PBH / Colombia / Start Forums▼ (active) Travelguide Cheap hostels Pictures

Re:Women 2nd thoughts......Rocinante

Rocinante, if your first reply to my other post was referring to me..... “this is a post from someone who got a mailorder who was young, without kids and she’s backing out at the last visa step.” ....then I wish you would read more carefully, especially if I gave another response to clarify. Based only on the assumption that your comment was directed towards me let me say yet again, that my fiance is not backing out. It has nothing to do with my situation at all. It may however be of some help (or maybe not) for anyone who questions “is this normal” for this situation to happen. I was offering another view point or other possible explanation because I have seen someone asking this very question before on this website. There is bound to be another one asking it again. Again, based on the sole assumption that your comment was directed towards me let me also say....No, she is not a “mail order.” I met her through a mutual friend. She had no intention of relocating before she met me and while I am definitely no Brad Pitt, I have more sense of self worth and self esteem to know that she didn’t “settle” for me. I am humbled and honored that she would see in me a lifetime of love, devotion and happiness opening up to her...But, I am even more humbled and honored at the blessing bestowed on me. If your comment wasn’t directed towards me, then just ignore the above. :)

I would think that a condescending “mail order” remark would highly offend some people. Particularly women. In defense of the honest, sincere and good hearted women who are (or were) on a dating site.... whether it be a Christian dating site, a personals dating site, a match/com dating site or any of the other dating sites, or at singles dances or singles church socials or speed dating.....they are not whores, sluts, animals or pieces of meat. They may in fact be human beings looking for a different alternative way to meet someone for an honest sincere relationship besides walking down the street, through friends or in bars hoping to meet someone. True, some are less than honest or even “gold diggers“...but they are still women. I am sure I am way tooooo old fashion for a lot of the “macho real men“, but I believe you should always treat a woman like a lady...even if they happen to be a hooker on the street. You don’t have to be walked on, p at *&y whipped, soft or let someone take advantage of you to respect women. There are women all over the world looking for new ways to try to find a meaningful relationship. I don’t think geography makes any woman less of a woman...whether it be Colombia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Russia, Philippines or even the U.S.A.

Being old fashioned again in regards to your “the ones most worth loving are the ones who truly love their culture, country, and family and would never put themselves on the “relocation auction block” in the first place” idea......while it may not be an obvious popular idea with some....I would think that a person believes that when their spouse says “I love you” that they also mean, in addition to other things, “you are more important than where I live”. I don’t think it’s true love if someone chooses geography over a person. I would still be a good ol’ country boy from America no matter where I lived....practicing my same customs and culture and traditions. Same for her...she will always be Colombian.... devoted to family and friends, having that same zest for life and love, having that unique Colombian outlook on things that matter most in life. True, some things may change a bit due to her move here but, a country doesn’t define who the people are, the people define the country. She may not always be a part of Colombia...but Colombia will always be a part of her, because it’s a big part of who she is ....inside. It’s not “Colombia” that adds to their beauty....it’s their unique ability to love someone or something that passionate and with such devotion, their great devotion to family and friends, their general ability to love life a lot fuller than what I see for the most part here. Those traits seem to be more commonly widespread in the people I’ve met there than in many places that I’ve been to in America. Another old fashioned idea that doesn’t seem popular with you is that when two people marry their place is with each other....not one or the other’s family. The husband and wife come first. I wouldn’t want a woman who chooses her family or country over me no matter where I lived. You can’t be in a healthy, true love, blessing of a marriage if your number 3, 4, 5 or any other number down the list. That’s the whole concept of marriage....One man and One woman, I would think? Kids are even secondary to the marriage because it’s the “foundation” for everything else. Built on anything else, well....you will have a multitude of needless problems.

I’ve read your “catch 22” a few times on other things....sounds like that saying “I wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would have me as a member.” I could be wrong but, it appears you would only want a woman who doesn’t want you as much as she wants other things. Basically.... someone who loves other people and things more than she loves YOU. In my humble opinion....anyone can truly love their country, culture, traditions, language and family no matter what part of the world they move to or no matter where life and destiny or marriage may take them. It’s either a part of you on the inside or it isn’t.... but true, pure, honest and sincere love and devotion for your spouse will over ride all other things.
Contrary to your “catch 22”, I would think the “ones most worth loving are the ones who” sincerely, honestly and truly love you for you, the person who‘ve been waiting to come along your whole life, the person you see who loves their culture, country, family (the qualities your catch 22 names) with such passionate love and devotion is now willing to love you the same way and even love you more ...someone who would even give their life for you if need be. One of the many wonderful things about being devoted and being truly in love is....you never know where it will take you in life. IMHO.

By seammckenna126 on Jan 16, 2006, 10:24 in Friendly Talkzone.

utopiacowboy says on Jan 16, 2006, 11:39:

Excellent post, dude. Well said.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jan 16, 2006, 14:53:

Having a relationship in her country is the easy part. It is the vacation, non reality-based relationship that is the most dangerous...falling in love with someone you have never even met, etc.

The worst thing a gringo can do is throw around his new-found buying power and shower women with gifts and make them believe they have an easier lifestyle than reality in the US. The majority of men out there probably have $10-25,000 in savings, but that does not mean they should utilize it to woo a woman. The reverse is probably true...they should spend as little money as possible in the initial or dating stage, then invest their time and energies when they have found a fiance or someone they are pretty sure about marrying. It is much better to spend another $2-3,000 on a second or third trip than spend that money on a diamond ring, especially since diamond rings are incredibly dangerous to wear in this country anyway.

Do whatever is it you can to see her in her natural environment, and spend time in her house (either staying in another room or renting a nearby hotel) instead of a trip to San Andres or Las Islas del Rosario, Santa Marta...especially around friends, ex-novios, family, church, around kids or a school, volunteering...if she wants to hide you from all these people, there is probably something wrong with the situation.

The other reason I say you should save your money is due to the fact that bringing someone here on a K-1 or K-3 visa is a 3-5 year process (you can get her here in 4-6 months, but that is just the first step)...government forms and applications and interviews and invasive medical examinations and inappropriate questions from consular offices...getting your house ready for her arrival (bachelor proof, lol)...teaching her how to drive and simply just getting around in a foreign city and culture, away from her friends, church, family, dog or cat...luckily with the Internet, it is easier to feel at home while away, but it still a very trying experience for even the most prepared couples. Many women do not adjust from moving to the city life from a more provincial or village perspective...and certainly, a girl moving from say, Pereira or Manizales, to the rural south would also have lots of problems in adjusting.

I say this from the experience of someone who has sponsored someone from another country, and this a girl who spoke nearly flawless and certainly fluent English upon arrival...and a woman with five years of college under her belt.

You are like a dad in this situation, taking care of a little kid that depends upon you for almost everything. The men who survive this trial with children on both sides of the equation have my complete admiration...a lot of times, the children are the only things that hold these relationships together through tough times, with the woman afraid to leave for fear that she wont be able to take care of her child or children economically.

It was the greatest experience and the worst at the same time. I would never trade it for anything in the world...but I am not sure I could ever go through it again. I learned a lot about the compromises two spoiled only children need to make to get along...this chapter of my life is not complete, but I am also in the unique position of living in Colombia and possibly meeting someone I would want to spend the rest of my life with. Living here, I have a much higher income and the ability to take care of a family...in the US, I am just a member of the middle class, lol. What scares me the most is if my mother were to get sick and I had to leave my novia-wife-fiance in Colombia and return to the US to take care of her.

But believe me, Ive seen and written lots of similar things myself about the first year of my relationship, and the perspective is a little bit different in year 3 and 4.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jan 16, 2006, 15:17:

I think the main point rocinate was trying to make was simply caveat emptor. If you have been burned once or twice in the foreign dating endeavor, it is hard not be too skeptical and almost paranoid.

You see the reverse side of the coin...men afraid to begin another relationship for fear of getting hurt again. Men that can list 100 reasons why their particular girl is different from all the rest.

Of course, there is a middle ground here. Not all Colombian women are gold diggers, not all American women are bad (most are great IMO)...not all men that meet or marry Colombian women are fat, divorced twice, bald, 35-55, computer geeks that lean towards the conservative side of the political fence and are looking for a 1950s style woman to cook, clean and bring up the young-uns.

The only answer to this equation is getting to know the person as well as humanly possible...then making a commitment and seeing it through. There are lots of keyboard Romeos and Casanovas that never make the trip, which leads to lots of skeptical women that maintain their in-country relationships and are string 2-5 different men along at the same time, some bringing in as much as $2-3,000 per month (we all know the buying power of that in pesos)...just like there are lots of Internet profiles of smokinhotkovas (a take-off on Anna Kournikova) that have a Fat Yuri (a mafioso or corrupt old man) using these modelling pictures and romantic e-mails (saying I love you in the 2nd or 3rd e-mail and asking for money for a visa would be a tip-off) to lure men into sending money by Western Union for an aunt or cousin in need of a bone marrow transplant or just recovering from an auto acccident, lost job and needs that money to go down the Internet cafe and video-chat with you each day after your work is over, lol.

I dont know the exact percentages, but I would say there is a definite correlation between years of post-high school education and the likelihood of someone looking for the so-called bigger, better deal.

In general, the more education the girl has, or if shes lives in Bogota, Medellin, Santa Marta, San Andres, Cali, etc., the less incentive she has to come to the US. What does she have to gain if she already has an education, a car, a good job? More opportunities...just be careful, and do not get into any relationship to save another person from circumstances growing up much worse than yours. As only an only child and victim of Catholic guilt as well, I have realized it is not my responsibility to save every single woman in the world, lol, and better their circumstances.

Think of it this way...if you really love her, you should be willing to give up your life and accommodate her. Live in her country for at least a couple of years, learn her language and appreciate her culture. You have to be willing to meet halfway. If she doesnt want this, its probably because she is more concerned with having the opportunity to leave her life behind and move to the US as soon as possible. This, clearly, is to be avoided.

There is a reason there arent hundreds of women coming from the Ukraine, Phillipines, Russia, Colombia, etc., to the US and bringing back husbands with them (besides the fact they often cannot get a visa for fear they will never depart the US)...it is because we can offer our American-ness, our country, our higher income level or higher standard of living...OPPORTUNITY.

How many of the men here can honestly say that their wife makes more than they do in salary? If they can say it, then they are the lucky ones...because most of these relationships are based on power, money and control...we have it for a time, but it does not stay this way forever. And usually the best girls are the ones that are the most independent and self-sufficient...so it takes a very confident (not cocky or arrogant) man who knows what he has to offer and does not need to shower women with pictures of his house, car, vacation home, boat, etc.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Jan 16, 2006, 20:26:

If she's anything like my wife, Mario, she'll do very well. My wife just snagged a job with the new Toyota truck plant opening in San Antonio. She's on her way!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

rocinante says on Jan 16, 2006, 21:33:

seammckenna126,

Please understand I was not talking about you.

I've only read only the first three lines of this post here to me and see that you think I wrote to or about you. Click THIS, it is a link that will take you to my post - the one that you quoted right here. Please go to that post and go to the end and check out the exact words that you quoted. The person and post I'm referring to are linked - the brown words "she's backing out" at the very bottom will take you to where and who I'm talking about. There is absolutely no doubt.

After checking that out it should be clear who I was exactly referring to as I pasted a link in the actual text. Because of that, the rest of your post may not pertain. But you seem to have written good deal and I will read your post and the others in this thread tomorrow when I have time. I'm getting crushed at work at the moment and have to sleep immediately - I can't get sucked into this thread right now. I can't believe I was able to even squeeze this out.

I'm not re-reading this so there may be some extra idiot speak other than my usual - if that's possible.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Not that the US president actually runs the US." Feb 5, 2008

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jan 17, 2006, 04:26:

First of all, if she wanted, she could have any guy she wants in the city where she lives, so I am not sure why she would respond to an e-mail from someone in a different city.

She absolutely hates message boards, and she really doesn´t trust anyone very easily...certainly not someone from the Internet.

But good luck.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

seammckenna126 says on Jan 17, 2006, 18:54:

an apology rocinante, I publicly apologize about my first paragraph in my post...as I stated, that I assumed you were referring to me. As you clearly showed me you had not and I was wrong. Actually I didn't know that there were links in your post. I apologize.
The rest of my post is a friendly rebuttal for your "catch 22", which oddly enough makes a bit a sense...although I haven't quite figured out why.

0 funny, 0 helpful.