Selling a house in USA to move to Colombia...

webmanco says on May 19, 2008, 18:46:

Ask GringoLoid

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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durito says on May 19, 2008, 18:49:

phoenix is not a good market right now.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 18:54:

It is a beautiful house, and we are so looking forward to be together here in Colombia!

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podborski says on May 19, 2008, 18:57:

sorry but Rubito's right...he's selling low and buying high now...not a good strategy.

I'd suggest trying to rent out the US house and just rent in Colombia too.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 19:09:

Thank you for your advice podborski, but my bf just wants to burn the bridge behind him and not come back to the states.

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slguy says on May 19, 2008, 19:22:

hmmmm....bridge-burning's rarely a smart move...and in this case prolly a pretty dumb one economically.but it's his bridge to burn, if he wants to, of course.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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gringoloid says on May 19, 2008, 19:51:

Rubito and I have always agreed on this..................we're far from reaching the bottom. Just wait until this $125 a barrel oil hits the pumps in about a year.

I sold my home in California last month and I was really lucky as I see it as I got a pretty good price under some difficult circumstances.

What I did was new paint and carpet and fixed any little thing that was wrong. I left a brand new $3000 washer and dryer that I used about 25 times.

I also dropped the asking price below anyone elses in the neighborhood and this was a tough one.

The lady is very happy right now, but I don't think she will be happy a year from now. She paid me too much.

Who are the three blind men?

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MitchAlvarez says on May 19, 2008, 19:52:

angelita digale al novio que cuanto por la casa y la novia? cuanto vale el paquete? jaja

"Ingrid callate la jeta!! Stay in France"

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slguy says on May 19, 2008, 19:53:

gl...where the hell does one buy a 3k washer/dryer?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Gator says on May 19, 2008, 19:53:

While I don't agree with Rubito on way down it's going to be tough for a couple of years. If he really wants to get out from under the price is going to have to be whacked. Hopefully he will make enough pesos to buy in Bogotá

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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gringoloid says on May 19, 2008, 19:56:

My washer and dryer did silk; a $400 addon that I really didn't need. I didn't know I would be moving to Colombia when I bought it.

I'm very tall so I bought the platforms for the machines at $200 each.

Who are the three blind men?

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 20:02:

Thank you guys for all your comments, you all are so kind ;)

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 20:03:

Quote: Thank you for your advice podborski, but my bf just wants to burn the bridge behind him and not come back to the states.
========
Oh,, well if he wants to burn his bridge behind him and never return,, then,, what the hell,, let it go back to the mortgage company and live off,, well,, whatever works.

BTW: I wouldn't believe much of what Rubito says,, so far it's fairly obvious he has a knack for saying and doing the wrong thing. It gets worse if he's been sniffing second hand smoke.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 20:08:

poco, please explain me what do you mean by: "what the hell,, let it go back to the mortgage company and live off,, well,, whatever works." my english is not so good for understanding your idea.

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gringoloid says on May 19, 2008, 20:12:

he's saying to put the keys into the mailbox and just walk away from it.

Who are the three blind men?

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 20:12:

Quote: poco, please explain me what do you mean by: "what the hell,, let it go back to the mortgage company and live off,, well,, whatever works." my english is not so good for understanding your idea.
=======
If he can't sell the house for SOMETHING more than the mortgage AND while he is trying,, he's making payments,, paying taxes, etc,,

THEN:

live in it for FREE, don't make payments !!!,, or better yet,,, rent it,, yes,, rent it,, keep the rent, don't make payments and pocket 100% of the rent,,, he might have renters for,,, maybe a year?

Someday the mortgage company will repossess,, but,, who cares,, he's in Colombia.

I'd assume he is either rich and does not need money to live in Colombia or has some kind of income.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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chester says on May 19, 2008, 20:13:

tell me what neighborhood (barrio) he lives in, what size house, and i will tell you the price to set.

you're welcome.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 20:17:

Thank you Poco, now I got your idea. He is not rich. In fact, I have a decent job here and I will support him while he gets a job as english teacher here or something like that. He wants to be Poorbuthappy! Your idea is cool! thank you for your advice bro!

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 20:23:

Thank you chester for your interest. Let me ask him about it and I will let you know in a while ;)

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 20:26:

Toooooo bad he's not rich,, this is a nice house in the Scottsdale area of Phoenix.

http://tinyurl.com/67dkk6

He might drop the price?

This is also a link to the Phoenix MLS,,, who knows,, is your boy friend really selling? If so,, it should be listed with the MLS service,, I mean,,, he wouldn't be BS'n you would he?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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angelcanada says on May 19, 2008, 20:28:

Lower the price..

MY NAME IS ANGEL. I AM COLOMBIAN AND LIVED IN CANADA AND THE USA FOR 18 YEARS. I RETURNED TO MEDELLIN AND WOULD LIKE TO OFFER SERVICES AS INTERPRETER/ ESCORT AND DRIVER. I CAN ALSO HELP IN FINDING SHORT TERM APT. RENTALS.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 20:29:

"who knows,, is your boy friend really selling? If so,, it should be listed with the MLS service,, I mean,,, he wouldn't be BS'n you would he?"
______________
______________
should it be on that website? if not, it means he is BS me? :( Doo doo occurs!!!

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GregYohn says on May 19, 2008, 20:31:

Hola!

You can expect 6 months to a year to sell the house!

12VOIP.com gives free calls to Colombia.Greg

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gringoloid says on May 19, 2008, 20:36:

angelita...........he's saying that it should be with the MLS, multiple listing service that I think most or all realtors belong to, not necessarily that particular website.

if i were you though, i would not jump into a fast relationship with this guy.

Who are the three blind men?

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tejasmarcos says on May 19, 2008, 20:42:

"My washer and dryer did silk"

dude, never admit that with you buds at the poker table.

"He is not rich. In fact, I have a decent job here and I will support him while he gets a job as english teacher here or something like that."

got any sisters angelita? ;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 20:45:

Quote: angelita...........he's saying that it should be with the MLS, multiple listing service that I think most or all realtors belong to, not necessarily that particular website.
==========
The website IS THE MLS. It appears the MLS links through ALL realtors but there could be a main link. Each realtor with a website has a slightly different version but it appears it is using the same data base. I'd say the MLS is setup as a marketing tool.

Using the link above and clicking the NEW SEARCH button you will be sent to this screen,, which says:

Search all listings in the Arizona regional MLS service.

It also says:
The data relating to real estate for sale on this website comes in part from the Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service.

You should NOT have a problem finding his house,, if it's listed. The MLS will also show comparables.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Lisa Zee says on May 19, 2008, 20:48:

Angelita, cuanto cuesta la casa de tu novio?; es esa mansion?. A lo mejor yo se quien quiera comprarla. Mas informacion, please!

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tejasmarcos says on May 19, 2008, 20:57:

LZ - I've got one in Fort Worth for you! Bueno precio!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on May 19, 2008, 21:05:

Investors may find that they are jumping in too soon. With over 54,000 homes still on the market in Phoenix, home prices remain in freefall. Falling home prices and high gas prices may see these homes becoming a "second wave" of foreclosures in outlying areas.

Median Price

The median price continues to drop rapidly. April’s median price of $210,000 was down 21% from last year’s $265,000. The median price in March was $220,000. The median price peaked in June 2006 at $267,000.

The drop in median the median price is a measure of the mix of homes sold, and is not always an accurate reflection of "same house" appreciation. The mix of homes sold has changed significantly:

In practical terms, this means that "same house" price drops are greater in the higher price ranges, as fewer homes are selling in that price range.

In Phoenix, as in other areas hard hit by a declining house market, interest in foreclosures has increased as prices have fallen. Both Phoenix and Las Vegas saw YOY sales increases in April. High inventory and a cooling economy however, are liable to continue to depress prices and show that this is a "sucker’s rally". "Recovery" is still a long way off.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 21:15:

Humm, some folks will make a lot money and other will wish they'd never owned a house because they thought they could make FAST MONEY.

How to tell the bottom:

When you can purchase a house and rent it 10 months out of 12 and make a profit,, (not with a tax write off !!!) that's the bottom or close enough. This is the point investors start buying.

The government should stay out of the housing business,, totally,, this has happened before and the market takes care of the problem.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on May 19, 2008, 21:17:

"There is actually a way you can do this without negatively affecting your credit rating in most cases."

- voluntary foreclosure is still a big hit to the credit report. it is just coded a little differently and shows you cooperated with the bank.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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billyb says on May 19, 2008, 21:28:

Five Cities With Biggest Decline in Home Values
by AnnaMaria Andriotis
May 16th, 2008

With home values continuing to plummet across the country, it's become clear that the real estate meltdown is far from over.

Values for single-family homes in 14 major U.S. cities posted double-digit declines from their respective peaks, according to the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices, which tracks prices of single-family homes. On a national level, home values are down 12% since December 2006. And according to Beth Ann Bovino, a senior economist at Standard & Poor's, they could drop another 10% by the end of the year.

"Things are accelerating downwards [and] in most cases the fall gets steeper and steeper every month," says David Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at Standard & Poor's.



The biggest culprit for this downturn: rampant speculation on property values during the past several years. "The areas that have seen a huge amount of speculation...are the ones that got nailed," says Blitzer. "The farther up prices went the farther down they've come." This was especially true in the Sun Belt region. Cities like Las Vegas, Miami and Phoenix, which are popular for either their beaches or deserts, lured investors looking for rental properties that would appreciate in value so they could later sell them to baby boomer retirees for a sizable profit, explains Danielle Babb, a real estate analyst and professor of economics and statistics Northcentral University in Arizona.

Foreclosures have also contributed to the decline in home values. During the first quarter, foreclosures were up 112% from the same period in 2007, according to RealtyTrac, which lists foreclosed properties. As a result, there's now a glut of homes for sale on the market and a lot of very nervous mortgage lenders reluctant to give out loans.

Here are the five cities that have taken the hardest hit in home values.

Las Vegas

Everyone in Vegas knows that it pays to have Lady Luck on your side. Unfortunately for home buyers, Lady Luck has come and gone. Single-family-home values in Sin City rose a jaw-dropping 135% between January 2000 and September 2006. But then the winning streak ended. Home values have fallen 24.5% from their peak, the largest decline in the nation, says Blitzer.

Of course, the tables could always turn. "It's still one of the fastest growing cities...and one of the strongest economies in the nation," says Kendra Todd, real estate broker and host of HGTV's "My House is Worth What?"

Miami

Miami may be best known for its beaches, nightlife and art scene, but it has recently gained another, albeit dubious, distinction: It's believed to have the highest number of vacant condos in the country, according to the National Association of Realtors.

It wasn't just Miami's condo market that experienced a boom and bust; single-family homes also took a dramatic hit. Speculators who couldn't afford to invest in Miami's pricey luxury condos bought up the more affordable single-family homes in the city, only to abandon them when things got rough, says Standard & Poor's chief economist, David Wyss. That's helped push values of single-family homes 22% lower. "[Miami] doesn't have quite the biggest decline, but it's dropped very far very fast," says Blitzer.

Phoenix

Tumbleweeds aren't exactly taking over the streets of Phoenix, but the city has seen quite an exodus from a couple of years ago when speculators and real estate developers descended on it en masse. More than 67,100 single-family homes were built in Phoenix between 2000 and 2006, according to the Census Bureau, with home values rising by 127%.

Once home values started to unravel, however, speculators started abandoning their rental and investment properties. "People will go to much longer lengths to avoid defaulting on a primary residence than on a secondary home," says Wyss. Now, home values are down 24% from their peak.

Los Angeles

Not only has suburban sprawl added to L.A's traffic problems, but it's also a big reason home prices here have fallen by 22% since their October 2006 peak.

Homes that were located as far away as a one- or two-hour drive from the city's center were being pitched to buyers as properties whose values would appreciate as fast as those in the city, says Babb. However, that never happened, she says.

San Diego

Strong job growth, great weather and a smattering of palm trees: Who wouldn't want to live in San Diego? But what makes a place desirable also tends to make it more expensive. Home values here rose by 150% between January 2000 and December 2005. At its peak, this city had the highest ratio (14 to 1) of median home prices vs. median incomes in the country. Homes here were worth about 14 times the amount of money owners made each year, says Wyss. The national average was 3.4 to 1 — even at the peak of the boom in 2006, he says.

"The expectations for this city — that it was employing rapidly and that everyone wants to move here — got way too high," says Wyss. Home values are now 24% below the peak.

Copyrighted, SmartMoney.com. All Rights Reserved.

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poco says on May 19, 2008, 21:35:

Quote: "There is actually a way you can do this without negatively affecting your credit rating in most cases."

- voluntary foreclosure is still a big hit to the credit report. it is just coded a little differently and shows you cooperated with the bank.
=================
Who cares? Especially if you don't intend to return?

Why not go ahead a charge up your credit cards and don't pay them either.

Heck,, I bet you could take the money you got from your credit cards and convert it to Pesos,,, then,, when the exchage rate is 1000 pesos per dollar,, why,, you'd be rich !!!!

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on May 19, 2008, 21:37:

"Heck,, I bet you could take the money you got from your credit cards and convert it to Pesos,,, then,, when the exchage rate is 1000 pesos per dollar,, why,, you'd be rich !!!!"

and when you decide to return to the USA because you are no longer RICH after 3 years - then what?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 21:45:

Thank you gringoloid. I have been dating him for more than one year and he has been here several times so I think I know him enough like for wanting to marry him and even more, support him economically as he will arrive here without job. Anyway, please give me a light on how to look if he is really selling the house in that MSL you mention.

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billyb says on May 19, 2008, 21:51:

The main thing is, does he have equity in the house, or is he underwater, if he's underwater and does not intend to come back soon, do as Gringoloid says and mail in the keys. It is called jinglemail.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 21:52:

No Lisa Zee, my bf house is not a mansion. It is a decent 2 bedrooms house, but has an amazing view to the south mountain park. It has a nice pool and a cool back yard.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 19, 2008, 21:53:

Just type the address of his house into one of the MLS sites that covers Arizona. If it's for sale and listed with an agent, it will show up.

Note: Don't post the address on this site (PBH) unless you want everyone to know who your boyfriend is, where he lives, how much he paid for his house and whether he pays his real estate taxes on time.

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 21:54:

hey guys, how can I stick an image of the house here?

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 22:28:

Thank you Tinto for your advice. In fact I have just found the house and it made me feel so happy! Seeing the picture there made me feel pleased. Here it comes the complete information about it: 1,000 square feet, 2 bedrooms, one bathroom, price: 230,000.

I really love Poorbuthappy community! you guys are so kind giving advices and help. Thanks a lot!

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angelitabogota says on May 19, 2008, 22:39:

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slguy says on May 19, 2008, 22:49:

all due respect to my desert-loving bretheren....i'd rather tke a beating every day than live in the friggin desert.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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BillBigD says on May 19, 2008, 23:00:

Poco, we've made about 60% in one year buying in Bogota says Rubito This is the same type of bubble we have been talking about. But it is different this time I guess. Or maybe they don't happen in Colombia. LOL Don't know when but it will happen. Real Estate is like the game musicial chairs. Someone ends up in a deal that doesn't work.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 19, 2008, 23:01:

Uh-oh! A single guy with a chest freezer in the garage? I'd be careful.

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houstongal says on May 20, 2008, 00:46:

1,000 sq feet, 2 bedrooms....that really limits the number of people who would be interested in such a property. I'm not surprised that he's having a tough time selling, especially in this housing market.

A house this size would primarily be attractive to single (starter home) or retired people. And at that price (I admit I know nothing about the Pheonix market), it would be difficult for a single person to afford now that the 0% mortgages are gone. Putting down 10 or 20% on $230,000 is a lot of money for a lot of people.

Angelita - Your bf may be waiting a long time for this house to sell. Good luck!

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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tomtom33 says on May 20, 2008, 03:26:

I sold a house in Madison, WI, in 2006. It had been on the market for over 3 years, and I probably lost 100K on the deal. Today? I would be lucky to sell it in 5 years and lose 200K.

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lpdiver says on May 20, 2008, 04:43:

OTOH...You never know when tradegy may strike and a horrible fire break out.

t

"cook some rice!"

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webmanco says on May 20, 2008, 04:46:

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Brians says on May 20, 2008, 05:28:

I will tell you this...people are far too pesimistic towards the US currently. Although we may see a long period of time before we have a rebound in liquidity the bottom is close to being realized in housing prices in the US. One rule of thumb for any investor which 99% of the individuals don't do because they are influenced by dailey news headlines: "Invest were capital is scarce". Capital is scarce today in the US and especially in the housing market. The exact opposite has occured in Emerging Markets. Capital is abundantly available because of the commodity boom etc.. What happens when these prices subside somewhat? Capital subsides with it. Look at Dubai etc.. These are the next real estate bubbles in the world in my estimation. Colombia is a bit different but will probably be under pressure as less capital will be available for FDI in various countries.In 2006 70% of the worlds economies experienced accelerating growth. Today only 2 of 35 countries in our global valuation model are experiencing accelerating growth. So if investing in emerging markets was the correct strategy when 70% of the world's economies were accelerating then I find it difficult to believe it is the correct strategy if 94% of the world's economies are decelerating. This is getting off topic a little but I thought I would post it only because reading posts from Rubi and Roci everyday which are constantly overly optimistic in my estimation on Colombia and pessimistic on US are riddled with flaws. I respect their opinions and I did invest in Colombia in 2006 when I felt there was an opportunity. Now it is more difficult in terms of prices and currency. However the US is probably one of the better opportunities in the world today. Selling US assets for Colombian assets is a few years too late unless you can find the right opportunites. I will still invest in Colombia now but only because it is in my longer term plan of dollar cost averaging in and not because I think I will make money in dollar terms. Sorry for going off topic.

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robi666 says on May 20, 2008, 05:37:

Brian, I agree.

Again, off topic, but, I believe, there are still local opportunities in Colombia. Not everywhere is like Medellin, Cartagena or Bogotà.
One example: Santa Marta (El Rodadero) did not experience an high rise in real estate prices, yet.
You can still buy at around 1,000,000 per sqm on or very near the beach.

But it is coming: 100% increase in the next two years. Let's see if I am right...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tomtom33 says on May 20, 2008, 05:40:

I agree with Brian as well. In fact I may just buy a house in my area of the US, rent it out for 3-5 years, and sell it.

And I think that you can still get some deals in estratos 3 and 4 in Medellín today. But my future money is in Guarne.

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robi666 says on May 20, 2008, 05:55:

Absolutely lovely... but someway Guarne still makes me nervous, Tom.
It was not the safest spot on earth for a gringo just few years ago...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 06:00:

i saw a deal or two in guarne, they both had major foundation issues.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 07:47:

this phoenix home is going to be a tough sale.

i cannot believe a ranch style siding home with major power lines behind it is selling for $230 a square foot. even if the owner is well financed with a cheap fixed rate loan, he is looking at more than $2000 a month in rental (if not more depending on property tax situation in AZ) just to cover monthly costs.

here's the bright side. mortgages are harder to get approved these days. that may work in your favor. put a for sale by owner sign in the front yard and discount the price to the payoff amount owed to the bank. create an "owner carry" situation or "owner wrap" financing scenario to help someone out there that cannot currently get approved for a mortgage. i like divorce situations in which irrational partners have destroyed each other's credit rating, but still have good income. structure a 3 year "wrap" with small bumps to offset property tax increases and a balloon payoff at the end. this should allow a divorcee enough time to fix their credit issues and achieve a mortgage approval at the end of the 36th month.

you are hoping that a correction will occur in 3 years and that you will not be "upside down". if so, you can always create a 12-24 month extension of the original contract.

* what is the payoff? do you know the current value of the home based on comparible sales in the area?

private email me for more info and/or contracts to use....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 20, 2008, 07:54:

I'm surprised at the price, too. Just a S.W.A.G. but I'd say that house is "median" or below and according to the chart above, probably isn't worth more than $200-210K. Even at that price it seems high given the size, only one bathroom and the power lines. There are thousands just like it - and suburbs full of larger, more modern ones - in the Phoenix area. Maybe the location of the neighborhood is good, but if it's just a cookie cutter suburb and not close to anything, your boyfriend may have a long wait unless he drops the price quite a bit.

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 08:08:

"Uh-oh! A single guy with a chest freezer in the garage? I'd be careful."
Tinto, could you please explain me what do you mean? my english is not good enough to get your idea, thank you!!

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houstongal says on May 20, 2008, 08:13:

I didn't even notice the power lines. I just thought it wasn't a special house. No curb appeal whatsoever. Nothing to catch my attention and make me want to see the interior. Does this guy even know how to make a house look marketable?

Just watch shows on TLC or HGTV and he can quickly learn the tricks to make a house sell. "Designed to Sell" on HGTV is a good show.

Applying some tricks and lowering the price (again, I don't know the market but $230k does seem a bit much for a 1bd/1ba house) could get this thing sold. Plus Tejas' wrap idea could help make the house a bit more attractive.

"It is now official: there's no place on earth where you will not find a Peruvian band." David Sedaris

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 20, 2008, 08:15:

It was a bad joke, a reference to Jeffrey Dahmer, another single man with a chest freezer.

A chest freezer is big enough to hold a couple of hundred pounds of food, which is way more storage capacity than most single men need . Don't worry, though, on second glance it looks like the white image in the garage could be a washer and a dryer rather than a repository for human remains.

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 08:17:

jejejeje you are so funny Tinto!
I gotta go back to teach class...thank you for your comments!

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 08:32:

"but rather some intermediate step"

- could you please elaborate?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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nine inch nails says on May 20, 2008, 08:57:

Oh no honey. I see your house and nice and I'm sure very well kept but I afraid maybe you paid too much.

Not tryin to scare you just another opine. But it could be much much worse. At least your house is in the under $250K range. In south Florida so many distress properties in the $500K-$1 millions range and they will fall farther and faster. In tony Weston alone (a roughly 9 square mile community in west Borward) I found 175 bank owned properties in my search last month, proly many more now.

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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nine inch nails says on May 20, 2008, 08:59:

I would like to invest in a few but afraid it will go down even much further as others have elaborated. Plus there will be a glut of rentals thus making the rents go down.

Now I see why people simply walk away...

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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rjstuff says on May 20, 2008, 09:42:

The housing market is in the toilet - here in Denver also. The house as I see it; is way way overpriced. The home facing mine was on the market for almost a year plus. It went from 255,000 asking price to 165,000 sold price; its over 1750 sq ft, 4 or 5 bedrooms, 3 baths etc. etc.
I am talking Denver market prices, but look at the asking price and sold price - $90,000 less in the end!
Now, other solutions and possible problems with it - You could rent the house and wait for the market to improve. If he owes a lot of money on the house - then he may never recover his equity. If he has a large equity then he could recover it but when? 2 years, 3 years or more. If renting the house, it becomes a commercial property and is subject to capital gains taxes when you sell it.
(If you do not rent it, then you can pocket all your gains for selling the primary resident (as long as you held it for long enough etc.))
As some one else said, if he owes a lot of money - then he could walk away from it. His credit will be done and he will be subject to collection form the mortgage company but then there are many others doing the same thing.
One question - this is a very small house - but you say it has a pool. Is it an above ground pool - 8 feet Diameter type or something else? Yikes the Powerline in the back! Subtract $50,000 more from the selling price - just for that.
Good Luck

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gringoloid says on May 20, 2008, 09:45:

I'm very familiar with this type of consruction in Arizona and Nevada and agree he is asking too much. $175,000 may be able to do it.

you see those high tension wires in the background? they 'buzz' all the time and emit some unfavorable rays. i wouldn't want to live near those wires.

Who are the three blind men?

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 20, 2008, 09:50:

OK, experts, how much do you think this basic house was pre-boom... somewhere between 1995 and 2000? $80K?

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 10:43:

Tinto - a search of the MLS (sales comps) from that time period would give you the answer. It is what the appraisers would have used and what the banks would look at to make sure the selling price was in line.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 10:46:

I would like to know what would happen if my boyfriend just put the keys into the mailbox and just walk away from it. Would it bring us problems later?

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Brians says on May 20, 2008, 11:05:

Si

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 11:27:

Brians - off topic- I am not and have never been US pesimistic. Maybe a little in regards to median income and overall job market. On Gringoloid's chart I am in the middle specifically that the US rebound happens in less than two years with only 2 quarters of documented recession if that.

My peeve here is that people somehow attribute the entire Latin American surge in economy to the weakening of the US dollar.(Apples and oranges). When they speak of currency rates they assume that only the US is at play in the relationship.

I see much of Latin America holding their own economically and currencies being solid as well vs. the dollar. Whatever the USD does against the Euro, Japan or China is not part of my COP/USD ramblings.

As much as I like Rubi please keep me out of his group. Better company there would be Gringoloid. These guys are calling a depression, looting, famine, marshal law. I think and have always thought that US will be just fine, cycles are normal and the US is in a low cycle right now. Nothing more nothing less. Happens all the time.

I see a peak in Colombian realestate now and for the next few quarters and plan on buying realestate here as early as summer 2009. Depends. At that time I see a better exchange rate for the USD than in the 6 months from now and certainly better housing prices than now and in the next year.

If my investment profile were different, speaking realestate only, I'd be buying US realestate like crazy today.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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dwr says on May 20, 2008, 12:07:

Yeah. I don't see that house bringing 250,000 or even 175,000. I would say somewhere in the very low 100's. For 250 you can buy a wicked house in South Florida right now.

Right now the move is just the opposite. Good time to sell your house in Colombia and buy in the USA.

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dwr says on May 20, 2008, 12:08:

That Pathfinder would sell well here.

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 12:09:

That house in Hawaii Kai, would bring $500k right now...

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 12:36:

That house in SoHo would take in 2 million and the property about 8 million. What's the point in relocating the house?

dwr selling in Colombia and buying in the US is nice. If you are a realestate speculator.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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dwr says on May 20, 2008, 12:39:

Or if you are contemplating leaving Colombia

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 12:51:

But then you're stuck in NY......what a god forsaken place that is...jajajja

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 13:39:

a foreclosure would hit your boyfriend's credit. banks rarely seek restitution for losses. i believe a mortgage foreclosure will remain on the credit for 7 years - maybe 10. however, after as little as 2-3 years banks will once again consider a mortgage approval for more down payment (20% ) and higher interest rates (8.5% - 9.5% currently).

it is not a death blow by any means.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tomtom33 says on May 20, 2008, 14:10:

You are correct about Guarne, Robi. However, my novia has lived there for many years and knows the town well. I bought a building lot and have approval to build 4 mid-priced apartments on it. Then those apartments will be sold to Colombian families. There is a shortage of units like this in Guarne.

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 14:24:

Hopefully, somebody who likes the desert view will fall in love with the back yard! I am aware he will have to lower the price due to the house market right now, but who cares, we want to be together ASAP and be Poorbuthappy in Colombia! ;)

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dwr says on May 20, 2008, 14:43:

Didn't see the backyard. Price up to 175.000

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Tinto (Moderator) says on May 20, 2008, 14:50:

I don't know about $175K -- a body of water plus high tension wires -- that's like putting out the WELCOME mat for Godzilla.

;-)

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 14:51:

Is the market that bad in arizona???

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 14:52:

You are so funny Tinto! hilarious! This morning you made me go back to teach my classes laughing with the comment about the chest freezer! and now you mention Godzilla!

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tejasmarcos says on May 20, 2008, 15:02:

you can't guess prices folks. comps dictate prices - atleast what the bank is willing to loan.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Brians says on May 20, 2008, 15:03:

Off topic once again...Roci I take back my comments about you and being overly bearish. However you say you moved to Medellin expecting a 1000 peso exchange rate and now expect 500. Anyway we can agree to disagree buddy as I will be the first to admit I did not expect to see 1750 currently.

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 16:02:

Brian I hope to see 2300 again - but only if it is because the US surges ahead incredibly, narrows the int rate yield differential, cuts the M1 etc... and NOT because Colombia suffers political or economic problems.

Also remember that there is a wide audience on this forum and not everyone is at your level. I oftimes post toungue and cheek and grossly exaggerate and leave out important information that the masses will not be interested in. With the English language coming to Colombia and with the relationship with the US - hell even Kyoto protocol possibly having an effect, I am bullish on Latin America as a whole and especially Colombia. But I am not all that bearish on the US. If I had the money I would buy a condo or two as income properties in the US.

For the record: I am expecting to see 1000 ONE DAY, and I am basing my needed income, derivred from the US, as if the COP were to one day hypothetically hit 500. Me being conservative and allowing a sizable cushion. I only mention the 500 in one post (http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/can-i-retire-at-my-age-with-my-s...),

My quote in that post "I picked an exchange rate of 500 COP to a US Dollar. If it stays above that for a long time I retire early or take more vacations."

I live here for the absence of stress. The last thing I want is to be concerned about the exchange rate. I refuse to be stressed out over my exposure to something I can't control. I have to hedge or plan accordingly. I am doing both.

I have stated that I see the dollar at 1400 COP by November and a correction back up to the 1500/1600 range late 2009. However going forward from there I see the USD/COP at around 1100-1400 in the next 3-5 years. I feel the 500 rate may one day be seen again but by that time I will be ahead of it and not too worried.

Also I don't plan on kicking the bucket and will need income generated for another 45 years give or take. So seeing 500 in that time may not be all that unrealistic. I don't have to tell you that the rate was 500 in 1990 and didn't hit 1000 until Jan 10th 1996 and didn't break 1100 until the 4th of July 1997 and traded between 1200 and 1600 all of 1998. That's not too long ago but it was before anyone here including myself started counting - except Douglas of course.

When I prognosticate about the Peso my term is much longer than your average poster here who is retiring now and needs to live for the next 20 or so.

LMK next time you're here. We'll go to the sports bar and bet on Philly.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 16:07:

If anyone wants to PM me I will send you a SpreadSheet I got from the Banco de la Republica with the daily COP/USD closes from Jan 1991 until close of 2007. I know it can be gotten from their webby but I ain't digging for the link.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 16:09:

Tinto that Godzilla comment mentioning the high tension wires was freakin uproarious.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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gringoloid says on May 20, 2008, 16:35:

""These guys are calling a depression, looting, famine, marshal law. ""

hey i never said that.................this could be one of the great money making times of all time. I'm calling 'inflation', which i think is worse than depression, looting, famine and marshal law.

Inflation is one of the worst things that can happen to an economy.

This is an election year........they're going to pull all the tricks...............If McCain is behind, Bush may pull a few hundred million barrels of $20 oil out of the strategic oil reserve just before the election. Clinton did it in 1996 to force the price of heating oil down and got himself reelected.

The fun starts after this election nonsense.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on May 20, 2008, 16:40:

but back on topic................angelita, i didn't know the house had a pool and spa............that makes it worth a little more. We still don't know what neighborhood.

But I think dwr is closest on the value.

Who are the three blind men?

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 16:46:

Quick question....when there was a 1000 exhcange or so....how much did things cost??? anyone know?? i'm curious.....obviously if things are 1/2 the price of now...that makes a difference....??? thanks..

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gringoloid says on May 20, 2008, 16:50:

i paid 20 cents to see that Godzilla movie in 1957.

Who are the three blind men?

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angelitabogota says on May 20, 2008, 17:16:

Thank you guys for all your comments, they gave me some lights. Hopefully I can persuade my bf on renting the house and moving here instead of waiting more time...I do not want to get old waiting for him here!!!

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BillBigD says on May 20, 2008, 19:55:

Frank-where in Hawaii do you live?
Rubito- I say give it another 2 years or so and perhaps up to another 100%.. We will see LOL

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miamimike says on May 20, 2008, 20:30:

Have you tried a Swap( "Permuta") in Español by placing an Ad on Craigslist/Colombia or Mercadolibre, Metrocuadrado? If not, look into it Please. A Person in Miami recently did a trade and it worked out well for both parties. And Craigslist is a freebie,,,You may be surprised how many buyers&Sellers are turning to this method in this market,,,Think outside the Box in today's tough Market,,,,BTW, How much equity does your BF have in his Home as the above methods work best if you own the home/condo outright,,,

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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BillBigD says on May 20, 2008, 20:31:

100% in two years you are on.

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 20:38:

Hi Bill.... maui and kahala.. do you like the islands??? Awsome..

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BillBigD says on May 20, 2008, 20:43:

Rubito-Quite a difference. So did you change the bet on gringo also. LOL Besides I thought we were talking your place.
Frank-go to Maui quite a bit.

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Frank Rizzo says on May 20, 2008, 20:47:

Kihei ?? Ever driven up to Haleakala mid day.....85 degrees on the beach and freakin snow storms at the top...loco...

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BillBigD says on May 20, 2008, 20:52:

Wailea kei is where I stay. Been to Haleakala but it never snowed. Like going as the stock market closes at 10am or 11am and you can hit the beach for the rest of the day and go home and hit Happy Hour. Good times

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Lisa Zee says on May 20, 2008, 21:10:

Angelita, I am serious. Give me more information. Like how much does he owe to the bank, the property taxes, where in phoenix is the house? all info you can, I know someone looking for a house in Arizona. Thanks.

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CatGirl says on May 20, 2008, 21:20:

Ok - Lisa....did you skip Rubito's comment? jejeje

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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Lisa Zee says on May 20, 2008, 21:40:

You bet!

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rocinante says on May 20, 2008, 21:53:

Mr Loid I'm not looking up your posts now but you and Rubi were talking recession and then depression, major terrorist attacks against the US, coupled with the dollar crumbling against all currencies and yes massive inflation. No?

My "Looting Marshal Law etc..." was another way of describing what I just wrote above - you and Rubi's predictions for the US. I'd have to look up the exact posts and there are quite a few, with Rubi being more adamant than yourself.

Gotta run and listen to The Game featuring 50 Cent.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Brians says on May 21, 2008, 03:58:

Rubi is that bet in dollar terms? I will take that bet we need to pick the index. I really don't know any other way to track your assumption without a reference. I also want to convert it into dollars to factor out a higher impact of inflation in Colombia. PM me and we can come up with a $ amount that works for you as well as an index but we need to convert this index to dollars as this is the core basis of your theory. So if I am wrong you'll win walking away as I expect real estate to track inflation plus a margin in Colombia so a 25% move in Colombia real estate is expected by me. However dollar rates should wipe this out. So send me a PM.

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 07:33:

roci.......it's no big deal, but you make it sound very harsh and that it will affect all americans. so far i'm dodging this bullet and for the past few weeks i've been studying how to really play these upcoming events and I'm making a pile of money here. my friends here have received private mails detailing what i'm doing. BEFOREHAND, i might add.

i think 5% of americans are going to clean up and i hope to one of them.

As I write this, the market has been open 51 minutes and i already made $401.21 on a position I opened on Monday. of course i haven't closed the position yet as i hope to make more.

For me, this is the greatest economic times i've ever lived under because i know what's going to happen.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 07:37:

Rubito, are you jumping ship on me? that's a strange position to take for someone who believes in a worldwide economic contraction.

That Bogotá real estate market is an asset bubble if I ever saw one.

Who are the three blind men?

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angelitabogota says on May 21, 2008, 08:58:

Lisa, thank you so much for your interest in helping us. I have just sent you a PM. It is good to know there are still kind people in this world! Thanks God!

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angelitabogota says on May 21, 2008, 08:58:

Lisa, thank you so much for your interest in helping us. I have just sent you a PM. It is good to know there are still kind people in this world! Thanks God!

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BillBigD says on May 21, 2008, 13:33:

Gringo- Look at some AAPL calls after today's sell off. Still 4 1/2 weeks in June or go July.

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BillBigD says on May 21, 2008, 13:35:

OIH- I also getting tasty again after selling at $220 this morning. Along with PBR sale good times.

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Lisa Zee says on May 21, 2008, 14:19:

Angelita I will pass the word, but it is not up to me after that.... Patience is all you guys have to have for now.

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angelitabogota says on May 21, 2008, 15:14:

Thank you very much Lisa! ;)

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 17:21:

bill.............i'll check it out....................i think i sold my oih jd's 220's too fast......that horse still had room to run.

i played that appl thing by taking a postition on qqq aug 49 puts. it's in the money by 19.77% after just two days on 10 contracts.

you da man, bill

Who are the three blind men?

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angelitabogota says on May 21, 2008, 17:24:

Gringoloid I sent you a PM this afternoon...about visiting Bill...

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 17:30:

ok, i'll check it now.

Who are the three blind men?

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larryrn says on May 21, 2008, 17:57:

You can try to be creative - offer $10,000 cash bonus at closing to selling agent for starters. This increased the traffic through my last house in Florida.

Renting is an option, I can rent mine in Coral Springs for the monthly P and I. I would be out for taxes and insurance.

You could offer to hold a 2nd mortage for your equity.

You could try running an ad in the El Tiempo for an incredible house in AZ - maybe consider a trade for a house in Bogota?

Just some ideas..

Larry

--- Larry Snyder - http://www.rn.org - Your Source for Online Nursing Education!

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angelitabogota says on May 21, 2008, 18:10:

Thank you Larry for your kind comments ;)

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rocinante says on May 21, 2008, 18:46:

Loid, I make it sound bad? "For me, this is the greatest economic times i've ever lived under because i know what's going to happen." has nothing to do with your doom and gloom outlook for the US. Bully for you and your investments - but I'm talking about your view of ther US as a whole. not 1 guy or 5%. This is about you and Rubi and your extremely bearish views for the US. I was responding to Brain reagrding MY misinterpreted views for the US. I think the US will recover nicely and in explainig this I mention you and rubi.

===========================================

http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/pbh-economic-forecast-symposium/

Gringoloid/Rubi: Full blown, worldwide depression 20% unemployment in the usa, $150 a barrell oil, euro at $2, credit bubble bursts into some kind of financial crisis.`

Roci : Recession in the USA, not affecting Colombia greatly; i.e., not much worse than we are now in Colombia, but maybe a little worse in the usa with a nasty bite of inflation, unemployment, and will work itself out in 2009.

"i think they're going to clean the whole slate in this recession and the following depression." Gringoloid, same post as above

http://india.poorbuthappy.com/yourthing/post/somethings-coming/

Here in this your post, you are predicting $80 oil and a nuclear attack on the US. You mention Rosie O'Donell was fired because of asking a question about WTC7 - 5 years later? Someone refers to your post as "Armageddon".

You and rubito constantly make reference to future devestating attacks against the US and the ensuing collapse of confidence in Government and economy as a result. You speak of devestating inflation and another Great Depression.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on May 21, 2008, 19:19:

Apple down 7 bucks today.Ok Bill I'll play on paper.

Buying the June 180 and 185 calls at $8.50 and $6.45 respectively 2 each (maybe look at the Julys on June 21 - I don't like paying for time when there's good volatility)

Total outlay on the Calls $14,900.

Also writing 6 June 180 PUT ($9.70) and buying 4 175 PUT ($7.35) for a credit spread of $14,100 as a hedge in case Apple stays flat (or gets super hammered).

Nets out to a -$800 position with not too bad a risk.

And now back to selling a 2BR in Arizona....

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 20:51:

Alright, lets look at what I said in the thread you quoted:

1. The impending and unprecedented Air Force Stand-Down ordered for this Friday, together with numerous civil defense "drills" scheduled during the coming week throughout America, not to mention war drills scheduled throughout the world.
2. The cancelled El Al (Israeli) flight schedule for Friday through Sunday.
3. The mysteriously meandering nuclear missiles that illegally flew cross-country suspended under wing on a bomber, not just as freight, which our government now claims was the result of an error (yeah, right, an error involving 5 nuclear missiles ... or was that 6 and now one is missing, as some claim?).
4. The Fed meeting scheduled for next Tuesday where discount rate cuts almost inevitably will be announced (if not sooner because of the ever-expanding mushroom cloud rising up over the collapse of America's housing and mortgage industries).
5. That just-released, already-proven-phony Bin Laden videotape (yes, Virginia, he died several years ago, just as then was reported upon extensively in the Arabic-language press but suppressed in the West, as so much is suppressed here).
6. That "accidental" emergency alert triggered in Illinois this morning.
7. Bush straining with everything he's got to get the American public on board with his "kill Iranians" plans.
8. Israel claims, suddenly, to have discovered nuclear installations in Syria.
9. Oil is about to breach $80 per barrel.
10. Dick Cheney's "gut feeling" that America's next terrorist attack "will be nuclear."
11. Michael Chertoff's "gut feeling" that America "will soon be hit hard."
.
.
.
.
Nine of the eleven statements are 'facts' on the day that this was written.

I'm just quoting what others said or was in the news at that time. I didn't say it, Cheney, Bush, Chertoff was saying it. Don't kill the messenger.

There are two of my opinions there, #4 and #11. The first one describes a cut in interest rates and the impending housing problem which what this current thread is about. Turns out, totally true.

The second one is a prediction of $80 a barrel oil, .........again, totally, totally true and factual.

There is nothing else there but 11 facts as we sit here today. that was LaMona that said 'armageddon', not me.

I don't see anything there that can't be turned into a postive............depression? a person can make money from that...............high oil? a person can make money from that...............low dollar compared to other foreign currencies? a person can make money from that...................credit bubbles and other asset bubbles that burst? a person can make money from that.

depression, high unemployment, inflation, etc., are not problems........they are corrections and solutions for the mistakes the Federal Reserve, the President, and Congress,etc., have been making for the last 10 years.

yes they are bearish, but thats postitive............................but most importantly, the truth, which almost everyone here can't handle.

Who are the three blind men?

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gringoloid says on May 21, 2008, 21:03:

Roci.............i have a question for you....would the OP have been better off taking and acting on my then bearish advice about the housing crisis, or you guys that say everything is just fine, or not much of a problem?

Who are the three blind men?

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BillBigD says on May 21,