Safety in Bogota

BxUnika says on Jan 17, 2007, 21:40:

Well... I now live in Bogota. I am a 5'8, blonde, blue-eyed White female, to better describe myself. I arrived here a week ago after not being here since April. I live in a strata 3/4 more or less middle-class area. I walk around at night alone until 10 or 11 on a daily basis. I have ended up in less than desirable areas after dark but nothing that really scared me. Then again, I used to live in the Bronx, NYC.

I think in some instances people are paranoid and overly cautious, especially when giving advice to a foreigner. There are certain places that are basically safe all times of day, some during the day, and some you should just avoid. I would say it helps if you know some Spanish and though some here disagree, if you look at how others dress and try not to stand out, you should be ok. I would fool around with buses and "get lost" during the day rather than at 2 AM so that at least you can turn around if you end up somewhere that frightens you.

Where exactly is your school located? If you have an address we can tell you more or less how the area is around there. Also, where wuld you be living? Would you be alone here or with friends/classmates?

ksmmcg says on Jan 17, 2007, 22:44:

it depends i would say that you have to be street smart - i just got back from bogota and yes i was only there for about two weeks but i am also a female, and tall so i stand out but still with lighter hair and lighter eyes - but knowing spanish makes a difference but overall at night stick to the safe neighborhoods - during the day watch your back but probably the same as you would in any other big city like nyc - just be aware of your surroundings. also when you think about those deaths be realistic people are murdered in the US too (regardless of circumstance) - lets not just think of it in terms of colombia

Robert Jorge says on Jan 18, 2007, 01:42:

Good advice above. I was going to say, "How many Americans have been murdered in Miami last year?" Unless you have very bad luck, or are looking for trouble, you will be fine. Petty crime like purse snatching and pick-pocketing are probably much more prevalent in Bogota than in the US, so take appropriate precautions. To get murdered or kidnapped in Bogota, you really would have to hit the lottery or be struck by lightning. I made the mistake of visiting my fiancee's relatives late at night on the south side. She was comfortable, but I was literally frightened. Obviously a gringo, dressed in camo shorts, lots of money in my pocket, a bottle of ron in my hand, and a mile to walk down the hill to a road that was decent enough for taxis to drive by. My relatives felt fine, but I felt like a target - and like I was making them a target. But, that was a very poor and rough barrio; and around Centro and the north side, you will be as safe as in any other big city. Just keep a low profile and keep your guard up. Unlike in the US, if you leave your purse unattended for 10 minutes at a bar table, you will be missing your cell and money. It could happen here, but it is almost guaranteed in Colombia. I think they call it "selling papaya".

Again, the chances of you being kidnapped or murdered or killed in a bombing would be similar to being struck by lightning. But, street crime happens, and you have to take the proper precautions. If you are alert and wise, Bogota is no more dangerous than New York, Miami, LA, or whatever city. Of course many guys will now rip me for saying this.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

gringolondinense says on Jan 18, 2007, 03:38:

i read last night that in 2005 there were 30,000 murders in colombia. Im not sure if this is true or not lol! :-)

JMCana says on Jan 18, 2007, 03:57:

Safer than Detroit I am from Detroit and now live near Bogotá. Statistically you have twice as much chance of being murdered in Detroit or Flint, Michigan than you do in Bogotá. But as in those two cities exercise the same caution in Bogotá, don't be stupid and be street smart. Use common sense.

As for murders in Colombia in 2005, the official figure I saw was under 18,000 for all of Colombia.

aztec says on Jan 18, 2007, 06:14:

Be careful, be very careful... ..."I walk around at night alone until 10 or 11 on a daily basis." BxUnika

My relatives through marriage were all born and raised in Bogotá and there are a lot of them. Not one of them would do what you are doing on a daily basis. They live in strata 3/5 and range from children to old age.

aztec says on Jan 18, 2007, 06:27:

JMCana, interesting bit of information re. Detroit. A few years ago during a national teachers convention my friends wife was walking down the street with other friends. (She is from a small town) A man approached her and slugged her in the chest. She dropped to her knees in agony and the man ran off with her purse. No one could help because it happened so fast.

In Bogotá that would not have happened to her because she would never let down her guard. Your point is well made. A person must remain alert and aware of the surroundings.

Mario says on Jan 18, 2007, 09:51:

Sitting alone in The Pub at Zona T. This Colombiano who was a bit drunk came up to me as I sat on a bar stool and asked "where... fok... ju from man?" I said "aqui and drug out the "qui" a little. Almost like two words. "A - quiiii". The dude walked away. Being of Italian lineage, I don't look as gringo as some (and some Colombianos look more gringo than I do) but he spotted me when drunk, no less...

"The angle of the dangle is directly proportionate to the swerve of the curve."

juancegomez says on Jan 18, 2007, 11:45:

It varies, there are risks, but you can learn to handle them You need a fair amount of street smarts, as has been mentioned before, and knowing the language in order to communicate with others and realize what you should or shouldn't do in each particular situation also helps a lot.

I wouldn't say that it's just as safe as any random U.S. city, overall. But it's still relatively safe most of the time, for most people. Enough for millions of people to go through their lives without any significant harm, although they might well have relatives and friends that haven't been as lucky. That means that it's pretty safe, but not entirely so.

You can't eliminate the risk entirely, but as Robert Jorge said, if you take care of yourself the chances of something horrible happening to you are very low. Not non-existent, just low.

Do your homework, take care and hope that luck is on your side, and you'll probably do fine, more often than not.

BxUnika says on Jan 18, 2007, 20:02:

at Robert Jorge Well, I agree with almost all that you said, I would never say Bogota is as safe as any US city. PARTS of it are, but on the whole, nope. After a while you will get accustomed and have an idea of what your level of comfort is in certain situations. I cannot think of one place at home in NYC I would ever be scared to go into or have real reason to fear, but that is not necessarily the case here in Bogota.

BTW, I loved "selling papayas". I think that sounds better than "giving papaya". If dando papaya is giving people the upper hand, vendiendo papaya should mean suicide. I think I am going to use that now. LOL

BxUnika says on Jan 18, 2007, 20:21:

"I don't think you should be afraid to come here. I am out late and here and there and I have seen some stuff here. I can't understand how ANYONE who is out late at night for an extended period living here and never see's a problem."

No, I have seen a few things. There is a difference between being cautious and being stupid. I am walking around Chico, Chapinero, etc., not the south at night time. At least here, my thing is is that unless you have a reason to go into certain neighborhoods, you just don't belong there.

"The difference is that if you are very gringo you are going to stand out. EVERYONE knows that here and you are a target since you are seen as having money. That is the truth, so it would be the same if you were a white businessman in Detriot and you were driving in a Mercedes in your three piece suit and got out and took a walk in the worst neighborhood. That is the way it is in the south of Bogota."

Well, you are correct but I keep my trips to the south to a minimum. In actuality, some of these neighborhoods here they I go out in are safer than where I lived in the US (the Bronx, Washington Hts., Corona). I am careful but I am not going to live incarcerated where I don't leave my house after 6 PM.

Also, if you speak Spanish, do so. I don't know how others feel here, but sometimes I see Americans and the only reason I know they are from the US is that they are speaking English loudly and just sticking out like a sore thumb. I don't really speak English in the street. This afternoon I saw an American and two Aussies (??) speaking English in La Candelaria. I had mixed feelings about that.

"I have taken buses all around and just getting on one for a ride is stupid. They may end you up in a real shit hole end of the line and tell you to get off. I have taken them into some less than nice areas but prefer a taxi. I have also taken them to the end of the line and I know where that is if you are going south adn it aint always pretty."

Precisely. That's why I am telling him, use buses during the day at first so that if you do get on the wrong one and end up in a shithole the chances are good that in daylight you'll make it out. It would be ridiculous to pretend it's totally safe here and then take some bus nad mistakenly end up in Bosa or some place.

"You can not live like that here as a gringo and not end up in trouble. Sure you can get away with it. I do get away with it but not on a regular basis and I know the risk I am taking. Sooner or later it may catch up with me, hope not but I know that the more I expose myself to risk the higher my chances of having a problem."

I don't think eating at Crepes & Waffles at 9 PM in Parque del 93 constitudes as high risk behavior. I am not out drinking. I would not stay out in, say, near Plaza Bolivar by myself after about 7 PM. That would just be stupid. Go to plavces where lots of people are and that has good lighting. Stick to the main streets and don't wander off into dark streets or use park pathways.

"The key to being here is risk management and street smarts. Those two things in mind and their is no reason you won't have any problems. If you are out to prove Bogota safer than any US city you are going to go down my friend."

That's for sure. I lived in NY in crappy areas and let me tell you, the South Bronx, Bed-Stuy, East NY, and Brownsville has nothing on South Bogota. Honestly, there are some lower-middle class areas around here that I avoid just becase they look and remind me of certain undesirable areas of NY.

Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 18, 2007, 20:22:

Another way of looking at it Is that if you're going to go SOMEWHERE to do a Spanish language course, Bogota is probably MUCH safer than Mexico City or Caracas in terms of violent crime and about the same as places like Lima or Quito. A little street smarts goes a long way. If you have no street smarts, well then, don't come.

BxUnika says on Jan 18, 2007, 20:33:

Agree with JuanceGomez As a woman it is a bit different, though. My rule of thumb is that whenever go someplace new, I look to see if there are a lot of females around and if so, are they alone or accompanied. I think it is kind of a drag sometimes because in most of Manhattan, say, young woman are out and about alone until all hours of the night. I get home by about 10 and that's it because any later would be risking it.

I think some people go to one of two extremes: either they think Bogota is just like any US or European city and just totally stand out by doing ridiculous things and think they are invincible. I think there are a few of those types on this board, the ones that adamantly argue that any Colombian city is as safe or safer than the US. That is a mistake. On the other hand, there are some people who seem to be paranoid and overly cautious, people who would probably stay in their houses after 7 PM and be scared to buy a carton of milk in Chico at 9 PM.

Really, just look at what others are doing as a guide if you are unsure. If there is a street with no one walking on it, totally desolate, there is probably a good reason for it. I think it also helps if you have lived in a major city before and therefore, are privy to urban issues that aren't so prevalent in the suburbs and rural areas.

adrimm says on Jan 18, 2007, 22:06:

Good thread, well explained answers.. hopefully the OP will have some have something to say now!

I think that PBH should have a spot dedicated to posts made by people home after their first visit to Colombia... it would be great to hear back from them find out their impressions, especially considering the trepidation that many seem to have.

elmodefoque says on Jan 19, 2007, 06:12:

Sorry for not contributing Sorry for interrupting and not contributing anything of substance to this thread but something just caught my eye and I feel the need to address it.
Hey BxUnika, so you're blonde, blue eyed and 5’8�. WOW!!!
Have you ever been to Barranquilla? Is just like walking around Broadway, uptown Manhattan in the middle of the summer.
Listen, I need to talk to you in private, here’s my email malpariohp at yahoo.com drop me a line.
Once again, sorry for the interruption.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

JMCana says on Jan 19, 2007, 07:16:

Street Smarts and common sense Basically what advice everyone speaks about is street smarts and common sense. It always goes saying to watch all around you and avoid any situation that looks uncomfortable, to keep hidden money for emergency, to always be polite to someone who has the upper hand.

I like the comment by BX,
"I think it also helps if you have lived in a major city before and therefore, are privy to urban issues that aren't so prevalent in the suburbs and rural areas."
That way these ideas are likely to be more normal. But if you come from a small Midwest town then perhaps you should read much of the advice given here a couple times.

To say that Bogotá is completely save is ridiculous. While statistically your chances of being shot in Detroit are greater than in Bogotá does not mean you take chances or neglect common sense. Be aware of your surroundings. Do not walk with your head down looking only at the sidewalk. Do not look like a victim. Do not present your self as an opportunity. Water travels the path of least resistance, a mugger or robber will do the same thing and pick on the easiest and weakest with the least trouble and possibility of harm to himself.

I enjoyed DonGringo's comment of, "so it would be the same if you were a white businessman in Detriot and you were driving in a Mercedes in your three piece suit and got out and took a walk in the worst neighborhood."
Made me smile - been there done that - but not with the Mercedes because that is what would get me in trouble more than being white in a business suit. I drove a Lincoln Town Car. Don't drive an expensive foreign made car in the motor city where people have lost their jobs because of foreign cars.

The same thought process applies to Bogotá. As the others have said, don't go around advertising that you are a gringo. And don't do things which offend people. Treat everyone with respect.

So far the basic precautions expressed in this thread have helped me easily survive living in Detroit, Chicago, LA, Mexico City, Bangkok and many smaller towns where I was obvious gringo. They can also help you not be afraid and enjoy the wonderful city of Bogotá, because it does have many beautiful and wonderful places.

elmodefoque says on Jan 19, 2007, 07:33:

DG, I've given out my fokin e-mail address to over 100 chicks and NOT ONE has written me, WTF is up? Nobody likes me, everybody hates me.
I need to clarify and also add to my previous statement. “Barranquilla is just like Broadway Manhattan�
To be totally honest there are a couple disparity. Unlike NYC, in Barranquilla you gonna see occasional burro pulling a cart and a bunch of cheap old decrepit motorcycles and shitty little cars, just like in Europe. You also have to watch your step or else you’re gonna fall in one of the many sidewalk holes and break your fokin neck, otherwise is just like Manhattan.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

elmodefoque says on Jan 19, 2007, 07:50:

LOL!!!!! I wanted to see how dogs go around with out wiping their ass so i went a week with out wiping my ass too. that stuff got real hard and it was painful to walk.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

BxUnika says on Jan 19, 2007, 08:54:

Re: DonGringo "I wonder what you think of this, since I agree with most of what you wrote with this exception: I have walked back to my house at 3AM many times and not had a problem not once but as ruitine. I have found in four years of doing so here that this works here but in the states does not. Here the robbery is not going to be on an empty street with no one around as there is no one to rob. In the states they like this so that no one can see what they are doing to you."

I agree with you mostly except, well, maybe you forgot? I am a female and have lived in various crappy areas and getting robbed or murdered are not my main concerns, if you get my drift. Walking down any dark streets for a female is probably not the smartest idea.

BxUnika says on Jan 19, 2007, 09:19:

Elmo Tienes MSN? Ya te anadi a mi MSN.