She wants to go to Panama

adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Dec 19, 2004, 23:16:

Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 23:29:

And I will 2nd that San Andres / Provicencia

It's close. And from Cartagena...there are always attractively priced package deals.

Panama?? Why? They have that island (I forgot what it's called) but Panama? What are you going to do there? Visit the canal? That's a half hour...then what? That will cost you a bundle. Only one airline flies direct (Copa). It's a short flight....but it's not cheap.

San Andres...Go for it!

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mark says on Dec 19, 2004, 23:34:

go to panama, and for gods sake De-flower her!!!

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 19, 2004, 23:39:

forget Panama Come on...be real !

Even if he wants to de=xx her, his chances are better on San Andres then Panama for goodness sake!!!

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YEP says on Dec 20, 2004, 02:23:

As a total (almost) n00b on Colombian geographics .....
Where is "San Andres / Provicencia"

And what is it that makes this/these places so special.

Working on my travel notes/plans so any input regarding this is welcome

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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kernow62 says on Dec 20, 2004, 04:24:

I agree go for San Andres if she likes to party, and Providencia if you guys want to feel like you are alone.

It is a further flight than to Panama, 500 miles to San Andres vs about 280 miles to Panama, but it is less hassle, for her. Prices in San Andres aren't as cheap as mainland Colombia, but might compare favourably with Panama.

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kernow62 says on Dec 20, 2004, 04:26:

Oh, I forgot you asked where they are, the Islands are just of the coast of Nicaragua.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 06:57:

The key is this.... Look,this is a no brainer. You are going on a vacation. You want to spend (dedicate) your time to your girl. Panama is a place to go if you have business to do. Panama is a big city, not tourist place for a guy trying to romance his woman. By the way, like a I said earlier, Panama will cost you more. The air fare alone will cost you close to $500. Copa, the only airline that can get you to Panama directly is not cheap

Go to any travel agency in Cartagena and they will have lots of tour packages that include everything; Air fare, hotel, meals for great prices. The price is largely dependent on what class hotel you are going to stay at. You will not have to plan a thing except deciding where you want to club...and all those places will probably be within walking distance of your hotel.

San Andres is real pretty to. You can drive around the island in no time. Also, the beaches are real nice....in my opinion better than Catagena. Have a good time.

Best of all, her aunts/family will not be around to rain on your parade!

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miamimike says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:11:

Why Panama ??? I don't understand WHY this GF of yours wants to visit Panama when there are so many Nice places to visit in Colombia. I transited the Panama Canal several time when I shipped out in the Merchant Marine and the Canal Transit deal is very interesting-provided you viewing the operation from a ship. We stopped and docked in Bilboa different times and the only Colombian Women I saw there on "Business" were the "Girls" who worked at Gloria's House--famous in Bilboa for merchant seaman who had been womanless for extended times. Get the drift...I would seriously be questioning the true motives of this GF of yours at this point in time. Proceed with Caution !! There are countless places in Colombia to visit for a Romantic Getaway--you need not leave Colombia. Go to San Andres as other posters have suggested !! You call the Shots; After all you are the person Paying!!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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fennell01 says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:14:

G/F and Panama Where is San Andres? Is it in Colombia? Who can she contact in Cartagena for a trip package? And yes, I think often about the de-flower but it aint happnin. I have about 20 American girls who can take care of that for me.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:21:

Some good advice posted above from Miamimike, gringoinbogota and gomezman5 - I heartily agree. To me, San Andres is nothing special - typical Carribbean island - but it is inexpensive. She should not have any problem getting a package deal since it's a favorite destination for Colombians looking to get away. I would be very suspicious Fennell01 - most Colombianas, even conservative ones, will put out for their novio in your situation.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:41:

I have not been to San Andres in about a year and a half. I am encouraged by the thought that it's dead and everyone's going to Panama. One of the things I did not like about it was the number of people going there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 08:50:

The Caribe Campo sounds great, dude! I hate feeling like part of a herd - round 'em up and move 'em out!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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elmodefoque says on Dec 20, 2004, 09:19:

all the way to colombia then panama for some ass, no way, she gotta have a bigger ass than J-lo or sofia vergara for me do that.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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viewpoint says on Dec 20, 2004, 09:51:

fennell01 Dear Fennell,

I knew that poor girl wasn't going to get to Panama when you were worried about fronting the $500 that Panama immigration requires.

Now you need advice from twenty posters about what you should do with her ? Like GringoinBogota said Panama is very popular with Colombians and many things to do. The only thing better than taking your girlfriend to Panama is going there without her. Plenty of women in Panama of all nationalities (espectially Colombian). You don't have to worry about finding them (the women) as they will find you and (without their tia) ready to rock and roll.

Even ELMO would get lucky in Panama City !!!! jajajaja

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 20, 2004, 11:50:

You're right, Gringoinbogota! Thanks for posting the photos. If Mrs. Magoo gets the urge to go to San Andres again, I'd like to check Caribe Campo out. Excellent suggestion.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 12:54:

But San Andres is still cheaper !! Like a bunch of us have already said, SA is cheaper. Furthermore---no ifs, but or ands....about it. Look she has not put our yet. right? And you're paying for the trip. right? Take her to SA, and if all goes well, you can take her to Panama in the future. I would NOT make a big investment in this chica until she is worth it.

Viewpoint is %100 correct. Panama is a fun place to go alone. Look man, if you pay to take her to Panama, and you don't get "anything" out of it, you will have paid more than a long weekend package to SA, and you will have ended up in Panama with her not being able to "get to know" someo of the local attractions and international attractions that are also there.....In closing, it's SA with the novia or Panama alone....!!

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viewpoint says on Dec 20, 2004, 13:41:

fennell01 Dear Fennell,

Something is different with the relationship you have with this girl.

The greatest problem is "not" the ability to engage one of these women but rather the ability to disengage the relationship safely and alive if the need or desire arises. Why do you think that Hunter and I (who live in the land of eternal spring and beautiful women) don't answer our phone or the front door all the time.

Listen to ELMO and his lifetime of Colombian experiences. Every night he goes to bed with one eye open fearing for his life. Do you want to trade places with him ?

Go to Panama alone and your chances of scoring "big time" are better.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 13:53:

But the girl friend !! I think we are all getting far off the subject here. (myself included) The thread started by Fennell wanting to go away alone with his woman where he will not get harrassed by his family (I believe a couple of aunts) so he can "take care of business" with her. I don't think he meant to say that he is on a fishing expedition to find fresh bait. If that is the case, and he is going to be in Colombia---hey, if he can't get laid there---then where? Or, I will put it another way, I certainly would not travel to Panama to get laid....Especially if you are already in Colombia.

But like I said, I don't think that's what he wants. He wants to go away with a woman he is looking to make a future with. If not, then go to Cali, or Medellin, better yet and we want to meet some real hotties---go to Neiva!!!

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 18:47:

I think roofus is on to something... Short and to the point. I think even eye missed it. This girl might just be fishing for a trip to Panama....and deflowering may not be in the picture....The whole thing makes no sense. Tia or no Tia -- she would have found the time needed to take care of bussiness. Hey, we did in Colombia or here. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Fenell, you might want to give roofus's remark some serious thought!
Sorry, but true.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 19:26:

Take Gringo's wisdom Gringo thinks things through fairly well....
Give his comments some thought!!

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fennell01 says on Dec 20, 2004, 19:35:

Hey Guys You all are great-but your missing something. I have been a dog to women for 20 years and I am trying to do the "right" thing. These girls here in the states think it is strange if I dont bang them 2nd date. I have been with too many women. I was a male model and I worked at a nightclub for 5 years-yes I have been tested and yes I am fine. I am 35, she is 21. I met her through a friend who was dating a Colombiana. I may be making a mistake with her-but trust me -I am covered. I am just trying to find a nice girl, and I think she may be it....If she's not...I lose a little dignity and a little money,but who is counting.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 20:06:

OK --I touched on that point earlier Fen

These threads tend to go that way sometimes...then if she is the one
(at least you believe so) than go for it......!

But no Panama...make it SA

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 20, 2004, 20:28:

Fen...Gringo is on track....again You know, in my last entry.... I think I just caved in and did not want to argue. But Gringo, in his typical relentless, stick to it style makes a point that I was thinking about as I told you to go for it. The fact is, he is correct. I am a Colombian/American, but I know the culture. It's my people and my culture. But gringo's take and analysis is fairly on point.

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miamimike says on Dec 20, 2004, 22:18:

Bancarota !! Gringogoinbogota makes a valid point and I agree with him. If the family was so honorable to start with no way would they give permission for their daughter to accompany you on a trip solo. Has to be other reasons. Motivos Ulteriores. My advice--tell her you filed chapter 11 Bankruptcy papers here in the states and have very limited financial resources--like "Baby- I am Broke" !!!Dinero-no lo tengo(mucho)See if her body langauge(eyes and body shift around uncomfortably)gives her away. I would be saying "Hasta La Vista" about this time. Too many other possibilities exist.As Kenny Rogers in the Gambler says" Got to know when to hold them and when to fold them" and for you, play it safe and "Fold em" Pronto ! Good Luck!(who knows, with this mindset, you may find her returning in a few days ready to deal more fairly)

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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fennell01 says on Dec 20, 2004, 22:54:

come on Guys! I havent even got to second base and you guys are telling me to "fold em"....I could give a shit where me and my tica go, I just wanted to spend time with her alone. Her Father is the one who gave me permission-her mom wanted to go with and I said "No"(not to her mom of course). By the way, her sister married an American and the whole family really loves the way he cares for her..I think this has helped me alot. When I am with her I am very repectful and I think her family trusts me...I am not trying to get laid. If we come in from the beach and she decides the time is right I'm goin for it, but otherwise I'm Mr. Nice Guy...

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oldbongo says on Dec 20, 2004, 23:10:

you just splained it... the oldgringo can tell you that, contrary to
the previous poster,it is indeed possible that a nice young
girl, from a traditional family,can earn the trust of her father,
and her brothers, and be entrusted to the care of a quality suitor.
and i can tell you that quality does not need to refer to money.
gringoinbogota is accurate in general,people are very sensitve to
being seen with "bad eyes",and it happens alot, but with your
situation,you have an blinking green light, proceed with caution.

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caslug says on Dec 20, 2004, 23:37:

Like your thinking Fennell.. "I am just trying to find a nice girl, and I think she may be it....If she's not...I lose a little dignity and a little money,but who is counting"

That's the right attitude i think, while do think gringo/gomez are calling this one right, but at least you're entering this with eyes wide-opened. No one can ask for anymore than that.

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dwmte says on Dec 21, 2004, 05:45:

trust your heart............but, panama? in my early years in colombia, 89-92or 92, i went to panama every 3 months to get a fresh visa. too, i had bank meetings there on several occassions. i must have gone there about 15 times.

thinking of panama as romantic reminds me of lagos, nigeria. romantic? hell no. it's a hole. i found absolutely nothing redeeming about the place. to be honest, in my many visits, i didn't go out of the city so as per the beach and islands, rainforest, i cann't speak. however, there's a certain 'down' atmosphere to the place that i'm not sure would dissipate by going out of the city.

with so many wonderful places in colombia to hang out and visit, why anyone would go to panama escapes me. like i said earlier, one might as well go to lagos. another real suck hole.

now to your girlfriend....you don't need anybody's advise here. here you can only trust your heart. when i met my colombian wife, some 15 years ago, she was 35-36, still a virgin and from a fine, modest family. they allowed her to go to panama with me. they trusted her in my hands, because my 'hands' were trustworthy. i wasn't in colombia in the first place to 'check out the chicas' or 'get laid'. sure, i know all about that scene there. it's there, in large measure, everywhere. but if it's not on one's radar, it might as well be non existant.

your lady sounds like a nice young gal and your intentions seem to be respectable. go for what your heart tells you. there is no better judge/scale. as for going to panama. why don't the two of you sit down and roll the dice over options in colombia? there's so much more and it's closer and infinitely more romantic...forget the cost.

i've been married for 15 years now and i've experienced it all. good times, bad times, hard times and easy times. we buried our first born and have a wonderful 12 year old daughter. living with a fine, quality colombian woman is not necessarily easy, they're 'right' even when they're wrong. but they are the best. loyal, honorable and devoted to their home.

again, young friend, 'follow your heart', as the saying goes and you wont go wrong.

all the best to both of you.

dwm

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 06:05:

demte...well put !! See, he is saying what I basically said early on...Why Panama? While I don't know Lagos, I do know Panama. Calling it a hole may be a bit hard. But...it's like going to a large commercial city/ in fact it looks and feels very similar to Miami. But Miami would even be better because Miami Beach is nice...And by the way...it (Panama) is one of the hottest (as in heat) and most humid place I have ever been. But then again SA is similar....

You know what Fen....I think you have heard it all. I kind of agree with a majority of these guys that are saying this woman mught be useing you. I like the bancruptcy idea in theory, but should one have to go to such extremes by playing games to see if their woman is sincerely a money grabber or a sincere lady that is worth your while.

In closing, none of us really no her, you see her day to day, interact all the time, in other words you know or should know her
"form a decir" a great Spanish expression that English doen't really have a parallel expression for. In other words you know how she operates. With that said, just think about things critically.
But if you do go.....and one more time......make it SA and not Panama.
So, if you called the travel agent yet to at least get prices on some great package deals available??????

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 06:11:

At this point-- Just Go. You seem to be resigned to the fact that she is great, and the family is great, and I don't think anyone here is going to change that---and we probably should not because like I said in my last thread, we're not there from day to day.

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fennell01 says on Dec 21, 2004, 07:07:

San Andres is out.. Whats up Guys? Well, her grandparents live in freakin San Andres and it seems as though she spent a large portion of her life vacationing there...so any other suggestions will help....Thanks

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elmodefoque says on Dec 21, 2004, 07:15:

fennell, what I used to do when I was banging broads I was not suppose to, they either were married or had boyfriends, was to take them to Cocoliso, Islas Rosario, Cartagena.
Take her there for a couple days and put her on all fours as often as she or you want, with no brother, father, husband, boyfriend, mom, Tia, etc, accidentally walking by. This place is an island resort and only guests are allowed.

I'll get there, when I get there!

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 08:13:

Hey Fen.....are you yanking our chain? Grow up! You started this thread with the idea that it was going to be SA or Panama. That was a few days ago. All these people giving you sound feedback albeit with different perspectives - one place or another-- and NOW you say SA is out becausse the grandparents are there?

Hey something is wrong here. And now I think it's on your end. You mean to say you were clueless about the grandparents living is SA, before you started this thread? Theat is very hard to believe!
If there is one thing you should have learned from most of us at this point, its that you don't need our advice as to how to be a man and take the girl for a good time---you can find private moments to move forward--sexually--or otherwise. And maybe she is using you, like others have said. But you should be able to pick up on that too.

In the meantime, it sounds like your just playing games out here. How in the hell is it that you did not know about her grandparent living there? Thats absurd. And even if they are, you're not making sense. You can always go there, and stay in a resort hotel and not tell the grandparents. Are they going to stalk you or something? What are they, virtual bodyguard that follows your girlfriend wherever whe goes. You said you worked in a club? You don't sound like the kind of guy that did. Their sharp. I don't see you as the type...I think your out here moving this thread for what you can to play us for fools.

Bottom line, if you come on here and you want honest advise, then be honest yourself period. Don't come on here to yank everybodys chain. In the end, you will loose because nobody is going to be to interested in sharing their opinions with you in the future.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 09:22:

Gringoinbogota--look ---this guy is playing here Come on man. Did you read his last (Fen) thread and my response?? Now he says that he found out that the grandparents live in San Sndres so he can't go there. You mean he did not know this before he started the threa 60 entries ago....this guy Fen, is just playing games. I dodn't mind good honest sincer advse. I know we also will not all agree, sometimes it even gets personal, but this Fen is just yanking our you know what. Read his last entry and my repsonse...I think you will see what I am saying...I'm pretty detailed

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fennell01 says on Dec 21, 2004, 09:46:

settle down Gomez I assure you that I am not "yankin" anyone. I ask for help on this site and people usually give it, everything I said was true. She did tell me that her Gparents lived there-but I did not remember. Bottom line wherever we go it will be my decision.
I never asked advice on "how to be a man" or how to show a girl a good time. I think if you could see my life you would not be so brazen with your angry statements.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 10:16:

Fen--From silly to absurd Say as you want..but it doesn't make sense that you would be dating this girl and not know that her grandparents live there and this is especially so since you told me that she has visited there many times. Additionally, listen to the silliness of what you are saying...

When you said in your last thread that SA is out, b/c her gradparents are there, one can logically conclude that you can't be anywhere with her if there also happens to be family there. Cartagena, (a big city) is no good because she has 2 aunts "around". Isn't that what your original thread was about?? So you decided that SA or Panama was an alternative. Now, Fen at least 3 other people already made reference to the fact that you looked kind of silly trying to go to another geography to be alone with this girl. I suggest you reread those entries. But now, once again, and this is where you look silly in particular, you say you can't go to SA because the Gparents are there??/ Come On.....!!! That's comical. You're not moving there for God's sake! Do you really think that the Gparents are going to be anywhere near where you are going to be with your girl if you go there (SA) for a long weekend or even a couple of weeks....Please.

Angry statements? Please I'm not an angry person, and if I was, I would not be venting my anger here. I still say, you need to mature a little. Call a travel agent, make a decision--and like another person said--consider other parts of Colombia--how about Santa Marta..But then again, that may be no good because she may have cousin there, who will act as a spy for one of your aunts in CTG

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 10:25:

give Fenn a break I have been staying out of these highly opinionated threads lately as they lead nowhere except to bashing each other.

I agree Panama is currently not the best choice because of the $1000 or $500 entrance fee for a Columbiana, but if you can invest in it, why not? There are many pretty vacation places in Panama. I would personally prefer to fly down to Chile, but that is just me.

Fenn, it is yours to decide where you stand in her life, and all I read from you sounds solid enough. From reading others it sounds like they are imposing their experiences on to you. Shrugs, you are your best judge.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 10:58:

Lionheart He is not looking for a nice place to romance his woman. He is looking to go somewhere where there is not even a trace of her family because, if there is family around he can't...move forward. He has already read over 30 thread on the virtues, or lack of them, between
SA and Panama, he just can't go anywhere there may be a trace of family.

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 11:03:

gomez so?

and what gives you the right to judge him or imply all sorts of stuff?

he asked a simple question and gets nailed for it, this is not friendly or nice.

you guys need to get out of your bashing mode or keep it to your own threads that others can avoid. I don't even want to ask questions anymore because of your aggressive replies, nothing helpful at all.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 11:30:

Lionheart Just to clarify, I was one of the first people in this thread to offer very constructive advise. I continued to do so until today. He comes out of left field about a partcular detail that he should have known to begin with. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, with people setting forth other points of view. I really think you need to read some of the earliest thread to see where I and others come from.

He is trying "to make" it with a girl and he wants so go somewhere because he claimed he could not do it in CTG cause she has aunts there. That in and of itself sounds silly but ok, I bought into it. I never met a Colombiana in my life that I had to take on a vacation to another city or worse yet country, to build a relationship with or (get laid) if it is just that. So after deciding between SA or Panama, and getting dozens of threads telling him about the virtues or lack of them in both place, he now contends that he cant go to SA because the girl has grandparents there.

Now come on Lionheart, if he has to go to that length to win over what appears to be nothing more than a manipulative muchacha, that he claims is really someone special, I think he is naive...and more than a bit. Like Gringo said earlier, this is not some Colombiana coming from a fine Colombian family. If that were the case, she would never be traveling alone with him to begin with. This is Colombia, you are either up there in the socio economic scale or not. At the same time, remember the old saying, "Love is blind."

So ultimatly what is your suggestion? That we never speak negavtively when we see something amiss? You forgot, and I mean read the opening thread...when he came on, he detailed why he was looking to travel with her. He did not come on and simply ask "I'm planning a vacation, which is better SA or Panama?" He threw in the girlfriend and a whold bunch of detais as to why he was planning to travel with her." Therefore, when you provide personal info, you have to expect comments related to the very issue that you have presented. To just say, go here or go there would not have been a very responsive answer in light of the issue that HE himself has presented. In summary, if you bring up your love life, expect some conversation in that regard as well. Places like this don't operate in a vacume.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 21, 2004, 11:32:

The problem with Cartagena is she is from Cartagena and wants to go somewhere else. I can understand that. My wife was perfectly happy to go with me to San Andres the first time I met her. As we say, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 11:46:

why don't you believe him, Gomez? "I would like to add that my secondary goal is not to de-flower her but rather to get to know her better. "

This was in his original post. I have had similar experience twice. With family prancing around all the time it is hard to get romantic and start talking serious about your future, especially when a family is over-protective. I had a Columbiana g/f in the USA once ... she flew to me for her first visit with her father's permission for 2 weeks and we had a good time. Little did I know that her uncle had followed her and would have cut my throat if I had done her any harm. After 2 years I gave up on the relationship, because her family would not let her break out.

And when I come to Colombia I am prepared to ask for the parent's permission, and I hope that will be enough. Family ties are strong and protective, and if you don't show respect you will get nowhere. These ties do not only exist in fine Colombian families (you mean rich, Gomez?), but in any proud family. I think more helpful advice along that line is what Fenn could use, if any. Where could he go to have peace and quiet with her?

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 21, 2004, 12:15:

I am all in favor of gringoinbogota's suggestion. And if she won't go, you can take me :-)!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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vapour says on Dec 21, 2004, 12:33:

A simplistic view I may be reading too little into this, but from what I can see it's a matter of, he wants to spend time getting to know her out of sight of the family unit. Cool, no prob. She wants to go to Panama. My feeling is, should she not love him and want to spend time with him regardless of the location? My 2 cents worth is, jsut tell her, sorry, I have spent most of my money coming down 2x a year to see you. And if there is one iota of negative reaction from her, dump her. She's looking for a wallet, not a partner in life.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 13:28:

Lionheart Love and, if it's in the cards, sex, is one of the most powerfull forces there is. It is for this reason that millions of people are able to be unfaithful to their spouces, get away with it. If spouses can be unfaithful to each other. These 2 characters, can fidn away to be alone for quality time to do whatever

The forces that bring people together ALLWAYS overcome obsticles that stand in the way.

"Where could he go to have peace and quiet with her?"
You're not serious are you? Hey man, this is Colombia, not a housing project in a crowed part of New York on a hot summer day.

I said it before, and I'll say it again...and concentrate on this line; If Fen has to go through all this trouble to have meaningfull conversation/quality time which may include love-making, just

"To get to know her better",

she is NOT worth it to begin with. I take vacations with a woman only when I know she is worth the time being with, and worth putting putting out the money for. To do less is just plain foolishness.......

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 13:47:

Let's agree to disagree It is mute to continue the debate, we have different opinions. I base my opinions on my experiences, you base your opinions on your experiences, Gomez.

Peace.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 13:49:

roofus You are right!!!
But man, there are enough of us guys out there telling this guy
wake up and thus preventing him from screwing up. If he want to live in dream world....then, oh well. It's his time and money, and in light of all the advise he has recieved, in the end he will feel pretty bad.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 13:53:

Lionheart............... I agree at this point...
We will have to agree to disagree.

My opinion is just that-- my opinio and it is no better or worse than yours.

Que tenga una Feliz Navidad !!

Paz tambien

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 14:00:

Roofus In a thread a few weeks back we had a discussion about how Columbianas (or Latinas in general) prefer a dominant man that keeps a tight reign and has control of life. I fully agree with you on that, and most Colombianas I have talked to agree that that is what they want.

There is a big difference between a macho man (which they despise once they have learned what it really means) and a dominant man (which they respect and honor) ... I think a Colombiana can explain this much better than I can.

I agree, many gringos are in for a rude awakening if they do not understand this:

"Under My Thumb" - Rolling Stones - listen to the song

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 21, 2004, 14:18:

err...I hate to contardict you on this one...but I have some real-life experience that proves that that it is not so...there's a really strong matriarchal undercurrent in the Colombian society. The women would swear to God that that's what they want, yet it will be them making all the important everyday decisions. They smile and say..."my husband wants this and that..." but it's them who made the decision in the first place. I can just see the smile on my mother-in-law's face when she was saying..."my husband just loves the Italian marble floors for the house, and of course, that's what we got". In the real life, she let him take all the important decisions, like the ones concerning world peace, international banking, local politics and such, but she decided what color of underwear he was allowed to wear.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 21, 2004, 14:47:

not only that I believe she never had to wash his jockeys...they had a maid to do that job. Yes, she decided what he was allowed to eat, when it was time for him to get a haircut and who would be the people invited for the first communion of their children.
But, she also decided when it was time to sell the old house in the barrio Obrero and move to San Fernando, to which schools would the children be enrolled to, if he should keep his job at the General Motors or not....but always with a smile on her face when she said...."my husband has decided..."
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 21, 2004, 15:17:

not so They were very happy together and lived to a respectable age of 95 and 94...he was always the head of the household and I believe he never felt that she had too much control over their lives. He was secure of his role as a man and as a husband, but permitted her to decide over the things in their conjugal lives that he deemed she knew best.
I don't think he felt for one instance diminished in his masculinity letting her to decide over those things. The important decisions were always discussed, of course, and I believe that he was totally aware of her small little manipulations but let her get away with them.
I believe that's what they call the balance of terror.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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oldbongo says on Dec 21, 2004, 15:28:

exacto... thats why the old lion calls the young lioness..."mi commandante".
just remember, who is the king, and who is the queen.
no need to compare this with those who wear their wedding ring
through their nose,which i am sure gringoinbogota will never do.
nor elmo...
mario..you'll do it

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fennell01 says on Dec 21, 2004, 15:33:

Thanks Everyone-Even the Angry Man... Well, if I take everyones opinion and form an average I think I may have learned something. I talked to my ex today(who is on this months cover of Maxim) and told her about you Guys. I really appreciate your help. There is a chance, just a chance Gomez, that I need to be more assertive with my Tica. When it comes to planning a trip-I know nothing-but I guess it is time to learn(as if running my business and dealing with American women wasnt enough)Tnks.Fennell

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YEP says on Dec 21, 2004, 15:43:

Aka ... Des ..... all (OK most) women are terrorists ;-)
I simply couldn't resist stirring in the pond of opinions ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------- Just another scandinavian getting ready to explore South America

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Lionheart says on Dec 21, 2004, 15:53:

Desi, you are fully right I wasn't talking about the whole family structure ... it is a matriarch most definitely. Italy, Greece, Spain, and Turkey are other prime examples. The domainant man runs the worldly matters and is the protector of house and family. But at home La Mamma is the boss, no doubt about that at all.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 17:15:

Fen...it's not anger my man--just be a MAN!! Take a stand and do what you want to do. I don't care if it's an aunt a grandmother, or the man in the moon. You are putting out your money, your time and whatever other resources to play up to this chica. She should appreciate whatever you want to do. And damn it, don't let anyone interfere. By the way, when a women want sex, it means she wants you......EVEN if she is only doing it because you are giiving her a good time. But don't be shelling out all this $$ so that after it's over, she gives you a kiss on the cheek and says "Thank you, I had a good time." You make sure.....damm sure you get something out of it.....OK?????????????? If you don't get it, private message me.
Take it easy !!!

Sincerely----Angry Gomezman

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Brian858 says on Dec 21, 2004, 21:11:

San Andres / Providencia - photos Skip Panama and go to the Islands. You can get an all inclusive for ~ $280/each includes airfare from Bogota and 4 days / nights. Here are some photos from last August:

http://public.fotki.com/Nacira/colombia_82004/san_andres__provide/

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toneloc24 says on Dec 21, 2004, 22:44:

My two cents Not sure about you, but this early into the "relationship," why are you planning such a major trip already???

I'm not sure where this chick lives. I would suggest you stay in Colombia, defintely until things are much clearer in the "relationship." I do understand the family thing, but if she wants to be with you, trust me, it wouldn't such an ordeal. She would already have figured it out for you.

We know that Cartagena & San Andres are supposedly out of the question. How about taking her to Santa Marta (El Rodadero) for a few days at an AI there? If you "hit" it off together, then there's a future. She gets a round 2 invite. If not,.....well, that's already been discussed here.

If you're intent on taking her somewhere, start small and let the relationship earn its way to a foreign land. Your thinking is completely in the mindset of an American, one's who definitely opening himself up to being taken, and little more than that. As I stated before, try Santa Marta for a few days and see how it goes.

Sorry to have to say it that way, but when 5 people are screaming fire, or run, sometimes you need to turn around and look.

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 21, 2004, 23:36:

Bingo toneloc24 Your right. He has been told this but....
And as to Santa Mart..I gave the exact same suggestion earlier.
Lastly, you know, and I know, if this girl wants things to go
forward. Things will go forward, whether travel, stay home, or
just go to the beach, right there in CTG where she lives...

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 22, 2004, 11:32:

Interesting that the word for wedding ring is "argolla" which I was told is also the word you would use for the ring through a bull's nose.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 13:11:

Not a very useful comment, but.. Sorry this isn't very useful, but I love the title of this topic, I always read it because of that!

Anyway, maybe this is more useful - why not compromise and go somewhere like Venezuela? Could be cheaper than Panama, the beaches are supposed to be gorgeous, and she gets to feel special. I'm sure there are some package deals. And you get to feel like you're not doing as she says as it's somewhere completely different.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 22, 2004, 13:41:

Shazcas, This guy (Fen) has $$$$ You asked if there were any millionaires out here.
Fen has lots of $$.
Maybe he should drop his girl and try for you
I don't know if he "measures up"
But you never know///???

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 13:46:

When? When did I ask if there were any millionaires out there? Are you confusing me with someone else?

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 13:53:

Oh I see what you mean Sorry, bit slow tonight - hard day's work! It's just that utopia was talking about gringo millionaires and a taxi driver called Pablo and I don't really know what he's talking about. I don't have time to read all the threads, so I guess it's something I missed. Talking of millionaires, I was an English teacher in Bogota, and because I'm Irish, one of my students thought I lived in a castle! And he was 22! (not primary school if that's what you werre thinking) He was middle-class Colombian, and I'm from a very working-class Irish/British backround. A castle?? That was funny.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:01:

ShazCas Now who are those gringo millionaires?

No my dear. No confusion here.

That's your line from the "Girls. Girls, Girls" thread
Remember? I was just trying to help since I think you sound like a better person than Fen's girl. Fen's the guy who started this thread--the guy who wanted to know if it was better to take his girl to San Andres or Panama so that he could impress/romance?? her.
Since you're the adventurous type, I think he could have taken you to Los Orientales or Las Amazonas for a real adventure and it would be cheaper too.

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:05:

Have already been Happily married to womderful Colombian man, have so far spent 7 years with him, and we have done quite a bit of adventuring. I've been to Lejanias in the Llanos, but I haven't been to the Amazonian region. I'd love to though. We did go on a cargo train from La Dorada to Santa Marta in 1998 though. It took 5 days. And we camped on the beach in Santa Marta and Palomino.

So not interested, just thought maybe my advice might be useful.

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oldbongo says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:09:

senorito mario.. please forgive the misunderstanding..

i meant that that you, like elmo and i, and probably
gringoinbogota,while not permitting that ring near your nose,
WILL let her help you with your underwear selection.

la costenita and i sometimes trade for the day...

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:11:

That's great ShazCas But....now seriously
Be careful !!
Just because you went safely one time.....you might not be so lucky the second.....but I really don't want to go "there"

Just to say, you pass through some tough terrain.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:17:

Wow, ShazCas, you live in a castle? What kind of castle do you live in? And don't try posting pictures of Buckingham Palace and telling us that's where you live - we're too smart for that! Of course you could find a picture of one of the more obscure castles and post that and certainly we would never know the difference. In fact it might even be enough to get Fen to take his girl to Venezuela since he might figure that anyone who lived in a castle or said she did would certainly know what she was talking about. Not that you had, in fact, done any of this.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:27:

Happy Christmas to you too!! Utopia, I'm not going to repeat what I wrote in my last message, basically the same goes for this.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 22, 2004, 14:34:

I hope you are not saying "Y tu mama tambien". Because if you were saying that, and I was a Latino, unless of course you were my friend, then you would be in really big trouble for saying that. I might have to send Pablo, my taxi driver, over to your house to honk his car horn a lot while you were trying to sleep. This is just what I read. It may not be true.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 22, 2004, 15:40:

Kindred Spirits WRT Mario's ex who : "... thinks that my going to Colombia will only result in my finding 'some bitch looking for a f**king green card'"

Man those gringas can get vicious where there's a little competition from afar (I'd say abroad, but the double entendre is too much for even me). My ex has similar sentiments, though she is far less diplomatic about how she expresses them.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 22, 2004, 15:48:

On and On Is this thread ever going to go:

Bye

Bye ?????????????

Isn't 4 pages enough

It's long off the subject

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 22, 2004, 16:00:

You don't think Fen and his girlfriend deserve another page or two? Aura and Calipro got a lotta pages - I can't remember how many exactly - surely Fen deserves as much. Then again, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he should take Shazcas's advice and just dump her in Venezuela. I think he should go to Medellin and hook up with Pablo and the two gringo millionaires but what do I know?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 16:51:

"Dump her.." I didn't say that Utopia. I just thought it might be a nice idea as it's neither Colombia nor Panama, so no-one "wins or loses". There's no need to take it out on the rest of us, just because some guy on this forum insulted you and had a fight with you. I take your comments seriously and am insulted. I have never done anything to offend you at all, and I think maybe you think I'm something I'm not. Peace and love man!!

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Lionheart says on Dec 22, 2004, 17:02:

off on a tangent The way cowboy is posting today is not his usual self. I am seeing this in many threads. I think his possible wife has spiked his eggnog with peyote. The whole topic about Fenn and gal has become a long time mute one anyway.

Peace

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ShazCas says on Dec 22, 2004, 17:14:

Gomez Don't you think I know where I passed though? I'm not stupid! I met a lot of people on that train.. I remember some guys trying to drug a poodle they'd stolen in Barrancabermeja..

But I'm older and wiser now, it's not a journey I'd do again!

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isaactraveler says on Dec 22, 2004, 17:35:

fenn here's what ya do: buddy. you pick the place. she will come, or she will dump you. BUt if she is interested in YOU, then any place will be a vacation.

frankly it all reads pretty odd, and I wouldnt take her out of the country without first having a good understanding of her feelings and intentions. I suspect you are pretty honorable, since you are considering taking her where she wants.

Remember that you are the man in the relationship ( wow that reads pretty sexist) anyway, she will appreciate you more for being direct in the long run.

no charge for that advice, since you get what you paid for it.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 22, 2004, 19:22:

ShazCas---It's your life I can only advise.......take the advise and do as you wish with it...But I'm Colombian, I know my country very very well!
Count on it.

Besides, I know you're married, but I tried to get you second man with lots of $$. I think you would be better to Fen then his muchcha.

So be easy on me....ok?

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 23, 2004, 09:03:

You're not stupid, Shazcas? I never really thought so but I'm glad you're affirming it. Unless I read it on the internet, I don't know what to believe. And Pablo, even though he is a good taxi driver, is not much help with these things. Even the two millionaires in Medellin can't get laid with his help.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 23, 2004, 10:44:

Pablo, and drugged poodles This Pablo guy, is retiring soon so Utopia is going to have to look for a new driver. And, that's just fine, since the guy can't even get the gringo millionares laid in medellin. If the guy on the corner selling arepa con queso can do it, why can't Pablo the driver?

And Shazcas, just be glad that they drugged the poodle and not you!!

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fennell01 says on Dec 23, 2004, 23:36:

Just because I drive a Ferrari... Does not mean that I am RICO! My tica caved and we are going to San Andres. We will be forced to hang with her family-but on the bright side we will have our own Hotel. She wants to go January the 6th. I explained to her the whole "End of the Year" stuff when you own a business and that there is no possible way I can leave then. Her Jefe is being a prick and telling her that her only vacation days are from 1/6 to 1/15. I told her I will bring him a DVD player($49) and he can F*** Off. She makes $8/day

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 24, 2004, 11:01:

Hey Fen Angry Man says:

Good Choice---finally

Find time do have "FUN" with the novia---and forget this
getting to know you stuff..You are with a Colombiana, act like a Colombian. She will respect you more. HAVE FUN WITH HER!!

So make it a point to get AWAY from the family!!!!!
It's a little island, but there are many places to go to HAVE FUN!

If your family doesn't leave you alone---tell them what you are going to tell you boss!!

Give us a report !! If you don't, I might get--angry with you!

ja ja ja =======MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 24, 2004, 11:38:

Pablo, my taxi driver, says, "Que hombre!" If only Elmo were here, he'd tell you, "I'm proud of you, Fen. Now get her on all fours and make her squeal like a pig!"

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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