School for "problem children" in Colombia

Leeroy says on Jul 31, 2007, 18:30:

In my (non-special) international school we too have kids with behavioural problems, brain-tumours and the like. Hell, in a school of nearly 2,000 kids, we don't even have a teacher that specialises in dyslexia (and I should know, I was charged with teaching them how to spell last year).

So I'm with the OP - if anyone knows of any special schools, I'd be glad to here from them too.

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vicshere says on Jul 31, 2007, 18:53:

if you can afford it put him in a total private military school they will straight his ass up real fast...military school run any where from 400,000 to 1,200,000 per month

listo

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 31, 2007, 19:43:

I was thinking what vicshere mentioned. Or even a good ol' fashioned Catholic school with real strict nuns.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 31, 2007, 21:24:

i disagree with the above....that will only make the military academy school number 4 on the list of schools he gets tossed out of....as it does not address what is going on inside of his head..especially with the adoption issues.....i would think the military school will not have the desired effect on him, and quite frankly might make him worse.....there are a few people here on PBH, as Strobers comes to mind, that have extensive experience in these issues. Maybe you can PM him, or if his PM is off, contact me and i will email him to see if he can help you off PBH....please confirm the kid is in Colombia currently, and not the US? and i would think "remote control methods" would be an exercise in futility....

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 31, 2007, 21:25:

btw..Strobers is a really sharp professional, and very articulate...i would feel comfortable consulting with him.....=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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ixent says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:42:

Thanks for the comments so far.

Yes, he is currently in Colombia, he's Colombian and he's always lived there. And my PM is always on.

I would want to avoid putting him in a really expensive or elitist school, for one thing, he's always been very modestly brought up (and is not a spoilt brat by any means), I think he'd feel out of place in a really expensive (military) school.

We already know that "remote control" methods are futile. There is only so much persuasion, disciplinig etc. that can be done over the telephone.

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ixent says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:43:

Thanks Miguel, I'll see if I can contact Strobers.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 31, 2007, 22:46:

if the PM thing doesnt work , let me know and i will email him to contact you......=)

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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gringolondinense says on Aug 2, 2007, 05:36:

Sorry ixent...Peter send PowWow there and he took the last desk at that school.

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gringoloid says on Aug 2, 2007, 06:22:

ixent.....this email was lost in the transfer from yesterday, but it is important so I'll write it again.

Have you had this young fella checked for 'attention hyperactive deficit disorder"? Or ADD?

I have seen many people helped with the medicines offered today. Not only helped but a complete 180 degree turnabout. Check it out, it's worth a try, good luck!

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gringolondinense says on Aug 2, 2007, 06:25:

I know a kid who has that thing ADD....hes on loads of Ritalin. It doesnt seem to have calmed him down. Last time I saw him, he took my bad and ran off with it. Took me ages to get it off the little bugger.

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gringoloid says on Aug 2, 2007, 08:52:

gringolondon: there are many other newer meds besides Ritalin that are at a new level of effectiveness. it sounds like the 'kid you know' may be overdosed. Sometimes half as much works better.

Ritalin is dumped all into the system immediately and then wears off fast. Newer meds, strattera, concerta, etc., along with a different version of ritalin are time released.

Hundreds of thousands of children are being helped in school with these meds .

I'm no doctor, and am not offering any kind of medical advice here. Consult with your doctor, don't take my word for nuthin...

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LilaM says on Aug 2, 2007, 10:21:

I would say, contact Tomatisse in Colombia, you can find them in the directory, I can tell that is a very good method to help different kids with any problem, Call them they help my nephew so much ...

"You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don´t try" B. Sills

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ixent says on Aug 3, 2007, 02:21:

gringoloid,

I'll definitely check the 'attention hyperactive deficit disorder' thing out, as it sounds very much like something he might have. He's certainly very restless and lacks the ability to concetrate.

LilaM,

What is Tomatisse? I searched for them in google and didn't really find anything. Under what section in the directory might I find this?You say it's a "method", but not sure what mean.

Ixent

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gringoloid says on Aug 3, 2007, 07:13:

ixent........and even if two or three doctors say, NO, which I don't think they will, you can also test him for Oppositional Defiant Personality disorder, or OPD. This has recently been removed from the DSM of disorders and these people are now considered normal, but they still don't take direction well.

I don't think you can change this type, but the medications will help this too. good luck to you.

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 14:53:

I'm an experienced educator, who has dealt with what you all are labeling as a "problem child. Though I do not know all of the particulars...it sounds to me like the classic case of a young man acting out defiantly because his parents have conditioned him to believe that it's an acceptable way to manipulate adults to get his way. They either cave in or lose control by becoming verbally/physically abusive out of frustration whenever he acts out (or otherwise defies authority). Either way, he wins the struggle for control. As I said, I am not privy to what his homelife is like, but I would dare to say that his parents make the same mistake that most parents do...they leave the awesome responsibility of ensuring that their child receives a quality education (obviously, so that they have the skills as adults to be self-sufficient, independent, productive and positive contributors to society) to a relative stranger, his teacher. We teachers call it "passing the buck". Parents must realize that they, and they alone, are the primary educators of their children...potty-training and manners are just the beginning of the lessons that children should be learning from their parents. Parents should encourage and value education by modeling it to their children (starting at a very early age) to ignite a desire and curiosity for learning in them. Parents are heros to their children...and when parents get involved with their children education (read to them, listen to them read aloud, work with them on homework assignments offering encouragement and praise all along the way). The bottom line...success breeds success...sounds to me like this kid is screaming out loud (through his bad behavior and rebelliousness) for help, attention, love, ...in short acknowledgement and a sense of belonging. When children act out, it's because there is something wrong or missing in their life, but they have yet to learn the proper coping or communication skills to resolve the problem...so they just have a temper-tantrum or fit of rage....as if to say, "Hello!!! Can I get some help over here...there's something seriously wrong, but nobody seems to care...what do I have to do to wake you up to my overwhelming problems). Have the parents get involved and be proactive (not reactive), emphasizing the importance and value of being educated. They need to model learning by being learners themselves (take a class, read a book, have child help them study). And no, asking a child if he/she has homework (or that they can't do anything else until it's done...or as a form a punishment) is NOT even close to being involved in your child's education. Also, homework should only be assigned to students when they struggle to fully understand (master) the lesson taught...otherwise, it's just (redundant) busy work...a sure sign of a weak teacher...parents should intervene at that point too!!!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 14:55:

now this is a post with a stile of punctution adn gramar that we have come to expect from certain sophisticates... i also find this bord addictivve and come here more often than i should. mods, this post is about problem children in colombia and whether or not a school exists for them there... i am expert in problem children, but also the evils of lactose intolrance and celiak disease... funny how the words change but the songs do not

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:31:

And stop advocating drugging the kids to make them mind and focus!!! All of these so-called chemical imbalance syndromes, such as ADD (attention deficeit disorder), ADHD (same thing only with hyperactivity attached...what kid isn't full of energy?), ODD (opposition defiance disorder), IED (Intermittent explosive disorder...i.e.fits of rage) are all get-rich quick schemes invented/conspired by drug pushers =doctors, pharmacists, and the big pharmaceutical companies that offer lavish trips and cash for promoting their drugs!!!

Man Tequila, it's ok that you don't know squat about child development, education or the learning process...(obviously, that is why you were relegated to poke fun of posters' typographical errors on this thread, instead of making a positive contribution...) it takes a "big man" to admit when he feels like a "fish out of water" when discussing important issues. Would you rather talk about how much tequila you had to drink last night??? Start another thread, then!!! POR DIOSSSSSSSSS!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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vicshere says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:33:

MT deleted

listo

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:39:

I am a medical doctor who has studied pediatrics and works with ill children on a daily basis. You call yourself an educator? You're all about personal attacks and empty words. We have already seen which issues you consider important. We've even seen temper tantrums. Besitos. ;)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:47:

So how many lavish trips have you taken, doc?

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:48:

I do not accept trips, pens, meals or any type of paraphenalia from drug companies. I prescribe generic medicines whenever possible. But thanks for your concern.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 15:53:

The fact is, I am concerned...no offense!!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 16:11:

Drug companies offered these things to doctors because they know some physicians will prescribe these new and expensive medicines. A lot of doctors consider the ethics of this dicey. I do. So does the Canadian Medical Association, which forbids drug companies to provide trips to doctors. Or anything else, except a meal or "educational information", i.e. thinly veiled advertisements. Your country may differ.

I would agree ADD and ADHD are grossly overdiagnosed, and many children are overmedicated. But a percentage of these children do better on medicine. Medicine should be used as a last resort, however, after setting appropriate house rules, making a schedule and set routines, rewarding good behaviour, and making any consequences for not following rules known, fair and consistent.

This article here may have some advice for Ixent, but is in no way related to Colombia. I do not know enough about Colombia or the individual circumstances in this case.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/990515ap/2816.html

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2007, 16:31:

Critter, Man Tequila, let me dip my spoon in this pot of stew too...
I'm also an experienced educator and have worked many years with groups that include these children and I firmly believe that critter knows what he's talking about. That doesn't mean that Man Tequila as a meedical professional is not familiar with child development and the use of medicines like ritalin inorder to gain control on ADHD and other possible variants with letter combination diagnoses. You just look at things from a different angle.

I've discussed the use of drugs with my sister who's an M.D: and I think medical professionals are just a tad too liberal in prescribing medication for something that we don't really understand completely. Just like the doctors (in Finland) prescribe sleeping pills to almost all old people just in case even when they don't need them.

Ritalin (and similar drugs) seem to help children with extreme cases of ADHD to be able to concentrate on their school work and get their assignments finished on time. We need to discuss, however, what is "normal" behaviour for a child in our society.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 16:43:

Obviously sir, there is value in what you do for a living; otherwise, you would not command the high salary that most people in the world only dream about. So, please allow me to make it clear that I am not making personal attacks, only politically-incorrect personal observations. I commend you for acknowledging this growing problem in your area of expertise (both with overmedicating children, and being "incentivized" to promote 'meds"). Both are serious problems here in the US. Cash does not exchange hands like it used too, but expensive trips and gifts (I have several "friends" who are pharmaceutical reps. who love to boast) are still being offered up for the best "medicinal promoters" in the land...and it's perfectly legal!!! On the other side, to be perfectly frank with you, I would take a hyper -fidgitty kid (and use him/her as a helper) in my class any day over a near-comatose one all medicated and quiet. I am only grateful that my "empty words" are not falling on deaf ears...as such, I thank you for your positive contribution to this post, and for holding such high ethical standards in the medical profession. If I have offended you in any way, I'm sorry!!!

Now tell me what the hell happened in Puerto Rico???? 88 indictments??? What were they thinking???

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 16:53:

Thank you for your comments, Desi. But I still am convinced that more behavior modification strategies implemented and exhausted before meds enter the picture. It should be the last resort, and not the first choice. Also, please do not misinterpret my passion and conviction for agression and hatred...big difference!!! I only want to make positive changes, and never will fear being chided, belittled or persecuted in the process.

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 17:27:

To me, "normal" behavior is described with common sense (that is, the sense that the majority have in common). It is normal to for tweeners (kids between the ages of toddlers and teenagers) to be full of energy, somewhat defiant, unmotivated, forgetful, irresponsible, and selfish. That is why we all need to be right there training and conditioning them to conform to society's expectations as a "model citizen". They need (and eventually like) constant structure and direction throughout the formative years (by all discerning and responsible adults, who come in contact with children in any manner), until their brains mature and thought patterns eventually become more streamlined.

Our challenge as educators is to recognize who are customers are...not the parents, principals, or school boards. We are there for the students..period! As such, we must also understand that we are dealing with a different brand of student compared to even 20 years ago, in order to reach them by peaking their interests and satisfying their insatiable appetites for new information regarding technology. They are a more sophisticated(technologically advanced), saavy (street smart), and sassy (challenging and questioning authority) than most of us (parents) were at their age. As a result, they have high expectations of us, as much as we have of them. We must recognized the fact that it is becoming exceedingly difficult by the day to capture and keep their attention (thanks to the entertainment and technology available today). In fact, they hold those of us who are clueless (about video gaming, basic computing, ipods, webcasts, instant messaging, blogging etc..) in contempt...and refuse to follow the lead of incompentent adults (incompetent, that is, in their area of interests).

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 17:39:

Doctors are often poorly placed to make this type of diagnosis. I said essentially the same points as Critter and Desi -- that there is too much reliance on medicine, that behavioural strategies work better, that many "abnormal" conditions are overdiagnosed simply since there is a wide spectrum to normal behaviour (most kids are fidgety). It has been a long time since I prescribed Ritalin, although it does sometimes help as a last resort. The main job of the doctor in these cases is often to exclude a medical cause for learning problems. Ironically, it is often the parents and teacher who want me to prescribe Ritalin. The drug reps don't visit me too much anymore. ;)

You do see the same problem in the elderly. I'll bet many of the elderly in any given nursing home or hospital are on some medicine to "help them sleep" which is not needed.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Aug 4, 2007, 17:52:

I have been discussing the medication of my elderly mother with my sister (she is not her doctor) and I believe my mum is taking sleeping pills even if she really does not ned them. My sister sees no harm in it, but I believe that her memory gets only worse because of the unnecessary use of sleeping pills. (Mum has Alzheimers and is on medication).

My cousin who works with elderly people at a nursing home in England says that the elderly are given a a small glass of brandy every night when they go to sleep. I believe that the elderly one way or another, are drugged to sleep so that the nursing homes and other facilities would not need to be have more staff at night with all the bonus salaries for working at those hours. Simply put it's cheaper to drug the elderly than pay a night time salary for a nurse to take care of elderly that are awake and raising hell.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Man Tequila says on Aug 4, 2007, 17:57:

Benzodiazapines (lorazepam and most other drugs ending in -pam) certainly do cause memory impairment, but it can be hard to tell in the setting of dementia.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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gringoloid says on Aug 4, 2007, 18:07:

I think we should leave educating to the educators and medical work to the doctors.

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critter says on Aug 4, 2007, 18:34:

Thank you, gringoloid, for bringing some well-deserved respect and dignity to the teaching profession. However, we all have a moral obligation to cooperate and collaborate with one another and make this world a better place (even if it means we have to ruffle a few feathers in the process).

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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ixent says on Aug 5, 2007, 16:23:

Wow. I've been on holiday away from the internet, and I've come back to loads more helpful replies, and a slight commotion. Thanks all for taking the time to help. And apologies for my lack of responsiveness.

Critter, you have described the situation scaringly well (well, given the few details I actually gave). There is unfortunately a parental authority vacuum indeed. The lad was adopted under circumstances I won't go into, but it's not as if the parents were looking for a child to adopt, he more-or-less fell into their hands.

My relationship to him? His brother in law (albeit much older), and this kid was really brought up by my wife (his sister who is the only person who has any real authority over him) until she left Colombia to live with me 5 years ago. So he lost a very important pillar of support there, because of me, and I can't help feeling guilty about that. Unfortunately all I can do without turning my life upside-down (i.e., moving to Colombia) is primarily with my bank account and over the phone.

Unfortunately, I don't think the parents mode of operation can be changed. But maybe that's really where my wife and I should be focussing our efforts.

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critter says on Aug 5, 2007, 19:26:

It all makes perfect sense now. This young make simply tired of being abandoned (one by his bio parents and by your wife) and passed around like yesterday's newpaper. IThe fact that your suegros took him in out of sense of obligation is obvious to everyone, especially to him. If you really care about him that much and really want to do something for him, stop sending money to try buy away lonliness and sorrow the kid feels and just start adoption proceedings yourself. We all want to feel like we are an integral part of something special (i.e. a close-knit family). And if we don't feel comfortable, welcome, needed, or appreciated in our surroundings, we, inevitably, will withdraw from it...his acting out and defiance his simply his cry for help...from someone..anyone who will put their neck out on the line to demonstrate how much they really love and care for this kid. It's your call...

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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critter says on Aug 5, 2007, 19:30:

I apologize for the typos...I meant to say "this young man simply may be tired of being abandoned..." I don't really bother with proofreading on blogs or emails, despite my typing skills being a bit suspect...plus I presumptuously think subconsciously that I can type as fast I as think ...disculpa ...mi madre... nada !!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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