Self entitled Colombianas

bueno_pues says on Jul 4, 2007, 21:58:

Es por eso es mejor pagar por la hora para las putas.

Rubito says on Jul 5, 2007, 01:38:

pagar por hora, no por LA hora :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

bueno_pues says on Jul 5, 2007, 06:06:

Yo tambien, GIB. Equivoco mucho y no puedo arreglarlo.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:13:

What is upper-class in the US? I would say it is all in the eye of the beholder. To a cotton-picker in central Mississippi, I would be considered rich. Compared to my typical customer, I am lower-class. One could say I am well educated. Truth is I was a c student and barely got my BS degree. It took 5 years and a summer session.

When I lived in Villavo, I felt much more comfortable with what I think is considered lower estrato. I originally went to Colombia to hang out with what I now know are estrato 6s. The girl is a dentist. Everybody was very nice, I was treated very well, but it just didn't feel right. The best times I had were later, spent partying and spending time with my now in-laws, in their homes. Estratos 2 and 1. It is a long story, but the girl I originally talked to and went to Colombia to hang out with, later ended up meeting my now wife. They both dislike each other. The other girl thinks my wife is rude and uncouth. My wife thinks the other girl is the same, and "stupid." Maybe it is because my wife came from estrato 2 and the other girl was estrato 6? Hell, I don't know. It is (the class thing) something I loath, and even if it is a fact of life in Colombia, I refuse to follow the rules.

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:24:

cat fights? hair pulling? mud wrestling? got pictures?

:-)

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:35:

Robert, I understand your position in refusing to follow the rules. Though, depending on how you live in Colombia it can definately harm you. I love doing business anywhere, so i'm interested in doing business in Colombia, of course. I've also got homes there in Cali and Medellin. The other day, I sent over a notary for a simple transaction, the other party sent her away and called me. They did not want a black notary. This is what i'm talking about if you're dealing with larger sums of money and business in Colombia.

woodybaum says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:36:

GIB is completely on the ball on that one

pedro says on Jul 5, 2007, 12:48:

Interesting topic GIB, about which estrato to mix in.

My current philosophy is that you should mix within the estrato that suits your background back home. Do not just pick the highest estrato that your gringo money will buy you in Colombia at a favourable exchange rate.

So, if I grew up middle class back home, I should be mixing with 3, 4 or 5 folks in Colombia. Never mind that I can afford to live in a 6, or if I actually do live in a 6.

The reason I believe this is, I think values are important. Where you came from in life, and where you want to go. My middle class values do not mesh so well with privileged Colombian values. For this reason, I find that my girlfriend and most of my best friends naturally come from 4 or 5.

If you are advising all gringos to mix in a 6, I think that's asking for complications. Especially when the new Colombianita wife goes to live in the USA or Europe and finds out the gringo's "real" socio-economic level back home.

¡save pow wow!

Man Tequila says on Jul 5, 2007, 15:11:

I'm sure GIB is right, in many ways. I would like to hear him talk more about this. Certainly my best times in Colombia have been with people who are from lower estratos. In Colombia, some of the "estrato 6" people I have met treated me very well, too. Outside of Colombia (in Canada, Spain, US), I have sometimes found people from privileged backgrounds to be less friendly than Colombians from a middle class background. If someone is wealthy through shady connections, it does not necessarily make them classy or give them strong values.

My experience is that almost all women are disappointed if they are treated well during courtship and then at a lower standard later on. If you buy your novia flowers every Friday, she would be upset if she didn't get them one day. If you treat her to five star hotels, she may not be the type to enjoy a hostel. I am not sure this behaviour is unique to Colombianitas -- like you say, Hooters girls expect the same. Wealthy women are also accustomed to their wealth and like the accoutrements.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 5, 2007, 15:27:

geez i hope you all find a good woman one day.. love doesn't have to be about estratos, if you want to find a good woman look at her values her family values, how she was brought up.. and nothing else.. when a girl come from a moral, value family background it doesn't matter what estrato she is in

The problem with some men here and that is why they are so unlucky in love is because they are always on guard, is she a gold digger, a visa hunter a prepago and so on. the poors want money the rich want more money so it's not different what you need is a good family value girl no matter what estrato is she. and there are lots of them from esrtrato1 to 6..

raulinho says on Jul 5, 2007, 15:46:

I think Kat1 is right it depends on the girls and their values not on their social class but I would avoid internet chicas.I feel the only way to meet them is on the ground and spend time with them and not long distance and don't give them any money as they disrespect you.

morphus says on Jul 5, 2007, 16:17:

I hang out with both rich and poor Colombians. The rich Colombians are easy. They invite me to their nice homes and introduce me to their women. I eat and drink for free. All I have to do is agree with them and laugh at their jokes.
Poor Colombians are fun too. They don't work real jobs and they can go out and party all night any day of the week.
One night, i introduced a rich Colombian friend to a couple of poor Colombian friends. He was appalled by them. He basically said I should'nt be hanging out with such low lifes. They were darker and more Indio looking. He has the more Euro look. I don't really see the big deal.
As far as chicas go, who cares which estrata? As long as they are hot.

I think GIB is just bullshitting you guys. He would love it if all the gringos that came to Colombia just stay in the rich areas and associate with rich Colombians.

Man Tequila says on Jul 5, 2007, 17:24:

I have no intention of just associating with rich Colombians. I do not have the practical Colombian experience of GIB or Morphus. I'm inclined to think Kat and Morphus are right, but would love to hear GIB say more on this topic, since I think he has his reasons.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 5, 2007, 17:50:

This is offering some great insight for sure. Definately, from what I can see the experiences of those there for vacation or living there in retirement seem to be very similar. I'd guess that those doing business there are more similar to my experiences. It reminds me of the people that come to Hawaii for vacation and those that are there living and involved in the economy in various ways. There are 2 different Hawaii's and i'd guess 2 different Colombias. It's interesting for sure and an eye-opener to culture.

miamimike says on Jul 5, 2007, 18:08:

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Woman's Educational Level, that has has much or more of a bearing then Estrato,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 5, 2007, 18:28:

Hi Mike, do you mean to north americans? Yes, i agree with that. But to other Colombians, from what i've seen, it really is not near as important as economic standing. I agree with Kat, that finding a good woman with good values, morals, etc. is the most important part. Though, if you plan on living in Colombia and/or not taking her out of Colombia, it matters where she comes from. Colombia is the "good 'ol boy system" like no place else and it matters.

static says on Jul 5, 2007, 18:53:

Definition of "estrato1 to 6" please, for a newbie. Thanks!

Robert Jorge says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:28:

Hey static. Before you get the "search the site" bit from others, I'll give you the condensed explanation. The word estrato has to do with income levels and corresponding utility costs. Basically, every household in Colombia is assigned or "assessed" an estrato level, ranging from 0 or 1 at the lowest end, to 6 at the high end. The estrato 6 household is considered the highest income, and thus is billed for water, electric, etc. at a much higher millage rate than an estrato 2 or 3. It is a way for the Colombian services to be more fair and affordable in their billing. It is similar to income tax rates in the US. The less you make, the lower your income tax rate. Estrato 0 or 1 has an extremely low millage rate. The estrato system is not intended to classify people, yet that is what it seems to achieve, despite it's intentions.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:44:

Just out of curiosity Frank, what did you do when the other party refused to deal with a black notary? I won't judge you, no matter what your answer is. I am just curious how you handled it. That is pretty shitty of the other party though. Depending on what type of transaction or deal you were involved with, if I were in your shoes, I may have just told the other party, "adios pendejo, yo no quiero negocio con el hijo de puta." That's the type of crap I can't stand. Here in the US or in Colombia. If it involves me losing a deal, fine. Things always seem to work out. I would rather be able to sleep with a clear conscious.

miamimike says on Jul 5, 2007, 20:20:

Frank--No I mean Colombians(but it applies to anyone) You simply have a different perspective on life whereever you may be,,,

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

miamimike says on Jul 5, 2007, 20:22:

I think its more imperative you hook up with someone your Educational level, intellectually. I see this as more important then income, Estrato ect.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 5, 2007, 21:50:

Hi Robert, we just sent another one over. That was about a year ago and I definately would not turn down a deal because someone else has hang ups. The money all spends the same. Yes Mike, I definately see your point and agree with that, otherwise it makes for some boring conversation and a pretty shallow relationship.

Rubito says on Jul 6, 2007, 00:12:

GIB is not bullshitting you guys. I would disagree with some minor details but agree with the gist of what he said.

It's like this, the bottom 3 estratos tend not to associate much with the upper 3 beyond formal businesslike relationships. It's like there is an invisible line between estratos 3 and 4. If a guy in a rich neighborhood has a girl from a poor neighborhood for example she's likely to be harrassed in his neighborhood and probably would have a hard time even being let in the guy's building. The rich guy could visit the poor girl no problem but he'd be constantly running the risk of getting jumped and curbed by the locals. So where do they meet? The hotel! And where does the relationship go? Nowhere, 99% of the time!

I personally feel much more at home in the Estrato 1 and 2 neighborhoods because of my own background being much more similar to that. We don't really have the option of living in one of those neighborhoods in Bogota though. They are too far away from the recording studios and the nightclubs that I would be frequenting, and my gf's son goes to a good school and la ruta wouldn't pick him up all the way out there.

As for Estrato 6, well, even if I wanted to live there I couldn't fucking afford it :P

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

kalder says on Jul 6, 2007, 07:32:

Hurry up with the next installment. It's an interesting read.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:01:

GIB, you are right on 100%.....IMO...especially here "If a upper estrata person associated with me knowing I had relationships with lower estrata they would be worried about what I might be saying to these people about them." .............. That is the reality. Just an example, after negotiating price with the previous owner for a penthouse in Colombia (granted it is exlcusive), the owners in the association did a 3 1/2 month background check on me before they would even let me buy. It's written into the association rules that the association must approve any new owner. They actually voted on it. Now, if I had walked in there with a girl on my arm that appeared not to be from the upper class, they "could" have turned me down from even buying (who knows if they actually would have). GIB, I also completely agree with you that the estrato 6 people are some of the nicest people there are in Colombia.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:27:

I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING!!!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:40:

I was estrata 3 in Colombia, never had problems with estrato 6 people actually one of my best friend in Colombia before i marriedwas estrato 6.! we are still friends, i visit her when i am in Colombia all the time. her brother married estrato 3 person and they seem fine.

al i can said is when i was living in Colombia i never heard this silly thing about estrato never felt left out when i was with estrato 6 people, i had a bunch them as friends when i was studying in the British council and some came to my wedding!

robi666 says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:42:

It's because you're good looking, Kat!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:45:

maybe i had a good teacher, my dad!!! hell he was the guy that one day he was dinning with an "estrato 6" person and another with estrato 2 he could not be bother about that and Hell if someone will said something about because they will had a piece on his mind,

he tough up to be confident, head always high, and to value people no matter where they came from...the rest is just B**sh*** is someone come to me and start talking to me all this nonsense about estratos and get up and leave the ignorant alone

Frank Rizzo says on Jul 6, 2007, 12:46:

Hi Kat, as everyone's experience is always different, and I know you are a true Colombiana.....so you would have some very good personal experience. Though i'll say that there is a real difference in a estrata 6 home for 300 million pesos that is just in a estrata 6 neighborhood and a 2000 million home in an exclusive area that is also considered estrato 6 in Colombia. I think there may be some mixing of notions that certain areas are all the same.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 6, 2007, 13:35:

thanks robbi666 but i don't think it has to be with being beautiful, it has to be with being confident and knowing when people is taking nonsense, is i am a good bussiness woman the last thing i will look in the personis what estrato they come from, i will look talent, determination, responsabilities and will look the human being.

GD I think you looking up too much in the estrato thing!!! believe me!!!

bueno_pues says on Jul 6, 2007, 16:56:

"al i can said is when i was living in Colombia i never heard this silly thing about estrato never felt left out when i was with estrato 6 people, i had a bunch them as friends when i was studying in the British council and some came to my wedding!"

Por supuesto, tienes razon. Para los gringos todo es sobre los estratos.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 6, 2007, 23:37:

When I rented our apartment in Villavo, the land-lady met us at the apartment for the paper-signing ritual. It took 30 or 40 minutes. Of course it was also a family event, and my wife's mother (who co-signed) and sister, boyfriend, aunt, and niece were also there. I sensed something was wierd. I didn't speak much Spanish at all, so I was clueless. After talking to the sister's boyfriend after the event, he said that the land-lady didn't trust them (the family). I apparently was no problem, but the land-lady asked questions or bought up things that implied she was worried about the family. Well, the land-lady was renting us an estrato 4 apartment, and lived in a 6 herself (north of barrio 7 de agosto Kat1, past Olympica, off of calle 15). My wife's family were estrato 2s. I believe the tension came from the "class issue". Anyway, just one of my little experiences.

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 6, 2007, 23:51:

All i have to say, Kat1, is consider the source.......a real internet hero.......en su mente....=)...

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 6, 2007, 23:52:

let me go get some popcorn......sounds like it is StoryTelling Time......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 7, 2007, 00:38:

Robert i don't think it was about class issues, maybe more about economic issues maybe this lady though that someone living in Estrato 2 can afford to pay an estrato 4 or 5 apartment, nothing to do with class.. what happen is that many Colombians want to live in estrato 5 or 6 to be "better" and they can't afford it sometimes, so they get behind with the rents and sometimes don't even pay.


Ok you will said "but the apartment was for me".. yes but they were the so called back up in case you didn't paid and if they were estrato 2 she might though is not hope there, cuz were they will get the money... i would have think the same....

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 7, 2007, 00:39:

"sorry couldn't afford to pay and estrato 4 or 5"

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 7, 2007, 00:45:

sometimes I think is that many have complejo de inferioridad :)

Cerealkiller says on Jul 7, 2007, 02:59:

This estrato conversation is killing me...Seriously guys where do you get this stuff from? Estrato doesnt mean same thing as class and Estrato 6 doesnt mean they all come to the country club to play polo on sundays. First of all, there are PLENTY of affluent people who live in estratos 4 and 5 cause they cannot be bothered to pay as much as estrato 6 in services such as water and electric...and the difference between 5 and 6 is really very little. I am sure, withot any doubt that none of you could tell between a estrato 5 person and a estrato 6 person...and that is because it is basically the same thing.
In addition, a estrato 6 in small cities like Pereira, Cucuta, Villavicencio etc etc is most definately not even comparable to estrato 6 in Bogota, Cali or Medellin...In terms of cost of services, cost of housing by Sq meter etc etc it might as well be two different worlds.
I agree with hooking up with people who share your same values and life standards, but only because it makes life so much easier. It would also be silly to deny that upper class colombians have more in common with middle-upper class gringos than less priviledged colombians...sad but true. But putting this in estrato terms is extremely misleading, Of course if youre sisben 1, 2 estrato 1, 2 chances are you are not even considered middle class but from 4 to 6 it just gets extremely blurry.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Rubito says on Jul 7, 2007, 05:47:

I can't believe the two of you would fail to see something thats as plain as the nose on somebody's face like that. Even in my short time I have been there I've seen this, and so have many people I know there including people who don't share those sentiments but still recognize that this is a fact of life.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

gringoloid says on Jul 7, 2007, 08:19:

I live in estrato 6 but prefer 3s and 4s. 1,2,5,6, damas, have a mistaken perception that I am a combination of Donald Trump/Santa Claus.

I came from estrato -100 in the states and it was quite difficult to move up to Central Park South in Manhattan and Orange County, CA. I still carry the scars from that 'trip'. I did it all on my own with no help from anyone.

3s and 4s seem to understand the respect I have for money.

you can take the man out of the estrato, but you can't take the estrato out of the man.

bueno_pues says on Jul 7, 2007, 09:12:

De acuerdo, Cerealkiller. Creo que es la primera vez.

paisa29 says on Jul 7, 2007, 09:33:

"you can take the man out of the estrato, but you can't take the estrato out of the man."

La mona aunque se vista de seda... mona se queda.

paisa29 says on Jul 7, 2007, 09:48:

When you are estrato 4 or middle class it is easier to mix with the lower and upper estrato people as well.
If I am travelling I don´t have any problems sleeping on the floor or in a five star hotel.

bueno_pues says on Jul 8, 2007, 08:35:

Entonces, explicame por que la gente de un barrio en Medellin pelearon contra el gobierno del ciudad cuando ellos iban a mejorar el estrato del barrio desde 4 a 5?

Cerealkiller says on Jul 8, 2007, 09:59:

GIB, I have always thought that colombia's main problem lies within the great disparity between the rich and the poor, and I am aware of the fact that a person on sisben is extremely unlikely to have any sort of acquaintances in estrato 6...Not one throughout their lives.
That said, I emphasize on the fact that the difference between estrato 5 and 6 in terms of education and access to resources is almost none. In many parts of bogota you will find that the difference between estrato 5 and 6 is imperceptible.
An example: Go to Santa Barbara in Bogota, I am sure you know the area very well...from Carrera 2 in Usaquen to 13 right on the back side of Unicentro and between calles 127 and 114, everything is estrato 6. If you cross calle 127 and go to Bella Suiza you will see no difference in architechture, the type of cars people drive or the brand of clothes they wear and that is estrato 5. Both sides of calle 127 do their shopping in Pomona, if you come and tell me that you can tell the estrato just by looking and talking to a person who lives in Rosales and one who lives in Bella Suiza I might just have to say youre full of it, because there is no such thing. Both people can afford to go to the same school and chances are both went to the same uni as there are only 3 very exclusive Unis in the city.
In addition, i dont know what kind of estrato 6 girls youve been talking to. I would certainly try and discourage a relationship between a foreign middle class person and a estrato 1 colombiana because sadly, more often than not, these "relationships" are based on her interest to move up the social ladder and his inability to socialize with people on his same socioeconomic level. I suppose it takes a lot more effort to bedazzle a girl from an upper estrato...and I am almost conviced that is the reason why Gringos end up with low life wives.
However, I would NEVER EVER advice against dating a person from estrato 4...Lets take an estrato 4 neighborhood...El Salitre, Id say most people living in El Salitre have a university degree, work office hours ad are socially competent at any level, I am sure you will bump into estrato 4 people partying in Andres Carne de Res and mingling with estrato 6 very easily. Any estrato 6 colombiana who advices against dating estrato 4 colombianas is nothing but a jealous bitch and her "advice" is well unfounded.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 8, 2007, 14:32:

GIB I had heard about estrato but never as to classify people, yet class issues of course exits in Colombia and many rich won't date girls from poor areas or what they considered poor areas..

this girl that are talking to you are either have a hole on their brain or as CK said they are just jealous bitch.

In my time time the division was the south (poor) and the north (rich) of Bogota,... but maybe this Estrato issue is new now something that i had never experiment nor my husband when he was living in Colombia and he was surrounded by estrato 6 people all the time yet he never ever heard someone telling him why he was dating an estrato 3 Girl, but AS i said probably is the "new trend"

so maybe you should start hanging around with more intelligent people.

and the funny thing i Have meet estrato 6 people that are making ends meet just to live there, and they rather eat s** than gone down an estrato.


GIB if you this July I will introduced you to one of my best friend, she is "estarto 6" she lives in Santa Barbara and she is very well off, you will never ever heard her talking this nonsense, maybe is because she already was born with silver soon in her mouth and is not a "levantada"

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 8, 2007, 14:44:

the funny thing CK is that I knew a girl that was working with my sister when she used to be an air hosstes, this girl was also an air hostess and she was an estrato 1 girl, she used to live in El socorro in Kennedy. what I will said is you really need to meet the girl , her background and her values and of course if you both are in LOVE what estrato have to do with it.


As I said i was estrato 3 but i never was desperate to leave home, i was living well. my parents had good jobs, I went to good schools, close family, if somebody had adviced my husband not to date me because of my estrato now tell me how wrong he (the person) could have been. and my husband would have missed the opportunity to marry such a wonderful woman with a great family!!! ;))))))

and BTW look at Robert Jorge GF she is estrato 2 so are we saying he made a big mistake marriying this Girl?
maybe I will said is you need an educated woman if she had a good education the estrato don't matter doesn't it...

If she hardly finished school, then you will have a big problem trying to fit her into that world

Rubito says on Jul 8, 2007, 21:25:

CK yeah but BIG jump in Bogota comes from 3 to 4. It's much more common to see someone who lives in 6 dating 4 than it is seeing 4 and 3 together.

My gf's dad's side of the family are all 3 and her mom's side are all 4 and it's a HUGE rift.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 8, 2007, 21:37:

Damn, and i read here on PBH that ALL Colombian women are 10's..........!! =)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

Cerealkiller says on Jul 9, 2007, 01:42:

Oh Kat1 I dont doubt that for a second. I dont usually judge people based on their income levels and I am convinced that nice people come in all classes and colors. I have a lot of stories in which people on sisben have taught estrato 6's a lesson or two when it comes to decency. Having said that, I am not even implying estrato 6s dont have a clue about decency, most of the times people realize they have been taught a lesson and become a lot more humble. Its a two way thing.
The reason why i would discourage a "relationship", as i said on my previous post, is solely based on what I have read here and I know it is a bigoted position but in my defence, If I had the chance to give a estrato 1 girl some advice i would say "stay away from gringo's giving you expensive presents and promising the world, they just wanna get in your knickers as if it was a tourist attraction, they think that poor means stupid and easy"...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Cerealkiller says on Jul 9, 2007, 01:53:

Rubito, I think in any relationship where there is some kind of disparity (in terms of income, education and even influences) these sort of problems will always come about. I know an older couple, she is estrato 6 , and has been since she was born. She is well travelled, educated, and has a very influential last name...Both last names actually. She married this guy, a estrato 6 banker, who was probably born in estrato 3 or 4 but made his way up, he has no "pedigree" but is a very talented and loving man...they have been married for around 30 years and there isnt a day in which she doesnt remind him that class is something you are born with, and que aunque la mona se vista de seda mona se queda...she is seriously convinced that if you dont come from aristocracy you are fucked and have to hope that someone in aristocracy (not even estrato 6 cause most estrato 6s are not fom a "noble background") is generous enough to welcome you into their family. And if you go to the Country Club or Gun Club in bogota you will hear this story over and over and over...hell you cant even join the club if you dont have an aristocratic background...

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 02:22:

There's a nice merengue by Juan Luis Guerra about the class diiferences and love.....
Cheers,
Desi





LETRA ' ME ENAMORO DE ELLA '



Enviar letra a un amigo Imprimir letra


Letra subida por clasica
Yo era de un barrio pobre del centro de la ciudad,
ella de clase alta pa decir verdad,
montada en un mercedez, automatico, dos puertas,
yo rodando en un trate con un pie adentro y otro afuera...

Ella en la Pedro Enriquez, yo estudiante de la UASD;
ella summa cum laudem, yo suma dificultad...

Pero el amor se viste de lino y de franela,
y cada dia que pasa yo me enamoro de ella...

Me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de su risa bella,
me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de sus risa bella,
me enamoro de ella...

Ella en un clud de tenis, yo aveces juego billar,
ella almuerza en el lina, yo en un comedor social;
tiene en su residencia un sauna, una piscina,
en mi pension dos cubetas para mojarme la vida;
ella en bienes raises heredan la capital,
yo tengo que hacer magia para trabajar...

Pero el amor se anida y no sabe de cuentas,
y cada dia que pasa, yo me enamoro de ella...

Me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de su risa bella,
me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de sus risa bella,
me enamoro de ella...

Esta historia se escribe sin principio ni final,
ella estando en sus buenas y yo siempre estando mal...

Pero el amor se viste de lino y de franela,
y cada dia que pasa yo me enamoro de ella...

Me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de su risa bella,
me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de sus risa bella,
me enamoro de ella...

Si ella sediera un poco mi vida fuera ideal,
bajate de esa nube y deja de soñar...

Pero el amor se viste de lino y de franela,
y cada dia que pasa yo me enamoro de ella...

Me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de su risa bella,
me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de sus risa bella,
me enamoro de ella...

Me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de su risa bella,
me enamoro de ella, me enamoro de ella,
de sus ojos claros, de sus risa bella,
me enamoro de ella...

Juan Luis Guerra

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 02:55:

going back to the OP I think apart from class education plays a bit part in it.

And i think if i were a very poor woman , yes i would have avoided a rich guy, i wouldn't him to rub on my nose all the time he rescued me from the gutter everytime we wouldn't have an argument.
and he forgetting the real meaning why i married him, i think for some rich people money become a paranoia, and they think everybody if after it. so maybe i would agree with him better if they married their own class.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 06:34:

I've been reading this thread with a certain disenchantment and I cannot relate to it at all.

I cannot relate to Frank Rizzo's premise being a wealthy guy and getting irritated at GF because she feels that she is entitled to some of his self-earned wealth. That much I can understand, fine. What I don't get is that perhaps this GF feels like she's important enough in his life to graduate into a live-in, wife-type position and loving couples do share, or do they not in those parts of the world?

Another thing that we had discussed a zillion times and I believe now that that there has been some new dwvelopment and in some parts people actually have started to talk about their fellow beings as "strata1-6" people, a term that I had hardly ever even heard, not even in jest, with my folks in Cali. More like what Kat says, stratas are for the neighbourhoods, never to classify people.

Yes, I agree with CK, and this is also something we have discussed in the past, I believe firmly that similar background is important and a good foundation for a lasting relationship.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

paisa29 says on Jul 9, 2007, 09:22:

"It is funny how the two Colombian women on the board can not see it. Maybe that is because they grew up with it and to them it is just normal? Maybe they are just living in a state of denial the way some people do to poverty issues, crime issues, etc in COlombia. I guess that would explain it?"



Look, I am not a rich, I consider myself as working class,I have to work very hard to get whatever I want, estratos for me is one of the ways the goverment has to charge taxes and public services to Colombians, I am classified as 4 estrato due the place where my house is located it means I have to pay more than if I was living in a lower estrato.

Of course there are some bad things I saw during the Pablo Escobar time that I don´t want to remember, but never have ignored the other problems we have as poverty and the related issues, it hurts me deeply.

paisa29 says on Jul 9, 2007, 11:02:

Don´t worry...I know it wasn´t about me, I only wanted to share my opinion about you wrote.
I do hear people , especially poor because I don´t like to live into a bubble.
for the record...my office is located in a "5 star" hotel in El Poblado but you hardly will see me having luch in El Parque Lleras, I go to the hotel basement to share my free time with the maintenance people, I feel much better with those people than (hijos de papi y mami).

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 11:22:

"It is funny how the two Colombian women on the board can not see it. Maybe that is because they grew up with it and to them it is just normal? Maybe they are just living in a state of denial the way some people do to poverty issues, crime issues, etc in COlombia. I guess that would explain it?"
hahah this is funny, telling me when i grew up in estrato 3 in Kennedy!

i think you are putting more into this than any colombian , first why on earth you ask about WhAT A LOWER ESTRATA GIRL LIKE, you are classifying people for god sake!
so you are looking for love or class... i don't get it it's like me going to a friend and ask what a bout of estrato 6 like, they all damm different! as ck said not everyone in estrato 6 is rich!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 11:44:

I don't live in a bubble either and I believe I have brought up plenty of class issues on this board. But you've got it backwards, gringo. "The estrata system is to blame for a lot of things in my opinion", you say. It's not the strata system but the class society. The strata system is nothing more than a measure for making people pay for their utilities according to their income level. That some people use the word as some kind of bigoted shorthand to classify people is not the Colombian norm . There are plenty of other expressions that people use, some of them even more bigoted and ugly.

In Cali I hear words like la chusma, la gente de los barrios (bajos) los del distrito (Aguablanca), de extracción humilde, de clase baja..

I'm just talking about the terminology. It's distasteful for an educated Colombian to use the word "estrato" when talking about people.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 12:07:

but is the same when you go to Brazil, Peru, Bolivia or even in some European countries the upper class people don't mix with the poor, what i am saying is that this Estrata issue have become maybe new now because the only time i heard people talking about estratos was refering on the utilities cost the same with my husband, he was living in estrato 6 when in Colombia and he said nobody mention anything about it, but they did mention dangerous areas. he never asked about a girl social status, but I think he is a very educated man and though that was being ignorant.


Yes I met people who didn't mix with poor girls or considered not belong to their class but that happen everywhere in the world!! now do you want to waste time living with those people?

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 13:08:

poor women, if someone is ashame of my background is not worth my time!

those haven't got b**s!

and by the way in Brazil the gap between the rich and poor I think is more noticeable than in Colombia!!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 13:15:

I could afford to live in estrato 6 in Colombia and I wouldn't mind but is people come to me talking all that sh*** and will show them door.... the last thing i want is to spend time with narrow minded people, i won't said rich because as i said before i had meet rich people but they seem to be really nice people.

and if one of my kids which i much doubt come with that kind thinking, i straight away move myself to a lower estrato.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 9, 2007, 13:22:

but YOU JUST SAID YOU ARE LIVING IN estrato6!!!...........

hell!!! are trying to drive me nut cuz you are succeeding boy

bueno_pues says on Jul 9, 2007, 18:37:

La systema de los estratos es para los impuestos y la cuenta de electricidad etc. No mas. No hay ninguna persona Colombiana lo que me habla sobre los estratos.

manINred says on Jul 9, 2007, 20:46:

En serio bueno_pues? No me parece. Pues no es nada del otro mundo pero si la gente a veces discrimina con eso.

bueno_pues says on Jul 9, 2007, 22:11:

Si. Normalmente la gente no habla sobre sus cuentas de electricidad, bueno pues, no hay unos discusiones sobre los estratos.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 9, 2007, 23:18:

This question is sort of on topic, but not really. Are houses outside of cities and towns in Colombia assigned an estrato? In other words, if I were to buy a hacienda out in the plains, would it have an estrato number?

Also, just an observation / little story. During my first ever trip to Colombia, I went to a family's house in Acacias. Torn up road, no windows, looked very 3rd world - forgive the term. But when I went inside, it was borderline lavish. Beautiful furniture, courtyard, expensive US made appliances, the whole 9 yards. It was owned by a wealthy landowner / farmer. I asked my buddy why they wouldn't fix up the front of their house. He said, "so they don't advertise they have money and also raise their utility expenses. These were people who could easily live in an estrato 6 house in Bogota, but lived by choice in a 2. (I am guessing it was a 2 based on comparisons to other people's houses) It reminded me a little of that scene in the movie, Romancing the Stone, when they knock on the narcotraficante's front door looking for a vehicle.

Cerealkiller says on Jul 10, 2007, 03:42:

well GIB, to give you some credit, I will have to say that generally speaking, people in Colombia dont measure each other in terms of estrato BUT when someone is rude, impolite or just being an outright ass it it not at all uncommon to hear someone else saying "ugh, pero se te salio el estrato" meaning that you probably had very little access to education and that your real estrato is actually much lower then the one you appear to belong to...but i suppose thats like calling a mean person "india/o" people dont take it as a racist remark.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Rubito says on Jul 10, 2007, 12:04:

Desi, you better be thankful you didn't say that to my girlfriend's face, because you'd get your block knocked off by her. She considers herself educated (and I do too) and she and everybody else in her circle as well as everybody else I know in BOG uses 'estrato' to refer to people as a sort of shorthand. Often they use hyperbolic numbers such as 'ese hijuemadre se cree estrato 8' or 'si no dejas de molestarme me vas a sacar lo del estrato -5' -- VERY common to hear something like this. Maybe they don't do it in Cali or they didn't do it back in the day when you were living there.

And most of my Colombian friends would tell you the EXACT SAME THING GIB is telling you. I really think you guys have your heads deep in the sand on this one.

Where I differ with GIB is I think the estrato system is wonderful. Classism in the rest of the world may be less defined but that doesn't make it any better. At least with the estratos people have an incentive to move into and stay in lower estrato areas because of the financial break they get and that goes a long way to help prevent what happened in places like Detroit from happening in a city like Bogota, where whole neighborhoods were abandoned and just left to the squatters and crack addicts.

GIB lives in Salitre, estrato 4. Bueno Pues lives in Utopia, Texas in case you didn't know.

I find people that don't like to talk about the system or acknowledge how important it is in Colombian culture are usually from estrato 1 or sin estrato themselves and are ashamed. Kat1 probably came from such a place.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2007, 12:41:

Never mind, people who would react with aggression and physical violence are not the kind I choose to be friends with, so I am pretty safe from your girlfriend, rubito. Perhaps she learned this estrato-talk from you.

Not only did I NOT hear people referred in estrato-terms when I lived in Colombia, I also didn't hear it last year when I spent three months in Cali. We drove around a lot in different neighbourhoods with my friend who sells houses; we talked lots about estratos but they were always neighbourhoods, houses, apartments, prices. Never people.

Perhaps in Bogotá they do, in certain circles. I wouldn't know.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2007, 12:59:

i told you rubito i came from a place classified as estrato 3 and i not ashamed, i have a good education and a good upbringing, i knowledge that there is a class system in Colombia but when i was living there it never was referred as estrato get it!!! maybe AS i said it's a new thing to tell you the truth l learnt that people was classified by estratos here in PBH, AS I said before in my time was the north where the rich lives and the south..were the poor lives, so if you mention you live in example Castilla, people on the north you were lower class...


I am not saying that people don't use that in Colombia but certainly not with the ones I hang around maybe because they are from my generation and in Villavo i don't hear it at all, but we know where are the rich places there.


when i was living there the only time i heard about estratos was when they refering about the utility bills not to classify people....

BTW I don't have nothing again estrato1 people as long as they are decent people they are welcome to my house....

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2007, 13:01:

BTW why would i be ashamed of it? that is ridiculous!

shame the people that classify people because of estrato. all i can say is that maybe people in estrato 5 or 6 have issues

Rubito says on Jul 10, 2007, 13:53:

It could be very much a Bogota/Medellin thing.

Kat1 the fact is that your immediate environment usually is a big influence on you, although it doesnt HAVE to be, it usually does wind up forming a significant part of a person's personality. So judging people by their neighborhoods as a rule of thumb maybe unfairly biased in certain circumstances, but one can certainly understand the reason why someone would do that.

As for me personally, I'm an artist so my music takes me just about everywhere. I'm pretty much on the margin of ANY society. If I had an estrato it would be the square root of -1 :P I don't like rich areas though and am suspicious of the people who live in them, at least initially, athlough I wouldn't write off a rich person as a friend just for being rich or having a rich address I would be more careful.

Kat1 I thought you were raised in San Mateo, are there any estrato 3 parts to that area? The map I have shows all 1. My tailor lives there BTW!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2007, 14:08:

nope i was raised in Kennedy, well i lived in 3 and 4 the longest i stayed was 3 in kennedy which it range from 1 to 3 as you know Kennedy is such a big area. but i have friends in San Mateo my brother lives in estrato 4 and he never talks about estratos well not with me anyway.

when i was living in Colombia i had friends from all estratos, i was studying in the British Council and the majority of the people that were there were from "estratos" 5 and 6 and used to talked to them and never heard nothing like that coming from their mouth. as i said many of them came to my wedding.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 10, 2007, 14:12:

I even had a boyfriend from estrato 6 and he was ok.... yes he was a bit scare of the south of Bogota and i don't blame him cuz i know some parts of kennedy are not paradise. and i knew people that never been on the south of Bogota and though it was full of pandillas (gansters)

manINred says on Jul 10, 2007, 17:46:

Yeah, estratos are used to discriminate in my experience, and that's according to the Colombians I was with there. But i'm only familiar with Medellin.

manINred says on Jul 10, 2007, 17:46:

well, in that respect

bueno_pues says on Jul 10, 2007, 17:50:

"Bueno Pues lives in Utopia, Texas in case you didn't know."

No es correcto. Pero yo conozco muchas personas que vivieron muchos anos en Medellin.

Shanidar says on Jul 11, 2007, 13:36:

bueno_pues :

sorry, but you are deluding yourself. The lower estratos have poorer houses, poorer people, frequently lower class people. If you think it is just for billing purposes, you head is in the sand.

Was married to an estrato 2, low class, selfish, and a visa hunter. Currently married to a 4. Doctor of Veterinary Medicine, calm collected, intelligent. You would think that that Estrato 4 was on a different planet than Estrato 2

No one is saying that this is a horrible terrible thing to occur, it is only being discussed, because it is less common in the US.

When I was working there, all my bills were Estrato 6, it really sucked...

aztec says on Jul 11, 2007, 14:17:

"kat1 says on Monday July 9th, 2007 11:22:

"It is funny how the two Colombian women on the board can not see it. Maybe that is because they grew up with it and to them it is just normal? Maybe they are just living in a state of denial the way some people do to poverty issues, crime issues, etc in COlombia. I guess that would explain it?"
hahah this is funny, telling me when i grew up in estrato 3 in Kennedy! "

Kat1, am I to understand you grew up in Kennedy in Bogotá? It is huge so what section?

aztec says on Jul 11, 2007, 14:50:

Our niece's husband was raised in Kennedy and his mother, sister and brother still live there. When their children (two boys and one girl) get out of school they stay with the grandparents in Kennedy until the parents can pick them up. So we have some recent experiences about life there.

In a nutshell, it is not a safe place to be especially if you don't live there. As an example, some gang members forced the boys (16 & 17 years old) to surrender their shoes. The father immediately went to Kennedy and talked with the local "gang/mafia leader" and the shoes were returned by night fall.

I must confess that I have seen absolutly beautiful girls/women from there.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:25:

depends what section in kennedy, kennedy consist from Casablanca, paraiso, nuevo kennedy, el socorro tintal, banderas, la primera de mayo, techo, el rincon de los angeles which could be considered estrato 4, Roma, britalia, etc kennedy is huge, i used to live near la primera de mayo, plaza de las americas is very near to us or was, my mum still own the place there but is rented.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:27:

thre are ganster because as i said kennedy have from estrato 1 to nearly 4, example el socorro is estrato 1 and el rincon de los angeles which is considered part of kennedy can be 4...

inclusive Bosa now is considered part of Kennedy

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:29:

history of kennedy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_(Bogotá)

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:30:

And proud of being a kennedian :)))))

aztec says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:36:

"I must confess that I have seen absolutely beautiful girls/women from there."

Kat1 is just one of the examples of the beautiful women born and living in Kennedy! Hard for many to believe but many of the Kennedy girls/women could be models on any magazine cover. The ones I have met are also nice people!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 11, 2007, 15:45:

oh thanks aztec :)

aztec few facts of kennedy did you know that before el Dorado airport, the airport used to be called techo and it was in kennedy? Mss Tolima one of the beauty pageant in Mss Colombia used to live in kennedy actually near me, and we also had some actors living there. :)))

aztec says on Jul 11, 2007, 18:03:

No I did not know that. Thanks.

Rubito says on Jul 12, 2007, 00:20:

Kennedy is where lots of the Costenios living in Bogota reside.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 12, 2007, 01:12:

In Casablanca specifically.

gringoloid says on Jul 12, 2007, 07:39:

alright, now you have me curious!

DonGringo: do you know any nightspots in Kennedy? Not too late though, I feel like shit the next day.

gringoloid says on Jul 12, 2007, 07:52:

I have a car available to me on Sundays; maybe we could just ride around Kennedy and see what's going on. The traffic won't be bad.

podborski says on Jul 12, 2007, 08:33:

and us caneddians are proud of you too kat!

Rubito says on Jul 12, 2007, 11:20:

Gringoloid, there is the Zona Roja del Sur in Kennedy, which is probably not a good idea for you guys at this point :P

But there is also the Las America's area which is cheap fun and safer than the ZR. The only drag is that there is far less live entertainment though. I recommend this place:

Canterbury Café Bar
Cl. 2A sur # 71D-23 (nueva sede)
Tel: 4035257

Live Cuentaria on Wednesdays if your Spanish is up for it!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 12, 2007, 11:26:

Canterbury Bar, Jack Ass Bar, Orange Bar... Damn! Where are the sign police? Simon, time to get busy and tell these bar owners to use a Spanish name for their businesses.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 12, 2007, 12:16:

Gringoloid to go to kennedy you really need to go with somebody that knows the area, and stay in la zona rosa del sur or cuadra picha jjeee that's what the residents call it, because it used to be a quiet area until the bars and discos invaded it, it is around Plaza de las americas shopping center.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 12, 2007, 12:18:

although i prefer to stay in the shopping center myself, there is a litlle bar there that just put 80,s music and rock in Spanish.:)))

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 12, 2007, 12:19:

and if you like rides, did you know that near the shopping center is one of the best parks of Bogota? Mundo Adventura, it's great!!

gringoloid says on Jul 12, 2007, 14:58:

Alright, I'm taking your word for it; DG, Pod, Marchus, do you want to go this weekend to Las Americas?

pedro says on Jul 12, 2007, 16:52:

Las Americas is fun. There are plenty of bars to choose from. My favourite is San Roque. It's up top of the big staircase in the alley that has end to end bars.

¡save pow wow!

podborski says on Jul 12, 2007, 20:38:

I'm up for anything GL : )

I went there once before with a gringo buddy. We were like two lost sheep. It's very crowded and VERY noisy. Lots of touts telling you their place is the best, full of people, and you go inside and you're the only person there.

You walk right back out and ask the tout why he lied to you and he just shrugs, laughs and looks for the next sucker.

My number one rule (anywhere in the world) : Never go into any place that needs touts to drag you in.

goin_south says on Jul 12, 2007, 23:12:

I-pod.... we give you, then... the Weekly PBH Barnum & Bailey Award: "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" ;)

why can't the freakin Chung King Chinese just LEAVE THE FREAKN DOLLY LLAMA and Tibet ... ALONE!

Rubito says on Jul 12, 2007, 23:23:

You can play my favorite game down there, guess which girls are juiciosa and which are not. If you do it right it should come out to about 50-50 ;)

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 13, 2007, 00:51:

easy, the juiciosas are not in the bars until 1pm stone drunk.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 13, 2007, 00:53:

but I don't think this guys are looking for "juiciosa girls" they just want to have fun.

Cerealkiller says on Jul 13, 2007, 02:42:

Kat1 youd be surprised as to how much fun a juiciosa can have....

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

gringoloid says on Jul 13, 2007, 06:18:

I think you would all be surprised to find that me and my gringo buddies are traditional, stable, character driven, mature men.

what makes us this way, you say?

there are 3 types of women in the world: women who drink beer and wine out of the glass, women who drink beer straight the bottle, and women who drink wine straight from the bottle.

There is a 4th type of woman who drinks hard liqour straight from the bottle; and although they're a lot of fun, they're not keepers.

Me and my buddies are clearly 'beverage by the glass women.' ::))

Cerealkiller says on Jul 13, 2007, 06:23:

Well if the glass is dirty id just have my beer from the bottle or can. Most places dont even bother to wash their glasses properly anyway....

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

houstongal says on Jul 13, 2007, 06:44:

Grigoloid, isn't there 5th type....one that doesn't drink? I think your classification could be due to age. I'm a glass woman now. When I drank beer in college, it was from a bottle. And there were those frat parties where we'd drink liquor straight from a bottle as well. Hmmm...with age comes refinement?

gringoloid says on Jul 13, 2007, 07:47:

Yes houstongal, you are so right! I did neglect to mention this one woman in the world and boy does she need a drink.

She needs an IV of grain alcohol.

BTW, you sound like a lot of fun, I like that liqour out of the bottle story you told.

podborski says on Jul 13, 2007, 08:49:

I don't want to guess rubito, I haven't much time left.

I think I'll just buy a big bottle of rum and wave fistfuls of money around and see what happens : O

(Probably I'll end up with a bunch of new male friends)

houstongal says on Jul 13, 2007, 08:55:

gringoloid - ahh...remember that was years ago! I think I got sick off of every type of liquor when I was in college. I had waaaayyy too much fun in those days. Now I pass out for a few minutes after one drink (if I haven't eaten). My doc thinks I'm not able to metabolize alcohol very well any more. So I have to be a lot more careful now.

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 13, 2007, 14:00:

pod I can tell you what will happen if you start fisfuly (sp) waving money around and in Kennedy... hehehehe and doesn't involve girls...

Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 14:00:

I found this whole post interesting so i am going to comment..I never really post in these sites but I find a lot on interesting info here so I thought I would start making some comments. I think GIB and a few others have the concept right but maybe expressed in the wrong way. I don't think the specific number of the estrato matters so much but clearly social status, position and financial motivations are very strong...especially for those that are at the entry level of the middle class. One of the first questions I get from my Colombian friends when I meet someone new is...Did they go to college, where did they go to college and where do they live. I find it annoying at times.

I clearly believe this is much more of a Bogota thing. It was explained to me in this way by some younger Colombian guys that I work with. It is VERY hard to get married and maintain a middle class lifestyle when you are just entering the middle class. I mean those that earn in the 1-2 million a month range. They look for a girl that is around their income level as it is almost impossible to do it on one income. How do they know ....they ask where did you go to school. If the girl went to a good university then its keeper material if just a average or one of the less then average colleges they know that life will be a lot harder. They will all say they love to play with the girls that have less but rarely will they marry them. I know a few will move them in a couple of months and then just say its over. When they are ready to get serious they will look for a little less beauty, more potential and similar social status. The competition is fierce for jobs..I can't tell you how many 30 year old Colombianas I know that are very smart, educated etc and want to change for a better job. They are currently working as professionals but most get told they are too old when applying..sad but true. If they lose there current job odds are the next will be less than what they have now.

For the older guys with lots of money there is no need to worry about where someone is from a trophy wife or girlfriend is a trophy no matter where they are from.

I know quite a few girls in Bogota that have tons of credit cards to maintain a lifestyle and image they just don't have. designer clothes, perfect hair, manicures, boob jobs, Lipo..etc just to find and keep a principe azul. Personally I can get along with anyn regardless of where they live, what they drive or how much they have. Its what in the heart and sould that really matters. You can find classism and materialism everywher on the globe.