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Salitre Plaza

Hello Everyone:

I am going to Bogota August 15th to be with my novia. I cannot get her to leave her mother (and family) and her job to come to Canada. Not at this point anyway. She has 20 years into her government job and is keen on getting her pension. I on the other hand, am retired and am moving to Colobia to be with her. I do plan on teaching a little English privately but nothing serious. The more I look around me, the more I do not want to be part of the "Rat Race".

I am currently living in Victoria (visiting) and houses here sell for "on average", $400,000. These are starter homes! My novia purchased an apartment for $18,000 USD. Her brother is renting his apartment to me for a ridiculous amount. The apartment is located in a Plaze close the downtown area. The Plaza is called Salitre Plaza. Would love to hear any comments about this location under "Retiring in Colombia" or in this forum.

One last comment, in my opinion, most Canadians (especially in Victoria, BC) do NOT own their own homes. "The banks own the homes here!" Most home owners here are "house poor." Most Canadians pay ridiculous taxes! Hydro, water and gas are skyrocketing. In Canada you pay for water you "use" and water that is "returned". You pay for it coming and going out of your home! We pay GST and PST and if we had two assholes the government would surely try and tax one of them lol.

Yes, we have great medicare, great infrastructure, acceptable policing and a good standard of living. But for most Canadians, their pockets are NOT lined with money like many in these rooms would have you believe. There pockets are empty! Don't get me wrong, I love Canada, but I am really tired of the HIGH cost it takes to live here. Oh yes, did I mention, the banks are making record profits every quarter. Have you heard of a bank lately going bankrupt?

In one way or the other we are all working to subsidise our politicians in terms of their own venues and the banks. What is left over after 50 years on the job is not a gold watch, but house that has been paid for 20 times to the bank or you end up house poor; because you re-morgaged all time to stay afloat.

Some are born with the proverbial silver spoon in their mouth, but for most of us Canadians the only way to achieve any kind of financial freedom is to work long after the age of retiremnent.

Hmmm, give me the simple life in Latin American.....at least I will have money in my pockets. Thanks for listening to me go on.

Frank

By Lostgringo on Jul 24, 2005, 17:53 in Friendly Talkzone.

Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 24, 2005, 18:13:

A bit of advice When you come to Colombia, remember that for Colombians it's every bit as much (in fact a lot more) of a "rat race" as it is for you or I in Canada or the USA. The ONLY reason it's different for you is the disparity between the affluence of the two countries. You could easily end up sounding like a jerk without meaning to if you forget this basic fact. People here work VERY hard for what they have.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 24, 2005, 18:55:

Comments. My points:
a) good for you for moving and I am pleased that Colombia seems to be a good fit for your needs (it gets underrated alot).
b)Yes costs are high in Canada, but there are reasons for it and
c) Living in Victoria is like living in the Honolulu of Canada.
d) Agree 100% w Hollywood.

If you want to live cheap in Canada Victoria IS not the place to do it, should come as no surprise given the limited land available and mild climate.
Talk to the young locals who get pushed out of the market becuase it is saturated with retirees from out of province, who are already have had mortgages. As for housing market activity, Victoria has seen alot, but generally in North America and even Oz it has been going strongly. As for the seniors, do you mean house-rich, income-poor - Seniors who have owned their home for eons and suddenly seen 2x of assessments and taxes, which the fixed income cannot afford.

Agree it is a big problem. But the point is, I don't think that anyone considers Victoria to be affordable, and it is trade-off for living there. An average income is enough for most place, just not Victoria. PS Condos are now considered starters in Victoria and MLS has a few for ~180 K.

As for other costs, well costs are high in Canada. People have to get paid wages that will allow them to live (tho maybe not in Victoria). Life is costly: Fresh food is largely imported (from far away) or grown indoors, winters mean higher infrastructre costs for weather-tight structures and repairs (fixing potholes every spring), higher energy costs for heating etc, people live in spread out burbs and needs lots of roads to get around. That 'quality of life' must be paid for someway or another.

So yes, of course costs might be cheaper in a warmer, less socialised, more densely populated country, but packing up and going in search of it isn't always an option for everyone. Although if there ever was a group, retirees really are it. For those able to make that move, great and I congratulate them. Unfortunately if one has to work it can mean a drop a significant drop in earnings (life is cheaper, but wages become smaller), can be kinda hard to go visit aunt Mary and cousin Joe 10,000 km away with a much smaller wage.

As for taxing well, Canadian taxes are less that what several european countries pay, and I can guarantee that the water in Canada is cheaper than just about any European country, and safer than whatever comes out of many taps in Colombia. Thing that boggles me is people paying more for bottled water than they do soft drinks.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 24, 2005, 19:08:

Rat Race I am arguing that in North America it is common for people to work to attain the almighty dollar...for what? To be better than the Jones's? No, I think that for most Colombians it is a matter of survival and a NOT a love affair with the almighty dollar. That is what I was trying to explain. We have many things to be gratefull for here in Canada. However, I say again, for most of us we are not as wealthy as some would have you believe. Again, I am trying to explain that we work for something "imaginary" when in reality the banks are the ones with all the profits. Not always, but in many many cases we are slaves to this doctrine of success that spews out of the news media and of course HOLLYWOOD! Anyway, I never alluded to the fact that Colombians do not work hard. And would never, I repeat never put them down for struggling so hard to survive in their environment.

In the end, you have to ask youself "are we better off than persons in Latin America?" Do we know our neighbors? Are our families close and can you depend on your relatives. Sure you can poke holes in this viewpoint, but you cannot deny that North Amercians for the most part, are out for the almighty dollar, themselves and the power of big $$$. They and care less about how their family and so on are doing. Just look at all of the homes for the aged that popping up all over the place. Like a MacDonald's hamburger parents are easily discarded in North America. Most of our children have little respect for us as do their children have respect for them.

In addition, it also seems like the more urban you get the less you are likely to know or for that matter "care" about your neighbor. From what I have read in these forums (correct if I am wrong), most families in Colombia are close and depend on each other. In North America you can always turn to your closest Welfare Office. Not so in Colombia. Apparently my definition of a Rat Race is different than yours. I was asking about the Salitre Plaza. Are you aware of this place and do you live and work in Bogota? Do I sound like a JERK. You be the judge.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.http://www.monsterrakebacks.comCome gamble and get money back!

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caslug says on Jul 24, 2005, 20:12:

Franko..don't know what type of people you hang w/... BUT all my friends and relatives here in the states are working there ass off to for their kids. They work to afford a house in a nicer neighborhood so there kids can go to a better school system, or they work so they can provide for their college education, or they work to send money home to their overseas family. Not one of them bought a BMW to show up their neighbor and not one of them put a family member in a retirement home.

BTW, in COL(and ALL 3rd world country) HAVE to depend on family BECAUSE there IS no social welfare net. You should hold your comments on tighter family unit, till you start living in COL a bit. Wait till the first time a inlaw ask to borrow money or things that they never return. Or how the REASON the whole family is helping one sister and her kids is because the husband/boyfriend up and left. Or the simple fact that jobs are hard to come by, poverty is 60%, no safety net. Life is HARD in COL, for the fortunate few who have decent jobs or money, life is good. But for the majority it's a hard knock life(bigger rat race than you can imagine). Sound like Mr. H was just point this reality versus your unbound optimism and love for COL(nothing wrong with that BTW). Just don't start spouting how you LOVE col because life is EASY and people don't worry about money as much as N.America at the next family/friend dinner party. Most of those people work their ass off for what little they have, and you'll come off like a JERK to them.

BTW, if you read this board more, you'll know that Mr. H LIVES in BOG for awhile, HAS a business that EMPLOYS COL. So maybe his point is on target a little.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 24, 2005, 20:22:

Hmm.. Franko44 I'm not saying you sound like a jerk at all (I apologise if I come across as confrontational)... It just that I think you are in search of something, but I am not sure that it exists as you think it may in Colombia.

Unfortunately keeping up with the Jones is a facet of Colombian culture, and not neccessarily one that was exported from North America or Hollywood (although the media & marketing has been quick to capitalise on it).

If you gave anyone a choice between working to afford to a) put bread on the table and b) watch a movie after supper, I'm sure most would pick the latter. Few people want to live tooth and nail, day to day to survive and barely pay the rent.

As for the intangible wealths (which is what I think you are alluding to), wealth is in the eye of the beholder, and it all depends on perspective. The truth is some happy undefined medium. Just like anyone else, Colombians cross the spectrum on this, but don't kid yourself into thinking that all people there are always satisfied their current trade offs. Make the income incentive a little higher and people will jump. There are people who work crazy hours in Colombia too, and if all of Colombia had the same economic ops as north america had following the war, they might just choose the same path that many north americans chose.

Regarding family-closeness I agree 100 w/ Caslug, and I also think that mobility ties into it. The more mobile and dispersed families become, the less they are able to join together and be close. As for neighbourhoods not being close - I blame it on cars.

I think that North America is reaching the point where it realises that there is more to life than just work work work, and the countermovement is beginning (Canada just got 12 mos for parental leave a few years back). I fear that South America, like Asia are just starting the climb to the same thing, not that they are on the other side of it and "savouring" life.

Thinking of intangible wealths, in Canada one could homestead on some remote gulf island, and achieve enormous intangible wealth.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 24, 2005, 20:39:

Franko, I think you took my post wrong. All I was saying is it would be very easy to unintentionally insult people here (yes, I live in Colombia) by going on and on about how laid back and easy the lifestyle here is for you. See, it's not that way for them. That's all. And it's easy to forget when you dollar goes a long way. Imagine, for example, how you feel when someone from San Francisco comes to Canada and goes on and on about how dirt cheap those houses in Victoria are, which they are to him after he just sold his house for $2 million.

As far as the superior "family values" in Colombia, I just don't think it's true. Can't tell you how many dozens of broken families I know here, parents in two different cities trying to make ends meet, grandparents raising little kids on the coast while their mother works as a maid in Bogota and visits every couple years, deadbeat dads, etc.

Colombia is a terrific country and living here will be a great experience, just try not to come with too many pre-conceptions and realize that you really don't have to compare it favorably or unfavorably to Canada. Both places exist quite independently of each other.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 24, 2005, 20:43:

Salitre Since you asked about Salitre, it's a clean, middle to upper-middle class neighborhood (estrato 4) centered around a large and quite nice mall. The whole neighborhood looks like it's all been built in the last 10 years and a lot is being built now. Nothing particularly distinctive about it but you'll be safe there and it's not far from Parque Simon Bolivar and some other nice places. Near the airport, easy to reach from downtown. You'll do great there.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 00:47:

Whatever you guys think....I have been taken out of context..no sense in responding to this anymore...I am just some 62 year old idiot that walked in out of the rain. I know little about people and their cultures, or their struggles. I live in an Ivory Tower and have never known hardship.

Caslug you have missed my intensions completely! Mr. Hollywood are you saying that family values in North America are stronger than those those in South America? You equate seperation and divorce with family values. The dymanics of the family for most have changed in recent years in both South and North America. Please look a little more closer. Do children stay with their family longer in South America than North America? Do grandparents have respect in North American families and are they actually considered part of the primary family. In other words, do young families actually need to have their grandparents involved in nurturing their children. Are grandparents looked upon as an intricate part of the immediate family.

Of course this happens but does it happen as often as I would venture to say happens more often in Latin America and Colombia in particular? I am going on what I hear from people, the research I have done, people I have personally contacted who now live and did live in Colombia and my girlfriend. Perhaps my research is flawed. Perhaps i have been lied to.
Someone commented that the car was to blame for people not being close anymore. At first blush I dismissed this comment. But, yes, being independent either through a welfare system, having access to rapid transit and many other "modern day traps" (cell phones, television, internet, blackberries and so on). How about this, would you say Colombian women are like Canadian or American woman or can we compare. Do you think there is a fundamental difference in their attitude for example?

I am only trying to make a few observations not pretending I know all about Colombia. Having said that I do have a good idea of Canada and it culture, it's politics and social structure. I am not supposed to compare Canada with Colombia? Of course, Colombia is different than Canada so why not compare it? Yes the county is unique and that is good. But my love in life is learning and learning a new culture and language is easier for me if I can compare ideals and so on with something else. Maybe I should compare it with Peru or some Latin American country. If I had a pre-conception of Colombia that drugs were everywhere and my life would be in constant danger I could see the concern. For those who take things out of context, I "do not: have this pre-conceived idea.
Again, I am just some idiot that stepped out of the rain.

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Albatross says on Jul 25, 2005, 04:41:

Eureka This thread is hilarious, a 62 year old Eureka moment.

The fact is Franko, that you probably embody more of the "rat race" that you are trying to escape from than you care to admit... if not, you would have quit ages ago.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 25, 2005, 05:22:

I do like Salitre Plaza, I think is one of my favourite areas in Bogota, Salitre Plaza is a very nice shopping Center, the values of the property goes quite high there. It can be estrato 4 or 5 depend in which Conjunto you live. Checked Salitre Club Residential, very nice area of Salitre the area have their very own heated swimming pools, tennis court, an area for walking, biking,skating, is really great. The link is http://www.amarilo.com.co/Templates/ProyectosRealizadosDet.aspx?Page_ID=411
chao

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 25, 2005, 07:28:

No need to go on then I didn't mean to make you defensive, Franko, and I certainly didn't call you any of the things you're calling yourself in the post above.

I just worry when I hear people who have never been to Colombia idealizing it and projecting an unrealistic idea of what life is really like for people here. There's a whole sub-species of expats who for some reason need to denigrate their home country and create a fantasy about the new country. Maybe it's a way of convincing yourself to make the leap.

I say make the leap, have a great time. You're in for a great adventure. Colombia is a terrific country but it's also filled with many of the same problems you're complaining about in Canada (materialism, keeping up with the Jonesism, cell phones, TV in every room...). Plus it has its own unique set of difficulties; violence and crime on a level unheard of in Canada, terrorism, in-your-face poverty and tragedy every day.

Good luck and I truly wish you the best.

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caslug says on Jul 25, 2005, 09:20:

Franko.. As they will tell you in COL, tranquila..

You'll have a wonderful time in COL, only after the honeymoon period is over that you'll start seeing the difficulties and problems that COL & EXPAT face.

"How about this, would you say Colombian women are like Canadian or American woman or can we compare. Do you think there is a fundamental difference in their attitude for example?"

YES, COL women on AVERAGE are habitually late 1-2 hrs!

"drugs were everywhere and my life would be in constant danger I could see the concern."

dont worry about drugs, they available but unless you ask for it, you wont see it.. BUT the other danger(street crime and other) is more of an issue. After your honeymoon period is over, you'll notice you'll do things differently for safety. ie, having a cab drop you off at the corner of your apartment versus at the door..little things that you would never consider doing in N.A.

Once you get to COL i recommend you met EXPAT ASAP, have a beer w/ them, get their opinions..All the EXPAT i've met LOVE COL, they all gone native, BUT they all warn me of the dos and donts that they have to learn as part of living in COL.

If you never been to COL before, after arriving and seeing the level of poverty.. You'll understand A LITTLE of why things are..

PS. I've been to COL & PERU and i would say Lima is safer than BOG ON AVERAGE, more diverse culinary choices and has more touristy things to do..

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Albatross says on Jul 25, 2005, 09:33:

Pronto o nada... If a woman is habitually 1-2 hours late, then I'll habitually dump her ass...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Crazy4Cali says on Jul 25, 2005, 10:24:

It all depends on what's important As I recall, franko_44, you're going to BOG to be with your sweetie. Being with someone you love, carries a lot of weight in the decision-making process (i.e. don't underestimate it). Colombia is great and terrible, all at the same time (like many places only what falls into each category varies from place to place).

Bottom line, if you want to go to Colombia to be with your sweetie, then by all means, GO! There's no need to rationalize it or justify it by saying COL is better than CDN or vice versa. What's important is your sweetie is in COL and you're not.

That's all you need to say.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 12:12:

getting out of the Rat Race Albatross I cannot argue the point...I used to work over 10 hours a day and do Ebay and auctions on the weekends. I was "driven". Glad you are having a laugh..I am also laughing..it is a good thing lol.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 12:14:

Salitre Plaza thanks Kat1 for the post. I will be on the 6th floor in the Plaza. I am not sure if it is the same place your linked me too. If it is, I am Very happy with the situation.
thanks,
Frank

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:12:

caslug do's and don'ts Thanks very much for the advice. I am very fortunate to have met a gringo from the US here in the forum. He will be living 'very close" to me. We will be having lunch together shortly after I arrive in BOG. I also plan on getting together with another person I have met here also. I think I am a very "street smart person" having been an Outlaw Biker and having served as a Parole Officer in Toronto, Canada for many years. I try NOT to give "papaya". If someone wants a piece of me they are going to experience some pain in the transaction. I am no easy pushover. Oh, I know when to back off of course. Yes, I agree the honeymoon will be over soon enough and I will have to settle in to my surroundings.

I am no stranger to poverty and crime. I have seen it in many places. And guess what? It happens in the USA. I have seen people living in shacks with dirt floors and fire ants all over the place. Drinking out of mason jars and cooking food over a grate placed over a hole in the ground. Do you think Bogota has a licence on poverty?

Anyway, excuse me for commenting so strongly as I really appreciate your comments on this matter.

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caslug says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:28:

Franko..looks like you got good plan of action.. I've seen some bad slums in the US.. BUT it is NOTHING compare to COL(or any 3rd world country). The severity of poverty was very shocking for me because prior to visiting COL, i've never visit a third world country before. Seeing shirtless streetkids in Cali performing for change at the stop light or one horse(power) car/cart going along IN THE MIDDLE of expressway or people bathing in the river, etc., After seeing stuff like that and other, i understood life is so cheap in COL. Dont make enemies in COL!

I really makes you realize how lucky we are having the opp't to live/work in 1st world country AND able to travel freely.

Also, keep mind that EXPAT have it made.. because if the shit-hits-the-fan, you can ALWAYS get out and move back home. 99% of the locals don't have that option if things go south, ie, increase crime, political unstability or unemployment.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:30:

Life is a tragedy Hollywood, I agree with some of what you are saying. What I was trying to say nobody understands or takes it the wrong way. Hmmm. Oh well, I will leave my philosophy for me to understand and appreciate. It is not important that I have others understand where I am coming from. What is important at this juncture is where I am going. I will try and reserve further comments so that I am not misunderstood. Denigration and fantasies are mine to conjure up and for you to berate me on. And if I want to make comments on my own country so be it. Canada is my country, we have freedom of speech and I am at liberty to say what I want. I love having holier than thou comments when I say things here.
In terms of making me defensive you have...you condensending ! at at ##$%%^%^^^& sub-species of ex pats...who made you God?

Having said what I had to, thanks for welcoming me to Colombia..

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:38:

Whatever dude Glad you got that off your chest.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:39:

Great Observation Caslug yes I agree, I have not seen poverty on the scale you are talking about. yes I should be thankful because I can travel and so on. You are correct. I agree also..don't make enemies...yes, yes and yes. Your comments are greatly appreciated and right on the mark. We in north america should be very grateful. I think we are, but I also think that the "family unit" which includes and is not limited to the immediate family in Canada is degenerating. Our morals and virtures are being compromised by our facination with the $$$$$$$ Life is good here, but there are things under the surface that do not bode well with me. Anyway, thanks for your comments..points well taken.
Frank

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Lostgringo says on Jul 25, 2005, 13:41:

Hollywood Me too nothing like venting nowadays when I don't have to suck it up. lol
Take Care

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 25, 2005, 17:40:

I agree with Mr. Hollywood - you are over-romanticizing Colombia, dude. Poverty and violence have left many broken families. Plenty of men have second families with their mistresses - that's an improvement? Heck, my wife's brother-in-law is married to his own aunt! What does that tell you? How many Canadians are married to their own aunts?

I agree with Kat - my sister-in-law lives in a new apartment building in Salitre and I like it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Sam Salmon says on Jul 25, 2005, 20:49:

Salitre Reminds Me Of Oakridge Without the Chinese Salitre is as bland/tasteless a mall as any anywhere-ditto the 'hood
Of course it repesents a certain side of life in Las Americas-one you know well.

' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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caslug says on Jul 25, 2005, 21:57:

franko.. You're moving for love, and that in itself is a very good reason(if not the best of reasons)..YOu should have a romantic vision of LIFE WITH your NOVIA..NOT a romantic vision of LIFE IN COL

"Our morals and virtures are being compromised by our facination with the $$$$$$$"..

what do you think is happen in COL? maybe the difference is in NA we work our asses off for $$$ to buy luxury things and to travel(to COL, LOL!)..IN COL they work their asses off so they can eat or their kids can eat.. seniors that SHOULD be retired or have family care for them, are out on the street selling you chiclets(candy) & cigaretts. Mothers and children begging or selling crap in the street so they dont go hungry that day. Where's that tight family unit huh? That's the reality of COL(any many if not ALL 3rd world country)... Heck, i dont live in COL, i'm just a tourist and i see stuff like that ALL THE TIME..

As morals.. you're talking about a country where you armed men/women run around in the mountains(and city), killing, robbing, kidnapping, torturing people for idealogy or drug profits. Kids are growing up w/o fathers because the father up and left, or where many men&women are go for the easy money(sex/drugs) for whatever reason they have.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 01:35:

Colombia sounds like a terrible place according to all of you! Why should I bother to go? Colombia sounds terrible according to all of you! Any good people there? Hell, some of you have your heads in the sand. Sure all of this exists and I feel bad for those who are suffering. I have done many good things for people and will continue to to that. I do not have rose colored glasses on. Do any of your have any idea of what I am talking about? Should we paint all of Colombia with one broad brush? Just once in this particular forum I would like to hear you people say something positive about Colombia.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 26, 2005, 06:05:

Saliter plaza is one of the b Salitre plaza is one of the best shopping center, no much different from the andino (btw I hate shopping centers)Salitre is a very nice area if you go to metrocuadrado.com it says this one of the areas where properties are going up in prices. I think because is very central, easy access to the airport and the terminal of transport, you will have salitre magico, the sport complex and the Simon Bolivar Park near too. If you go to la Esperanza or serrana, they are part of ciudad Salitre they are really nice neighbourhoods, There is an American company that put all his employees in serrana, the apartments are really nice. I will always recommend Ciudad Salitre. Franko44 just go to Colombia and try it for yourself, many people love it and never have any problems, and your g/f is Colombia so she will help you along the way. My husband said he will retire there too, and I have no problem with that. I looking forward to it

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 26, 2005, 07:00:

Just once "Just once in this particular forum I would like to hear you people say something positive about Colombia."

Uh, maybe something like this, that I wrote in one of the posts you reacted so violently to? "Colombia is a terrific country and living here will be a great experience."

Look man, all of us here love Colombia. But obviously you don't want to hear anything we have to say about some of the harsh realities. So why don't you check back in with us in 2 or 3 months and let us know how wrong we all were.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 07:26:

Kat1 Thanks Kat1 for your comments and encouragement. I was beginning to think that "all" of Colombia was not worthe seeing. My girlfriend is actually taking 6 weeks off work to show me around. She works for the government in Bogota and has saved up these holidays. I will be sure check into the sport complex you mentioned as I want to get into shape as part of my daily routine there. I tried the link you posted but it was all in Spanish...maybe later it will make more sense to me once I learn more Spanish. Thanks anyway and I am happy to know that some people consider moving to Bogota besides me. I have posted a number of my observations here in the forum but all of them have been attacked.

I had stupidly thought that most Colombians were warm, family oriented, peacefull, hard working, law abiding and generous to their family. I had thought that Colombians, unlike many Canadians (who depend on welfare), depend on each other especially family members to survive. I guess I was wrong. I guess from what I have learned here, everything in Colombia is over shadowed by murder, drugs and poor. Funny thing is my girlfriend loves Bogota and gets along there quite well. She feels completely safe and travels by bus wherever she goes. Of course she is quick to point out that she does not go into some areas of Colombia. My girlfriend lives with her mother and is very family oriented. Her mother owns her own house in Bogota and my girlfriend owns her own apartment (she rents it out). They work very hard to survive. They do not drive cars or spend money like it grows on trees. She knows that she is only only one hearbeat away from being poor herself. I am sure she is better off than most Colombians but she could lose it all if her health were bad and she lost her job. She watches her money. Her brother's wife had a baby not too long ago. Now my girlfiend is dedicated to this baby. She wants the baby to learn English and go to university. She will help with money and support the baby to this end. She also helps her mother when needed. My girlfriend would never think of abondoning her mother and coming to Canada to live with me. She would have to give up her family ties in Bogota and the pension she will receive from work also. She has been working for the government for 20 years now.
I understand that there are bad people in the world and that the circumstances in Bogota and Colombia are far from perfect. However, I am not going to Bogota to judge people there or project my values upon them. I am hoping to go there and blend in with their culture and their ways. I am hoping to meet my girlfriend's family who appear to be law abiding and hard working Colombians who have strong family values.
I know there is poverty and crime in the streets of Bogota and I have worked with criminals most of my adult life. Maybe it will be difficult, but I am going to try and see and understand the good qualities of Colombians and their love for life.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 07:47:

hollywood I do not doubt there are harsh realities in Bogota. I understand this. Having said this have you found anything good about Colombia you would like to share? Or, are you living there purely for business? What is your attraction to Colombia? How can you live there with all the bad things going on? How do you justify your making money off the backs of the Colombian people? Do you give to charity in Colombia or do you give back in any way? What is your day like in Colombia. Do you have family there? What is your mother country?
I did not react in a negative way to you pointing out the realities of Colombia I reacted negatively to the way you said it! You were condensending! I think you mentioned something about some ex pats who were a "sub species!" You went on to say things like a fantasy world some us live in. That is why I responded negatively.
I would like to hear what your normal day is like in Bogota. What you find interesting about Colombians in general. Are they any different than North Americans in general? Are there places to go to where you feel safe and can enjoy the hussle and bussle of life on the streets? I welcome any comments about Colombia but talk to me with respect and I will do the same for you Hollywood. In the end, I am here to learn and share my life experiencs. I am not here to find fault with anyone nor am I here for confict.

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aztec says on Jul 26, 2005, 08:07:

franko_44 Many of us have been in and out of Colombia for 20 years or more. My advice is that you listen and internalize advice given on this site by well intentioned people. No one here has a desire to dissuade you on your objectives.

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Diomedes Nochez says on Jul 26, 2005, 08:12:

Salitre is nice, not really downtown but close to the botanic garden.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 26, 2005, 08:15:

Here's the problem, Franko. You've got this "Colombia = Good, Canada = Bad" mindset going on which is completely unrealistic. You'll find out soon enough that all places have their good and bad points and no place is perfect. Aside from that, this attitude will get you into trouble in Colombia. If you think that "most Colombians were warm, family oriented, peaceful, hard working, law abiding" sure, you're right. You can say that about Canada too. Compared to Canada though, Colombia is no walk in the park when it comes to crime and violence.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Diomedes Nochez says on Jul 26, 2005, 08:17:

"Colombia is no walk in the park when it comes to crime and violence."
London neither ;) or Nueva York.

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juanalejo says on Jul 26, 2005, 08:18:

franko_44 I really have not read the whole thread but I can say that Hollywood is one of the few non-Colombians in this site who in my opinion understands the good and the bad in this country. Most of the non-Colombians who post here tend to see only the dark side of the country like with special enphasis on making sure this is the only side that exists. It also does blow my mind on trying to understand how this people even visit this country far less live in it. But what they never tend to say is that regardless people here tend to enjoy life to such an extent that it even makes these people cling to what ever reminds them of Colombia even if it is just posting daily on this site.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 26, 2005, 09:49:

Just for kicks Franko, here's the answers to your questions.

Having said this have you found anything good about Colombia you would like to share?

Yes, a lot. I've got great friends here. I like the fun-loving attitude of most Colombians. I like how, faced with massive tragedies, Colombians not only carry on but find joy and beauty in their lives. I love walking 400-year old streets and standing on walls built to fend off pirates. I love the jungle. I love the many different kinds of music. That's only the beginning.

Or, are you living there purely for business?

I'm here on business but how can you say that you're "purely" anywhere? There's a lot more to my life than work.

What is your attraction to Colombia?

See above.

How can you live there with all the bad things going on?

Very carefully.

How do you justify your making money off the backs of the Colombian people?

That's a huge assumption, don't you think? My work brings money to the Colombian people, not vice-versa.

Do you give to charity in Colombia or do you give back in any way?

See above.

What is your day like in Colombia.

Great. Thanks.

Do you have family there?

Yes.

What is your mother country?

USA

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caslug says on Jul 26, 2005, 10:01:

Franko.. Sounds like you'll be in a very safe, secure, loving situation. You'll rarely if ever be effected by the BAD side of things. We tell you about them so you are AWARE they EXIST. NOT to paint that you will experience bad things ALL THE TIME. I've spend about 4-5 weeks in COL on two trips, NEVER once was did i felt my life in danger, experience street crime, saw ANY violence or was offer drugs. BUT that doesn't mean i will let my guard down on my next trip.

If i didnt like COL i wouldnt be returning for a month starting this weekend.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 14:33:

good things about Colombia Thanks for all the good comments about Colombia. Nice to hear. I ran this post with comments about Colombia in terms of what I believe and wanted to learn more about the culture. That is all. I welcomed comments back. I just don't like "anyone" talking down to me. That is all. I respect the views of others even though they may not be my own. All I ask that if you have advice for me, please use a little tact in giving it. My plan is to retire in Colombia and marry my girlfriend. If I have to see and observe things that go against my beliefs and what I used to, I will have try and live it. But, for me living with it is also trying to understand it. I have been on this planet more I would guess than most people posting here. I have sought knowledge through University and by other means like this venue. If you have advice please do not be condensending. Not everyone in the world is born with your superior intellegence.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 14:52:

roofus I am a practical man roofus. And this is the key isn't it? How will I blend in? I will live like a King there but will it be enough? Will the things that go on there make me want to go home? Well I spent the younger years of my life on the steets myself. I learned what I know the hard way. I turned my life around and went to University. No silver spoon here. But in all fairness, your question is right on the mark. I am leaving the comfort of my country to go to Colombia. A country I know little about and a country that is understood by many. If i tell someone I am going to live in Colombia they look at me like I have 3 heads lol.

Plan B: I will be taking a real estate course over the internet while living in Bogota. I have to return to Canada in February to do my taxes. So, I can return to Canada and sell real estate if I wish to(back in the bloody rat race!. It is difficult to survive in Victoria BC on my pension.

Plan C: Have my girfriend fill out papers when she comes to visit in September for immigration to Canada in a few years. Marry her in Canada this August. Travel back and forth to Colombia myself and have her travel to Canada until she retires.

If Colombia and I are not a good fit and things do not work with my novia, Canada is certainly an option. However, I will stop off in Panama on my way back. Panama has a great system for retiries there.

Having said this, there are three main factors that are drawing me to Bogota at this time.

1. my girlfriend
2. the weather
3. cost of living

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Crazy4Cali says on Jul 26, 2005, 14:57:

Well if you're used to Victoria the weather in Bogota will look very familiar.

Just remember in your analysis:

There is more to Colombia than Bogota.

There are more colombianas there than your current girlfriend.

Don't forget Costa Rica... It, too, is popular with the North American crowd. (think Colombia, though smaller and more laid-back)

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 15:06:

Crazy Thanks for your comments..actually a week after my arrival my novia, her family and myself are travelling to Cartegena. We will be staying at a decameron hotel. She want to go to another decameron too not far from there.

yes, there are many Colombians in Bogota crazy lol. But these Canadian eyes only see my novia.

I did a little research on Costa Rica and it seems to be getting more "americanized" and more expensive. i also heard that crime was on the rise there. And i wonder if the weather can compare with Bogota.

Too late now crazy I am all geared up for Colombia and my novia.

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Crazy4Cali says on Jul 26, 2005, 15:11:

I was speaking in general... That your "Canadian eyes only see my novia" is a good thing. I'm sure that will make your time in Colombia much more enjoyable.

I have the same problem with my eyes so I understand.

WRT Costa Rica, Yes the tourist destinations are no longer a secret, but there is still some lesser developed areas if you're looking for seclusion. Neither would I rate San Jose up there with Bogota in terms of culture or variety, well, maybe variety, but on a much smaller scale. Cali is bigger than SJO.

Crime, I think on the whole, crime in C.R. might be rising, but it's got a long way to go before it reaches Colombian proportions. For starters, C.R. doesn't have an active civil war, while Colombia is fighting no less than three organized groups. Also, the population of the entire country of Costa Rica (something like 4 million) is about 1/2 that of Bogota. So that, in itself, scales down a lot of things.

Weather-wise, you can have just about any kind of weather you want, there. From cold and rainy, to hot and sunny. In that sense, it's very interesting.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 26, 2005, 15:27:

This cracks me up: "I did a little research on Costa Rica and it seems to be getting more "americanized" and more expensive. i also heard that crime was on the rise there." You're worried about the crime in CR and you're going to Colombia? CR is one of the safest countries in Latin America. Why doesn't the never-ending violence and ever-present security risk in Colombia present the same issue?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Crazy4Cali says on Jul 26, 2005, 15:47:

That and... ...when was the last time you heard about a gringo (or anyone else, for that matter) getting (involuntarily) kidnapped in Costa Rica?

And bombs? It just doesn't happen.

The ticos (Costa Ricans) are just to mellow to hassle with that sort of activity.

Pura Vida!

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platano says on Jul 26, 2005, 18:09:

Franko44, I have posted lots of positive stuff on Colombia (as well as critical stuff). The positive stuff gets you labelled as living in DisneyWorld.

I have seen worse poverty in the outskirts of Mexico City (coming in by train from Palenque) and lots worse in Delhi and Mumbai, than I have in places like Aguablanca or Siloe in Cali or the poor parts of Medellin. (I have visited Bogota many times and have stayed in the area around Carrera 4 #22 near the Universidad de Bogota Jorge Tadeo Lozano and visited other areas but not the south) The kids at the intersections do get to you. Poverty there is.

You got several things going for you. Salitre is a good part of Bogota, you are in love with someone there, and you have worked as a parole officer in Toronto (so you didn't just come in out of the rain). I'd say your best bet now would be to seriously dedicate yourself to becoming fluent in Spanish. It helps a lot!

You're gonna love Colombia!

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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Lostgringo says on Jul 26, 2005, 20:42:

positive comments welcomed How refreshing to get positive comments regarding Colombia. You are absolutely correct regarding the bashing that goes on these forums. Especially towards those of use who are more positive in life. Tell me about the poverty and crime in Bogota. Tell me something I "don't know". This is all old news. Everyone in the world knows about the poverty and crime in Colombia.

What I tried to do here is have an "educational" discussion. Wrong! Lol. Not here. No way. Lol. All I was trying to do was get an idea of what makes Colombians so proud and learn a little about their culture. What makes them different than Canadians? Why with all that is going on around them do they still have such a zest for life. Why is music so important in their lives?

I don't need know how I live in a fantasy world because I do not know about the crime that goes on and the poverty. I have a Masters Degree in Criminology and have lived on the streets as a youngster. Please, if you cannot respond to my posts in a positive way do not repond at all. I am not saying that you should not point out negative things that go in Colombia but please do it in an appropriate way. No one likes to be admonished for asking questions or trying to understand another culture.

Planano, my girlfriend has offered to teach me Spanish in Colombia but I think I will actually attend a school as I want to become very affluent in the language.

I may also take a few courses in Latin American studies at a University as well.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 29, 2005, 06:21:

utopiacowboy Please note...I did not say CR has more crime than Colombia. I did not say I was "worried" about crime there also. I was just pointing a few things that I have found out about that country. Again, I have done some research and when I factor in the cost of living, the weather and everything else, Bogota Colombia seems like a good option for someone like myself retiring. And, I never said that safety was not an issue for me in Colombia. In terms of Latin America, from what I have learned, Panama is the safest place to live in. However, I am no authority like yourself.

The property values have increased dramatically in Costa Rica and I have this thing about being "Americanized". The more Americans become involved with "commercialism", usually the higher the cost of living. For example, my trips to Cuba are very inexpensive as compared to many other Carribean countries. Once the Americans commercialize Cuba the cost to travel to Cuba will rise dramatically. To be frank with you, I have had my fill of the Americans. I am sure you will have something to say about that. Anyway, I have travelled throught the US and find much of it very commercialized.
Here is a question for you...Utopiacowboy...where would you retire on a limited income and why??????

You don't have to point out that the US has commrcialized some of Colombia. I know that. I have read many comments in this forum and have learned that I can be relatively safe in Colombia if I follow a few rules. There are no guarantees in this world.

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 29, 2005, 07:48:

Again, it's all George Bush's fault. If parts of Colombia are commercialized, I am sure that the Colombians ("Americans") have had something to do with that.

I find your obsession with the US very strange but then again, you don't seem to be alone. PBH is supposed to be about Colombia but I am sure at least half the posts are about the US. I think any post about the US should be deleted but that's just my opinion.

My wife still has her apartment in Medellin - her sister's family is living there. I would never retire in Colombia with the present security situation. However I have no plans to ever retire anyway - I want to continue working my whole life.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 29, 2005, 12:45:

Utopia come out of the clouds Wake up and smell the coffee (preferably Colombian)! Do you really know the meaning of obsession? I mention the US and you jump all over it like white on rice. What is your problem? Where have you been all your life. The United States love affair with capitalism is ALL OVER!
Live with it. If you are going to respond to my comments please use common sense. I know I would appreciate. By the way, have you ever agreed with any posts in these rooms?

Maybe your a mushroom and we should feed you sh...t. Sure places like Cuba are still far from coming along side the US, but most countries have a Mc Donalds and so on. Yes I know that Mc Donalds is not the true measure of USA capitalism. Do I need to name Oil Companies, Hotel chains or Restaurant and Bar franchises? Do I have to go into a lengthy discussion for you to understand this? The Americna dollar drives the world economy for the most part. Why? Because they have their cute little capitalistic hands in everything lol. Many countries invest in the US and especially their currency. So did Cuba up intil this year.

And no, it is not George Bush's fault. This did not just start with George Bush and it won't end with George Bush either. I would personally like to live in a Country that is less USA oriented that is all.

OK?

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 29, 2005, 12:48:

Venezuela I suggest Venezuela then.

Bogotá is basically Santa Ana California but with more English on the signs.

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Thededalus says on Jul 29, 2005, 14:56:

That Pot & Kettle Thing "What is your problem? Where have you been all your life. The United States love affair with capitalism is ALL OVER!
Live with it. If you are going to respond to my comments please use common sense. I know I would appreciate. By the way, have you ever agreed with any posts in these rooms?

Maybe your a mushroom and we should feed you sh...t."

Um, Franko...why all the condescension???

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 29, 2005, 20:23:

A lot of the companies that you would label as "US capitalism" are in fact European companies. Even your response/rant sounded a little like something the Unabomber would have written. I think Hollywood's right - you'd be happier in Venezuela or Cuba. You're going to be bummed in Bogota seeing all the franchises and oil company marquees you see back home. Then what?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 29, 2005, 21:02:

Yep George Bush is the one causing all the capitalism Hmm sounds like you are the one fixated on the US and especially George Bush.

Well I have never been to Bogota so maybe you are correct, it looks like the US. Maybe the cost of living is higher than I expected also..you are the expert. I does not matter whether it is US capitalism or European...the point was "prices usually go higher with increased capitalism in a country". It is just an observation on my part. No big deal.

Didn't you read what I said about real estate increasing in places like CR with more US or Europian companies getting involved there? Check out the prices of prime real estate then come back and make an educated comment. That would be the first lol.

All I was trying to say is I wanted to find a place with decent weather that was economical. And, that I did not want to be surrounded with American fast food cuisine.

The fact that my girlfriend lives in Bogota is an added bonus. Why do I try to explain..it's useless with some of you in this thread with your "attack mentality". May I remind you the unabomber murdered people.

Also, moving to Cuba would be very difficult. Don't you know that Cuba is a communist country? Which means that it is not that easy to just drop in there and stay, never mind retire. Have your ever been there? Please someone with some common sense talk and educate us about Colombia. I love hearing about the culture, pop music, food, recreation, travel all the good stuff. The rest of you morons get a life...

Ok I have said my thing....now you can rant all you want....I am finished this bullshit...hope this thread is shut down...

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 29, 2005, 21:51:

Reading into things a little much? Best to take it all with a grain of salt. There is only so much "reading between the lines" that can be done when one cannot hear the tone that accompanies something. I think that by and large you have recieved a collection of interesting and worthwhile remarks regarding Colombia and Bogota, and you would do well to keep them in the back of your mind when you finally go there.

I'm have to say that I am somewhat amused that you have been responding to everyone's posting with a unique (and often lengthy) response-post of your own. I'd say it is flattering to spend that kind of time on each of person, but I don't really think we all expect it (at least I don't) .

Another idea for an info source:
Try contacting the Canadian Embassy in Bogota via telephone. It might be worth your while to chat with some of the Canadian staffers there and see what they have to say about life in Bogota. That way it would be less chance of miscommunications, as can happen online.

UTC certainly wasn't jumping down your throat, don't take it personally. The US does come up alot here, and UTC was just venting some air. (Since such as large proportion of the posters here are from the US and one can really only explain things relative to what one knows, it is can be very difficult to avoid comparisons with the US). Besides you said you had a thing about "Americanized".

So take a chill pill and go walk around the Harbour or something.
'night!

;)

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Crazy4Cali says on Jul 29, 2005, 22:15:

If you don't like "americanization" Salitre is probably not the best place to go, what with that big, whoppin' McDonalds out front. Not to mention that ginormous mall that puts many American malls to shame, complete with its three stories, one of which is loaded with more "American" influence in the food court.

The horror....the horror....

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utopiacowboy says on Jul 29, 2005, 23:09:

No, I'm not an expert but at least I've been to frigging Salitre. When you go on about fast food and "Americanization", I just don't think you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you see all the same gas stations and fast food franchises that you were cursing back home. Bogota isn't Pitcairn Island.

People go to Cuba all the time. Maybe you can claim political asylum.

The thing that I notice about your posts is that you admit you've never been to Colombia but when those of us who have spent time there and are married to Colombians make a few idle comments, you get very resentful. Geez, I hope you ARE happy in Bogota. I always enjoy visiting my sister-in-law who lives in SALITRE.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lostgringo says on Jul 30, 2005, 08:49:

well there you have it ok ok I am going to chill out.

I am only posting here to learn. Learn about Colombia and the people who live there. I do not like being put down for asking questions as I have in this forum. It is simple. I respect you and you respect me. Nothing more nothing less.

Please I am not resentfull about being educated on life in Colombia. I am very thankfull. But I do not like others putting words into my mouth or trying to make me look like an idiot. All I was trying to do is understand and learn without having some people jump all over me!

I will go to Bogota and I may love it like some here do. I hope so, because that is my purpose. I hope that "most" of the people I meet are not condensending and are willing to share their love of Colombia with me. That they do not put me down when I ask questions about their culture and so on. That they are proud and willing to share their thoughts and feelings with me about Colombia.

I posted in this forum to learn. For the most part the response has been fantastic. Thanks to all who submitted posts in a postive fashion and thanks for teaching me a little more about life in Colombia.

Thats all,

Frank

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 30, 2005, 09:16:

FWIW For whatever it's worth, Franko, it doesn't appear to me that your "questions" were posted in good faith or with an open mind. Basically, it appears that you wanted your own assumptions confirmed and any time I or anyone else contradicted that, you accused us of condescenion. However, you're the one calling people names.

Anyway, I do wish you well in Colombia. I think it's going to surprise you in both good and bad ways.

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ColombianoX says on Jul 30, 2005, 12:16:

After seeing that list, looks like I'm going to have to pay the manager of that plaza a visit, ha ha!

ColombianoX

'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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Lostgringo says on Jul 30, 2005, 17:37:

ok thanks for the info thanks very much for pointing all those companies and that certain fashions and trends exist in Colombia. Do you really think I did not know that? Do they exist there like they do in the US? Have any of you actually been to the US? Maybe I should ask this "do you believe that Colombia is on the same level as the US when it comes to in your face commercialism?" Advertising and a Mc Donalds every 10 blocks in a City. Neon signs on every store and bar and everyone driving in new cars. You get the drift don't you?

Really what is the problem here? Am I going to another USA in South America? I have seen many of your posts in other rooms and think that you are very intelligent people. What is good about Colombia anyway? Mc Donalds? Designer clothes? Do they have any ethnic food there? You guys are something else. Let's lay down the gloves and talk about Colombia the beautiful not Colombia the US or crime or whatever. Stop the foolishness.

For matter this whole US thing was misunderstood by Hollywood and dragged out by others who read something between the lines. Most of you post many positive things in other rooms about Colombia and provide very good information to people.

All I was ever trying to point out is that I was hoping for an easier life in Bogota than the one I have where I currently reside, given I am on a pension.

Oh, screw it

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Dan says on Jul 30, 2005, 17:45:

One for the List DUNKEN DONUTS They're everywhere. Maybe not IN Salitre but I'm sure there's one nearby.

God Bless America!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 30, 2005, 18:09:

Boo hoo Just be sure to tell any bad people you meet in Colombia that you were an outlaw biker/parole officer back in Canada. That will keep them in line.

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lpdiver says on Jul 31, 2005, 06:38:

franko... It sounds to me like you have the best of both worlds...an expat pension and a Colombian that you love. foreign dollars go a long way in Colombia. It does not have to be a one way do or die venture though. For every airplane venturing into Colombia there is one leaving.

Go down and test the waters for a year. don't divest yourself of all your homeland interests though...you will have plenty of time to do so at a later date if you desire to.

T

"cook some rice!"

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 01:02:

holloywood get off my ass. One moment you sound like a good person who is knowedgeable and helpfull the next you turn into an Asshole..

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 09:19:

Why does that comment remind me of this old joke.

A little girl used to go on Sunday drives with her father. One Sunday the father couldn't go because he had work to do so the little girl went with her mother. When they came home, the father asked her how was the drive. The little girl replied, "Daddy, we saw cows and horses and pigs and farms but you know what? We didn't see a single asshole all day!"

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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caslug says on Aug 6, 2005, 09:35:

franko..you initially spell out.. what you wanted, easy life, getting away fr the rat race, close knit family, etc., You remember, since you are RETIRED you dont HAVE TO WORRY about working anymore, hence you´re not in the rat race. Since you have money(by local standard) you WILL have an easy life, as for close knit family, if that´s is what want then you´ll find it. BUT keep in mind that it´s a two way street, you want tight family unit, be prepared to help out finacially(ie, when one close relative is sick or unemployed and NEEDS a little loan. WHO do you think the family is going to go to? You´ll be asked to put into, and your share will be HIGHER because it´s proportinally higher than local wages.

I think that´s what everyone is directly or subtle trying to tell you. Dont take this the wrong way, but while your background(ex law person, ex biker) may mean something in CAD. It carries NO weight in COL, actually, while many street smart is universal, you´ll have to learn a whole set of additional localize street smart. It´s not like you can immediately be able to walk thru any neighbor at anytime in COL, just because you were able to do that back home. I consider myself a fairly street smart guy and good judge of people. BUT what i found VERY difficult was the langauge barrier, when you can speak the local langauge FLUENT, you can lots of time tell by people tone, mannerism, or speach pattern what type of people they are or be able to ask more subtle but important questions regarding safety. BUT since my spanish is no where that good, i can get a blunt reading on situation and people, but NOT nowhere as accurate as i can i US..

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 15:31:

caslug I thank you very much for your comments. Very well said. You are correct, it will be very different and difficult for me. I never wanted anyone to think I am going to Colombia and am going to "push my weight around". Hell, how stupid can you get? I only shared some of my history with you people to show that I was not born with a "silver spoon" in my mouth. I can say something here and share my life experiences and have some A-hole jump all over me. I wonder if they would have the guts to say this to my face?

I respect your comments Caslug regarding my situation and what I can look forward to. I am very fortunate having girlfriend to show me around and being able to talk to good people on Poorbuthappy.

Frank

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 15:36:

Asshole Utopia...I love that analogy....great to have a laugh...even at my expense..lol. I like Jimmy Buffet's song the "asshole". It goes something like this..."you have been an asshole all your life". Your friends know it, your mother knows it..."your and asshole".

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 15:50:

lpdiver Thanks very much for the encouragement T. I have only 10 more days until I embark upon the greatest adventure in my life. I unfortunately have mixed feelings about this 6 month vacation. I have had numerous posts from individuals regarding my safety and how ignorant I am regarding Colombia. Some of these posts have been personal attacks against me.

However, I have also had numerous comments of encouragement from positive and decent people. It is these comments and attitudes I want to gravitate towards. I know there is inherent danger in Colombia but I refuse to let it control my life and stop me from going there.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 6, 2005, 17:44:

Why did you think it was at your expense? There was something about your comment that made me think about the joke but that was about it. It surely wasn't meant as a barb.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 18:07:

Utopia Sorry I meant no harm. I am getting a little gun shy here in these rooms...I apologize for taking it the wong way...Have a great day....and I did love the analogy...we can all learn something from thise littel saying..lol

Frank

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 6, 2005, 18:18:

Buen viaje Good luck in Colombia, Franko. Try not to lose your temper all the time and call people assholes every time they tease you a wee bit.

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Lostgringo says on Aug 6, 2005, 20:00:

"Mr Dollywood" Look "Mr. Dollywood" I don't take to you at all. I find you very condensending and rude. I don't mind being teased nor someone poking fun at me. Don't take me for an idiot. You have been very rude to me and that is why I believe you are a class A, Number #1, Bonofide, Numero Uno "Asshole". Just as long as you know that, we will get along fine. By the way "Mr. Dollywood" do you actually live in Bogota or is it the US? You seem to hate both countries so that is why I ask. And, where do you find time to do all of this posting? Care to tell us all here how old you are? Do you actually have a job?

The problem here is that you do not have the mental capicity to differenciate between kidding, joking, teasing and being rude. You actually think you are funny and witty, when in fact you are being ignorant to people. Everyone likes a good joke and most can take being made fun of (if it is done in a tactfull way).

Problem #1: You cannot tell the difference between making "good fun" of people without insulting them.

Problem #2: You hardly see any merit in a person's post and love to post "your perceived" opinion...often wrong because you have twisted the comment (meaning), around to suit your own negative and shallow knowledge base.

Problem #3: You almost always respond to a post in a negative fashion.

Problem #4: Nobody can tell you this so that you can comprehend it (it goes in one ear and out the other). You are beyond help. Sorry.

Problem #5: The more I pay attention to you and your sillyness the more fuel I add to the fire.

Here is a proverb that I think that is appropriate here "Mr. Dollywood", "It is better to be thought stupid, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Bottom Line is:

And I have m mentioned this before, you treat me with respect and I will do the same in kind.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 7, 2005, 06:28:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

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