Should the government pay?

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 10, 2008, 12:56:

bump

engage brain before opening mouth

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:02:

sorry or is 5 mil millones de pesos...:S anyway it's a lot of money,

engage brain before opening mouth

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Simon says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:02:

Yes, I think they should pay him because it will really motivate other FARC members to do the same to their leaders.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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megs622 says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:02:

why should they have to? His own people killed him. I don't see why the government should pay for an inside job!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:03:

I know Simon, but Jesus we are giving money to killers.... argggg tricky situation

engage brain before opening mouth

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Simon says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:05:

Yeah, I know...but they're killing the bad guys, just like the Colombian military is doing.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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dwr says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:05:

basically reward money like that is usually paid to people who have the inside access. They should definitely pay and make it very public that they paid. FARC will be history in 1 year.

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durito says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:10:

I don't like the idea of paying someone for killing someone else at all, but yes I think they should pay it.

I'm sure many long time FARC members who were forced into their ranks as a teenagers that hear about this will be quite tempted to take out someone else.

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NataliaV says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:11:

I agree with Simon. I mean part of me says hell no they shouldn't pay, but then again Simon may have a point. FARC will be turned inside out by never knowing if they can trust one another completely. They will have to watch their backs from their own team. It will create chaos within FARC.

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CatGirl says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:13:

Kat - Goood question.....but maybe he has already been paid ;))

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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poco says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:17:

Quote: should the government of Colombia pay the killer of Ivan Rios the 5 million dollar recompense?

Yes and they should also give legal status to stay in the U.S. if asked. Personally, I'd ask.

Working great in the phillipines. I think someone recently received 25 million but I'm not sure of the amount. update: Drats, only 10 million. oh well, there goes the beach front house in Dubai.

.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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jorgegdiaz says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:18:

Do we risk to blatanly become a country of mercenaries, What`s the outcome in similar cases around the world?

After all this is over (hopefully) what`s going to happen with all soldiers/policeman/comandos in service? are they going to be tempted to become mercenaries?. We must remember that those people, in spite they are heroes, do not have much education. They are somehow easily impressionable. Seeing an act of rewarding an assasination with cash will send them a powerful but morally wrong message.

On the other hand not paying will backfire. FARC will use that to discredit the goverment and likely no more fleeing FARC ranks is going to occur. Guerrillas wanting to leave won`t trust a goverment that doesn`t award what promises.

My idea: give the guy the $ but try him first for whatever he has pending with justice. Even if he decides to get under "justicia & paz". I think that way it sends correct messages to everybody.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

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azunoman says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:19:

As I understand it the money was actually 5 million dollars US and was offered by the United States Department of Justice...and I suspect they will pay...Reyes was the same deal...

Now that they are getting cornered by Ecuador, Valenzuela armies and now talk of Panama border getting beefed up and Correa/Chavez distancing themselves from the FARC the likely hood of the FARC turning on each other just gets better and better.

And with what style, he didn't bring the hand ouf the jungle, one could live without a hand, but a head or lungs, heart etc. which could be DNA tested works also folks! But a head is faster....

Ready, Fire, Aim

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dwr says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:20:

We are already paying 350 million a year I believe is the figure to go after the farc. 5 million a head for the leaders is a bargain.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:28:

No.
Blood money is barbaric and savage. The whole idea of recompensa/bounty is horribly wrong.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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megs622 says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:34:

man, this just says something about the farc when their own people turn on each other. Just shows that something is up anyways within the group. We don't even have to go in anymore and offer a bounty. They'll do it themselves!!

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dwr says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:34:

Blood Money is human nature.

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billyb says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:34:

I'm with Simon. Pay him the money so more will follow suit. Maybe add a bonus if they bring the head insted.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:38:

The government is already paying lots of bounties for information that leads to the killing of FARC members (ie. Reyes) so why the heck shouldn't they also pay for someone willing to cut out the middle man and do the dirty work directly?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a judicial process about the other crimes someone like Rios' killer might have done, but I think there should be a clear "get out of jail free" card for killing a FARC Secretariat member.

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azunoman says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:41:

"Pay him the money so more will follow suit. Maybe add a bonus if they bring the head instead"

(bell ringing, cart creaking) Bring out your dead!

Ready, Fire, Aim

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billyb says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:42:

In this global economy it's all about outsourcing, so why not this?

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adrimm says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:44:

My first impulse is no, that at best he should have well-publicized access to support in order to re-integrate into civilian society, counseling, what ever education he desires, maybe down the road an opportunity to take the reigns in very publically recognized program to re-integrate fighters who leave farc. Make him a non-military success story. Give him influence and power to help inspire those that are considering leaving the organization that they can have a life outside.

However, governments encourage and then reward their own soldiers when they kill enemies... that is the essence of military when it comes down to conflict. So from that standpoint my position might be inconsistent.

What I think will happen: he will get $$ from someone, and then continue a militaristic life under than banner of someone else... and if people leave farc it may not be for the right reasons but for the chance of a quick payday.

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kalder says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:50:

Ultimately, it's going to help save lives.

Cheap at half the price.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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kalder says on Mar 10, 2008, 13:56:

"They should give him the 30 denarius"

That's the second 'allusion-to-Christ-prompted-by-death-of-FARC-member' I've read today!

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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adrimm says on Mar 10, 2008, 14:00:

Will it saves lives if a trained killer kills on the wrong side in order get paid? What if he gets bored of not killing afterwards?

Alot of these people (on all sides) have done this since their teens, thinking that a schwack of money is going to be a long-term solution for them to move successfully into regular society is totally unrealistic.

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msaucey says on Mar 10, 2008, 14:15:

They should pay... Period.... If they decide not to at this point then it will look appear to anybody, including FARC members that FARC is correct and that the Colombian Gov't doesn't live up to it's promises....

I don't care how we get rid of them (FARC/ELN)... One by one, in a group, doesn't matter... Whatever it takes to exterminate the trash...

I'd say, give him the 5 million and let him reside in Venezuela.... =) Justice all around is served...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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azunoman says on Mar 10, 2008, 14:18:

"What if he gets bored of not killing afterwards?"

Bring the killer to justice. My impression after my visit is that Colombians are for the rule of law. The FARC is on the other side of the law and should be dealt with not only harshly but with great enthusiasm and if that means cutting off their heads, then off with their heads.

Ready, Fire, Aim

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aNdReSk says on Mar 10, 2008, 14:51:

Give them the money then throw them in jail for life O_o

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azunoman says on Mar 10, 2008, 14:54:

I understand the US is expanding Guantanamo as I am sure anyone that does turn on their own (FARC) will want a safe place to count their money.

Ready, Fire, Aim

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Wastelandlive says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:04:

To state the obvious...

The decision about whether to pay the reward or not was made when the reward was offered. Go ahead: pretend you're having a moral crises, and refuse to pay.

See how many people are motivated by your "rewards" in the future.

Hello!

Wasteland

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cali373 says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:16:

Yes pay it unless the ransom demand specifically said unless you are a member of an illegal armed group.

It also might also, encourage others to do the same with their commanders. He did indeed desert and surrender, so according to Uribistas, he is eligible for the peae and justice law.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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pedro says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:25:

http://www.eltiempo.com/participacion/foros/default/un_foro.php?id_rec...

que nota!

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:19:

simon makes a good point. pay and motivate others...

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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bamacellist says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:57:

Wastelandive hit the nail on the head. The decision to pay is an inevitable prerequisite to making the offer. Unless there is something explicity precluding payment under these circumstances, they have an obligation to pay and no honest way to escape it.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

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podborski says on Mar 10, 2008, 18:13:

hell yes pay it and look forward to paying another $25 mil as asap

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chrispej says on Mar 10, 2008, 20:06:

Yeah, they should pay him.......after he serves his sentence for his crimes...

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billyb says on Mar 10, 2008, 20:06:

Below is how the voting is going in El Pais newspaper.

¿CONSIDERA QUE EL ESTADO DEBERíA PAGAR LA RECOMPENSA AL GUERRILLERO QUE ASESINó AL COMANDANTE DE LAS FARC 'IVáN RíOS'?

Sí. 82%
No. 17%

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 10, 2008, 20:12:

Presidente Uribe en Riohacha:
“Las autoridades judiciales son las que deciden pagos de recompensas‿

A su llegada a Riohacha para presidir un consejo de seguridad, el mandatario de los colombianos saludo a los indígenas wayúu apostados en las playas de la capital guajira. Foto / Jorge Real ÿlvarez
Las autoridades como la fiscalía y los jueces son las que deben decidir el pago de recompensa por la muerte del guerrillero de las Farc, alias ‘Iván Rojas’, dijo en Riohacha, La Guajira, el presidente de la República, ÿlvaro Uribe Vélez, en el Consejo de Seguridad que presidió ayer en esta ciudad.

El Mandatario de los colombianos aseguró que el gobierno debe esperar lo que diga la autoridad judicial, entre ella la Fiscalía que ya está investigando el caso.


Precisó, que se debe saber en qué estado se encontraba el bloque de las Farc que comandaba Iván Ríos, cuál era el grado de amenaza, de presión de sus integrantes, cuál era la situación de riesgo, para así medir la proporcionalidad entre el riesgo y la acción que cometió la persona que está reclamando la recompensa.


El Presidente explicó que la recompensa siempre ha sido una política seria de su gobierno, pero en el caso particular del guerrillero asesinado por uno de sus compañeros se requiere necesariamente de una definición jurídica.


Argumentó, que el Estado de Derecho estimula las informaciones que permiten capturar a los delincuentes, pero no puede hacerlo en casos de masacres.


En el Consejo de Seguridad, el Presidente de la República estuvo acompañado de los Altos Mandos Militares como el general Freddy Padilla de León, comandante de las Fuerzas Militares; el general Mario Montoya, comandante del Ejército Nacional; el general Jorge Ballesteros, comandante de la Fuerza Aérea; y el almirante Guillermo Barrera, comandante de la Armada Nacional.

Participaron también, el gobernador de La Guajira, Jorge Pérez Bernier y el del Magdalena, Omar DíazGranados; además de los alcaldes de Riohacha, Uribia, Manaure, San Juan del Cesar, Villanueva, Urumita, Fonseca, Maicao, entre otros.

“En La Guajira no hay grupos paramilitares‿: Uribe Vélez


El presidente de la República, ÿlvaro Uribe Vélez, aseguró en esta ciudad, que en la zona de la Alta Guajira no están operando grupos paramilitares, respondiendo así a una denuncia formal de la representante a la Cámara, Orsinia Polanco, en el marco de un Consejo de Seguridad.

Enfatizó que “grupos paramilitares no. La palabra paramilitar se utilizaba en Colombia para denominar a las bandas criminales particulares organizadas con el propósito de combatir a la guerrilla‿.

Dijo que, “allá lo que hay es una banda de narcotraficantes, que están armados, y estamos haciendo todos los esfuerzos para perseguirlos y derrotarlos.

De otro lado, el presidente de la República, ÿlvaro Uribe Vélez, confirmó que el gobierno colombiano ofrece 30 millones de pesos de recompensa a la o las personas que informen sobre el paradero del periodista secuestrado hace 20 días, Mario Puello, en el kilómetro 35 en la vía que comunica a Santa Marta con Riohacha.

Precisó el Mandatario de los colombianos que el tema del secuestro del periodista Mario Alfonso Puello, así como el de Jhon Romero y Maikol Mendoza, fue tratado en el Consejo de Seguridad regional y se ordenó a las Fuerzas Militares del país investigar en poder de quiénes se encuentran.

Explicó, que a pesar de que sigue la mejoría en el tema de seguridad, en La Guajira existe preocupación por el secuestro de las personas que todavía no han podido rescatar; además de la presencia de grupos de las Farc y el Eln, y algunas bandas que se dedican al narcotráfico.

Anotó Uribe Vélez que el gobierno colombiano hará todos los esfuerzos para devolverle la tranquilad a los ciudadanos de los departamentos de La Guajira, el Cesar y el Magdalena.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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poco says on Mar 10, 2008, 20:34:

Quote: should the government of Colombia pay the killer of Ivan Rios the 5 million dollar recompense?

Just to verify,, Colombia is NOT paying the money. The U.S. pays.

How many are on the list,, how are things going? Well, here is the link,, complete with big RED X's. on their photos and moved to the "BROUGHT TO JUSTICE COLUMN, Notes on some say "reward paid".

Rios name: Manuel Munoz-Ortiz
Reyes name: Luis Edgar Devia-Silva

I noticed another X'd out photo posted today. He was arrested. Looks like photos are top to bottom, left to right.

I've got to give the US Department of State a hand. Nice website.

http://www.state.gov/p/inl/narc/rewards/c13369.htm

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:19:

The US owes him the money. The whole point of the reward was to have the guy(s) arrested or killed. My guess is arrest and extradition would have been preferred. The reward was a motivator for a cohort to rat the guy(s) out. It isn't like it was expected that an average Colombian campesino was going to see the guy(s) walking around a village and call the local DAS. If the reward is denied - I doubt one more FARC scumbag will be turned in or killed by his own troops. If it is paid - like Simon said, more people will turn these guys in as a way to get out clean, start new lives with some money, and the FARC will quickly not exist.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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miamimike says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:26:

Only Person(terrorist) I don't think the reward money will work on is OBL; currently its went unclaimed at $25 Million USD. He is protected by a band of Very Loyal followers for whom Money is not the main objective in this lifetime. In Latin American, $25 Million would move heaven and earth and even Jesus Christ and his Mother Mary would be laid bare for $25 Million, actually for much less,,,much much less,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:32:

It doesn't matter really, but my guess is that the reason OBL didn't get turned for $25 million usd, is because he is long dead. But if I am wrong, he definitely isn't a significant factor anymore - except in a symbolic nature - which is a moot point. (wouldn't matter, dead or alive .... legend, etc.)

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:37:

The reason OBL isn't dead for that bounty is that there's nobody in his immediate circle of protectors who believes for a second that the US would actually pay up. Between that, and the prospect of eternal damnation, it's a tough sell.

Luckily for us, Colombians have an entirely more pragmatic approach.

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miamimike says on Mar 10, 2008, 21:39:

RJ-if someone handed over OBL's Head, it would be V-E-R-Y Big news,,,symbolically, he is the very face of Terrorism worldwide. Would it stop Terrorism, No, but it would thow their timing off,,, Case in Point, when Saddam H was caught and later executed did it stop Insurgent Attacks in Iraq? No,,,, it only got much worse, but if OBL was caught and his Head served on a Platter, it would remove the air of Invincibility surrounding AQ,,,A Real time analogy was when Evander Holyfield dropped Mike Tyson,,,it was the beginning of the end for Tatoo Boy Mikey

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 10, 2008, 22:29:

I do not disagree at all M.M. When I said "significant factor", I meant in a way that would change anything right now. He is an icon - but I doubt he has any direct influence - like gives orders to far-off terrorists - anymore. Because, my guess is that he is dead. But dead or alive, he is an icon.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Catfish35 says on Mar 11, 2008, 05:09:

If the gummit offered the money then they MUST pay. But he did kill people for 16 years so give him the money and only him and throw him jail for the rest of his life!
Hows that for saving face and doubling the piss off by adding a little torture!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Simon says on Mar 11, 2008, 16:52:

"A Real time analogy was when Evander Holyfield dropped Mike Tyson,,,it was the beginning of the end for Tatoo Boy Mikey"

Wasn't that Buster Douglas?

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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billyb says on Mar 11, 2008, 18:20:

Interior minister Carlos Holguin announced that they would pay him the reward.

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