Safety in Medellin.....

Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 5, 2004, 16:31:

utopiacowboy says on Nov 5, 2004, 18:02:

Yes, you are going to stick out a bit - you better get used to it. It's not a bad thing - they just don't see many gringoes there. In fact, you will probably get quite a bit of interest from the women because of it. Parts of Medellin are extremely dangerous - my wife lived in Medellin for 25 years and there were many areas of the city she had never set foot in. On the other hand there are many areas that are safe, mainly the upscale areas like El Poblado, Laureles, Belen etc. Your best bet is to have someone you can trust as a guide or stick to these areas.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Peter (Moderator) (Trustee board) (Dev team) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 5, 2004, 18:25:

Gator says on Nov 5, 2004, 18:46:

No real problems, for one who uses his/her head Poblado and Las Palmas and surrounding area are probably the safest. Central (downtown) O.K. until say 8/9 at night, across the river from Central is Estadio, Laureles, and Castilla. The Metro station Station Estadio stops here. Stay out of the Barrios Populares. Do NOT go into the barrios up on the sides of the mountains period. Guayaquil is very dangerous.

In general, Medellin. IMHO, is a safe city bus just like a large US city use you head. Ask local advice before venturing out. It's a great city

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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brunito says on Nov 5, 2004, 18:58:

Sabaneta is a good bario also My friends livre in that sector and everytime I've been to Medellin, I've always felt welcome no matter where I went. I've been told by my friends not to fool around much in Centro though but I always wonder if they're playing a broma on me...

You should visit Campe Paisan (do I remember correctly?) wich is really nice and gives you a spectacular night view of Medellin. If you get out of Medellin and go into the mountain ranges, go see Piedra de Peñol and also go to the Jericho pueblo region. Both are 2-3 hours car rides...

Awesome...

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bickerss says on Nov 6, 2004, 08:17:

Go, its fine if u stay in the good areas like any city. As mentioned Pblado is excellent!

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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British Paisa says on Nov 6, 2004, 10:50:

Nothing to worry about!... Medellin is really safe, don't be afraid to go downtown either, it will be a good experience, make sure you go with someone who knows where they are going first (so as not to get lost) and don't wear and flashy jewellery as it isn't needed and take your camera, just not around your neck!... there is a nice arts & crafts fair in the Plaza de Bolivar on the lst sunday of every month, or maybe its the first (you will hace to check) and if you are in to architecture etc, Prado & Buenos Aires are nice... To make it short I would go anywhere downtown during the day, even Guayaquil!... as it is so busy, I mean packed, that nothing can really happen as long as you keep your wits about you, don't get me wrong it isn't the place to be relaxed in, just don't start shouting in English... you say you will stand out, so I imagine you are albino or something similar!... you will probably fit in and they won't realize you are a foreigner until you open your mouth or because you wear sovcks with your chanclas!...
Don't worry about it, you probably won't find many foreigners unless you are staying at a hotel, because as you should do they won't be wearing big signs... any way the worst that could possibly happen is that you get mugged...
Have a nice time... I am sure you will

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Hunter says on Nov 6, 2004, 14:16:

Medellin safety Many of the other people have summed it up.

Centro is not really a problem in the daytime, in the nights you should stick to where there are a lot of people, generally where the discos are.

Envigado is safe and Sabaneta as well as El Poblado and Laureles, plus many other barios.

I have lived here for 2 years, I stand out a mile with my fair hair and Germanic looks, although I am English, touch wood, never had a problem yet here.

Hunter

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Andy C says on Nov 6, 2004, 15:21:

Safety Good to see everyone is in agreement here. Medellin is a modern, vibrant city, and yeah, sure there are dodgy places, but on the whole, taking the advice above, you will be fine.

I was in Medellin a few weeks ago, and i actually noticed there seems to be a lot more displaced people living homeless in the centre than a year ago...not that this makes it any worse, but there were a lot more people begging etc than when i was last there.

In general the security situation in Colombia is much improved. The roads are certainly much safer than they used to be. I've been in Colombia for over a year now, and recently have been driving to many different places, incldung national parks etc, which is something i wouldn´t have felt safe doing last year.....

Enjoy it!

Andy

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mranderson says on Nov 6, 2004, 18:35:

medellin is safe i have been in medellin for a few days now. I am american with blue eyes and yes I stick out like a soar thumb. I do not speak any spanish. I have been out all over the city with my digital camera taking pictures just like a tourist everywhere I go. I went to the discotheque mangos friday night and stayed out till about 2 am drinking cervesa and dancing. The people here I think are freindly and I have not felt threatened at all. But I also have a friend or 2 with me at all times that is bilingual and I think that makes a huge difference. Medellin is safe.

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dwmte says on Dec 5, 2004, 09:06:

medellin, dangerous? who said that....... that all depends who you are, how you act and where you go. not to mention who you go with.

in many respects, it's not dangerous, it's deadly. now don't take that as a suggestion 'against' coming. hardly. being a resident of more than 4 1/2 years i early on learned the ropes of the what's and what nots to do. because to act contrary to common sense and caution can be deadly.

areas like el poblado, most of laureles, most of envigado, sabaneta, las palmas, a small--very small--part of belen are all ok. places like triste, guayaquil, and especially nikitau, lower prado and worst of all in the north, east bello are best avoided even with reliable friends. especially east bello...well known as the universitario de los sicarios. in my first year in colombia, 1989, there was a young boy, a teenager, who made arts and crafts and sold them in the street in laureles. i bought from him a number of times and when i was no longer interested in his chechiri (sp)but still interested in the welfare of the lad, i commissioned him to make a copy of the space shuttle 'colombia'. i spent a lot of money on the kid.

as a result of my involvement with the boy, he invited me to his home in bello....at that time i knew nothing of bello, nor it's reputation. the following sunday, i went to bello, the taxi driver dropped me off by the highway, telling me to be careful, this was definately not an area for foreigners, then he left after i told him i was being met by someone.

the young boy arrived in a few minutes and we began a long, arduous walk up the hill, towards the east. it's very steep there and all the roads are dirt. the area was clearly poor and i was alarmed at how the residents eyed me and as we passed homes, people came out and stared. we finally arrived at his house in a clearly poor neighborhood and upon entering, i met his family. the surprise, was this was a family of sicarios--the father, older brother and some relatives--all with guns and confronting me with probably one of the scariest moments of my life. to my surprise, i was greeted with hugs and thanks from all, for what they had heard about me from their son. it was clear that they were surprised that a foreigner would give a crap about a street boy, much less, 'take him under his wing.'

well we ate dinner, sat and drank, got high and later in the day, i returned to medellin. whew!, i thought to myself, did that really happen. for years i've thought about that and thought how it could have had a totally different outcome.

there's truth that goodness is repaid by goodness...even in extreme situations.

back to medellin. never, even in the best areas, poblado, las palmas etc, act stupid or foolish. always conduct yourself wisely and use common sense at all times. always be alert. it is a poor nation and a poor city and the destitute, are desperate. they will do anything to try and alleviate their situation. it is that very desperation which promotes the gravity of crimes committed. you can hire a 'contract', get someone 'whacked' for between $25.00 and $50.00 us.

that makes life pretty cheap. so don't hesitate for a minute to go and experience the greatest city i know and love. there's nothing like it anywhere. at least not in my vast travels. just bare in mind that if you are an explorer and want to journey into the unknown go with someone whom you can really trust and stay with them. don't act wise-ass, stupid or dumb, as any of these can easily get you dead.

travelling around the countryside especially out to the east, toward the airport is infinitely safer than barrio cruisin and much more rewarding. visit el retiro, marinilla (daytime), llano grande, rio negro, guarney, san antonio. all of these will open the beauty and wonder of colombia to you like medellin, or for that matter, any city, never will.

going with and eye to more than bars, dope, chicks and getting laid, will give colombia the chance to reveal her magnificent, lovely self.

you'll discover why so many who have gone and returned all say, "boy do i love colombia."

take the advise of posters like hunter who know whereof they speak and you'll have a life changing experience. visit sabaneta, it's at the south end of medellin/envigado. there you'll get a taste of pueblo life close in to medellin. don't confuse a visit to pueblito paisa with a visit to a pueblo.

all the best, kiss the ground for me. we'll be returning this coming year. we have a home in envigado, but wont live there. it's boring, but we have family there.

peace,

dwm

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ericthepro007 says on Dec 5, 2004, 11:03:

Don't worry go I stayed right downtown in the Hotel Nutibara right off Botero Plaza. It's right in the heart of the city and you can people watch right from the hotel retuarant right into the street. It's enclosed by a iron gate so nobody approaches you. If your with a woman be careful as your eyes will wander at the petty woman. From there we traveled to all the city sites with no problem in the day. We were usually in by night as she did not feel comfortable about traveling at night. I definatly stood out as I wore shorts all the time. Not too many people wear shorts there. The weathder is perfect not too hot not cold at all. The hotel was about $40-455 US dollars a night and included breakfast. It is safe and secure with a doorman and elevator host so nobody gets to the rooms unwanted. They alos have English speaking desk clerks. From my understanding this area is typical colombian people, avergae folks. If you want a upperclass area try the Poblado but it will be more expensive. Like any large metropolitan city just don't converse with undesirable people. For the most part with the exception os street beggers most people mind their won business. Everybody I met was very friendly.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 5, 2004, 14:50:

He's not the only one who thinks you're crazy. One time I was in El Centro and a guy's t-shirt accidentally came up exposing a gun stuck in his waistband. And this was in the middle of the day. We always make sure not to wear any watches or jewelry there.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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BxUnika says on Dec 5, 2004, 20:09:

Another New Yorker Mitch, where in the Bronx are you from? I actually was trying to get someone to make a comparison between the Bronx and Cali. I live in Washington Hts. and moved here from the Bronx, so when people say "bad" it is very relative to me.

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 20:55:

Mitch.. "in Colombia it would be more like when something goes bad it goes very bad"..

I agree, because the level of poverty & desperation in COL is so much more than the states, that you don't know what something can escalate too. In the US, at least we can read the situatoin much better, plus the police is a MAJOR deterrent in the states. MOST(not all) people are very afraid of getting in trouble w/ the law.

WHile in COL, the Police is a lot less efficent and competent. Lots more crime in COL goes unsolve or unpunish than in the US. No suprise there.

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Lionheart says on Dec 6, 2004, 21:08:

caslug, let me reword your post "in Eastern Europe it would be more like when something goes bad it goes very bad"..

"I agree, because the level of poverty & desperation in Eastern Europe is so much more than the states, that you don't know what something can escalate too. In the US, at least we can read the situatoin much better, plus the police is a MAJOR deterrent in the states. MOST(not all) people are very afraid of getting in trouble w/ the law.

While in Eastern Europe, the Police is a lot less efficent and competent. Lots more crime in Eastern Europe goes unsolved or unpunished than in the US. No suprise there."

Plus ... compare the Russian Mafia (ex-KGB) with Colombia, they are much more nasty and efficient. Eastern Europe is dirty and run down - Colombia is beautiful.

The US media doesn't report much about Eastern Europe because it is far away, but Europe reports a lot more about Eastern Europe than Colombia. My take on it ... enjoy beauty over ugly.

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 21:17:

I agree lionheart.. Any developing country that has poverty and a weaken justice system, you'll have problems. However, Eastern europe only has the mafia to content w/ while COL has Drug Cartel AND FARC to fight. Brazil has a worse problem than COL, but this is not a brazilian board.

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BxUnika says on Dec 6, 2004, 21:22:

Mitch "BxUnika, i'm from Pelham Parkway off of Eastchester rd. the quiet part of the Bronx :)"

I lived in a bit rougher of an area. I lived near Fordham University off of Webster Ave. Small world, isn't it? ; )

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Lionheart says on Dec 6, 2004, 21:48:

caslug I don't know if the Columbian multiple fights are worse.

The Russian mafia has taken over control of drugs, prostitution, and organized crime in Europe with a united trained force of professionals. The Italien mafia is in hiding in Sicily or moved to the USA.

Imagine FARC and drug cartells teaming up with professional management .... a picture best not thought ...

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 22:08:

Lion.. Mitch was comparing crime issues in COL w/ the US, because that is his/mine frame of reference(we lived in the US, but have travel to COL).

Comparing which country has it worse (COL or Eastern europe) problems is all academic anyway. I admit, it would make an interest topic for discussion, "is having organize crime 'better' than having unorganize crime in respect to a foreign tourist?", but since this board is about COL, we'll leave that discussion for another board.

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Lionheart says on Dec 6, 2004, 22:24:

no misunderstanding I am not comparing apples with oranges now ...

It bugs me all the time how Colombia is shown as a dangerous country in the media. Yes there are dangers, but elsewhere too ... I just wish we had a more common-sense approach for the US ... I don't know how to achieve it.

It is so much like my grandmother's words when I visited her in Tacoma, WA 20 years ago: "Don't drive down K Street, you will get robbed and shot". Just because poor people live there ...

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 22:54:

COL is more dangerous... to a most foreigner than their own country, because it's a not our home town/country, we don't know all the ins&outs so of course we have to take extra precaution that locals maynot worry about. For example, we don't automatic know what area is safe and what area isn't. My take on the safety issue in col is this:

IF you stay in the areas that you are told stay in(by locals) then you're just a safe as the safest area in your country. HOWEVER, if you stray into an area that you shouldn't be in (ie, strata 2 area at night) then you run a higher chance of something bad happen to you. But even if nothing happens, it doesn't mean it was a good idea to wander into a bad area. No sense in pushing your luck.

I think crime is all about the law averages. Certain area have a higher "average chance" of something bad happen is higher than other area. There's no denying that strata 5 or 6 is "safer" on the "average" than strata 2 or 3.

Hey, I've been in some seedy areas in the states and nothing to me, while one day i working in one of the safest cities in world Manhattan, and some crazy zeolots crash two planes into two buildings that were 30 blocks from where i was. But that doesn't mean that Manhattan is more dangerous than some ghetto's i have been in.

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Lionheart says on Dec 6, 2004, 23:22:

seedy areas I missed the right turn at the right intersection twice while visiting LA ... I did not stop at red lights and I did not drive slow until I was out of those areas.

stratas - I keep reading about them, I have a hunch what they mean - could somebody give me a definition in a nutshell ... and how do they relate to the girls where they come from. It reminds me a lot of India, where each caste has their own ghetto. So as foreigner I belong in strata 6 even as a backpacking hippie? Visiting a girl in strata 1 is suicide, even if I can't find her cardboard box?

(I am refering to a tragedy in Brazil several weeks ago --- a low class community got washed away in their cardboard boxes during heavy rain, over 50 people drowned.)

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 23:43:

Strata... I took some foto of strata 3 & 4 to show my friends, if you want, give me your email I'll send them to you. Here's my observation via taxi rides & walking thru various stratas.

Strata 6 - Think midtown manhanttan, Malibu or beverly hills, very safe to walk around day or night. North BOG close to the mountains

Strata 5 - Think nice, upper middle class, very safe to walk around day at night it's also pretty safe. Zona Rosa in BOG. Comparison in the US would be upper west side NYC or Irvine, CA.

Strata 4 - Think middle to upper middle class, Day no problem, nights probably OK, but take a taxi to be safe. Many areas of BOG are like this, including the northwest zones. In the US these homes look like lower middle class to middle class homes/condo.

Strata 3 - Think Lower middle class to middle class, day generally no problem, but at nights take taxis to and from places, just to be on the safe side. Think ghetto housing in any city in the US(ie, downtown LA, Chinatown in SF or LA).

Didn't push my luck to explore strata 1 or 2, because there was simply no reason to. Most of the tourist sites or places you will normally go are not in those areas.

Another funny thing, in strata 5 & 6 (some 4) there's street lights, but strata 3 or below, no street light. I think that one of the big reason it's sometimes not safe. I dropped off an amiga at her house in strata 4 area at 11pm and the taxi was going thru her neigbhorhood, and it was PITCH black! Couple of days later, I took a taxi back to her house for lunch and saw the neighborhood in the day, and it was totally OK. Night & Day. I saw 1 bd room apt renting for $250-300 USD in a strata 5 area. So as a foreigner, I don't think it's expensive for you to live in a safe area. No need to live in Strata 6 unless you have the big bucks.

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caslug says on Dec 6, 2004, 23:53:

Poverty.. Once you see some strata 3 or below, you'll understand the implication of poverty in COL(in relation to the US). I read several books on colombia(killing Pablo & history of Cocaine) and understand now, how life is so cheap, you can have someone wacked(ie. killed) in COL for under $300 USD. Extreme poverty is why many people go into crime or other morally questionable work in COL(& other latin countries). As tourist, we don't really think to much about this because we're not general confront by it(other than occasion beggers), but it's there.

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Lionheart says on Dec 7, 2004, 00:20:

hmmm In the US I had the experience of being homeless for 2 weeks, having to sleep at a Salvation Army center, even tho I earned over $70,000 before and after that experience. I met ppl who would do a kill for $1000 etc. Texas is infested with homeless, because it is warm most of the time. Sigh .. we can go one forever proving our points.

Thank you very much for the Strata details .. you confirmed my assumptions. Do Strata maps exist for the cities? Since I will be moving to Cali I am most interested in that map for now.

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 7, 2004, 08:23:

Where are you in Texas, Lionheart? We rarely see homeless people or beggars in San Antonio - unlike Seattle and Vancouver where they are everywhere!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 7, 2004, 08:46:

it's a misunderstanding to refer strata system in Colombian cities as castes or ghettos. The sratification (layering)is applied to the amount of money people have to pay for their electricity, water, garbage collection etc. public services. It's only fair (in my opinion) that people who live in expensive homes and make lots of money should pay more and thus subsidize plumbing, garbage collection and electricity in poorer areas.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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mad_lion says on Dec 7, 2004, 09:15:

what is barrio Belen... or something liek that in Medellin like? My "friend" says that is where she lives in Medellin.

She told me it is where the "old" airport used to be...anyone know about teh safety issue there? What's it like there? What stratus is it? She said that it was 5 minutes from Poblado. I trust that makes it fairly safe?

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caslug says on Dec 7, 2004, 09:42:

strata questions... If you want to know the strata of a particular area, ask taxi drivers as you drive thru, I found this the best way. I think asking your friend or GF what strata she lives in is rude, just like someone asking you how much you make. So taxi drivers are the best. I usually ask couple of them about the same area. I also asked them is this area safe during day and night? That's how I found that some areas are OK during the day, but not at night.

Desi, I wasn't refering to ALL strata as ghettos, I use ghetto is show what the same area in the US is like visually, NOT based on people. House/apt in a US urban ghetto is "looks" very much like many strata 3 areas in BOG and some strata 4. People wise, strata 1 or 2 probably represent the "kind" of poor, disenfranchise group that makes up a US Ghetto.

I understand that COL has a progressive pricing policy for public utility. Which is different than US, here everyone pays the same for utilites in your city or state. If you live in a million house or a poor house, your rate is the same. Of course you might be using more in a million dollar house so you pay more, BUT your rates are same.

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ShazCas says on Dec 7, 2004, 11:09:

Strata 3 is fine I was writing this big long post about stratas and when I pressed the post comment button it wouldn't post and I lost the whole thing! :-( I know Lionheart had some questions about them, but now I'm too tired to write it all again! It was just about how if a building is seen as of historical or architectural value, it's strat 1 or 2. Maybe I'll be back later to try again!!

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 7, 2004, 12:06:

Mad_lion, Belen is a very large area in Medellin made up of different barrios. Some of it is not too good and some of it is very nice - it depends where you are. My wife's apartment is in a Strata 4 area called Miravalle near Laureles on Carrera 78A. The old airport in Medellin is still in operation (Herrera) but only used for some domestic flights. We always try to fly out of there because it is a short cab ride from my wife's place. I really like the area where my wife lives. It is close to the big old square in front of the big church, Nuestra Senora de Belen. Lots of shops and activity. I would say it is pretty safe.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Lionheart says on Dec 7, 2004, 12:18:

Utopia I saw many homeless in Houston (4 years ago), Austin (3 years ago) and Dallas (1 year ago). I am not living in Texas now, but if I were to move back it would be to Austin or San Antonio.

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Lionheart says on Dec 7, 2004, 12:32:

ShazCas Thank you for your effort, please try again. I have made it a regular procedure to make a copy of every post before I hit the button, I have losts too many posts because of the time out.

I am still not fully clear what stratas and barrios are. In many threads I read it as a measurement how people get judged. Ok, it relates to their income and/or classification of the house they live in. But I still see it as a classification of the people themselves. Like the classification of CaliPro's girls, their general appearance identifies the strata they live in, as clearly stated in that infamous thread.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Dec 7, 2004, 12:49:

no, lionheart The stratas are, just as I said, a progressive classification of the homes used as a base for payment for public utilities. The strata is based on taxation value of the house. People can never be classified by the same measure. However, for anybody who has lived a certain amount of time amongst the Colombians, maybe even gone "over the wall" (like myself), it's not that hard to make an educated guess on the socioeconomic level of a person based on his/her appearance, clothes, occupation, habits and above all, voice and usage of the language. These appreciations cannot ever be more than just guesses, until you actually meet the person. This applies to both men and women.
For anybody raised up or having lived most of his/her life in a society where class differences barely exist it may sound ugly and strange. Well, it's not good, of course. I wish all Colombians, even the ones who are desperately poor could have access to higher education, better health and dental care, healthier nutrition and better quality housing. These are the things that would blur the picture of this class society and would appear more appealing to us. This is, however, not the case.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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caslug says on Dec 7, 2004, 13:02:

Lion.. I agree that using strata to judge a person w/o ever meeting or knowing is a little elitist. Personally I use the strata to judge "relative safety" of an area, not individuals from that area. There is more crime in south central LA than beverly hills, BUT that DOESNT make decent, law-abiding folks, living in s. central less of a person than someone from Beverly Hills.

If you plan to move to Cali, I recommend you get a hotel for couple of weeks and hire a taxi to drive your around the different areas of Cali during the day then night. Ask the locals in those areas and outside of them, "is this area safe?". You'll get a feeling of what area you would be comfortable living in.

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Lionheart says on Dec 7, 2004, 13:03:

Thanks for the clarification Desi I grew up in Germany, almost classless for Germans, but with immigrants being put into classes.

I sense a classification in the US according to which school/college you go, and also in which part of the city you live in. I move a lot because of my job and hear how realtors point out the various locations where to live or not.

I hope other posters read your post, because I have seen it used as a classification for people.

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caslug says on Dec 7, 2004, 13:20:

Desi' right.. "it's not that hard to make an educated guess on the socioeconomic level of a person based on his/her appearance, clothes, occupation, habits and above all, voice and usage of the language." - Desi

I suspect it's because upward mobility via education and work opportunity is a lot less in COL than USA(or Europe). For example, here in California, there's no way they can tell by how your dress, look, or even what car you drive, what kinda of person you are(rich/poor, cultured/uncouth, educated/not, etc.,). Because so many people, rich/famous/educated, etc., dress down so much. One negative sterotype about gringos tourist in COL is that we tend to dress "sloppy", or at least compare to the locals.

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pablorojas says on Dec 7, 2004, 14:50:

come on.... In response to anyone saying that the Bronx could possibly be more dangerous than Medellin:

I love Medellin probably more than any other city, but at the moment, I can't go because my family has been threatened with weapons by members of several small organized crime organizations. I suggest that anyone who goes to Medellin does not expect to find a hostile city, actually the exact opposite but keep in mind that:

Medellin has been consistently among the top 2 or 3 most dangerous cities on earth for the past 20 years, the other top cities being at war like Beirut in Lebanon or Baghdad. A murder rate hovering between 450 and 290 murders per 100,000 inhabitants is give or take 15-24 times that of Brooklyn, and 3 to 6 times that of Compton in the early 90s. Keep in mind that pertains to all of Medellin, including "good" neighborhoods.

Simply because a person from the Bronx went to Medellin and did not get killed within a week says nothing about overall safety. People from Medellin MOVE to the Bronx and Queens for money and safety. I know many people who have been murdered in Colombia and, though I have lived half my life in Washington, D.C., the most dangerous city in the US, I have heard of no murders, attempted murders, and maybe just one or two muggings from my friends in D.C.

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Hunter says on Dec 7, 2004, 14:57:

Stratas Desideria, comments on what Stratas are based is correct, also the guide to how dangerouse an area is, to what strata it is, is a very rough guide.

I live in a strata 3 area, but in no way it classed as a dangerouse day or night.

Also is far prettier than most higher strata areas.

Hunter

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Lionheart says on Dec 7, 2004, 15:10:

pablo when you mention threats to friends and family, are you talking about protection money, which used to be common for the mafia and china towns?

is this common in most of Colombia? I recall reading hints like this in other threads, but I can't remember where. is it common for a small business owner to pay for protection?

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pablorojas says on Dec 7, 2004, 16:06:

lionheart I am really sorry but I prefer not to tell the details of my situation for all imaginable reasons, but I can tell you that, though people say it is less so nowadays, Colombians, if they can afford it, can, out of frustration take matters into their own hands. So while I cannot give you a historical comparison of organized crime worldwide I can tell you this:

I have known people and have heard of many instances in which Colombians have bought protection or otherwise have ordered killings because the police is known for either showing indifference or being corrupt. When the police does not provide protection and justice, people tend to have their own personal police to protect their interests, and this usually comes in the form of bodyguards or other forms of protection. Corruption has come down because of decent mayors in many cities, but I want to make it clear for any foreigner planning to go to Medellin that:

One should not underestimate the openness, hospitality, and friendliness of Colombians. This makes Colombia one of the most beloved countries in the world by those who have actually visited.

One should not underestimate the danger of being in Colombia. Unless you have lived in Colombia, Africa, Haiti, or a warzone, the precautions you should take are probably completely unclear to you. So its easy for a foreginer, enchanted by the Colombian people, to fall into a trap. You should be with a Colombian for the first week at least, to develop the instinct that Colombians unfortunately have had to develop over the past decades. Do not be fooled to think that because you have eaten at a restaurant in Spanish Harlem or because you have a cousin in Compton you are free to roam Medellin or other large cities.

Enjoy Medellin and the rest of Colombia, everyone, and bring back pictures to cure my nostalgia.

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pablorojas says on Dec 7, 2004, 16:06:

lionheart I am really sorry but I prefer not to tell the details of my situation for all imaginable reasons, but I can tell you that, though people say it is less so nowadays, Colombians, if they can afford it, can, out of frustration take matters into their own hands. So while I cannot give you a historical comparison of organized crime worldwide I can tell you this:

I have known people and have heard of many instances in which Colombians have bought protection or otherwise have ordered killings because the police is known for either showing indifference or being corrupt. When the police does not provide protection and justice, people tend to have their own personal police to protect their interests, and this usually comes in the form of bodyguards or other forms of protection. Corruption has come down because of decent mayors in many cities, but I want to make it clear for any foreigner planning to go to Medellin that:

One should not underestimate the openness, hospitality, and friendliness of Colombians. This makes Colombia one of the most beloved countries in the world by those who have actually visited.

One should not underestimate the danger of being in Colombia. Unless you have lived in Colombia, Africa, Haiti, or a warzone, the precautions you should take are probably completely unclear to you. So its easy for a foreginer, enchanted by the Colombian people, to fall into a trap. You should be with a Colombian for the first week at least, to develop the instinct that Colombians unfortunately have had to develop over the past decades. Do not be fooled to think that because you have eaten at a restaurant in Spanish Harlem or because you have a cousin in Compton you are free to roam Medellin or other large cities.

Enjoy Medellin and the rest of Colombia, everyone, and bring back pictures to cure my nostalgia.

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dwmte says on Dec 7, 2004, 17:17:

pablo rojas nice post. and accurate as it should be.

i'm often taken by some of the more mild mannered posts which leave a feeling of non chalance (sp) and casualness for the reader.

as my post above points out, loving colombia is easy because 'she' is who she is. however, to treat moving about in el campo and in the cities--medellin specifically--with anything other than an attitude of protective seriousness can clearly be detrimental to one's health.

i've known and seen just about everything. the wonderful and lovely to murders right in front of me.

to those interested, go to colombia, discover her, embrace her and you will discover why she has had such a memorable effect on nearly everyone who has visited. also, until you have developed reliable 'ships legs', be cautiious. it is not a walk in the park.

happy travels to all.

dwm

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mark says on Dec 8, 2004, 00:21:

Do the same thing if you would visit Los angeles, chicago,detroit or any dense populated area in the US..


do your homework, know where you go, they have a cool transportation system, heavely guarded.

Try to decide where you want to go and do your homework. Colombia is colombia.. You'll love it complete with all the adreline for first time visitor.

Farc does have cells in medellin as well bogota and the rest of colombia.

the good news however is that colombia sent a big honcho drug lord to the states, so the FARC may be chillin for a while. but one never knows .

ok.. now if you a bit confused...

just do it...

one thing about cabs.... always.. always ask how much they will charge to take you from one place to another..

also if your in a up-scale hotel .. dont use there taxis.. they typically charge a lot more..

you'll feel a lot safer than in baltimore or DC.

generally people are cool, but keep in mind high un-employment in dense areas defines " the opportunistic criminal" , if you know a bit how to profile them they will stick out like a sore thumbs.

be alert & enjoy the music , flavor, life unlike any..

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 8, 2004, 08:23:

Nice dose of reality, Pablorojas. It is far more dangerous than any American city a normal traveler has ever been to. I would like to retire to Colombia but I would be far more likely to retire to Monteria than Medellin. It's just too damm dangerous.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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