Shooting in Medellin, Colombia.

toneloc24 says on Jun 13, 2007, 10:54:

From where? US military? Colombian military???

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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aztec says on Jun 13, 2007, 11:34:

US military Retired and living in Medellin. I believe he is a retired US Col. Reluctant to give much more data for fear of endangering his life.

He, allegedly, is there solely for retirement purposes and there is no other ulterior motives for his being in Colombia. From the little information I have, that appears to be an accurate observation.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 16, 2007, 14:03:

here we go again..... gunfire in medellin...i mean, that's something new.

a dr. friend of mine works as a surgeon in an emergency clinic down town. every night the stab wounds, muggings, shooting victims litter the place and there's no end. ain't no police protection for these folks. everybody thought it got better...not in the hood.

dw

dwmte

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Lostgringo says on Jun 16, 2007, 16:55:

Shooting in Medellin It seems strange to me that there is no information on this and that even here at PBH there is little interest on this thread. I have lived here in Medellin for 9 months now and in Bogota for 8 months last year. In all that time I never saw any stabbings, fights etc. etc. I am not saying that it does not happen just that it is not ALL over the place ALL the time. I wonder how the emergency room in Chicago for example compares with Medellin?
As a last note, I would say this guy is a real survivor. I wonder if they found the guys who did this? Likely not, but hope I am wrong.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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aztec says on Jun 16, 2007, 18:32:

Well that is interesting because... ...the incident actually happened. I can prove it but it would expose too much. Will offer one more tid bit of information. He served in the MP's and retired as a Lt Col.

It is interesting that nothing has been in the papers. I can assure you that it has been in the retired military journal.

And to answer your question about Chicago, I would probably feel safer in MED then there or Detroit.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 16, 2007, 18:53:

When the police found a car packed with explosives in an El Tesoro mall parking garage, it was buried in the back pages of El Colombiano as a small item hardly worthy of attention. So it doesn't surprise me that this doesn't get any attention. With a murder rate of more than two a day, the run of the mill shooting or stabbing is not going to get any mention in the media.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 16, 2007, 20:23:

Shootings Murders don't even make the front pages of big city papers in the US, unless the perp or victim is famous or it's REALLY gross. So I'm not surprised that a robbery attempt gone bad in MED didn't make the papers.

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elk says on Jun 17, 2007, 03:43:

Crime in Medellin Most assaults, murders and assassinations go unreported in my opinion. I live in Medellin in one of the safest areas. My source of information is from friends at the local police department.

I live in a new Torre over looking the park. Three days ago I looked down to see two men fighting in the street, one had a machete and the other a metal pipe. Fortunately no one was injured, but bad things do happen even in small towns. The following morning a body was found about 150 yards from my Torre, which may have been related to the aforementioned street fight. The victim had been shot several times.

We also had an assassination about two weeks ago and my police friend was involved in the investigation. He said the person was shot four times in the back of the head and it was suspected to be drug related. The victim had a long history of crime and drugs.

Last November two men and a woman entered my Torre and took one security guard and another employee hostage while forcing their way into several apartments. They apparently preferred breaking into occupied apartments and forcing the occupants to reveal the location of money and valuables according to my police friend. Many people in Colombia prefer keeping cash in their homes rather than use banks to avoid paying tax and the suspects were aware of this.

The same group returned in February, again taking hostages robbing victims of cash and valuables. The police later learned the female had rented and apartment in the Torre which allowed her associates access to the building. She was caught on a video camera loading stolen computers into her vehicle. She is no longer a resident of my building and the police were unable to make an arrest do to insufficient evidence. Apparently the video tape wasn’t sufficient and the victims were afraid to testify in the case.

Both of the above assaults were well planned and the loss was estimated at more than 65,000,000 COP.

I have since installed a special security door and other security measures have been taken by the builder.

I still enjoy living in Medellin and have no plans of moving, but I would recommend being careful and above all never fight back when being robbed. Unlike many cities in the U.S. the “Bad Guys� here only want your money, but they are prepared to take your life if necessary. It’s not worth losing your life over a couple of hundred dollars.

Again, most crimes go unreported and the victims are reluctant to testify. I first thought I was living in a crime free area, but my view is changing and I will act accordingly.

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juancegomez says on Jun 17, 2007, 10:56:

elk "Again, most crimes go unreported and the victims are reluctant to testify. I first thought I was living in a crime free area, but my view is changing and I will act accordingly. "

A lot of crimes go unreported, indeeed, but whether such an area is "crime free" or not is basically a matter of perception though.

Most people in it won't find out about those crimes anyways, even if the victims reported them.

So I'd suppose that more than a few of your neighbors (speaking in terms of the general area, not only the building) may still consider the area to be relatively crime free....and maybe with a somewhat good reason, when compared to other places. But of course, I can't really try to prove that from here (not in Medellín).

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Ctg Bound says on Jun 17, 2007, 11:10:

juancegomez Its the same in every Country.

In the UK for example, just 10% of crimes are reported.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 17, 2007, 11:42:

The city of Medellin has an excellent web site with a lot of information including homicides by barrio. Check it out: http://www.medellin.gov.co/AdmonContenido/EstadisticasGobierno/DocumentosEstadisticasGobierno.htm?idPagina=874

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pedro says on Jun 17, 2007, 12:29:

Shootings I have been in Colombia for one year, total. During that time, two shootings have happened within earshot of where I was.

One was in Manizales, the other in Cartagena. Both were in the early afternoon.

By contrast, I have spent in total 25+ years in Australia, 4 years in Europe and 1 year in Brazil, and never witnessed or heard a shooting on the same block.

que nota!

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Lostgringo says on Jun 17, 2007, 13:18:

Ctg Bound Unreported crime may not be the same in every country (at least in my opinion). Unreported crime is a very large and gray area. For example, the 10% of unreported crime in the UK may not be the same as the 10% of unreported crime in Medellin for example. I think it is difficult to compare the both on one general level. For instance, I doubt very much that allot of robberies go unreported in the UK as they do here. Here in Medellin it seems like murdering someone else is no no big deal, or at least no big cause for concern. The big difference it seems is the way in which the police investigate these incidents, especially murder and the available witnesses.

I think (IMHO) that comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Hell, if someone beats and robs me in Canada I am going to report it. The police are going to do a full investigation. Here in Medellin it is hardly worth bringing to their attention. Do the police here know what Forensic Science is?

A friend once told me about a murder that took place about 10 feet from where we were having a drink. It was a drive by shooting. I asked him if they ever caught the guy. His response was, "he was a bad guy." "Beat his wife and kids and one day he stole a cell phone from a teenager." I doubt if the police ever really investigated. So the key here that in Colombia "if the guy was 'a bad guy' then he deserved to be killed." End of story. Kind of like an Old West Justice theme.

Lastly, the police do not control or have allot of influence on the people who live around me in my area of Medellin. The Vigilantes control most everything here. If you step over the line and it is serious..POP POP POP!

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 17, 2007, 14:07:

What barrio do you live in may I ask?

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Lostgringo says on Jun 17, 2007, 22:51:

UT what barrio Medellin

welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Ctg Bound says on Jun 18, 2007, 04:45:

Lostgringo 90% of crime goes un-reported in the UK not 10%, those numbers are from the UK goverment.

I would agree with you that more seriouse crime goes un-reported in Colombia compared with developed Countries than the UK for example. House robberies are reported to claim insurance in the UK, because most houses have insurance, muggings are the same as Colombia in the Cities at least, very few are reported, which is no differant in the UK.

I must have missed something the elreydelostrolls UT returned???

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Ctg Bound says on Jun 18, 2007, 05:00:

aztec It might be more usefull telling the board where he lives than about his military record.

I know foreigners in most of the neighbourhoods in Medellin, but many of them I don't know there full history as I have never asked.

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Lostgringo says on Jun 18, 2007, 06:39:

Ctg Bound Please give us the URL to support your 90% stand on unreported crime in the UK. Exactly what kind of crime are you talking about? Here is an exerpt done by one study in the UK

"Did you report the crime? (Asked of all those who have been victims of each crime)

Yes Reported it

Fraud 96%
Burglary/theft 94%
Violent assault 86%
Mugging 81%
Rape 58%welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

90% of ALL crime in the UK goes unreported is a pretty big claim. The real problem comparing the UK with Colombia is the lack of real good data in Colombia to do the comparison. Of course in the long run statistics has often been desribed as "Lies and More Lies" by many.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Ctg Bound says on Jun 18, 2007, 07:39:

Lostgringo Its not my claim, but the UK goverments, the 90% figure is ALL crime, obviously the less seriouse the crime the greater the percentage of it that was un-reported.

I have no URL, I don't doubt there is information on the web if you look for it, but I read some of the report, that my friend had, but here is the bakground:

It was widely claimed by the UK general population/media etc. that the official crime figures in the UK, did not match what was happening in real life.

The UK goverment initiated an independant invesigation to counter what they thought was scare mongering by the media and other groups. This investigation took several years and was the biggest investigaton of its kind in the UK, the people chosen to do the investigation, were judges, magistrates, Police etc., people who have experience in day to day criminality.

When the report finaly came out it was the complete opposite of what the goverment thought that they were going to get, the report was mostly hushed up.

The report was published in March/April 2005, so if you wish to find information on the web, there is your starting point.

As it happens the report matches my personnel experience of the amount of things I saw that were not being reported, in my old job in London, I used to come into contact with a lot of people, I kept a notebook on muggings, attacks of people in the streets, mostly minor attacks (what I class as minor at least, just cuts and bruises), virtualy none were ever reported according to the people I used to talk to, which had no reason to lie. I kept the note book just to see many crimes were not getting reported.

I expect that there were many other people who had problems that never even got mentioned, but a lot of people used to talk to me due to my job, I wasn't looking for information, it just came to me, so I generally knew what was going on better than most, so much so that if people wanted to know something, they used to say why don't you ask D....... he will probably know.

I am not comparing the UK goverment with the Colombian one, I am just pointing out that most crimes are not reported in other Countries as well.

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lochdhu says on Jun 18, 2007, 07:50:

Too bad Colombia doesn't post arrests stats online like other states and cities do, Here in Boise, they publish all the arrests and charges online everyday with mug shots, and is a great indicator for crime in cities.

Does the Uk do this?

here is an example of some great arrest photos here in Boise, free entertianment for us locals





Enjoy!

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Ctg Bound says on Jun 18, 2007, 07:57:

lochdhu I doubt it, the UK is way liberal and they would be infringing the rights of the person etc.

Sometimes the odd photo is leaked out, generally connected to child molestors, but its rare, I haven't lived in the UK since 2001, but I don't think its changed on that front.

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dwmte7 says on Jun 18, 2007, 16:48:

reporting is a no-no... welllll....back in the late 80's-early 90's, one of my neighbors in poblado visited me in my home. he was with a friend (primo?) of his. while visiting my home, this guy steals my sony handy cam ($950.00) also a panasonic shaver ($75.00) I didn't realize the shaver was gone until the following morning. but i realized the camera was gone, immediately. I called my cunado (brother-in-law) the next morning and asked him to come over. my b-i-l was very street smart, from envigado, and i used him frequently when mybusiness took me into dangerous barrios i.e. nikitau or triste.

now the neighbor who ripped me off was a wealthy guy who didn't need the camera just a prick colombian act. my cunado told me never notify the police because it starts a 'range war' but that i had to whack the guy...i told carlos (my cunado) i'm not gonna kill someone for a thousand dollar camera, to which he replied, 'if you don't, you'll have no respect in the barrio. well i don[t think the word barrio applied to the area in which i lived in poblado, suffice it to say it was an area of the very rich. my home had 500 mtrs under roof (5000sq ft) and 800 mtrs of garden. needless to say, no 'po folks' livin around here.

well, for the following year, everytime i saw this neighbor, he was so scared, he never knew when it was coming; today? tomorrow? or when. i just let him worry.

as for shootings, i saw one guy killed by a sicario right in front of my face. on another occassion in barrio triste, some punk pulled out a gun and shot one of the old men who carried lumber around in the wood bodega area. (I manufactured furniture). this old guy had no shoes, ripped clothing and clearly wasn't worth a 'contract'. he was apparently used for target practice. in both cases, when the police arrived, "noone saw nothing" kinda like "what shooting?"

some years later when i had my bar/restaurant in llano grande, my neighbor, who owned a vivero, shot his mayor domo on the street in front of my bar. when the police arrived, a man named manuel, head of the 4th brigade, arrived, he asked my neighbor what happened. with the guy laying dead on the street blood running down hill. the guy answered that the worker had insulted him...to this, manuel said, "well, we can't be havin that, now can we?" then manuel asked for a couple of beers and the two drank beer for a while and finally manuel and his men left. end of the investigation. the body laid their til about 7:00 pm when the family finally came and got it. here again the status quo prevails. the rich get away with murder and the poor/workers get screwed.

dw

dwmte

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juancegomez says on Jun 18, 2007, 18:49:

dwmte7 Cases like the one you've mentioned are gross examples of how wealth and status can indeed make crimes invisible, to put it lightly.

But then come the cases where non-rich can also get away with murder and the poor don't necessarily need to get screwed in order for that to happen.

My point is that impunity for most murders, and far too many other crimes, is pretty high in Colombia and I don't think that all the killers have to classify as "rich" and all the victims as "poor".

It's a generalized problem, made worse by cases such as that one but also by others of a different kind.

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Frank Rizzo says on Jun 18, 2007, 20:12:

dw, i know what you mean !!! colombia is a nervous country!!

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tejasmarcos says on Jun 18, 2007, 20:21:

loch that is funny $#%&. wish i could see a few of my old mugshots from the young and just got caught years.......

* i'd bet a dime to a dollar that both pics above were dui's..... oh #$&*, i just blew into a breathalizer and did not have to!!!!! booooo hooooooo......

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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toneloc24 says on Jun 18, 2007, 21:22:

Question about the 800 lb gorilla in the room? Is all the curiosity about this mainly because the victim was a foreigner? Should the local news provide special reporting about him, over other local situations that they choose not to report either?

I mean, I feel bad for the dude and all, but he CHOSE to move to Colombia, where violent crimes happen often and are largely unreported. Therefore, his treatment is not exceptional. In a robbery attempt, UNLESS you have a gun, just give up the goods and walk away with your life. What's more valuable?

Without knowing anything further since the OP hasn't provided any further details, I would venture to guess that this started out as a robbery, military guy decided to defend himself and resorted to trying to use his training, bad guy with gun actually uses gun. Retired military guy who moved to Medellin for the "climate" gets laid down like any other person in Colombia who decides to test the desperation of an armed robber.

Sad situation, but shit happens in Colombia and largely unreported, foreigner involvement or not. Yet many foreigners continue to believe in lower crime stats nonetheless, as some sort of gauge of safety in Colombia.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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elreydelostrolls says on Jun 18, 2007, 22:32:

I noticed that you went back and edited the name of the barrio. No problema, I was just curious, nothing more. Probably just as well not to give out too much info though.

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Gadianton says on Jun 29, 2007, 19:46:

"I wonder how the emergency room in Chicago for example compares with Medellin?"

Given that Medellin's about twice as violent I'd say it's quieter in Chi.


"And to answer your question about Chicago, I would probably feel safer in MED then there or Detroit."

I somehow doubt you'd feel safer in Chicago.

Detroit has a slightly higher murder rate than Medellin but then it'a a lot smaller. The worst barrio(s) in Medellin are probably worse still.


"In the UK for example, just 10% of crimes are reported."

That's a bit dubious.

Secondly, apart from homicides and kidnappings, the cops in Colombia don't seem to bother recording any other crime.


"Yet many foreigners continue to believe in lower crime stats nonetheless, as some sort of gauge of safety in Colombia."

Good point.

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