Should You Use a Pre-Nuptial Agreement? Entertainer Shakira Believes In Them,,,

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:11:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:15:

That's not even the Question darloup! Try answering the OP "Should You Use a Pre-Nuptial Agreement? "


darloup says " Can you compare? ;-)
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Compare to what?

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:24:

tabla says on May 31, 2009, 01:29:

Good question. Let's clarify it. You can't talk about prenups in an international setting without discussing jurisdictions. For example, in USA prenups are common and legally enforceable, subject to some strict tests. In UK, on the other hand, they are neither common nor legally enforceable. So the first question here is: are prenups legally enforceable in Colombia? (Note that Shakira is marrying an Argentinian and possibly living in USA so at least 3 jurisdictions are relevant for her. You are talking international law here.) Next, should you have one? A downside of US prenups is that they require full prior disclosure of each party's assets. If anything is omitted, the thing is unenforceable. Now here's a question for seasoned PBHers: how do you tactfully bring up the suggestion of a prenup over a romantic, candlelit dinner? I have an interesting thought for UK cats who don't make prenups because they're not enforceable. I say: have one anyway!!! Reason (1) at least they act as statement of intention, to be honoured to the extent legally possible. (2) Some people are actually honest and might stick to an agreement even if not legally required to. (3) maybe by the time you divorce, the law will have changed, and they may have become enforceable. Final thought: does a prenup apply on death as well as divorce? Presumably does, but again need to check the law in your jurisdiction. Summary: US folks may assume prenups are available everywhere, but that's not universally true. Hope some folks will write about prenups in other countries.

I also write for the archive.

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miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:31:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:24 (today): flag

I will agree with Shakira.

still I don't know why she wants to marry that loser :(
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Why is he a Loser? I have no idea to his background, profession ect . Didn't even know Shakira had a Novio until I googled this subject 20 minutes ago, I don't follow younger contemporary entertainers for the most part. Enlighten us

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:32:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:39:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:42:

Tabla--the Pre-Nup question is aimed at those marrying a Colombiana and bringing her to the USA.

Very Informative post you left. Thanks

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:48:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:48:

Darloup--I was looking for a reply like Tabla left.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:49:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:50:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:50:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:39 (today): flag

You have to see his past history... he is a daddy's boy... but whatever rock her boat
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Kat, Shakira seems to be a person with a reasonable Level of Intelligence ; do you think she would pick a Flop to spend her life with?

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:55:

darloup says " Can you compare? ;-)
-----------------------------------
Compare to what?
-----------------------------------

Compare to who?

Darloup-still don't know who you are comparing Shakira to, if that's what you are saying.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:57:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 01:58:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:50 (today): flag

Whatever you were looking for, the posters don't really care in view of your overall, and expected, sterile comments.
======================================================================================

Darloup---I won't dignify that comment with a response. Have a Good Night or morning, wherever you are,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:01:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:06:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:49 (today): flag

I think a pre-nup should be sign if one of the parties have a massive amount of money and the other one none, but for it is not worth it for someone who has just own a house and a car,
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Kat I disagree because everything is reletive. If someone worked extremely hard at a low wage for many years for a modest house, car then those belongings are as precious to him /her as a Mansion is to someone who inherited them and never worked for them. It would hurt the low wage earner more then the Wealthy person so in my opinion, its is worth it, a Pre-Nup.His or Her loss will hurt more then a loss to a wealthy person and he should protect them. Also, what is perceived as wealthy in one country may not be in another country.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:07:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:14:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:07 (today): flag

I never signed a pre-nunp. my husband wouldn't allowed and anyway in the UK pre-nups are not valid and when I married that never crossed our minds
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Kat--maybe this is your first or his first marrige? Many people getting Pre-Nups do this to protect their children(if they had them) from a prior marrige.The laws are different here in the US(in my state) then where you live. Seeing Shakira getting a Pre-Nup, I see its not a cultural issue(in colombia) as I thought it may have been before I read her story.

Why wouldn't your husband allow you to sign a Pre-Nup? Do you have to ask(as a novia) His permission?

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:15:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:19:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:22:

Kat, from the Colombian Lawyer who posts on PBH:

THE TRUTH ABOUT COLOMBIAN PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS
PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS AND MARRITAL SOCIETY:

CONCEPT: According to Colombian civil law, the prenuptial agreement is the contract that man and wife sign before the marriage, in which they discuss the property of the assets bought during their union.

Requirements: To be valid, the PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS have to be done by public document, and if some clauses are against the moral or the law, they will not be accepted.

Once the couple has married, the PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS can not be revoked and they will force since the day of the celebration.

The PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENTS will describe the assets of each member of the couple and their value, plus the debts that every person has on his or her own.

As a lawyer, I do recommend that before getting married look for an legal advice to decide if it is secure to protect your assets for the future.

*******IMPORTANT: Prenuptial agreements have effect in Colombia before the nuptials , in case you got married and then you want prenuptial agreement in USA, they are considered as not valid.*************

Esteban R
Colombian Lawyer
email : lawyerscolombia at yahoo.com

By lawyer in colombia on Feb 5, 2007, 17:25 in Friendly Talkzone.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:25:

Kat--here in the USA, where (church, temple,in front of a JP ect) you marry has no effect on Property rights. State Laws(civil marrige) takes precedence in your state of residence. And even with that(laws), a Good High Power attorney can twist those laws.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:26:

Not Darloup google it and they are not valid, I have a millionare friend who told me also that. but I know they were trying to force them in 2007 I don't know if it went through.


this is something about

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/27/familyandrelationships.law

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:28:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:32:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:32:

Kat--I ascribe to the statement found at the end of this Column in the below link:

"Remember: Some people may be hesitant to enter a prenup with their beloved, because they believe it destroys the romance and fantasy of their upcoming marriage. ****A prenuptial agreement, however, gives a couple an opportunity to share their hopes and dreams with one another and articulate their aspirations.*** The best chance of living up to one another's expectations is knowing what they are in advance and finding out what it is that your partner holds dear. A prenup can intensify the pleasure of a relationship by drawing out the couple's desires, promoting communication and enabling partners to establish for themselves the rules of their marriage. ***By virtue of this process, a prenup protects the romance that launched the couple and makes happily-ever-after more likely. A relationship based on reality is stronger than a relationship built on illusion."****



http://www.equalityinmarriage.org/bmprenup.html

One doesn't like to dwell on a failing marrige but today here in the States its a reality as many studies show 6 out of 10 failing between 2 persons of the same culture, same langauge ect in 7 years or less.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:35:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:37:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:32 (today): flag

miamimike that law above the pre-nup one if only enforceable (sp) only if you sign a pre-nup, but if you don't then what I just told you is right, Esteban can confirm that.

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Kat, I never said you were wrong as far as the law goes in Colombia. Probaby the majority(read not all) of people taking a foreign wife though return to their Home country and in the case of PBH, that's the USA. And many guys here get married in the states, that's why they are always asking about the Fiancee Visa, to bring their Novia to the US to marry.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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love2colombia says on May 31, 2009, 02:38:

Yo envidio a Antinio

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:40:

Kat: "that law above the pre-nup one if only enforceable (sp) only if you sign a pre-nup, but if you don't then what I just told you is right"

Yep you're right. In Colombia it''s called "la sociedad conyugal" (see here: http://zembook.com/asesorjuridico/2009/04/03/la-sociedad-conyugal/) which is automatically implemented UNLESS a pre-nup is signed. Same as in the UK.

Both parties keep their assets acquired before the wedding (in Colombian, they make a difference between assets such as houses, fincas etc...

Que bienes no Hacen Parte de la Sociedad Conyugal
La ley establece que deben hacer parte de la sociedad conyugal todas las pertenencias de los futuros cónyuges, excepto los bienes inmuebles que tengan en el momento de casarse: casas, apartamentos, lotes, fincas etc.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:45:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:48:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:51:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 02:52:

Kat my Buddy from West Palm Beach married one(lawyer) from BQA; the marrige last 11 months. He had a signed Pre-Nup in both langauges(officially translated btw from a State Certified translator) prior to the marrige. It (pre-nup) stood up in the court and served him well. He had "Assets" with a capital "A". I was interviewed as a witness in his Divorce so I am a little familiar with the Colombian Attornies.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 02:54:

miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 03:02:

Yep--the Court held her to the letter of the Law(florida). She attempted to use the old story that she didn't understand what she was signing but it was in Spanish and she was highly educated. She also spoke pretty passable English. Seeing what transpired in that Marrige left a lasting impression on me and brings out the cynic in me. Semper Paratus--Always ready/prepared

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 03:07:

My apologies Kat, it would appear that pre-nups are not valid in the UK, even if you sign one!!!!

Source: http://www.weddingguideuk.com/articles/legal/prenuptial.asp

"Are they legal in the UK?
In the United Kingdom, pre-nuptial agreements currently have no legal standing. The divorce courts have the last word in the division of all matrimonial property and would ignore any pre-nuptial agreement if they thought that it was in any way unreasonable to either of the parties involved, particularly regarding to the maintenance and housing of children. For example, regardless of whose name a couple’s property is in, a court may order it to be transferred to the other. This applies to all property that is owned seperately or jointly"

Cor, the UK is behind Colombia on this one!

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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aztec says on May 31, 2009, 05:36:

Well it appears I am the only one here who asked his wife to sign a pre-nup before marriage. Legally prepared in the US with two different lawyers representing us each separately. She understood the language and the impact of her signing the agreement. She signed the document and we proceeded to become married and now going on nineteen year's.

One other point. I destroyed the contract the afternoon after the marriage. Ripped it apart in her presence and we never looked back.

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bam m says on May 31, 2009, 06:50:

I think all the wealthy men should marry a poor colombiana and just give them the $.

"give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
Give it away give it away give it away now
I cant tell iff Im a king pin or a pauper"

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aztec says on May 31, 2009, 07:12:

To quote Lewis Grizzard “Instead of getting married again. I'm going to find a woman I don't like and give her a house.”

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tabla says on May 31, 2009, 21:08:

I think the key thing here is something no one has quite put their finger on so far. Typical scenario: US man with some assets (ie rich by Colombian standards) marries a poorbuthot Colombiana. He is blinded by love (or is it desire?). She may love him or she may in fact be more interested in the money/visa. Let's say in 50% of cases it's the former and 50% the latter. Now let's consider the cases where she's after the money/visa. The man is unlikely to raise the prenup issue because he's "blinded" as I said. But the key point is that the woman will want to avoid the prenup. And here's the crunch: a small part of the man knows and he's actually afraid he will lose her if he raises the issue! So he doesn't! As I said earlier, how do you raise the matter over a candlelight dinner? The answer is surprising. It's about family traditions. Prenups are not really the province of unequal marriages, where a rich guy marries a poor girl. They are the norm for marriages between folk from wealthy families, ie equal marriages. If prenups are the norm in your family, and also in the girl's, neither party nor their family will turn a hair when they sign a prenup. So the solution is to marry someone like yourself - similar age, wealth, background, religion, culture etc etc. I think what I am trying to say is that a prenup does not solve the problems caused by marrying someone very different from yourself.

I also write for the archive.

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tabla says on May 31, 2009, 21:27:

Darloup mentions la sociedad conyugal as a principle of Colombian matrimonial law. Is this similar to the notion of community property in the community property states of USA? These being Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin, as you all know. (The other states are sometimes referred to as common law states.) Some or all income earned by one spouse may be community income in these states.

Seems to me that in the community property states the law does a job rather like a prenup. What you have before the marriage remains your separate property and what is earned or acquired during the marriage belongs half and half to each. The key difference is that you can tailor a prenup as you like. A prenup is not just to deprive the poor wife of benefit. It can equally be generous to her by defining her entitlements. If these are dependent on factors like the length of the marriage, etc, then it can create a very fair arrangement but protect the wealthier party from unreasonable and disproportionate loss too.

I also write for the archive.

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NCBachelor says on May 31, 2009, 21:28:

Here's one that I liked - I have the whole document and I was going to pattern mine after this one.
Bill Murray's Pre-nup
http://www.slate.com/id/2192701/?GT1=38001

I have a female lawyer friend in Barranquilla who speaks very good English that I can get to do the translation for me, so I can present it in English and Spanish. I know that if we should divorce (since we are not going to be having children together) she would return to Colombia. So, I am offering her two years worth of her current pay for each year we are together. Although jobs are difficult to find, since she works for her brother, she could always work for him again and have a nice "nest egg" from that. My Colombiana sister -in-law who convinced me to look for a Colombian wife also said that I should definitely ask for the pre-nup since she knows some Latina women who bolted right after they got their greencards. My GF says she has no problems signing it.

“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence... Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race” Calvin Coolidge

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tabla says on May 31, 2009, 21:59:

I think what you say at the candlelight dinner is "Honey, I was thinking we should make sure we protect you by spelling out your entitlements in case anything happens to me or in the unlikely event that we didn't stay together. Maybe put something in writing? How much do you think you should have for each year we are together?" Just don't mention Colombian minimum wage.

Heck, if these prenups get too generous the Colombianas are going to start ASKING for them.

I also write for the archive.

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miamimike says on May 31, 2009, 23:38:

tabla says on May 31, 2009, 21:59 (today): flag

I think what you say at the candlelight dinner is "Honey, I was thinking we should make sure we protect you by spelling out your entitlements in case anything happens to me or in the unlikely event that we didn't stay together. Maybe put something in writing? How much do you think you should have for each year we are together?" Just don't mention Colombian minimum wage.

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Tabla- You are spot on with being too Generous. I don't understand why the issue of offering so many years of wages for years married should even be a topic for a Pre-Nup in say, the first 10 years of marrige. After that point after and seeing the marrige is surviving, I could see shifting a lot of the Assets to the Wife in the event you die but in the first couple years, Nada,,,I have observed a few cases here in Miami where the spouse was from S.America and she had assets, actually more then the husband. The S.American Wives refused to put their assets in joint title with their husbands yet they wanted the Husbands(house ect) to put the assets into joint title with them. I would say "No way Josefina". No way,,,

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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El Expatriado says on Jun 1, 2009, 03:59:

Darloup said:

Marriage = trust and faith in your partner
Pre-nup = no faith and no trust in the ensuing marriage

Funny, you don't look 19 years old in the photo.

I can only give advice to gringo males, wiith substantial assets , about mariage and pre-nups in general. In Canada, they are supposdly legal, but hardly worh the paper they are written on, and usually made to maximize the lawyers return in event of things going wrong. That's why they specify "Full Disclosure". When both paties see how much the gringo has, it makes it easy for both lawyers to see whether it's worth "having a good fight", thus maximizing the over-all profits for the legal profession.

The issue of being unromantic and a negative efect on the relationship is true I can discuss. Phrases like "Que Feo" usually come up in he discussion.

I long ago decided that the only trully solid prenuptial is the Carribean Ocean, the US land mass and Canadian Immigration sytem, and a bank account in an island somewhere, as backup. If you marry a Colombiana, stay in Colombia, and keep the majority your assets in your home country or some where else. In that way, these "unromantic" discussions don't arise, and you have much more solid protection.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 1, 2009, 06:39:

i would be prompted to conclude that one could only have a valid opinion on the subject en re themselves.

after being married 7 times--8 if you consider one, twice--i will have to say at this point in my life i'd have to say 'hell yes!' to a pre nup....that is,given my luck in the arena. since after all that, i'm basically penniless, the pre nup would be for my own defense and future. i'd like to know that i was gonna be well taken care of after the almost inevitable outcome....given history as a presage.

soooooo, we'ld just cut a deal and i'd know that--for once--i got taken care of instead of just taken.

patriarch

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nine inch nails says on Jun 1, 2009, 08:14:

Don't know if mentioned here yet since haven't read the posts but can you also sell a pre-nup that you have several family members on your side as well that you need to look out for.

and if he/she won't sign then next...

Now we got the LFL so who needs to watch the NFL?

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nine inch nails says on Jun 1, 2009, 08:29:

"kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on May 31, 2009, 01:49 (today): flag

I think a pre-nup should be sign if one of the parties have a massive amount of money and the other one none, but for it is not worth it for someone who has just own a house and a car,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kat I disagree because everything is reletive. If someone worked extremely hard at a low wage for many years for a modest house, car then those belongings are as precious to him /her as a Mansion is to someone who inherited them and never worked for them. It would hurt the low wage earner more then the Wealthy person so in my opinion, its is worth it, a Pre-Nup.His or Her loss will hurt more then a loss to a wealthy person and he should protect them. Also, what is perceived as wealthy in one country may not be in another country."

-------------------------------------------------- NIN's new post:

Me three. Even a nice car could be worth some serious bucks. Some risk with bringing someone to the US and giving it a chance to work out but if it doesn't no big heartache and if marriage over in 2 yrs. or less no way I should have to support them for eons.

The facts:

60% of children born in US out of wedlock.

Greater than 50% of all marriages inside US fail.

Those odds even worse than the stock market.

Now we got the LFL so who needs to watch the NFL?

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miamimike says on Jun 1, 2009, 08:41:

9 inch nails-theDivorce rate between 2 americans who speak the same langauge, share the same culture is around 6 out of ten will divorce in 7 years or less. Obvoiusly the rate between two who don't share a common langauge and culture will be much higher. I'm willing to bet 9 out of ten foreign spouse marriges will fail.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Saltador says on Jun 1, 2009, 10:40:

I have to side with the pre-nuppers. I sure as hell will not marry anyone without one, let alone a colombiana.
Since 50% of all marriages fail, it's just common sense.

Marriage = trust and faith in your partner
Pre-nup = insurance just in case

You buy insurance for your house don't you? Does that mean you think your house is inferior or you don't have faith in it, or think it's going to let you down? No. But you're just covering your ass in a worst case scenario. Same with a pre-nup.

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miamimike says on Jun 1, 2009, 10:53:

Saltador-Agree

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 11:51:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 11:54:

miamimike says on Jun 1, 2009, 15:07:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 1, 2009, 11:54 (today): flag

But saying all this, if i get divorce for any reason I would make my new partner ( if i want one again which I doubt ) to sign a pre-nup.


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---------------------------------------------------------------------

"If I wanted one Again which I doubt"---Kat-----I know what you mean on that one--Once was enough for me 15 years ago--No Mas! Nice to live in Peace stress free as a Soltero. I went through the Fiancee Visa ordeal bringing my Latina Bride Here to the USA--Never Never again would I do that. I learned my lesson and learned it well!

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 1, 2009, 16:14:

Here here Miamimike.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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miamimike says on Jun 1, 2009, 18:41:

Robert Jorge says on Jun 1, 2009, 16:14 (today): flag

Here here Miamimike.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

RJ--Join the Fun! I'm sure you could leave a comment or two on this subject with your past experience.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 1, 2009, 22:07:

My ex didn't get much in the divorce. Basically, I had to pay for her attorney and a few thousand extra bucks. It hurt pretty bad financially for me. But could have been much worse in a different State or if I had been married to her for more than 8 or 10 years. I am not looking for sympathy or crap like that when I share this: But the worse part is thinking back at the sacrifices and effort I went through to get my loved one here, and within 2 years I am served divorce papers at my job, ................self deleted. (I may be monitered.) But let's just say she was a little less than faithful.

Anyway, in my case, a prenup wouldn't have done chit. I got off free - compared to most. But that is talking financially. Emotionally, I am still paying and will continue for a long time.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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miamimike says on Jun 2, 2009, 01:47:

RJ--is your ex still around in Florida? These Foreign marriges are hard when you put so much effort & expense(moneywise and mentally) into bringing someone here only to see it end in a short time. My marrige lasted less time then yours and the story was somewhat different. In the End she went back home south of the border. Less then a year later she wanted to restart the relation but I kept the door closed. I wish these guys here on PBH Luck as I know the effort they are putting into it, not easy by any stretch.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 02:08:

El Expatriado says on Jun 2, 2009, 03:33:

Miami Mike said "9 inch nails-theDivorce rate between 2 americans who speak the same langauge, share the same culture is around 6 out of ten will divorce in 7 years or less. Obvoiusly the rate between two who don't share a common langauge and culture will be much higher. I'm willing to bet 9 out of ten foreign spouse marriges will fail."


All the reason NOT to bring them to North America. It may sound odd and a bit sick,but ,if you are really stuck on getting married to a Colombiana, better to keep them in Colombia, without learning English, where thay are dependent on you. Don't bring them to a cold place,away from their family, where they can talk to the local Latinas about the "Great and Generous " divorce laws in their new country. And sure as hell don't get a pre-nuptual in Colombia, as it won't be of any value in North America if she never goes there, and why would you give "Full disclosure" on all your assets to a Colombian lawyer anyway? You might end up in a FARC camp.Better to let them think you are a Tacano.

In Colombia, the marriage falls apart because the guy leaves the woman for someone else (often younger), is a general Mujeriego,or a boozer. In North America, because the women gets bored, and knows she can get the same deal or better financially, and she doesn't have to live with the guy. I know this sounds like a generalization, but take a look at all the people you know, and ask yourself, based on what you have seen, if there is not some truth to this. Of course, you can always find exceptions to the rule.


Anyway, enough of this. It's a sensitive subject for many.

I'm with Robert J.. I sure don't want to be served papers at my work again. I don't think they do it that way in Colombia, and if they do, shae can have half of my $70,000 Condo (the part not owned by the bank, anyway).

The only real reason to get married is if you want kids, anyway. Love, is like life, transitory.
I

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:14:

sanandressi says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:18:

Paul McCartney did good with his divorce. He is worth like 800 million and only had to give her 50 million. More than either will ever spend anyway so who cares? However, numbers wise PHIL COLLINS is the guy who is gonna pay but still if you 500 million and you give up 250 million who cares? Now if you make $3500 a month and you gotta give eup half of that?

Me thinks the divorce rate among the movie stars and singers must be . What do you think.....so why do they even bother with marriage?

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:29:

sanandressi says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:34:

kat1 here in Colorado USA the couple must split half the appreciated value of a property since they were married. For example, you buy a property before you marry and it is valued at $200,000 and 3 years later you marry and it is worth $250,000 then you divorce 3 years later and it is worth $300,000. So you split 50,000 which means somebody pays somebody 25,000. So my lawyers have told me......

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sanandressi says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:35:

Divorce is a horrible thing....but necessary at times...avoid it if you can?

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:48:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 07:08:

miamimike says on Jun 2, 2009, 08:20:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:14 (today): flag

I don't know the law in the USA, but can the other half get part of your properties even though they were purchased before marriage?

------------------------------------------------

Kat--here in Florida, a person won't be on the hook financially for a Condo owned before the marrige but the other person may be entitled to any money, say if the Apartment/house appreciates in Value. They could be entitled to 1/2 the new appreciated valuethat occurred during the marrige.

Kat, here we call a "Flat" a 2 story house which is divided into two seperate apartments, upper and lower.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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miamimike says on Jun 2, 2009, 08:23:

Hey Elmo-- "Should I bring a Suit to Colombia with me?" I picked out a Nice Red Zoot for you from a Yonkers NYC Clothier. Let me know how ya like it.


miamimike says on Jun 1, 2009, 10:47: flag

Fashionable Zoots--I can see Elmo in this Hot Red Beauty! Nice for BQA !

http://www.elpachuco.com/

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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scumbuster says on Jun 2, 2009, 12:58:

sanandressi says on Jun 2, 2009, 06:34 (today): flag

kat1 here in Colorado USA the couple must split half the appreciated value of a property since they were married. For example, you buy a property before you marry and it is valued at $200,000 and 3 years later you marry and it is worth $250,000 then you divorce 3 years later and it is worth $300,000. So you split 50,000 which means somebody pays somebody 25,000. So my lawyers have told me......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does that mean if you get divorced today and your home is worth 40% less she owes you half of that??? lol

Lord Acton: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 2, 2009, 16:13:

Tabla: "Darloup mentions la sociedad conyugal as a principle of Colombian matrimonial law."

Yep, details being available here: http://zembook.com/asesorjuridico/2009/04/03/la-sociedad-conyugal/

Only legal in Colombia!

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Robert Jorge says on Jun 2, 2009, 21:12:

Scumbuster, actually the answer to your question is yes. I know a guy who was going through a terrible divorce in Georgia. His wife insisted on all kinds of things, including a house in Atlanta. He agreed to everything but the house. She wanted half of it's value. Well, he said "fine, then you owe me $250,000. The house was bought for $1,000,000, it now appraises for $500,000. You owe me $250,000." She became a little less aggressive after that.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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El Expatriado says on Jun 4, 2009, 03:55:

The rules on splitting appreciation in assets are the same everywhere. The only differenc is, if you buy a house after your marraige, the sale value gets split 50/50 no matter who puts the most in for it. If you buy it before, the marriage, it's all yours.
Funny how moast Latinas, no matter how uneducated they are, know this instinctively, and want you to buy a house after you are married, with thier name on the lease.

The only difference to this, is in Canada, where the judge may follow this rule (unless she owes you money because your net value goes down, in which case he / she will over-rule), there is the additional requitrement where you will have to pay avery large alimony to support the "poor uneducated lady who left her country under duress",, regardless of any Pre-Nup, and if there are kids, you will have to pay at least halfof your monthly earnings to see them a couple times a week (if you are lucky).

So sure don't take them out of Colombia. And don't sign any pre-nups if you mean you have to give full disclosure, whether in Colombia or your home country. Say your net worth was $2million (not that mine is, just an example). What the heck will the Barrio girl think when she hears this? She'll be naggin you everyday to by houses or all her extended family and put all thier kids through Uni,etc., etc. Her conviction that you are Bill Gates will be confirmed in her own mind. And if you tell your Colombian lawyer that, chances are, he'll call up his FARC cousin, and you'll be behind wire before you know it.

No it's better to be qiuite as a church mouse, and keep your money well hiddden and out of the way, in a different coutry. Forget thepre-nups. Not worth the paper they are written on.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:16:

goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:23:

Dont get married to colombianas!
Oh! No, Kat! Now, what???

It don't matter, colombian or other.
Everyone, either gender, with substantial assets, should sign pre-nupts....

That sounds good, Kat: If you don't trust 'em, then don't marry 'em, but.... people will turn on you for the most unforseen reasons.

I had a pre-nupt the first time.
The second time,... no.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:25:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:35:

goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:40:

Come on, now kat1.
Let's not be CONDESCENDING.
You're gettin 'up there'.... jajjj.... if that is your photo and I think it is...
You're esposo could turn on you any day now, ...
Thinking about those Milliones de Colombianitas MUYYYYY Jovenes.

It could be a whole 'nother James Bond movie.. lol

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:47:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:56:

goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:56:

AY-YAY-YAY!
________

And, thanks, Dear Abbey!
lol

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 05:00:

carramba :)

Also he worship his kids and he won't do anything stupid to hurt them.

Did I tell you we have been married for 20 years!!!

G_S SAYS

"You're gettin 'up there'.... jajjj.... if that is your photo and I think it is...
You're esposo could turn on you any day now, ...
Thinking about those Milliones de Colombianitas MUYYYYY Jovenes.


And that is why the more I read some comments from some members on PBH the more I love and think how lucky I am with my husband. I think that statement is a shallow way of thinking..

If you have an attractive, fun loving wife, a beautiful home, beautiful kids, why do you want to risk that? I would say only if something is lacking in that person life.


This is a blog my husband wrote about one of his stay in Colombia, I posted ages ago.



http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/looking-for-rain/

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goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 05:21:

that's right.
and, I'm NOT wishing any misfortune on your part, kat.
I'm only saying, that... we always also live with THE UNKNOWN

Have a good day.... and I would sign a pre-nupt with Shakira ANY DAY!
jajjaja. .. jus as most guys on pbh would.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 06:06:

miamimike says on Jun 4, 2009, 08:29:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 04:25 (today): flag



"When you get married it is obvious any couple wants to buy a house to live there and raise their future family ( kids) "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kat, for many Americans who marry Colombianas, its their second(or 3rd, 4th or 5th ect) marriage and they do not want Kiddies. In our family, there were several couples who did not desire to have kids, my sis and I are two, several other cousins took the same route. Several friends outside the family also chose not to have children.Some rent, some bought their own houses, no set rule really.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 09:01:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 10:59:

tabla says on Jun 4, 2009, 13:26:

I really don´t think it´s a question of not trusting your future wife. It´s foolish to imagine divorce is impossible in your case. Therefore it is sensible to have a plan in place. When divorce happens, in most cases you cannot at that time trust your wife to take from you any less than her full legal entitlement. Trusting her on the date of marriage doesn´t help when that time comes. Asking for prenup tells her you are intelligent. Some women like that in a man.

I also write for the archive.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 4, 2009, 13:47:

goin_south says on Jun 4, 2009, 22:32:

I agree with you, Darloup.... this time (second time ) around

First time.... good thing I had the pre-nupt! lol, now.

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El Expatriado says on Jun 5, 2009, 05:44:

Trust has to be earned, by many years of getting to know a person. When 2 people are the same age, culture,spealk the same language, have the same socio-economic background, and values, it can take many years.Where these differences are immense, it can take a life time . Some of us just have a life time left.

For a gringo , of any age, going into a marriage or long term relationship with someone from any stratum of society in Colombia with blind faith and trust is total madness and stupidity.

You may not be interested in a relationship with a gringo who has these types of issue, Kat, but believe me, there are plenty out there that do. And the gringo would be stupid to express their feelings about this in true life.

Not all of us can have the fairy-tale love life you and Darloup profess. And some of us don't like the odds (much worse than getting in a car wreck and have your house burn down) Some of us have to settle for second best. But believe it or not, (it may be hard too believe) many of us who do, are totally happy and content and at peace with ourselves.

Also Darloup, if your marraige goes, she'll take all that and the insurance won't do you any good.

Anyway, If your willing to put your balls on the line, like that,your a better man than me, you win. Like I said, I'm content with my life your content with yours, kat is content with hers, so who cares?

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El Expatriado says on Jun 5, 2009, 06:05:

By the way,Kat, I think that G-S guy is an asshole for posting what he did. I think you are very young and attractive, and must be a star catch for staying with your husband for twenty years, but I still can't agree with you philisophically, because I have dotally different life experiences, something hat I don't think you could comprehend or even empathize with (unlike many female friends and relatives I have who can)

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El Expatriado says on Jun 5, 2009, 06:29:

Kat Said:

I put in capitals "their kids" are you talking about her kids with another man? if so If you married her was because maybe you accepted the responsabily of taking care of her and her kids. yo can/t back down afterwards, yo took that decision not her.

The issue is not whether the guy is commited to taking care of the kid(s) whether theirs or hers from a previous marriage, or whether or not he believes in marriage till death do us part. It's whether she believes in these issues, or whether she suddenly changes her mind, when she sees that she can have her cake and eat it too.. leave him foer whatever reason, and still have him support her and the kids. Thats how thee one-sided justice system workas in Canada. And you can't reluy on "picking the right person",as insanity can occur at anytime in a long term relationship, and one day you could wake up with the person next to you being very differemntfrom the one you knew before. I think Darloup, at least , is honest with his feelings on this subject, saying he is in "a minority" and "probably a sucker".

Yes, believe it or not, I believe in total commitment and death do us part, but no , I really don'thave the balls on the chopping block trust that the other person has these same altruistic values, like Darloup does. I guess I can never feel "true Love". Such is life.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 5, 2009, 06:54:

goin_south says on Jun 5, 2009, 11:01:

btw El Expatriado....
kat1 already whip'd my ass for that comment.
She can take care of herself.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jun 5, 2009, 11:17:

El Expatriado says on Jun 6, 2009, 05:48:

Well maybe I want to have kids in my old age and can't wait around for the women who is 20 years my junior and totally compatib;e with me.. If eveyone waited around forthe perfect person, the human race's population would be zero.

It's no difference and probably better me marrying a young colombiana, taking care of her for the rest of here life, and being the stronger, more dominant partner, in a relationship that never can really be equal, in comparison to some women who are just looking for a sperm donor. At least I am trying to make a go of a relationship. Maybe it will work out in the long run..

Oherwise, I agree with you. there are no kids involved, don't get marrid. I think it was some one on this site who suggested having a relation with, an older, more educated women, to go travelling and going to concerst and events with, (like my Venezuelan friend, who never felt any pressure for marriage, never asked me how much money I had, and invited me to live in her house, instead of trying to get me to buy her one) and a few younger ones on he side to have fun with (if you want)..

Or do something else. Like powder skiing and other adventure sports(I can't stand golf).

Yes, if you get divorced, it changes your perspective on things. Espescially if you are like me and Robert Jorge who were publically humiliated by having the papers swrved at work (and in my case the shared bank account raided and drained away, both ploys by the her lawyer to take a dvantage of the situation and maximize her profits). Anyway, this happened a long time ago,, but it still effects peoples view points on marriage and reationships in general. It's not good to dwell on it, but posts like this brings out strong feelings on this matteer, espescially since there is (lets face it, i may not be the best thing, but is reality) so many Gringos involved i relations with Colombianas on this site.

Anyway, I believe I have said more than enough on this subject, and have to make some serious, constructive posts myself over the next few weeks.

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