long as I can. Keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Lionheart says on Feb 11, 2005, 13:40:

I think I know what you mean, kat1 Lately there have been a few new posters who have primarily posted stuff to put Colombia down in every aspect. Most of these posts were not based on real facts, but generalizations and stereotypes. Most of these posters (some were the same person using multiple nicknames) claim to be from Colombia, which makes it even more sad and/or disgusting.

Due to these very bad posts other posts with some negative issues, warnings etc appear even worse, because the negative influence is out of balance, it becomes overbearing.

Posting these negative posts is not against the rules, no matter how bad they are. I was very tempted to delete a post yesterday which made me really mad, and another member hollered for the moderator, asking to ban the poster. But truth is that nobody wants to have this kind of censorship, as well, and it is good that way.

I would suggest ignoring the nonsense posts, and otherwise write constructive critical posts. If a poster becomes too much of a nuisance, like hijacking threads too often, the moderators will discuss about this poster with Peter, plus you all are free to click on the Report a Problem link on top of each post. I guess this option is closest we can get to Voting somebody off the Island.

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poco says on Feb 11, 2005, 14:41:

Negative comments ???? For one,,, EVERYTHING,, and please correct me if I'm wrong,, is MORE expensive in COLOMBIA than the same item in the United States. YES, if it is made in Colombia,, it will be less,, if it is an imitation, then that is cheaper,, and easier to find. Chervolets,, Ha,, the US made cars are OK,, the ones made in BRAZIL or Mexico have doors and bodies slightly better than metal cans,, tinny is the word.
Some items that are more costly:
Cars
Gasoline, about $2.40 a gallon (5,300 pesos)
Tools like circular saws, grinders, drills, cutoff saws etc. Many Dewalt tools are made in Brazil and are NOT the same overall quality.
Meat
Chicken
Hot dogs (ie: sausages)

Whats cheaper
Labor like maids, store clerks, hamburger flippers, construction workers.
Cement
Bricks
Sand
Local Beer
Houses (most don't have a/c, hot water, closets etc. they SHOULD be cheaper).
Furniture
Fruits
Some clothing,, but it is NOT the same quality as a similar item in the US.
Utilities,, gee,, they should be since the only electric item many people have is a light bulb, TV and refrigerator. Bet the bill is higher in a level 4 area.

What is the attraction? Number one is women, Number two transportation, Number three benign climate.

It will be awhile before tourists think Colombia is a Mecca, especially with the exchange rate for US dollars dropping like a rock since November 2340 today,, down from 2550 the first of November and about 3000 two years ago. The US will increase its GDP and the amount of workers employed by lowering the value of the dollar and making its good cheap to buy.

Are these negative?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 14:55:

you do honor your handle, Mr. poco.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 16:10:

I think petrol is cheaper than the UK. £1 Diesel here. meat in the Uk over the roof you have to become a force vegetarian. clothes? I don't know in the USA but here the quality(colombia) is good.in other parts is Quantity but no quality,In the UK sausages are cheap but gods knows if is pigs, or horse, badgers, fox, you name it.Beer come on is dead cheap in Colombia and fruits where do you shop? electrical like microwave maybe yes they are a bit expensive. and if you think the number one attraccion in colombia is women you are shallow.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 16:28:

I wonder were is old gringo?

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Lionheart says on Feb 11, 2005, 16:36:

OG? did he survive Elmo? did they survive each other? weren't they meeting each other?

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 11, 2005, 16:41:

Lionheart
did they kill each other over the burra i know old gringo fancy elmo's burra for a long time. by the way you have nice eyes lionheart. (blushing)

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Lionheart says on Feb 11, 2005, 16:44:

last signs last mention of them was from Miguel, saying they (?) or just Elmo were too drunk to meet. Thanks kat ... **big smile**

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Gomezman5 says on Feb 11, 2005, 17:00:

On the whole................... I would say that there are many more people who make positive posts about Colombia, than negative ones. If you don't like the negative posts, you don't have to read them or if you do, you certainly are entitled to rebut whatever negative posts that you believer are inaccurate.

This web site is not an extension of Colombia's Department of Tourism.
Nor should it be as much. I was born in Colombian and I have all the right in the world, to talk up the negative of Colombia with the ultimate goal of hoping that Colombians themselves, will insist on change instead of being happy with the status quo, and turing a blind eye to reality.

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fzrdan says on Feb 11, 2005, 17:15:

kat1, I wish to clarify my first post. I agree that some folks make very negative comments, especailly concerning safety. If the comments come from long time posters, then I think those folks are just trying to be helpful. You start to see a pattern by many folks once they are here awhile. As for the new folks, why should any long time poster pay any attention to them? You have no idea who they are or if they know what they are talking about. The problem is that many other new folks don't know a long time poster from another newbie and this newbie may think the other newbie knows what he/she is talking about.

I understand where you are coming from. I don't like to here the US bashing posts by certain individuals. They get me worked up sometimes. But to have a good fair discussion, you need some comments about the bad side of Colombia. As long as those posts come from a reasonable thinking person that doesn't just spout propoganda or something from a movie.

I am rambling now.....

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greenday says on Feb 11, 2005, 18:22:

poco, you're wrong Poco, I don't think you've ever eaten a steak in Colombia, especially those you find in the "asadas" restaurants in Medellín. Best steak I've ever had and much cheaper than you'll find in any restaurant in the U.S. They melt in your mouth...
And women are the number one tourist attraction?? Where do you get your info?? And I hate to say it, but the low exchange rate for the dollar is NOT why Colombia is not a tourist "mecca", I think it's something called "security, or maybe FARC, and a civil war".
Your credibility with me just dropped a few notches.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 11, 2005, 21:38:

You sure got that right, greenday.

I really don't think there is too much negative. I'd say there is a heckuva lot more negative stuff posted about the US. Actually I think people tend to paint a rosier picture of life in Colombia than it really is. I kinda like the place in spite of everything. And who cares if Colombia ever has any tourists? Colombians are so into their own little trip I am not sure most of them care much about the rest of the world anyway. They really remind me of Americans in that way.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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go2pr says on Feb 12, 2005, 02:48:

Kat1 Are you a kind of mollah or taliban wannabe who try to erect a right-thinking charia for preventing people to post objective or critical views about your "beloved Colombia" ?

Pathetic.

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 04:37:

no, go2pr no my man, I think her point is that the posters here who post critical and negative things about Colombia really don't know what they are talking about (see poco's post above), and most have probably never set foot on Colombian soil, cannot count one solid relationship they have with a Colombian person, or if they have ever been to Colombia they were so afraid that they never left their hotel room. There is a difference between posting critical material on Colombia based on vast experience with the country, and being critical just because you heard a second hand story from a friend of a friend or have read some horse shit on the internet, or maybe just had one bad experience there from that "one" trip you made.
go2pr, fill is in, what is your history with Colombia???

And kat1 is pathetic?? you've just shown your ignorance regarding Colombian people. As a whole they are some of the most patriotic people that I have known, and will ALWAYS defend their country, good or bad. If you encounter a "Colombian" on these internet forums who constantly criticizes Colombia, the poster, more than likely, is not a Colombian, but a troll.

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go2pr says on Feb 12, 2005, 05:41:

greenday "go2pr, fill is in, what is your history with Colombia???"

You pointed right, I'm ashamed to say that my only experience of Colombia is a two weeks trip to Medellin last September. But at 39 y.o, living currently in Sao Paulo (since four years), having been travelling throughout Brasil since MANY more years, having been married two times, with an Argentina and with a Carioca, having still connections with their respectives families, having tons of friends where I live, I have a humble experience of south america.


"As a whole they are some of the most patriotic people that I have known"

This showing your ignorance of south america. Go to Brasil or Argentina, and listen to those nationalists uneducated morons. Patriotism (which is often blended with nationalism) is a reductionist shuck, maintained largely by people too stupid to actually engage with other peoples' ideas.

Any citizenship status, as any sort of ethnic, racial or national presuptions are pretty fucking stupid. Culture is transmitted by LEARNING, my man, not by birth or citizenship, and in Colombia, as in Brasil and anywhere else, there's TONS of usual, pathetic, shit-talking, childish, vulgar, swearing, sexist, rude and loud local people. It's stupid to see those countries through the most favorable and stereotypical lens as possible.

That's my experiences and my point of view.

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Brians says on Feb 12, 2005, 05:44:

I wanted to make a comment as a first time poster and Gringo. I find this site extremely well balance. I am making my first trip to Colombia this weekend. Medellin. You can imagine that as a Gringo my American friends first reaction is "Are you crazy...". Well I also have traveled everywhere in my life. I have been married twice. Once Swedish and once Panamanian. I have friends from every possible culture. I am lucky that at 38 I have seen so much of this world and experienced so many cultures. Anyway my Colombian friends in the USA are the most genuine people I have ever met. They are beautiful people and I fell in love with their culture. I will be staying and traveling with their families down there and they have assured me I will be fine and "Don't listen to all the negative stuff" is a common saying amoung them. They live in a wealthy area and it is safe. I still was a little concerned and found this site. I think that the fact that it is well balanced and not just a poster for Colombia tourism makes this site so great. It has given me great pointers and ideas on my trip. It has also made me fell much more comfortable about Colombia. The greatest thing about the site is I see a people who are passionate about their country and I see this in my friends also. This will be my first trip and if the country is as beautiful as my Colombian friends then I am sure it will not be my last. So thank you guys for all of your information....

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go2pr says on Feb 12, 2005, 06:38:

And Greenday, what about YOUR atonishing knowledge of south america "my man" ?

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Miguel says on Feb 12, 2005, 07:22:

This site... Usually contains valuable information and insights to all things Colombian. It is only as good as those who post. Personally, I want to hear the good, bad and the ugly about Colombia, as long as it is pertinent information. I would suggest that the moderators have a quicker trigger finger on the obvious trolls who post bullshit and waste our time. That being said, has anyone stayed at the Darien Gap Marriott lately? I hear they ALWAYS have rooms available ;-)

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 10:39:

again go2pr #1, I have no desire to go to Argentina or Brazil.
#2, not all South American countries are alike, just like not all North American countries are alike.
#3, try spending a little more time in Colombia before making blanket statements regarding their patriotism.
#4, I'm sorry to read that being patriotic is reductionist shuck, engaged by stupid people. Instead of writing it on the internet, go to Colombia and tell it to someone's face...you don't have the balls now do you??
#5, your above post to me is basically "psycho-babble"...
#6, why not find a good Brazilian forum to contribute to??

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 11:09:

go2pr just saw your other post to me...hey, my experience is in Colombia, not South America as a whole. I would never make blanket statements regarding Brazil or Argentina based on my experience in Colombia.
Regarding my experience in Colombia...let's see...have made 36+ trips over the last 10 years, ex-wife Caleña, fluent in spanish, have friends (both male & female) in all the major cities, not a day goes by that I don't talk by phone to one of my female friends (just got back from a 10 day trip to Bogota & Cartagena with one of them), have Colombian friends here in my city in the US, and in other cities...
So I think I have quite extensive Colombian experience as compared to the average gringo on this forum. HOWEVER, based on that experience I could never make judgements on other South American countries, since not all South American countries are alike, and it would be wise if you didn't also, since in my mind it destroys your credibility. Speaking of which, I just read a thread you started last May when you joined this board, looking for advice regarding hip clubs in Cali/Medellín. In that post you said you were in your early 30's, but above you state you are 39. Which is it?? Just curious...

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go2pr says on Feb 12, 2005, 11:10:

"#1, I have no desire to go to Argentina or Brazil"

I couldn't care less. How many times you said you've been to Colombia ?

"#2, not all South American countries are alike, just like not all North American countries are alike"

Son, South America is a whole, people of more or less the same ethnicity have radically different citizenships.

#3, try spending a little more time in Colombia before making blanket statements regarding their patriotism".

I spent the last fifteen years of my life travelling in South America and four years living there, and I've often be confronted with patriotics and nationalists. Patriotism, "true nationality" are reductionist and racist shucks : like I said, culture is transmitted by learning and not by birth or citizenship, and stupidity has no frontiers (or nationality).

#4 Instead of writing it on the internet, go to Colombia and tell it to someone's face...you don't have the balls now do you??

How old did you say you are ?

#6, why not find a good Brazilian forum to contribute to??

What's your point here, are you "a kind of mollah or taliban wannabe who try to erect a right-thinking charia" ?

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 11:12:

go2pr read my post above "son"...

Bottom line is YOU KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT COLOMBIA, face the facts "son"...

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go2pr says on Feb 12, 2005, 11:24:

Well Son, I'm very skeptical about the idea of "nationality" in south america. Let me talk about "ethnicity" instead, as your 36++ trips to Colombia surely have open your eyes about this.

While it may be ridiculous to say that anyone can be any ethnicity they want, neither nationality, culture, or identity are congruent with ethnicity ; this is especially true in south america where, once more, people of the same ethnicity have radically different citizenships, but identical ways of being and sense of self.

Like I said, you should travel a little bit and open your eyes. But of course you "have absolutly no desire to go to Brasil". Clever guy. For when your 37th trip to Colombia ?

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 11:44:

go2pr "For when your 37th trip to Colombia ?"

This is a quote from your post above...you, "son" are very hard to understand...and what is this bullshit about ethnicity and nationality?? psycho-babble at its best...
From what I hear there are many beautiful women in Brazil...why don't you go out this afternoon, find one, and get laid...I think that's the only thing you need. And hey, if you can't find one who'll do it for free, let me know, I'll send you a few bucks for a prostie...

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greenday says on Feb 12, 2005, 12:00:

sure go2pr "To teach you that south america is a whole, kiddo."

I'll let that totally absurd comment be the last word. Have a great day in Brazil!!!! And remember, if you go to Colombia again, they speak spanish, not portuguese..

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ColombianoX says on Feb 12, 2005, 12:57:

I'm also sick and tired of these anti-colombian jerks who unfortunately stumble across this board, there's one here right now in this topic, but I'll always be more than happy to tell them what they can go do with themselves.

Don't worry, Kat, the truly PATHETIC people are the ones who have nothing better to do with their sorry lives than to go a computer and bash a country they hardly know anything about.


ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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marce says on Feb 12, 2005, 15:07:

I feel the same kat I started coming to this forum (just reading it) when I knew someone (a foreigner) had created this site to talk about Colombian cause he had fallen in love with it.
I was really happy to see how people feel about Colombia. They wanted to come again and again in spite of all the bad things. But sometimes I feel there are people who participate here with the intention to discourage Colombians (we dont get discouraged easily, uds saben) and foreigners. I think we have enough with the media and we accept constructive criticism but not "mal intentioned" that is not very nice. And it is a natural reaction, just look at the post of the Americans when someone criticizes the US, they do get mad.
The nationalism thing is so relative. Some people just dont need to work on their national proud, but Colombians do. We have felt as the "undesired" when we travel so what would it be bad seen that we work on our national self-steem. I dont see any bad on that.

Juanalejo, colombianox and kat, I enjoy your posts. It seems we are the few who are Colombians and really care about it.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 12, 2005, 15:34:

marce there's a lot of us non-Colombians here who certainly care about Colombia. While we would defend Colombia to the bitter end it doesn't mean that we don't want to be restrained to express criticism about the things that could be improved there. I personally (even when I say "we" I really mean just "I") would like to encourage more Colombians and people who live in Colombia to participate in these discussions.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 12, 2005, 15:40:

I asked my wife about posting and she thinks the whole thing is stupid and a waste of time. Besides she can't read any of the posts in English anyway.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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marce says on Feb 12, 2005, 15:53:

Desi, dont get me wrong When I said it seems we are the few Colombians in this forum I didnt mean to say that we were the only ones who cared about Colombian. I can see that last sentence is ambiguous. I just meant that we are the few Colombians in this forum and that I can see that we care about Colombia (not the only ones,though)I forgot to include you too.
I agree with you with the criticism thing. I havent said we should not criticise and try to change things, but sometimes that criticism is not accompanied by action, it just stays at that level: criticism, that is what I dont like. I guess it also has to do with the way criticism is done, the way things are said and people's intentions when they criticise.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Feb 12, 2005, 16:00:

that's ok marce I would like more Colombian participation here anyway. Sometimes these talks only reflect the US point of view and I cordially dislike that narrowing in the focus. You'r absolutely right about what you said that the gringos don't take criticism well; even the most enlightened ones get upset when people don't agree about the greatness of their country.

Colombians have a rough ride everywhere in the world. I know that because my family is entirely Colombian even if I'm not that myself. I feel that the sterotyped image Colombians have in the world is a real hindrance for talented and resilient Colombians trying to get ahead in life outside their country.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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marce says on Feb 12, 2005, 16:30:

Desideria, where were you born? and where do you live ? Let's add some feedback. I am a 23 caleña girl living in France right now. I work as a kind of spanish teacher, cause I am not a real teacher, I am what they call a conversation assistant. I remember my students' faces when I said I was Colombian. They immediately thought about drugs and I dont blame them, but I was there to show them the rest of Colombia. I am doing a research project right now about Colombia and some want to work on the FARC and it is ok, but some are very interested in Colombian soccer, Colombian history and even roller skating, which is very nice. They like to compare sport results between france and Colombia and they are very concerned about the work we are doing. I also work with music in my classes and last time a class was singing 'fotografia' of Juanes. I never saw myself making french teenagers sing a Juanes' song. It was unbelivable and great!! They enjoyed it of course!!

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