Salaries for Professionals in Bogota ?????

rafeal says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:23:

Does anyone have an idea of the salaries??

Gracias

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:28:

Imagine a minimum wage job here and then go down from there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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rjstuff says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:35:

They are not so high My fiancee's brother is a computer professional in Brranquilla and makes around $1,000 US dollars a month - like UTC said that's close to minimum wages here! (minimum federal wages are 5.15 an hour or $892.67 a month!)
He would be making closer to $5000 or more a month here in a similar job!
Bogota may pay a little more but jobs are hard to find in Colombia - good paying jobs that is! Good luck

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 08:41:

I was actually thinking about a minimum wage type job rather than the federal minimum wage. Most employers have to pay more than the minimum wage. Even clerks in a convenience store here make $7 an hour. My wife is a chemical engineer and used to run one of the shops in a large textile plant in Itaqui. She used to make about $700 a month for a 6 day work week. She supervised 90 people. God knows what they made.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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robhaynie says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:20:

Ecopetrol Engineers at Ecopetrol start out making 2mil a month.......one guy i have talked to hopes to double that within 5 years and that would be considered a good life down there.

Unless you are a Colombian national these companies will not hire you. Your best bet is to join a firm who sends expats like Chevron, Ford, Nike, BP, OXY, CAT, Intel, Phillip Morris, SLB, Schering Plough(These are all the expats i have met that either live in BGT or travel to COl extensively. Although i have heard from others Cisco, AA, British Tob., Monsanto, Cemex have expats down there too

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juanalejo says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:24:

Specific You have to be more specific on to how much experience the people you are asking have in the field. No need to say that an accountant would have to be trained for Colombian taxation and accounting practices. Salaries can vary a lot depending on the size of company. And also have in mind that the Colombian Purchasing Power Parity is more than twice that of the income per capita which means (although not always literally) that the salary will go that much more when living here.

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rjstuff says on Aug 8, 2005, 09:46:

I agree UTC even some of the McDonalds here have to pay $10 an hour when the market gets tight (after schools start.) And one good thing even with lower wages in Clombia is, that you can live in less - my fiancee only made about $800 a month but always took care of her mom (medical bills, medicines); always had a maid and indulged her niece and nephew and the dogs! it is harder for us to learn to live in less (we are too damn soft but it can be done. Another Aguila for this damn heat please!)

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rafeal says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:18:

I cannot believe a chemical engineer made only $700 a month working 6 days a week. sounds like exageration.

I saw in the El Tiempo many jobs 2 to 4mil a month.

Juan,
An Accountant would be an accountant for a mfg company.


There are plenty of nice cars and condos in Bogota, surely the pay must be enough???

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:32:

OK, don't believe me. Do you want me to send you a copy of one of her pay stubs? Of course that was back in the day before the dollar's fall against the peso. So you could make her salary as about $850 a month now. Rjstuff is right - the cost of living there is so low that my wife was able to do ok on that salary. BTW a six day work week is normal in Colombia. It's a regular workers paradise.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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aztec says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:41:

Taxi drivers I have personally met two drivers who had university degrees in engineering. Know another person who has a degree in petroleum engineering and another with a masters degree in Law. They cannot find a job in their field.

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rafeal says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:47:

Yes, but like I said look at all those nice cars and condos, nice stores, certainly there are many Colombians in Bogota doing well.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:53:

In absolute numbers sure there is a sizeable class of persons who live well in Colombia. In any country you can find an upper class with money. Don't confuse that with the actual situation for a normal person. My brother-in-law owns several condos, a finca, a couple of cars etc. but he was born into Colombia's upper class. I think you should go down there, look for a job and then come back and tell us about it. After all, you know so much more than we do.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Aug 8, 2005, 11:59:

Taxi Drivers & Working Hours. I have personally met some engineers who drive taxis also, that was in NYC and they were both Colombian. That does not mean the jobs in Colombia are easy to find, it just means that degrees are not always indicative of finding a job.

Working hours in Colombia are currently at 48 per week, most offices do not work 6 days but comply with 48 during 5 days, factories and construction tend to do the opposite, somewhat shorter hours in the week and half a day on Saturday. This is not always the standard as many places will have people work over hours and most employees I know tend to like the extra money rather than the time off.

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rjstuff says on Aug 8, 2005, 13:33:

My fiancee was lucky She worked for the electric company Electri-Caribe I think and only worked 5 days a week and they were very laid back from what I understood. Her sister in law is a dentist but can only find 2 part time jobs (a few hours every week or so!) She ends up working about 20 hours a week and this is 5 or 6 years after finishing dental school. (Oh, she does make more money per hour though - about $10-15 per hour.) She is even considering moving to Spain or Canada for the money - as she believes that even as a dental assistant she can make much more money outside Colombia than she can as a dentist in Colombia. My take on Colombia is that jobs are hard to come by and you make little money - once you establish yourself and maybe if they like you - you may start making more money but I do not know how you can move from $800 a month to $4000 a month say in 7 or 10 years? Good luck

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robhaynie says on Aug 8, 2005, 15:14:

Like with any other country 10% of the population owns 90% of the wealth. The condos and cars you see are in neigborhoods like Poblado, La colina, La Calera. But that does not represent the real Colombia which is lower middle to lower class. It seems like everyone down there is educated but nobody has a job. So yeah the average starting sal for a engineer is about 2mil. It may seem like shit to us but can be there is fierce competition for those jobs.

But i really do think that you have to be born into money to succeed in Colombia. Its not a place where you can go 0 to millionaire like the states.

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rafeal says on Aug 8, 2005, 19:38:

"But i really do think that you have to be born into money to succeed in Colombia. Its not a place where you can go 0 to millionaire like the states."


How many think this is true?

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Lorenzo de Australia says on Aug 8, 2005, 20:24:

$$$ vs Supply Hi all,

thought i'd add my 100pesos...

I know most of what i will say has been said on this site before...
but anywys...

Jobs. I'm sure well paid jobs exist, but with such great supply of educated people, and high corruption.. you would have to be VERY lucky, and probably connected to get a good one. AND thats only for colombians! if you are an extranjero and want one of those coveted jobs... well... you guess...

Need to be born rich to succeed in colombia?
No. But you better have rich friends.. the lack of access to capital is a major barrier for most colombians... I'm sure if you had say US$20k+, you'd be able to setup shop doing something, or atleast be the backer for some bright colombians...

Only one way to find out... give it a go! Thats what the colombians do.

A La Orden.
Lorenzo



****** ******
"...don't let life get in the way of living..."
Lorenzo 2004

Also, if you want to email me directly... as I'm not always that good with forums... email me at lorrytrippin2 at yahoo.com

****** ******

****** ****** "...don't let life get in the way of living..." Lorenzo 2004 Also, if you want to email me directly... as I'm not always that good with forums... email me at lorrytrippin2@yahoo.com ****** ******

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Rubiazo says on Aug 8, 2005, 20:59:

There are lots of 2million-4million jobs in Bogota. But they are almost all taken.
Using Ecopetrol as an example, my gf applied to them in October, and hasnt heard a thing back from them yet. And yes, they do hire Colombians first (which means always with such a lack of jobs.)
It seems to be very common for people with professional degrees to take a year or two just finding a job in their field.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 8, 2005, 21:26:

You're right, Rafeal. We're all wrong. My wife spent 42 years living in Colombia and unlike you, Sr. Sabelotodo, she has no idea WTF she is talking about. Like I said, I think you should check it out yourself and come back and tell us about it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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BAQ says on Aug 8, 2005, 22:44:

I will say it again As I have said many times, if you are thinking of living here and you DO NOT have a "Supplemental income" from your country of origin like a pension, retirement, savings, a rich uncle, a trust fund ect., you are going to be hard pressed trying the live a lifestyle even remotely close to what you are used to now. Your other option would be to have a large amount of start up capital for a new business and even then, your profit margin wouldn;t be anything close to that in the U.S.A. There are exceptions to every rule but they are far and few between.

Just a thought

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 8, 2005, 22:56:

One example Tell ya how competative the market is. Here in barranquilla, the PUBLIC school teachers have not been paid by the Govt for the past THREE months, yet they continue to work. Why? because they know if they quit there are about 200-300 people standing in line wanting their job. And what does a "Public" school teacher earn you ask? Anywhere from 400.000 - 800.000 pesos per month and to be on the HIGH end, you need to have been teaching in the system for several years. Teachers here work six days a week, 9-10 hours per day.

Just a thought

Semper Fidelis !

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rafeal says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:06:

Everyone paints a really grim picture of life in Bogota.

I have been to Bogota several times, I just have not experienced the grimness/hopelessness portrayed by other posters, but I agree it must exist. Almost everyone I met was cheerful and upbeat, people with nice cars, they had good jobs, and the few condos I was in were beautiful, with beautiful views.
The restaurants were always filled with well dressed people in their 20s to 50s.

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BAQ says on Aug 9, 2005, 10:38:

Yea but Well, LIVING HERE is a hell of a lot different than VISITING. When one visits, they see the TOURIST side of a country, the hotels, restaurants ect and the hotels are usually in the nice section of a city, so yes, you see the people with money.

Don;t know where you live but I am sure there are the good areas and the bad areas. Where do you take a guest when they come to visit?

Colombia is not "Grim", if it was I wouldn;t be living here. The question of JOBS however is what most people don;t understand. With a country such as Colombia having a surpluss of over educated people and an unemployment rate near 15%, thats the reason it would not be easy for a foreigner to live here and find a job, let alone a good paying job.

Semper Fidelis !

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 13:58:

BAQ's exactly right. You may be thinking that the issue in Colombia is that people are poorly educated and that's why they can't get good jobs. So you think to yourself, I have a good education, I'll be able to get the jobs these people can't get. The issue is not a lack of well-educated people - Colombia has many well-educated people who are unemployed and under-employed.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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juanalejo says on Aug 9, 2005, 18:37:

rafeal It is really not a grim picture, it just seems that most posters on this thread are the grim ones. The truth is that unemployment is around 11.4% which is high for the US but very similar to that of Italy and Germany, and just above of France and Spain, yet things are not as complicated there somehow. The truth is that it is a moving economy like most in the world and there is a chance for a well prepared person, not as good as in other countries but not as bad as some people want to portray it. You know how it goes you can see the glass half empty or half full, most Colombians would tend to see it half full, that is what makes us a happy country, but obviously you have those who see it half empty, and many of those are regulars on this site. But any how, my opinion is that you should give it a try, I live here, I have seen lots of success stories maybe not as many as I wish would happen, but many do happen. Good luck.

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caslug says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:11:

let´s see rafael.. 60% live in poverty, 11% unemployemnt, probably double that for underemployment. the people who work do lots of low end jobs. Ever notice how many street vendors their are? I took a bus from Medellin to Pereria, and some major stop a lady would get on the bus selling pasteries, then the bus would travel about 2 miles she would get off and repeat the trip from the other side of the road. I´m sure she´s happy if at least couple of people buy 1000(40 cent US) peso piece of pastries. So you do the math, so does this 6 days a week, 8 or 10 hrs day. You think she´s living large?

Or how about going to the mall, since you visit bogota before, look at the store clerk. They make minimum wage around 400k peso. There is a reason people live with parents even in their 20´s or 30´s down in COL(or any LA country for that matter), and it´s NOT just because they love their parents. It´s because they have to pool their meager income to scrape by. Sure they´re some well off COL that have decent jobs, but for the vast majority, it´s not paradise.

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caslug says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:14:

saw you mention PROFESSIONAL.. so i´ll admend my post.. and say this..

My and another american went out with 6 girls, 2 COL guys that have a car and are professional. We went out partying, the total bill came to 180k, instead of splitting it between 4 GUYS. We split it 3 way(the 2 col guy chipped in the same amount as me and the other gringo). So if they were making decent money, then why split it 3 ways instead of 4?

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:46:

Is it bleak? Yes and no. It is possible to get ahead through hard work. I know people like my brother-in-law who were born with a silver spoon in their mouths and some who got themselves an education and a good job through hard work. Still, it's completely bass-ackwards to be going someplace where people leave in droves for economic reasons (600,000 Colombians in the US alone) thinking that you're going to get a good job and make a nice living. You don't think the 600,000 here wouldn't prefer to be back in Colombia? Hey, go for it and let us know how wrong we were. I'll be able to tell that chemical engineer that I live with she's full of it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:51:

What countries do NOT have double digit unemployment these days? Some places in Europe are currently in the high teens, aren't they? And for most of my life, Canada has been floating in the 10-13 range.
I know Japan and Mexico generally have low unemployment, but in Mexico they count all the seasonal workers as 'employed'.
Not to say finding a good job in Colombia would be easy. I know from my GF's experiences that it's a real pain in the ass.

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Colombiche says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:54:

I have friends and cousins in Colombia who are doing quite well I have a cousin who lives in Bogota, she graduated as a clinical psychologist, works for a big company, she makes 8 million pesos a month. Not bad.

My other friend works as an executive at a major colombian bank. She graduated in economics and got a masters in the UK. She is making close to 6 millones de pesos al mes.

Another friend lives in Manizales. Makes close to 4 millones in a city where everything is dirt cheap. I have cousins who are engineers, architects and they are not doing so bad. They got a roof over their head (which they own), food on the table, they drive a car and send their kids to private catholic schools. They are not upper class, they are working middle class people.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 19:58:

Tell us more about these people. Were they like my brother-in-law born into the upper class and went to all the "right" schools? Or ordinary folks like my wife who had to work for everything they had? So you think Rafeal is realistic?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Colombiche says on Aug 9, 2005, 20:41:

They are ordinary folks UC.. they were not poor, they were not rich. They had to work, still have to work for everything they have. They are just lucky enough to have good jobs. It happens. 8 million pesos a month is about 3000 USD a month. Nothing special about that. There are people in Colombia who make good money. There are poor people too, but we are talking about the lucky ones here. At least I am.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Aug 9, 2005, 20:44:

If Rafeal can land a good job.. He will be having a blast. Of course, I think the chances of that are very slim, since there are millions of qualified top notch colombian professionals desperately seeking work.

UC, I don't get it. I thought your brother in law is your wife's brother. Are they not from the same family?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 9, 2005, 21:03:

No, her sister's husband.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 9, 2005, 21:52:

If I made 8 million pesos a month in Colombia, I'd be buying a new piece of real estate every year for 8-10 years. Then I'd retire and be making close to that off of the rental income.

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BAQ says on Aug 10, 2005, 01:16:

8 million a month You say "8 million pesos a month is about 3000 USD a month. Nothing special about that"

Well, I have to disagree, the number of people in colombia who EARN 8 million a month is such a small percentage compaired to the "General population". That just doesn;t paint a realistic picture.

I am curious, you say "I have a cousin who..., I have a friend who.., Gunna be strait forward with this question, How much are you making working here in Colombia?

Semper Fidelis !

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Ratzfatz says on Aug 10, 2005, 02:49:

8 millions or 3,000 usd it´s al lot of money!!! my cousin is gynaecologist in Bogotá and he earns less 1,000 usd mensual. If do you have this salary form 3,000 Usd, you will be very privileged .... sure!!!

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NorwegianMale says on Aug 10, 2005, 03:22:

Optimistic view I am considering moving to Medellin in january, and are quite optimistic about the prospects of getting a good job. The reason why I am optimistic, and why I think other foreigners should be too, is:

1. I speak both Spanish (or will be after a short time there) and English. Thats a great advantage if you work for a company with some kind of interrelations with english speaking countries or other multinational companies. My experience is that most Colombians dont speak English.

2. I have a good working background from a country with well functional businesses. As stated in the previuos posts, most Colombians have problems finding a job, and therefor lack the working experience that many companies demand.

3. I am different than Colombians. It is close to always positiv for an organization to have different type of peoples withing their ranks to secure differnt ways to view business matters.

My arguments are all based on the fact that I expect those people doing the employing to be professional individuals who thinks the best for the company.

Just my thoughts!

Hasta luego en Blue, Zona Rosa, Medellin!

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Michael B says on Aug 10, 2005, 08:23:

HELLO? Reality calling 1) Easy to find a well paying professional job in Colombia? Even for people who 'are planing to learn' the language? Even for people who think like "I'm from country X and we KNOW about business, so naturally they will hire ME" . Uh, Right.....when 20% of their own people, all of them speaking the language, and many of them well educated, are looking for work??......I'm sure that under those conditions the big companies are standing in line and fighting each other for their chance to hire a foreinger at tripple the going wage for a well qualified local.

2) Mexico has low unemployment? MEXICO? HELLO??? (Compared to where? Hati? Honduras?)

3) I think a few people here need to take a freshman course in 'Reality 101'. I nominate Utopiacowboy and BAQ to be the teachers. Myself, having an unemployed step daughter with a PhD in enginnering, I can vouch that their take on the subject is much closer to the actual situation than the optismistic outlook some of you have expressed. I'm sure all of us WISH the job outlook was better for our Colombian friends and loved ones....but that just isn't the case.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 10, 2005, 08:38:

Mexico. Look it up if you don't believe me. But like I said, they include seasonal fruit pickers among the ranks of the employed, so the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Also I'd like to point out that at that level of society, it's not uncommon for Colombians to speak a second language (usually English) so being bilingual isn't as much of an advantage as you may think it is.

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Michael B says on Aug 10, 2005, 08:48:

Seasonal fruit pickers Last year the price of coffee was so depressed that in Mexico they literaly could not sell the crop for the labor costs of harvesting it (let alone cover the other costs such as land, equipment, and supplies). Realizing the social unrest that would be caused (or perhaps better to say exaserbated) by the pickers not having ANY cash income for the year, the Mexican government stepped in and subsidzed the labor costs of the harvest.

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rafeal says on Aug 10, 2005, 08:48:

Well , I was just investigating salaries as a first step.

Maybe next time I go down, I will talk to some locals in person, who have good jobs.

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Michael B says on Aug 10, 2005, 09:10:

Wall Street Journal article I think the reporter (or perhaps this office of the Mexican government which provided the information) has employment 'of Mexicans' confused with employment 'in Mexico' (perhaps they confused that on purpose).

Quote from the article "hundreds of thousands of Mexicans seek work each year in the U.S." ---True. Where I live (Dallas, Texas) there are plenty of Mexicans working, but they are NOT working 'in Mexico'. They are here BECAUSE they can't find work IN Mexico. I remember about 4 years ago I was working in a building that had a crew of four janitors. One was legal because she was married to a US man, the other three were using false papers. One of them was a girl only seventeen years old (her papers said 21). She was working TWO janitor jobs, sharing a cheap apartment with three other girls and sending half her money to San Luis, Potosi to help her mother support her younger siblings. Illegal? Yes, but I respected her.

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Colombiche says on Aug 10, 2005, 09:29:

BAQ I don't work in Colombia. If the opportunity present itself I would, but like I said, there is a shortage of available jobs and a surplus of available talent.

I am going by the conversations that I have had with my friends and cousins. I can look into it and find out what the name of the company she works for is.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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BAQ says on Aug 10, 2005, 13:12:

OK, listen up OK, those of us who LIVE HERE have been trying to explain to those of you who DO NOT live here that it will be VERY HARD for you to come down here and find a "Good job" that pays well. What else do you want us to say? Honestly folks, I don;t care if you have five different masters degrees, 2 Doctorates and a degree in Astro physics, your chances of coming to Colombia and finding a really good, well paying job is less than 5%. Now if you don't want to listen to us, fine, come down here and try but don;t get upset when your "New life plan" falls through. There is a reason a MAJORITY of us living here are doing so on RETIREMENT money.

PLEASE LISTEN to those of us living here, we are giving you accurate information. Re-Read the posts, DOCTORS here are making less than 2 million pesos a month. ENGINEERS are making less than 2 million pesos per month. At this point and time, Colombia is NOT a country you are going to make your fortune in, unless you plan on illegal activity.

I am not trying to be a smart ass, sarcastic or mean. I am sure you are well intentioned in what you think from what you have "Been told", however until you COME DOWN HERE AND LIVE, you honestly have no real grasp of the job market here.

I, along with others who live here and have posted on this board are well educated, many of us have a minimum of a Masters degree from a good University and all we are trying to do is give you good council about living here.

So, listen, don;t listen, that is up to you.

Best of luck, regardless of what you decide.

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Aug 10, 2005, 13:16:

What kind of illegal activity are you recommending? :pppppppppp

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rafeal says on Aug 10, 2005, 14:12:

Maybe they (Colombia) just do not need more engineers and doctors???

I know Colombia puts out many many dentists

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Aug 10, 2005, 14:26:

Rafael, As others have said, your chances are probably quite slim unless you make connections with a large international firm that already does business in Colombia AND you have a special skill set to offer. It should go without saying that your Spanish will need to be pretty decent, too. As for the 12-14% unemployment rate, yes, that is daunting, but the larger obstacle may be the 30-33% underemployment rate.



You might be better off building up a nest egg where you live now and then buy or start a business in Colombia at a later date.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 10, 2005, 14:28:

Let me tell you a story, Rafeal. I used to live in Missoula, Montana. I love Montana, I would love to live in Montana again. I have a B.S. in Computer Science and many years of experience in IT. Can I get a job in Montana making good money in the IT field? No, I can't because the economy of Montana is largely resource-based (mining, ranching, lumber and paper products) and not knowledge-based. Sure there are some IT jobs there but not very many and they don't tend to pay very well. Sad but true.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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DanielPaisa says on Aug 10, 2005, 14:46:

Salaries we can't say this is a rich country... in terms of salary, i have some sad statistics:

Unemployment rate: 12%
Minimum Wage: 381.500 COP/month (165 USD)
Subemployment rate (people working that make less than they should make or work on something they're overqualified for, like an engineer driving a cab, sometimes they make less than the minimun wage): 29.4%
Percentage of colombians inside of the labour market that make over 5 minimun wages (1.907.500 COP or 825 USD): 6%

In other words: almost 50% of colombians are either unemployed or working on something that pays less than they should. The other 40% makes less tha 1.900.000 COP a month, and only 6% make real good salaries... seein it this way, the fancy stores and cars you see are just for 6% of colombians; and even those engineers you say make 2 Million pesos a month are lucky, (i bet all of the ones you people know live inside a city). The crudest situation in colombia is lived outside of the cities...

Daniel, el Paisa

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Colombiche says on Aug 10, 2005, 17:48:

BAQ You are living in Colombia on retirement money. I am born, bred and raised 100% Colombian. I was uprooted in my early teens so I live and work up here, but I have tons of family living there who I actually do long distance business with. I am going by what is going on in their lives, by the conversations I have had with them. I am not saying all my relatives are making 8 million pesos a month, but I do have a cousin that is making that money. That is the truth. Could it be possible that all of my relatives are priviledged? Are my relatives all in the top 6 percentile?

I do know people that are having trouble finding work there. I just want to point out that there are also many people eeking out a living there, some of them doing okay for themselves. You guys freak out like there can't be anyone in Colombia making a good salary. Maybe it doesn't happen as often as it does in the "developed" world, but it happens. I don't know why everybody is so scandalized because I said somebody in Bogota is making 8 million pesos a month.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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rafeal says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:01:

Yes, I agree Colombiche.

Engineers are not a good example because not every business needs highly technical engineers. Even in the US it is feast or famine for engineers.

Montana is not a good example , because Bogota is completely diffrent environment in contrast.


As far as retiring, I am way to young, even the concept of retiring is not in my mind. I would never even consider being a lazy retiree, all the retire people I know are sad folks, or if younger are screwed up where their lives have little meaning.

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2retirensa says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:13:

rafeal This is what I love about Colombia- people work, stay active and happy until they can't go anymore. My future brother-in-law is at least 70 or 71 and sells fabric for suits. He goes all over Colombia by public transportation (buses) carrying a bag of samples bigger than a 50 lb sag of potatoes (I can lift 40lbs, and can't budge this sack of samples). He goes mostly to the smaller towns with limited access to merchandise, lugging this all the way. He is gone at least 5 days at a time.
He has more energy and life than any man I know here (US), including the young ones! No couch potatoes in my family!
Maureen

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BAQ says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:28:

Lazy? "Lazy retiree"? Now there is an oxymoron. Since I am sure you are a well traveled man, have an excellent handle on how life works in Colombia, have a very good education and great business sense, it's obvious you will have NO problems making very good money in Bogotá. So we would all like to know when you are moving down here to set up shop.

Now go ahead and explain to everyone, since you are the "Expert". What’s your business plan for moving here? How much capital will your initial investment require? How much of the market share are you going to get? What’s your profit margin going to be? Ahh, and HOW MUCH are you going to pay your employees?

We are all waiting with baited breath to hear from an "Expert".

Ahhh, No excuses now on WHY you aren’t coming down here. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, since you are "Way to young", if you don't have the investment capital to put up for a new business, I understand. So lets forgo for the moment you are going to start a business. You can still move here and find a "Good paying job" with no problem, right? Being an "Expert" on employment opportunities in Bogotá, it shouldn’t be any problem for you to find a job.

I am sure you will want to inform everyone as soon as you land that "Great job", we are eagerly awaiting the news of your good fortune and your arrival date.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:35:

One more question You started this thread asking questions because you don;t know anything about employment opportunities in Colombia so how did you go from being the "Student" to being the "Expert" in just TWO DAYS?

Semper Fidelis !

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TACTICAL says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:52:

Have to agree I have to agree with BAQ.

You asked for HELP in this forum by asking questions about salaries in Bogota and these people seem to have been very nice to you, trying to give you honest answers. So why are you spitting in their faces and making fun of that fact that they are retired. You seem to be VERY CHILDISH.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 10, 2005, 18:59:

You missed the entire point of my story. The point of my story wasn't that Montana = Bogota. They are as different as night and day. The point of my story is that someone can go someplace and they see big ranches, they see nice cars, they see some big houses - they can think in a very superficial way that a certain kind of occupation is readily available. It's clear to me from your posts that you have about as much idea of the reality in Colombia as you do about Montana. Hell, I'm dying for you to go down there and prove me wrong. In fact I would love to see you sell everything you own, renounce your citizenship and cast yourself like bread on the waters of Colombia. Go for it, dude! There's gotta be 50 guys like you on this site, all of them with "Get Rich" schemes focused on Colombia. I have news for you - you know what a Colombian's "Get Rich" scheme is - get his/her butt to the USA as fast as he/she can!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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rjstuff says on Aug 10, 2005, 20:00:

lazy retiree I am a retiree and I ressemble your remark! Ha Ha Ha! I travel more than I ever could before - you guys are tied down with 2 or 3 or very lucky ones have 4 weeks vacation a year. I spent 3 weeks in Colombia, 2 weeks in Arizona and 2 weeks in California - and off to Orlando in 10 days again! Plan to go to NY in September, Las Vegas and California in October - and decide about Nov/Dec later! Now put that in your pipe and smoke it! I belong to a writers group and write, I paint (oils) and I am having fun getting married to my Colombian fiancee shortly! Most young people have to struggle to make a living and then try and scrape up enough for retirement - I got lucky and made the right decisions to retire - EARLY and I AM having LOTS OF FUN! Another Beer over here please! jejeje

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rafeal says on Aug 11, 2005, 06:57:

The original question was in regards to salaries, not whether you can get a job. The people I know in Bogota already have good jobs, I jusy never asked what they made. It appears 3-4mil is the norm., though 5-7 is possible. I already have been offered a job, at a training level, for just under 2mil a month.


As I said before, "as far as retiring, I am way to young, even the concept of retiring is not in my mind. I would never even consider being a lazy retiree, all the retire people I know are sad folks"

Most of my friends, Colombian or American, are in their 20s or early 30s, who wants to hang around retirees.

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rjstuff says on Aug 11, 2005, 07:16:

Now you are a liar I just told you I am neither lazy nor sad! And since you know of one retiree thats not sad, you should not make that statement - it would be like me saying all the young workers in ... (put US/European/Colombian/your choice) log into internet porn sites all day and do nothing! ... And no more beer for rafael! jejeje .. Ok buy him one more ...

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quindioman says on Aug 11, 2005, 07:56:

high expectations I don't have any....funny how the momemt you stop demanding more of yourself the less headaches you experience in life.....i'm certainly in the minority here, i'm only waiting to finish my degree....and not for the fact that I can get a good job, I never saw the point of studying for conventional means, if being a full time student paid that would be my career choice.
I look forward to retiring in a crappy house in the most popular barrio in Armenia and enjoying THE SIMPLE THINGS IN LIFE.

I find it quite amusing that people force themselves to do things they are not happy doing in the name of improving their socioeconomic status, just so they can be satisfied with the material things that life affords them, like the maid that comes in once a week to clean up behind them....

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quindioman says on Aug 11, 2005, 07:59:

rafeal come to Colombia, see how it is for yourself....at least you would have experienced it first hand. If it's not for you, well at least you can say you have visited and lived in another country.

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caslug says on Aug 11, 2005, 09:10:

Viewpoint once told me.. in country of 42 MILLION People, ONLY 800,000 PAY INCOME TAX!!! What does that tell you? NOT alot of good paying jobs that you can afford to pay your tax. If you make 2000USD a month, i was told that was a like being a JUDGE!!! And who was making 2000USD a month, expat teacher teaching in rich kid school! Plus unless you have citizenship, how are you going to get a decent professional type job? Most COL companies will NOT help with work visa, heck they dont even help the majority of english teacher, and teaching english is a job that expat have and advantage over local.

Plus, unless you have a specialize skill they CANT find in COL, why would they hire you over a local. Accounting regulation are different country to country, just like law. Even business is different, there so much red tape in COL to do business. Even if you have good business skill, you still have to learn FROM SCRATCH how to navigate the local bueracracy and culture.

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rafeal says on Aug 11, 2005, 10:30:

You keep bringing issues that are not relevant to me, I only asked what the salaries are for a decent professional job, just to gve me a base line.

Also I already said , I have been to Bogota many times before, but to lives.

My skill set is IT/Communications, every big company needs my skill set, not every company needs an engineer, especially a chemical engineer.

Next time I go down, I'll check out the job in person, the odds are I will not take it, unless the 3-4 mil range can be confirmed.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2005, 11:01:

Come on, Rafeal, don't let us down by not taking the job. We're counting on you, dude.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Ratzfatz says on Aug 11, 2005, 13:29:

Salary May be it is the best way, if do you check www.elempleo.com. There is often the salary announced. Perhaps thats answered your questions...?

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BAQ says on Aug 11, 2005, 13:45:

AHHH Ahh, REALITY is FINALLY starting to creep through the door. As he writes "The original question was in regards to salaries, not whether you can get a job. The people I know in Bogota already have good jobs, I jusy never asked what they made. It appears 3-4mil is the norm., though 5-7 is possible. I already have been offered a job, at a training level, for just under 2mil a month".

Then he writes "My skill set is IT/Communications, every big company needs my skill set, not every company needs an engineer, especially a chemical engineer:"

REWIND to earlier posts: "On average, Engineers and Doctors are making TWO MILLION pesos a month".

THAT is what we have been trying to tell you, the "Norm" is about TWO MILLION pesos per month for a very well educated and professional person". So work your ass off, 10 hours per day 6 days a week (average work week here in Colombia) for $873.00 DOLLARS a month.

You can insult us for being "Retired", but given the option of your job opportunities in Bogota or my retirement, I'll sit back and enjoy my 6.5 million peso per month retirement. it makes me VERY SAD, hahahahaha

ANOTHER BEER OVER HERE PLEASE !

Semper Fidelis !

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juanalejo says on Aug 11, 2005, 14:38:

caslug 800.000 are not the ones that pay income tax, 800.000 are the ones that file an income tax paperwork. Which means that 800.000 are the ones that earn more than 80.000.000 a year. Any body who earns more than 1.800.000 pays tax, the difference is those people have there taxes retained every month with there salaries. Since the average household is still at 5, it also means that 4.000.000 Colombians live in families of that income, which is the 10% that is considered upperclass.

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rafeal says on Aug 11, 2005, 15:07:

I do not know what you are talking about BAQ, except from reading your last post, most can see what I am talking when it comes to retirees, you seem to be a good example of what I mean.

I already make 14mil , 10mil take home her in the US. But working a few years in Colombia 2-3 years would be very interesting, I have absolutely no interest or motivation in retiring.

And the people I do know in Bogota, make more then the 2 mil a month you quoted, and I myself was already offered almost 2mil in a trainee position, 5 days a week job.
So obviously we come from backgrounds, my opinion of Bogota is upbeat and I see a lot of growth potential in Bogota, not the grim view that so many here have. It would be satisfing help bringing new knowledge and improving systems for what company I work for in Bogota, help raising Bogota to a new level.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2005, 15:13:

That's the spirit, Rafeal. Don't let a bunch of sabelotodo internet posters stop you. Bogota needs you, man, to get to the next level. Are you going to wear a Superman costume under your suit, Clark?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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BAQ says on Aug 11, 2005, 15:21:

TROLL You are nothing but a TROLL.

Semper Fidelis !

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BAQ says on Aug 11, 2005, 15:21:

TROLLING Cowboy, don;t worry, he has been a member for THREE DAYS. He is TROLLING. According to him, he is going to leave a $6100.00 a month job in the States so he can come to Bogota and make between $825.00 and $1400.00 a month. WOW, what a financial genius !!!!

Semper Fidelis !

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rafeal says on Aug 11, 2005, 16:20:

You people certainly sound like the retirees from US.

Like I said before;
But working a few years in Colombia 2-3 years would be very interesting, I have absolutely no interest or motivation in retiring.
I am 29, and prefer the age group early 20s to 30s working.

Well I am not going to Bogota for the money, but for my friends and for new friends and the life, I also have traveled before elsewhere.
Recently worked on a SAP installation, but unfortunately in Europe, as I found I prefer the Americas.

One of my best Bogota friend (28 old also) runs an import business, imports good from China (small household kitchen items) to Colombia. He lives in Bogota and also Miami.



I have never had a problem finding a position:
Develop applications using Java, Perl, JSP, XML, XSL
Design, write, and maintain object-to-relational software layer
and database schemas
Work with business users to gather requirements and organize
requirements into development tasks
Write design specifications, programming specifications, and
documentation
Prioritize and resolve maintenance issues and provide operational
support for the user of business systems , SAP, etc...


I also end this post, because I now have a better idea of the salaries. But still it appears to be a very individual thing.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2005, 16:30:

I do work which is very very similar to what you describe. I usually lead teams of web developers creating applications for one of the largest financial services companies in the US. It would never occur to me to do the same kind of work in Colombia. I just don't see the demand and IT professionals are a dime a dozen there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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rafeal says on Aug 11, 2005, 16:46:

I will know more details in a month, if it is no good after a year, I just leave back to the US, as part of the training program I will already be required to go back and forth, how often I do not know.

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juanalejo says on Aug 11, 2005, 17:14:

rafeal Do not worry just ignore these guys, there job is to justify why them or their families would never be happy if they lived in Colombia, so at any cost they will argue that nobody can ever be happy in Colombia, and if somebody is, it is because they lie out of envy, they were born into the elite and inherited all the money or are crooked bunch. What a nice view of their "second" country. By the way once you have the details of the job you will be doing let me know I will let you know what is going average rate for your position, I have all the studies that are published on jobs and payments in Colombia in my office. And by the way my secretary is a biligual 10 years experienced lady and we pay her 2.000.000, I do not think anybody with her qualifications would make less. I know a lady who is the secretary for the president of a Nestle and she is a 4.000.000 pesos with 15 years experience. So do not worry the problem in Colombia is something very different that most people here are able to understand, just hope the country can grow and offer the same some can have to many more. But that will only be achieved with positive people like you. Do not worry you will find many like you once you live here, most of the other ones have already left the country and are sitting daily sobbing on this site.

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utopiacowboy says on Aug 11, 2005, 17:34:

Just because I don't see these opportunities doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there or that I am badmouthing the place. I love Montana but I am a realist about it. I just don't see any opportunities to do there the kind of work I can do here for similar money. Does that mean I'm lying about Montana or I am tearing it down? No, one day I'll go back.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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BAQ says on Aug 11, 2005, 17:48:

Juanalejo I am not bad mouthing Colombia, My family and I live here and I love it. All we were doing was trying to explain to him that if he was going to move to Bogota, he should expect a salary range of about 2-3 million pesos and that the idea of coming here with "Special Skills" would in all probability not make that much of a difference.

The Troll was the one who started bad mouthing and insulting people.

Semper Fidelis !

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juanalejo says on Aug 11, 2005, 17:58:

Salaries are all according to costs. Like in all the world salaries are all according to costs, and just like in Colombia the Income per Capita is around 2200 USD the Purchasing Power Parity is around 6600 hence a salary of 2.300.000 or 1000 USD is similar to that of 3.000 USD in the USA. And according to the International Geographical Salary Differentials and the Mercer study on salaries, the salaries earned by an executive in Colombia are relatively quite high to those earned by executives in many parts of the world and are some of the highest in Latinamerica. So if your idea is to compare directly your are not doing the right job, because in that sense somebody from Idaho would have a much lower lifestyle that an average person in London or New York, just because they would probably make much less money.

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rjstuff says on Aug 12, 2005, 07:56:

Get thee to a nunnery quick! How do you say 'Bogota job market' in Shakespeareneese? I am buying the next three rounds for BAQ and any other retirees! My Turn! MY TURN! jajajaja

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Mr. Hollywood says on Aug 12, 2005, 15:44:

Piping in I'm going to pipe in and 2nd what Utopia and, I think, BAQ said about the underemployment situation here. It's definately NOT a function of there being a demand but no educated/qualified people to fill jobs. I don't think I've ever seen a country with such a surplus of really well educated and qualified people. So advise anyone clinging to the notion that they're going to come down here and show those Colombians how to kick some ass to let go of that thought.

Personally, I think there are three reasonable paths for an expat here to take. Be employed as an expat by a multinational or a foreign government. Be retired or wealthy from elsewhere and stretching your income by living here. Be extremely good at starting your own business and do that here. Getting a traditional "job" here as a foreigner isn't a very real or lucrative option.

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Rubiazo says on Aug 12, 2005, 23:26:

some Colombians making good money: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16245835-23109,00.html

:pppp

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