She's definitely coming to Canada now...?

Peter (Moderator) says on Jun 24, 2007, 12:10:

Not sure, but they sound like 2 good options. Good luck!

Poor but snappy

vicshere says on Jun 24, 2007, 12:36:

my thoughts are
its people like you , your girlfriend her employer and your father ....who make it very difficult if not impossible for other very very honest Colombians and people from other parts of the world to enter Canada legally
and honestly I hope she gets caught

listo

Cerealkiller says on Jun 24, 2007, 12:37:

I dont know how this works in Canada. But if you were to get married chances are youd have to apply for the fiancee visa in Bogota, as in most places one cannot get married on either a student or a working visa. If embassy found out that she overstayed her visa or was never a student, wouldn't it make it even more difficult? Just a thought, as I say, I am not familiar with canadian visa procedures.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

oldbongo says on Jun 24, 2007, 12:47:

oldbongo is with vic.
shame on you.
do it the right way, like the rest of us.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:07:

Vicshere, you are insulting and unhelpful, and you have an inherent bias against me. I will ignore you, you seem to want to jide me, but I'm above that.

She WON'T overstay her visa, she DOES NOT want to ever live in the damn country Canada, and she can feasibly will STAY in the language school, considering she works in the IT field she is eligible to work for my dad. One of the reasons she wants to come to Canada to visit me is to IMPROVE HER ENGLISH So it's an honest way, and honest motives, s

She's a good person and will not do anything wrong. Nor will I.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:12:

...people like you...
vicshere, you are judging me, go screw yourself, you are the type of person who makes personal attacks and judgements against people, and the reason I ever had any problems with this site in the first place. Thank god the moderators took care of our earlier run-in, i applaud them for that. Hopefully they can deal with this one.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:23:

And by the fucking way...

It is people like me and my girlfriend, who stay the given lengths of visas, who are the victims of people coming to canada as tourists and then overstaying. How can we develop together as human beings if she cannot visit me in Canada? How can she improve her English in my country, meet my family, etc... if she is denied visas because EVERYONE ELSE STAYS, but not her...

So to imply I am (let alone my dad) the culprit and the reason colombians have it 'hard' is so insulting it's not true. Too bad I didn't meet a girl from Mexico, they get free entry into Canada, all they need is a passport... but no, she's colombian

I would expect more support from people on this site who, I'LL bet, would love their relatives and friends in Colombia to visit them. I am NOT talking about doing anything illegal, nor shady. She'd be given a visa, stay the length of time, return, and voila. If we don't get the visa, well, too bad, but at least we tried.

Canada is NOT that interesting anyway, no offense, she's coming to see me and improve her english, damn restrictions, we should work to overcome them. That's all I'm doing, and doing it legally.

bradenmiami says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:44:

You publicly post a plan, based on certain levels of dishonesty, ask for public opinion, and don't want to be judged? What a fucking stupid thing to do!

I am with Vic on this, the reason it is SO hard for honest a good people to get Visas is because of "creative" people who are always trying to twist and bend the rules. Pay for her tourist visa fees, get engaged or get maried.... Sit in line and wait like the rest of us who did it the right way.

The "lovemedellin website" is a piece of crap made by some moron who has only been to Medellin once...you'd be better off reading the Lonely Planet advice from a guy who never even came here!

griffbos says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:50:

I htink our first option is your best but I would suggest she stay in the language school it will help here with her english longterm, that is my opinion on this

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:51:

This plan was formulated for me by advice i received on PBH. I was encouraged by various people NOT to do it the tourist way if I could do it another way, which I can. There is NO dishonesty here.

Vicshere for some reason took it personally that i left the site a long time ago and is making me pay for it by being extremely annoying.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 13:58:

to answer bradenmiami... 2% get let in as tourists in Canada. Where is the logic in that? So obviously there is no line, there is a flat out denial. I will try and get her in as a student of english language for 3 months, or as an employee of my dad for a couple months.

Point out the dishonesty in that then, please. I am sick of justifying why i want to see the woman I love in my country, and what benefit it would be to her for 3 months, professionally and personally.

Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 24, 2007, 14:42:

there is an "Ignore" function now, and you can access it in your profile pages, manINred.....

i think that whichever of your options allows her to stay legally with you would be the best one......and if she returns as promised, then there is nothing illegal about that.....

good luck....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Cerealkiller says on Jun 24, 2007, 15:16:

I am sorry ManInred, I understand where youre coming from but I think you should give the embassy the chance to evaluate her case based on true information. You clearly stated you'd get her enrolled in an english course just to get her visa. You also stated that your intention was not for her to actually do the course and just get a refund.
In regards to the working visa, you get her the documentation and then what? will she really work at your dad's company for three months?
You can't come and say there is not something fishy about the way youre trying to get her into canada. Dont get me wrong, Your intentions can be very good natured but I think you know this is not the proper way to do it.
If she has an IT job in colombia, why cant she take 2 weeks off to come see you? Surely, she must have some sort of income. Not all Colombians travel in a fishy manner, not even most of them.
I wish you the best of lucks in trying to get her into canada, but you cant expect people to sympathise with you when you are clearly doing something you know is not entirely transparent.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

podborski says on Jun 24, 2007, 15:36:

If canadian immigration laws were even close to honest, rational or fair then I might agree with vic and brad, but since that is not the case, I say do whatever you can legal or otherwise to get her the visa.

From what I can tell (based on experience plus the many publicised cases of corruption involving immigration officials) the only way to get into Canada legally is to be a Jamaican drug dealer/convicted murderer or an islamic terrorist.

The idea that a law abiding citizen from colombia cannot get a tourist visa simply based on her country of origin is a joke.

(Personally I would be in favour of letting everybody in as long as they didn't have a criminal record and didn't expect any government support. But that's a whole other story and who cares anyway.)

The thing is, I think no matter what you do, it's a real long shot, so don't be making any plans. The only person I know of who got in bought a package deal from a company in bogotá that arranged the school AND the visa. And it was expensive. $15,000 to $30,000 depending on if you included a homestay program (which was a real rip off).

So, I have no idea, but I THINK maybe some of that money goes to grease somebody's palm somewhere, and that's how it works.

I'd be interested to see if you could do it without one of these services, so please give it a shot and let us know if it works, lots of people would like to do it I'm sure.

vicshere says on Jun 24, 2007, 15:59:

excuse me for being honest about talking about what I read
but like some other posters have brought up
you have displayed a dishonest way to bring your girlfriend to Canada.
I didn't write your words you did
I have nothing against you but I do have a problem with people going on the internet trying to find a dishonest way to do something....especially about bring someone into Canada illegally
here's my take if she can't get a legal tourist visa on her own credentials ..then those are the rules ...blame those who have bent every rule to get to Canada illegally who have ruined that for her
but from your comments you just want her in Canada come hell or high water legal or not......have you thought about an accident and going to the hospital I guess she has plenty of money to pay for a couple of days in a Canadian hospital....yea right...so that brings me way back to my original original comments

listo

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 18:08:

Yeah Miguel_Clavo, thanks, Peter kindly brought my attention to it, and I am sure I'll use it soon ;)

CerealKiller, my angst was never directed at you, I appreciate you and everyone else (with one exception) giving me helpful insight. I do plan to do this LEGALLY, I stress that, and the way I have presented my case to poorbuthappy was in very little detail. I will provide some interesting detail that will highlight why the two options I chose actually apply to her:

Her business works with Australian and American clients, so it is increasingly important for her to learn English, one of the main reasons they do not mind her coming to Canada to learn some ENglish, of course with the main reason being to see me, but a very vital reason to improve her English. I could just as well go back down to Colombia, believe you me, I am not opposed to the idea at all, since I love the country! It was fishy, I admit, when I implied that I would withdraw her from the English school, because I am merely a student and cannot afford to pay those high high english school fees, and she's not made of gold. This is especially relevant considering she will learn English much better immersing herself with my family and friends, etc.., etc...

Furthermore before she ever thought of coming to Canada, she brought up the idea of working with my father on a couple of projects, website development and maintainance. Indeed she is already working with someone from the European Union based in England. And my father always needs extra help, and the company he works for as well, so a work visa is a viable possibility.

These extra details change things, don't they. I certainly would not have come up with something like I did above without having these circumstances.

However, even if it still sounds fishy, which I would fail to see why (other than potentially withdrawinng from the school...) I agree with Podborski. Canada's immigration laws are highly hypocritical. I detest them, and am outraged to learn that 2% of Colombians wanting to come to Canada get to, while 98% do not. I have always been in favour of letting anybody without a criminal record into canada as well. Perhaps he understands my frustration too.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 18:12:

As for Vicshere....

Well Vicshere, again you assume the worst. She would come into canada without health/travel insurance??? That never even occurred to me. I stated she has enough money to travel etc... including her medical costs. Assuming the worst just to annoy me again, are you?

You can deny it, but ever since you made the racist and bigoted remark about my girlfriend being a 'fuckbuddy' (she's colombian, so she must be right? oh, but if she was from Montreal, we'd be serious... yeah right!) you have been rude and exagerated my 'dishonesty' with pride.

You even hope my girlfriend gets 'caught', whatever that means. I will soon ignore you, just as soon as I make sure you don't make any more insulting racist and bigoted remarks towards me and my family and Colombians. Get it into your thick skull that there will be NOTHING illegal about this, nor will she ever think for one second to overstay her visa.

From my comments I will get her in no matter what? go back and read my post, you bigot, and you will find that if we don't get the visa, I will go to Colombia, I am just finding the right method to get it, since several HONEST options are open to us.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 24, 2007, 18:31:

Maninred, Maybe you and Vic should ignore each other, or block each other, at least for a little while.

He may have chosen a rather coarse word to describe your girlfriend, but you're not making the situation any better by calling him a racist and a bigot. That makes no sense. If I remember correctly, Vic moved from Canada to Colombia, married a Colombian woman and has a baby that's half-Colombian...



You guys need to listen to the Funky Monkey before you post again.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 18:44:

agreed... i am, in that case, surprised he does not have more compassion.

manINred says on Jun 24, 2007, 18:56:

It doesn't, however, give him the right to continually write disrespectful myself and my girlfriend. I do not appreciate the negativity. I admit that perhaps my language towards him has been strong though, and I apologize to the readers of the forum.

Whaddaya say Vicscere... you ignore my current situation (i've laid it out as plainly as anyone cares to see) and I ignore you, I think we would both be happier that way. Please do not post on this thread again, I would appreciate it.

analyzethis1 says on Jun 24, 2007, 19:36:

In Vancouver, a good language school costs betw. $5000-$8000CAD for only 3 mos. sessions. That's a lot to put out! Over here there's no such thing as getting it fully refunded. Regardless, if you choose option 1, don't withdraw before it starts! Getting that certificate in the end will be a useful tool in future visa applications AND your gf will learn the language! BTW, this was how my friend, D, became a Cdn citizen. He enrolled as a student for 1 yr. and during that year, he applied to a computer software co. and they were impressed with his education and how quickly he was able to learn English that they hired him. Now, 10 years later, he's trying to help other students study in Canada rather than the US only because he was denied by the US initially. (He would certainly be an asset to this board if I can only convince him to join PBH and share his experiences. But I, being his "secretary", suits him fine apparently!)

I see both sides of the coin here, too- "do whatever you can legal or otherwise to get her the visa"- Podborski. If you choose to do "otherwise", anything suspicious will be recorded in her file. Remember when I mentioned my friend, A, was held in customs during her 2nd & 3rd visits because she had 2 pieces of luggage? They had that written down!


"A" received her Cdn Visa after her 3rd attempt (2.5 yrs it took her!) During these years, she saved enough $ to afford a bank acct. let alone have anything in it, showed them receipts of some English classes she took in Madrid (even tho she still doesn't speak English good, I mean, well :-o). Finally she got her 6 mos. visa! She had no problems extending it to the max of 1yr. The clicker here was how my friend, D, accompanied her application with letters indicating that he would be responsible of her accommodations.

Option 2 seems to be less expensive. You still have to go through the entire application process with additional documents to support the work visa criteria. All we know about work visas is that the Cdn employer has to prove that the job your gf is filling in will not be taken away from a Cdn citizen. Your father should mention in his letter of support/request that Spanish will be the primary language used for that position.

You've got 2 great options to choose from! Lucky you...lucky HER! Just don't do anything suspicious...it will be recorded down...somewhere.

There are two kinds of gratitude: The sudden kind we feel for what we receive, and the larger kind we feel for what we give. E.A. Robinson

tompower says on Jun 25, 2007, 05:33:

My Humble Opinion:
The language School is the best route to try but you MUST put out the cash, pay the thousands for the school, the airfare, enroll her in an English course in colombia (because its odd that she wouldn't be working on her english currently), and fill her bank with money to support herself while she is in canada BEFORE you apply. If you don't do all that you'll be denied,.... in my humble opinion.

However, there still is a possibility she'll be denied even after all that.

Consider this,... you obviously care for her and want to see more of her. You've known her for a year and a half. What more do you need? Just marry her. GUARANTEED 8 months she'll be a permanent resident. Marry Her and instead of trucking back and forth to colombia to see her for a week here and there you and her can be together for as long as you want. I know its crazy marrying someone you hardly know but so is trying to maintain a relationship over 4000 KM. It's even crazier doing things for what other people think. Just Marry Her and for the same cash your gonna have to put out for the temporary visitor visa you can get her up here and working. Paying some of those bills.

Remember, we're all in this together.
Tom Power

manINred says on Jun 25, 2007, 11:18:

Thanks once again Tom Power and Analyzethis1.

I would marry her, but can't. She actually has a stable job in Colombia that she cannot leave, and wouldn't want to live in Canada anyway. I am a student, struggling to pay fees and airfares. We would be broke and things would be impossible, since she would have to go through highschool then college again to be employable here. I am also very young, and marriage, until I have some sense of stability in my life, is out of the question, for myself, and her.

Oh well, language school it is, unless I can get her a viable work visa. I'll look around at different schools.

Thanks all for your help, greatly appreciated, at least now I won't be disappointed after applying for a tourist visa, expecting to get it, then being denied. That, my friends, would have been a shock, but a shock now averted :)

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 25, 2007, 12:55:

I think you should plan your life based on the advice of strangers on the internet. So here it is:



- Marry her in Colombia.

- You should finish college in Canada. Study hard, take a heavy course load, finish on time or early. That means no more getting plastered on the weekends. Haha.

- During the summers, you can make big bucks working in the Alberta oil fields. I understand they are experiencing boom times there and importing workers from all over.

- After you finish with your degree, go live in Colombia. She can put you on her company sponsored health insurance and you can teach English for a year or two.

- After you're fluent in Spanish and she's fluent in English, you can decide whether to stay in Colombia (presumably you'd be eligible for a better job by then) or move to some other country.



El Fin.



Tinto's Life Counseling Service

Fee: 1000 Colombian Pesos, cash/check/credit cards accepted

manINred says on Jun 25, 2007, 13:07:

"I think you should plan your life based on the advice of strangers on the internet"

Do I detect a hint of facesiousness here? I don't see the harm on gathering VISA advice from people who have gone through the process before and learned through their experiences... which is exactly what I am doing.

However, your life advice is pretty good. Summers I make good money as it is, however that's the point, i need to stay in Canada to make it. I would make more in Alberta, but it's so so far away. I already take a heavy courseload, don't party hard on weekends, with the occasional exception/lapse, get exceptional grades which win me scholarships/bursaries/gov. aid (still doesn't cover all costs though) and am already fluent in Spanish.

Do you accept traveller's cheques?

Miguel_Clavo says on Jun 25, 2007, 13:08:

manINred....only pay Tinto in PBH Gringo $$ if i were you..=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jun 25, 2007, 13:15:

Yes, I was being facetious. I know, it doesn't always come through well on the internet.



On a serious note, if you're still in college (and not in grad school) are you in your early 20s? Is your girlfriend about the same age?

manINred says on Jun 25, 2007, 13:21:

I am in my early (early!) 20s. she is several years older, but not many. I'll tell you, it's tough in my situation loving a girl and a country so far far away, and Canada doesn't exactly make it easy for me to do so if they don't let her visit me!

dave_travels says on Jun 25, 2007, 14:12:

Those Language schools usually do not give the tuition back unless you show them the denial letter from the Embassy in Bogota. (move to Colombia for a year with money u will make in the oil sands).

megustamuchisimo says on Jun 26, 2007, 06:26:

Yes, the Canadian government is totally hypocritical regarding the issue of visas for Colombians, and you go to all the trouble to get the paperwork together and PAY THE FEES only to get denied, when your case is totally legitimate. The US tells Canada what to do here, regarding NO COLOMBIANS ALLOWED unless they're the RICH ones!

podborski says on Jun 26, 2007, 07:13:

I wouldn't REALLY do anything illegal to get someone in the country, that's just far too problematic, especially these days. I'm just saying I am not morally opposed to it as I believe in open borders (with some limits).

As always, government regulations and dumb bureaucracy lead to special favours for the wealthy, the connected, or those willing to break the law.

Anyway, I only had to put down a $100 deposit for the school my amiga was applying for, and when she was turned down they gave it back to me, even though I didn't have a denial letter from the embassy because when she was told no, my sweet little Colombiana swore at them and said bad things about Canada and stormed out before getting one : )

podborski says on Jun 26, 2007, 07:14:

p.s. She was accepted into the USA with nary a problem. (Ha, bet no one has seen that word in a long time)

manINred says on Jun 26, 2007, 13:49:

Did they give her a reason as to why she was turned down? And for that matter why she was accepted in the States?

podborski says on Jun 26, 2007, 19:40:

I think they would have given her a reason if she had stayed around for the denial letter or whatever, but I wasn't kidding she got mad and stormed out. For some reason I thought that was quite cute, to get mad at a whole country...

She had no problem getting into the US I guess because even though she is young (well, late 20´s) she is a lawyer, owns property, has a bank account..I think those were the key things?

manINred says on Jun 27, 2007, 13:09:

So basically Canada had no reason to turn her down, yet still did, even though she was applying for a language school.

That puts an optimistic spin on things for me :)

podborski says on Jun 27, 2007, 16:41:

yeah I hate to be pessimistic, and I think you should still try, but you need to know it is a long shot.

You should have a back up plan of some sort, and at very least, do not go and buy any airline tickets just yet (or even if someone tells her she will definitely get the visa, wait until it is in her hand).

vicshere says on Jun 27, 2007, 16:46:

heys a funny one 4 years ago ...one year after been married and living in Colombia...I went to Bogotá and asked for a visa for my wife to go to Canada with me on holiday for 2 months ( I am Canadian by the way)......we paid filled out the applications in the afternoon we had the visa....she had no money no house no job all put on application...only thing she had at the time was a Colombian 9 year old daughter and of course she had me "no money gringo"

listo

podborski says on Jun 27, 2007, 17:58:

BTW manInred, somewhere the Cdn gov't has a list of approved schools, make sure you choose one of those (there are hundreds).

I think I found the list pretty easily, probably on the embassy site.

manINred says on Jun 28, 2007, 10:37:

Thanks podborski, I'll check them out. I'll give it a shot and let whoever cares know the outcome, who knows, maybe it works like a lottery and your friend just got unlucky. My hopes however remain low, but might as well try.

I guess the true answer is marriage. Too bad it's not an option

manINred says on Jun 28, 2007, 10:38:

I actually don't even have the heart to tell her how unlikely this is :(

podborski says on Jun 28, 2007, 12:57:

hopefully she will be lucky and prove us all wrong...good luck.