Sex Tourist from Canada Charge with Offense in Colombia

juancegomez says on Mar 14, 2007, 09:09:

One could hope more countries had such laws... ...but I guess there might well be some sort of conflict when the age of consent in the country of origin happens to be higher than that of the host (the legality of prostitution itself aside).

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 14, 2007, 11:39:

Sorry Rubito........ Rubito...well maybe the law is not new but this guy was just recently arrested in Canada for offenses he committed in Colombia, so in a way this is news. I am sure you can understand that there are those perverts who do come to countries like Colombia to prey on it's youth. I just thought it was interesting and thought that it was newsworthy because as you know it does happen here and I don't think turning a blind eye to it is the thing to do. Yes it is not news as it happens all the time here and everywhere. I am gland that his sorry ass is in jail. I hope they put him in general pop (they won't of course).

Juan in terms of age of consent in different countries that is true enough. I think the age of consent is 18 here in Colombia but am not sure. I spoke to a gringo here a few weeks back. We were in a bar. He is about 70 years old. He was hitting on a 17 year old and was telling me how much he wanted to fuck her. I just can't wrap my head around this kind of shit. 10 or 20 years ago I may have shoved my fist down his throat. I just got up and left.

Rubito, yes it sounds like this idiot filmed allot of his encounters with the children. Now it will be easier to convict him and maybe without having the kids involved any more than they have to. You mentioned girls under 14. Is that the age of consent here in Colombia?


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

tomtom33 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 14, 2007, 14:19:

poco says on Mar 14, 2007, 14:51:

Deserved to get caught The investigation was triggered by the interception at Vancouver International Airport of a suspicious package of DVDs from the Philippines.

That’s what they say but when the x-ray machine turned on his vibrating dildo they took a closer look. Take note: Never pack your porno in a carryon.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elchantajista says on Mar 14, 2007, 15:25:

15 i think judging from my novia sobrinas i think fifteen is the age of consent, don't they have this big party for these young girl to launch them into to woman hood
anda de parranda en Bogota
"Vicente"

anda de parranda al Juanchito "Vicente"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on Mar 14, 2007, 15:33:

Depends i think fifteen is the age of consent, don't they have this big party for these young girl to launch them into to woman hood anda de parranda en Bogota

Giving concent is less, charging for it requires they be 18.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Man Tequila says on Mar 14, 2007, 16:34:

The age of consent in Canada is 18 when the sexual act involves prostitution, pornography or a person in a position of trust (schoolteacher, etc.), 14 otherwise, 12 or 13 year olds can also sleep with someone up to two years older without committing a crime.

Why you'd go under eighteen anyway, I don't know. An adult guy sleeping with ten year olds anywhere deserves jail time in my books.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jay1234 says on Mar 14, 2007, 17:04:

The crime is travelling with intent.... In the US, the statute is 18 U.S.C. §§ 2423(b):"Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct. — A
person who travels in interstate commerce or travels into the
United States, or a United States citizen or an alien admitted for
permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign
commerce, for the purpose of engaging in any illicit sexual conduct
with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 30 years, or both."
The crime is complete when the person travels with intent. The sex just is evidence that the person had the intent.
I would guess that Canada's statute captures the same idea because generally speaking, you can't regulate conduct outside your borders...
I am glad this scumbag got caught.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 14, 2007, 19:54:

Tomtom...age of concent Tom, you are right about the moral stuff. I over-reacted. I have been allot of that lately.

Jay it seems that Canada always follows in the US's footsteps when it comes to many of their laws. The idea of intent is a good one I think to catch and convict these low life. I just wonder how far they can or would go with this law with other offenses?

Vicente I don't know the age they throw that party at myself but it is interesting with regards to consent. I went to a party for a young girl and she was 10. I think this had more to do with communion if I remember correctly.

Man Tequilia I guess I am out of touch with the age thing. I do remember when I was 12 though and all fired up. Twelve year olds having sex with kids their age or close to it does not disturb me. What does, is when adults get involved with these kids.

At any rate, this guy is a scum bag and deserves what he gets.

Poco where in the hell do you get all your pictures lol.



welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2007, 20:49:

I knew there was something peculiar about these professionals.
I have seen them here how they verbalize their keen interest in sex in Colombia.
I hope the Colombian authorities apprehend all and deport them.

The life spam of a taste bud is ten days

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Man Tequila says on Mar 14, 2007, 22:00:

I see the pernicious effects of prostitution pretty often. I also consider adults having sex with children under 18 to be a crime. I would also like to hear monpirri1 explain his comments in more detail, if he can.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2007, 22:56:

Mantequilla How about you explain!

Why so much panic?

It seems there is a bad gringo behind every tree! When I was in Santa Marta I met one American the entire week I was there. And he was born in Ecuador and raised in Puero Rico. He and his Colombian wife who reside in St. Paul, Minnisota where taking holiday with her family that was from Bogota. They approached me because they said they don't see Americans is Santa Marta very often. Only Europeans and Canadians. It seems the idiot's that always bad mouth the gringo's on this page (americans willing to spend money in your dirt poor country)see a terrible gringo behind every tree. I would be suprised if most really were from Colombia. Most likely from France, Canada or the UK! If I were to judge every Colombian as a drug crazed chainsaw weilding maniac or a drug carrying mule I wouldn't bother with the place. But the fact of the matter is that most American's that travel off the beaten path are there to take in the beauty of Colombia and it's wonderful fun loving people. Please don't put us all in the same basket. Sure there are the sleezy types who travel to Colombia for sex, drugs and maybe one day Rock n Roll. But not all of us! The beauty of Colombia has left an ever lasting imprint in my heart. I won't let some disgruntled Colombian ruin that. And remember if you are a disgruntled Colombian. We can visit you. But the odds of you visiting us are nill. First you need a Visa. Then you need to clear Customs and Immigration. And with any luck at all, Your not on the U.S. Governments No Fly List! How do the rich and famous get to visit the USA? They are extradited in shackles. That's how! Viva Colombia!
By b bruce at Tue, 06/21/2005 - 16:43 | reply

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/10639



Child Prostitution in Canada.
The Commercial Sexual Exploitation of Children
http://www.gvnet.com/childprostitution/Canada.htm

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/22312

southern151 says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:02:

Hey monpirri1... Tell us how you really feel! HAHAHA Take it easy man, I was only kidding.

I feel the same way that you do about Colombia...It is BEAUTIFUL! There, unfortunately, are a few assholes that go and ruin it for the rest of us by looking for little girls to sodomize. I don't understand it either. It's fuckin' disgusting! They should be shot without question!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:02:

Look monpirri1 why do you have to be so rude about other nationalities just because one canadian pisses you off? I don't even see what was wrong with what Mantequilla was saying.

"Most likely from France, Canada or the UK"

what the hell are you trying to say? I love your country and speak almost only good about it, yet you talk trash about the UK, France and Canada and really don't know anything about those countries. Please explain to me if I am misinterpreting something here.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:09:

And so what Rubito... Canada has some child prostitution. Every country does. Sin duda. At least governmental Canadian institutions see the problem, make it publicly known, and (try to) address it. Too bad they don't do it more often with their many other problems. The Canadian gov. is so hypocritical and so stiflingly boring that I've ceased to care too much. They have their upsides though.

Most Canadians who wax poetical about Canada have not been outside of North America anyway. It's not a bad country though, all things considered.

I would personally take my favourite elements of every country I've been to and make a super-country of utopia. That would be nice: I'd include some Britain, Colombia, Canada, Spain, Italy hell, even some USA!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Monpirri says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:10:

Make sure you also show them the link where you said Canadians are the most degenerated.

The life spam of a taste bud is ten days

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:14:

Man monpirri1 I used to have respect for you, someone who stuck up for his country always, and whose heart was obviously there, but you seem so hypocritical at times. You pounce on the opportunity to make a country you really know nothing about look bad, when you KNOW that if someone did that to Colombia you'd be enraged. And just because you make a few assumptions about some Canadian posting on a website. Sad.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Man Tequila says on Mar 14, 2007, 23:51:

I have travelled to Colombia and been struck by the friendliness of Colombian people, the beauty of local music and dance, the cosmopolitan cities and fine weather. Fortunately, most Colombians do not make insane sweeping attacks on other nationalities, and most Colombians are gracious and friendly. Your innuendo is unappreciated. I have gone out of my way to learn about Colombian culture and tell other people what a nice country Colombia is, why they should go there, and why its international reputation is undeserved. If Colombia is lucky, they will help themselves and their economy by attracting a lot MORE tourists. I do hope Colombia goes forward -- this will not happen through xenophobia, dishonest hypocrisy and insulting innuendo. You talk about ignorance and are its standard bearer. Shame on you.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringolondinense says on Mar 15, 2007, 03:21:

Belgium is the capital of child molestation in the EU.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 15, 2007, 05:49:

Canadians most degenerated Rubito we all know here that you have a hate on for Canada. I could go on about your comment re: "Canadians are the most deviant sexual people on the planet. And we've been collecting statistical evidence on the hush-hush to back it up too." But the comment is just too ridiculous to pay much attention to, lol. Where in the world do you come up with this stuff? We will watch for the best news source and the statistical data to back up your ludicrous comments on CNN. Right. LOL. Thanks for the laugh Rubito you made my day.

Canada is NOT perfect. No country is. However, it is not as bleak as you always point out Rubiito. Too bad you have a bad taste in your mouth about Canada.

I digress from the topic on this thread but felt compelled to comment on your recent discovery regarding sexual deviants in Canada. ROTFL


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Mar 15, 2007, 06:00:

I might fall under the category of “a sex tourist”. I gotto Colombia for one thing only, sex/chicharron. I often eat chicharron while having sex or have sex while eating chicharro.
The only difference between me and the other mentioned “sex tourist”, I like broads 25 plus, of course a 21 year old is not bad either.
I have never set foot in a church, museum, and if you ask me what’s the capital de barranquilla , damn if I know, but I do know where every single whore and chicharron place in Curramba, Cartagena and Santa Marta, is!

I'll get there, when I get there!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Mar 15, 2007, 06:09:

gringolondinese "Belgium

is the capital of child molestation in the EU."


Did not know that but not in the least surprised. Does seem to be the center of decadence spreading across Europe.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kalder says on Mar 15, 2007, 06:14:

Amsterdamned A few years back a journalist from the British broadsheet 'The Observer' was commissioned to investigate child pornography in Holland. Upon discovering that such material was freely available 'under the counter' in many Amsterdam sex shops, he reported his findings to the Dutch police. Only to be told that they had no powers of entry and search in this case. As it would have violated the pornographers' human rights.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

0 funny, 0 helpful.

toneloc24 says on Mar 15, 2007, 08:54:

DG I've unfortunately run across a few foreigners in Colombia and other parts of Latin America who subscribed to the "don't ask, don't tell" theory in regards to the age of girls. They know exactly what they're doing. Therefore, I really feel no remorse when I hear stories like this one.

"PBH is dead!!!!"

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringolondinense says on Mar 15, 2007, 08:54:

Hey Elmo here in old england we have our own version of chicharron!!! Its called "pork scratchings" and is verrry delicious!! it's one of my favourites. The best make is Mr Porky. Yum! You can buy it in most pubs.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Monpirri says on Mar 15, 2007, 09:27:

I agree with DonGringo Colombian authorities and other International agencies have begun to zoom in the matter.

Giant prostitution rings busted
http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/22442

The life spam of a taste bud is ten days

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kalder says on Mar 15, 2007, 12:14:

gringolondinese I'm with you on pork scratchings, up to a point. They're delicious if they're good; but if they're not, they're ghastly. I had a feed of the buggers in a pub in Norwich once and it was like chewing on a bag of loose chippings.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 15, 2007, 12:39:

Rubito and Canada No comment


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 15, 2007, 13:07:

lots of Canadians go to cartegena for the same reason they go to san andres, cuba, costa rica, etc. It's cheap and it's hot.

Some of the cheapest package deals you can find on places like selloffvacations.com are to san andres and cuba. Sometimes $500 for a week including flight, hotel and meals.

Hundreds of thousands of canucks go to Varadero and probably never leave the resort, never meet a cuban who doesn't work at the resort, and have no idea of what cuba is really like. They just think it has great beaches and shitty food, and the power goes out a lot.

Very little to do with sex tourism, I would bet.

By far the biggest pervs I have seen travelling have been the germans :=(

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 15, 2007, 13:12:

oh, and the japanese are in the major leagues of degeneracy. The things I saw in Tokyo...

That men buy schoolgirls' (supposedly) used underwear (each package has a photo of the girl) from vending machines is a drop in the ocean.

they are very imaginative though, I will give them that.

Maybe it's related to the statistic I just read about that said the japs have less sex than anyone?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringolondinense says on Mar 16, 2007, 02:29:

gosh... i have never heard so many bad things said about canadians as on PBH lol!

Yer Kalder about pork scratchings, they are either verry nice or soft and horrible. Before you buy a pack, give it a squeeze to see if the scratchings are soft or not. Thats the rule I live by :-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

gringolondinense says on Mar 16, 2007, 02:32:

i forgot to say the one thing i dont like about canadians is when they wear those silly red and white jackets with maple leaves on the back and "CANADA" in big letters splashed across. No canadian would be seen without the matching baseball cap (red of course) with a big maple leaf stuck on the front. Its like they want the world to know they are canadian or something. Maybe they are trying to avoid being called Americans. ;-). But anyway, i think they look silly.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kalder says on Mar 16, 2007, 05:35:

www.porkscratchingworld.com
www.porkscratchingworld.com

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 16, 2007, 06:12:

Rubito you crack me up
"Most Canucks I know go to Cuba DR and CR etc for sex, #1 reason."
Have you ever heard the saying that "you are who you hang around with?" I don't really know the world you live in obviously. But I would argue that Canadians like most other nationalities travel for relaxation and perhaps the chance that they may find love. Yes Rubito "love" and not just SEX! And of course, there are those who just go to party and have sex. That goes without saying. I am assuming from your take on things that the people in the country you live in only travel and vacation so that they can "bird watch." LOL.

When you start tossing your biased opinions around about Canadians try and remember that they are not much different than Americans. Many have relatives that are Americans and many have close ties with the US.

Again, "Most Canucks I know go to Cuba DR and CR etc for sex, #1 reason." Here is a concept for you Rubito..."Snow Birds." How many Canadians spend the winter or vacation in Florida and Arizona? Do they go there for sex? Too funny lol. It is obvious that you and I and likely allot of other people "I know" travel in different circles. I am not saying that Canadians do not travel to other countries for sex, but you can't paint a picture with the broad brush you enjoy using here on PBH that all Canadians travel only for sex. It is just the "Canadians you are familiar with." I don't know if you are really trying to be funny here but you sure do make me laugh. ROTFLMAO


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 16, 2007, 08:24:

Most Canadians I know go on vacations to the tropics to relax and enjoy the sun. I'm sure if Person X who thinks "most canadians I know go to these places for sex" were to live in the U.K, Spain, Portugal, etc... he'd probably be saying "most British/spanish/portuguese go to these places for sex..."

The majority of Canadians that I know don't look like donkeys and don't have to resort to going to 3rd world countries to find mates, and for them sex is just a perk with going away, and at the 5-star resorts, the sex would certainly not be with the help, it would be with a fellow norteamericano.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 16, 2007, 08:34:

if you are talking about single guys travelling to places like cuba and (I suppose, never been to these places) costa rica, DR, I think rubito is right, many would be going for sex. Probably true for most single women too, thought they'd never admit it.

But I think (?) the vast majority of Canadians heading south are looking for sun and sand, and there are literally millions of these people each winter.

I suspect the single guy/girl component is miniscule in comparison?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 16, 2007, 12:16:

Good point But I find there's plenty of sex with no strings attached in Canada, crumbs, moreso than with strings attached. People are gradually lifting the chains of sexual bashfulness and exploring many many things. I still think that for most, vacation is vacation. One always wants sex with no strings attached, and will find it if that's what want is wanted, in Colombia or Canada.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 16, 2007, 12:25:

the ones who go to cuba are the package tourists, not snowbirds (who I guess are defined by spending the whole winter down south).

But there are thousands and thousands of these package tours to varadero, cayo coco and other beach resorts in cuba. Take a look at any discount travel site, all the cheap trips are to cuba, DR, and there are endless amounts of them.

I'm pretty sure Pierre Lemieux (?) or some other well known ex-hockey player owns a hotel (in partnership with the gov't of course) in one of the cuban resorts, catering to all the french canadians.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 16, 2007, 12:29:

oops, serge savard owned a hotel in cayo coco until 2005

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jay1234 says on Mar 16, 2007, 15:22:

The generalizations kill me Not sure what it adds to the discussion. The broad strokes (no pun intended) can be debated round and round. What makes me really curious is absent the illegal or immoral conduct talked about by the OP, why so many people on PBH are so interested in others sex and/or personal lives. If they are going someplace for sex, so what? And what makes any of the people here an expert on others motivations?There are many reasons why people would want to date Colombian women. Maybe they just want sex. Maybe they love the country and are looking for a mate from there. Maybe they went there and happened to fall in love. Either way, why does someone else's opinion matter? And why do any of you think your opinions matter to the people involved. Too funny.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Lostgringo says on Mar 16, 2007, 21:56:

Well said Jay
you summed it up nicely.


welovebogota.com "Luxury Apartment and rooms at reasonable prices"

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 16, 2007, 23:07:

yeah jay1234 your point is well-taken, but it's pretty pointless to discuss 'ethics' on this forum, let alone forum decorum, as i've found out before.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 17, 2007, 10:21:

ok fair enough I think that it is changing though, as i said, sex is becoming 'deseriousized' by the younger Canadian population (if that makes sense) so there is more sex 'with no strings attached' now in Montreal/Tdot than say, 5 years ago. Remember, I'm still fairly young. I've also found that girls in Colombia are very 'clingy', in the sense that they get attached very easily. Other latin american countries as well, even the girls I only treated as friends, and it caused me quite some discomfort on several occasions. From my experiences, I would say that sex w/ no strings attached has come by to me much more easily in Canada than in L. Am. That being said... I agree, i don't see Canada being quite on the same plain as L. Am in that respect, since I believe sex is more a part of the culture in Colombia, at least liberally speaking, there's less of a social stigma towards promiscuity.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 17, 2007, 10:26:

When's easter? yeah sounds good Rubito, don't see why not, unless easter falls in may. I'm heading down to New York actually for my first time at the end of April, to fly to Medellin. Since the Canadian gov. feels the need to tax me $300CAD for the right to fly out of a Canadian airport, I figured it woudl be cheaper to go to NY and fly from JFK, even with bus fair/accom. included. Do you know the cheapest way to get from Montreal to New York by any chance?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on Mar 17, 2007, 14:29:

This has been a good week That's why I get upset about the idea of 'sexual tourists'. In Colombia you aren't talking about some tiny sliver, you're talking about a MAJORITY of the tourists.

For years I've said the MAJORITY of the tourists come to Colombia for the women. I think "back packers" was mentioned but I didn't see much support. Why do backpackers decide to do their thing in Colombia? I can see the conversation "Hey, lets go to Colombia, I hear they have some fine women and while we're there we can do some "back pak'n"

Thanks for the thumbs up.

FWIW: A majority of the time you have your FACTS correct. I think you were the first person who realized and stated the true cost structure. I guess that's why I like you so much. You must be squeezing some of those items to accomplish the costs.

BTW: I'm still wondering how you got an electric bill a year or so ago for 18,000 COP in an estrato 4 ? I still don't see how, even using 5 watt lights.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.