Respect for others, Responsibility for one's actions, or nobody has anything to sue for...

MacGringo says on Jul 20, 2005, 12:40:

Or maybe not every country wants to get to the state that the USA is in, where you cant even f*****g look at someone the wrong way without gettin sued!!!!

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 20, 2005, 13:31:

Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 20, 2005, 13:48:

Not all is run down in Colombia Adrimm, I understand your point, but I live in what is probably the single most expensive neighborhood in the entire country of Colombia. And even here it's common to see missing manhole covers in the middle of the street, coffin-sized holes in the sidewalks, and construction debris left everywhere.

I like the expectation of personal responsibility and lack of litigeousness, but sometimes the "at-your-own-risk" thing gets taken a bit far here.

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el gamin says on Jul 20, 2005, 13:53:

i liked the missing covers and holes :) it made my view much more wide.

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caslug says on Jul 20, 2005, 14:04:

uneven sidewalk.. in rich area of Bogota. I saw a old lady trip and fell on her face because of it, bunch of us passer by ran over to help her up. She got up got her groceries and just walked off, same with us good samaritan. No one even blinked or curse the sidewalk. Walk down Beverly hills doubt you see potholes, holes or uneven sidewalks. BUT it's not fair to really compare COL to US, US has LOTS more money to use to fix things.

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c2 says on Jul 20, 2005, 14:47:

You all will be... ... contacted by my lawyer in the following days. I was very "hurt" by your comments.
Regards,
c2

**Disclaimer** the text of my contents are the property of myself (referred to as c2 hereto forth) and cannot be used without my consent. Nothing I have stated herewith can be held against me and may not have been said by me at all but my insane alter-ego.**

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 15:36:

I being a member of the profession that everyone loves to hate, will be the first to admit that the amount of litigation that exists here is the US is beyond the realm of common sense. However the type of negligence or potential problem that the author of this thread is talking about does not apply to the "excess litigation category." I think you guys are confusing the situation where when a person is sitting at a red light, and a car behind him inadvertently let's his foot slip off the brake. Then the guy stopped jumps out of the car claiming he has every neck and back ache he can imagine. Then he turns around and sues for 20,000 dollars in damage.

The situation where someone does not properly maintain their brick work or facade, and then a part of the building falls on someone's head killing them dead is different. Don't you think that if that happened to you or a loved one that the owner of the building should pay for the damage or possible loss if their person is severely injured or killed. There is not any of you that would not run to a lawyer as quick as you could get there to sue. If you didn't, you would be pretty dumb.

Another example.

I have a friend from Guatemala. She is 24 years old and beautiful. However she is confined to a wheel chair for the rest of her life because in an operation, the doctor accidentally cut her spinal cord. She is paralyzed from the T3 down to her toes. No feeling, no movement, and she can never have a relationship because who will date this woman? And seeking of no relationship, she has no sensation and therefore can never enjoy sexual relations. In Guatemala, the Doctor said: "I am sorry." End of story. Now, let one of you people tell me that this woman was not entitled to some damages from this Doctor who only could offer her an I'm sorry. In Guatemala, the doctor was obligated to pay nothing. He did not even have to pay for the special costs that a person like this incurs as a result of such negligence.

So yes, while things may be unreasonable in the US at times, the Latin American situation is far worse than the excess litigation of the US. Colombia is much closer to Guatemala than it is to the US.

Sorry, to say but I like a system where people are held accountable for their negligence. And guess what, so would each and every one of you guys if it were your asses that suffered the loss. And, you would check for the best attorney you could find.

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 20, 2005, 15:42:

Does anyone know... What the families in Bogota received after an earthmover fell off the side of a hill, crushed a bus and killed 20 children (2004)?



And what about El Nogal (2003)? I imagine most of the victims had life insurance but can survivors and relatives sue the Club for something along the lines of failure to maintain a secure environment? Can businesses in Colombia buy terrorism insurance?

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 15:51:

Tinto, I don't know if Terrorism insurance is available in Colombia. But I know you can buy kidnapping insurance.

I am not even sure if terrorism insurance is available in the US. But let me say this, terrorism and kidnapping are not a result of negligence. They are a byproduct of a turbulent political climate. In Colombia, where the ongoing civil war insues, the kidnapping rate, although lower, is a direct by product of the civil war. For example,in Costa Rica, where there is relative peace, kidnapping is unheard of.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 16:04:

Mario...I don't know where or when you sued But. The standard rate in this country is one third of the recovery if there is no trial and 40 or 45% (depending on the lawyer) if he has to try the case. The filing of the suit in and of itself should not ever vary the amount the lawyer earns. Most of the time, the lawyer files the suit so that he tolls the statute of limitations. In almost every state the statute of limitations is 2 years from the date of the incident. Or in the case of medical malpractice cases/drug actions (and a few others), it is 2 years from the date the symptoms of damage occur.

Mario while you may not thing the attorney's fee is justifialbe, try and settle a case for yourself. You always have that option of doing so. But I KNOW that a non lawyer can not recover the same money that a lawyer can because a lawyer has to "work a case up" by evaluation your damages. The extent of damage and amount of time you will be injurred. Theories of liability have to be examined. And a determination if there was contributory or comparitive issues present.

Finally, if you think that you, or any non lawyer can get an insurance adjuster to give you as much lawyer will get for you, you are seriously kidding yourself. Also, if your health insurance co. paid out for the damage caused by others, they are entitled to subrogation and they will definitely file a lien on whatever recovery you do get. You, without a lawyer would have to pay that back dollar for dollar. A lawyer can get that reduced by at least one third.

Sorry friend, you will never ever be able to get the same amount of money in your pocket as a lawyer can recover for you. So you will pay a lawyer his fee, but in the end, he will get you much more $$ and you will still be ahead of the game than if you were to try to settle the case yourself.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 17:56:

Republic or Commonwealth.....follow same common law rules Those titles make good politics. That is about the extent of it. Both follow English common law rules, but all the states have the right to emact limitations on tort liability. They can draft rules as to under what circumstances one may recover.

That being said, Mario my friend, your lawyer may very well have violated several rules that are set foth in the Uniform Code of Professional Responsibiltiy. I am loath to advise someone to "turn in" a lawyer for wrongfull conduct. In that regard, every state has it's own disciplianary comission that will investigate an attorney's conduct.

I would encourage you to file a report if you honestly believed he was not acting in a proffessional manner. At a minimum, you will put him on the defensive. And don't think that if he did something wrong that he will not be disciplined. He will. I am sure of it. Every state I know disciplines it's attorney regularly. Such discipline could in the form of a reprimand, censor, suspension, or if the conduct is serious enough, disbarment.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 20, 2005, 18:10:

G5 The difference between Guatemala and the US is that in the US you'd never hear a doctor say "I'm sorry."

On the other hand, a multi-million dollar settlement would be nice after a disaster like that.

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 20, 2005, 18:13:

Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 18:27:

Well Hollywood If a doctor accidently cut your spinal cord, I don't think you would be interested in hearing an "I'm sorry". I'll take the mega millions that I would be entitled to as a result that kind of negligence.

Amazingly enough, this 26 year old princess, is fluent in English and is now teaching bilingual education in the Chicago Public school system. She is always happy, with a smile on her face. She really has a prety face, and it is a shame that some doctor robbed her of a decent life. If she was not wheel chair bound, the men would be chasing her.

I am her good friend though, and we talk all the time. I take her out to eat to. It's a bit of a job, but it is worth every minute. She is happy and I get satisfaction ok knowing that I made her feel important......and wanted.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 20, 2005, 18:51:

Depends You know, I suppose a lot depends on whether that spinal cord injury was negligence or part of the acceptable risk of the operation (say, if he was removing a spinal tumor).

One of the things I really like in Colombia is that the doctors aren't scared shitless and constantly trying to cover themselves from possible lawsuits, nor are they trying to see 8 patients an hour to keep up with their malpractice insurance. There are tradeoffs to every system.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 19:09:

Hollywood....trade offs? I suppose In the case of Silvana, she did not have the type of procedure where severing the spinal cord was not a known risk in the course of performing this procedure. That has already been established by several neuro and orthopoedic surgeons she consulted with here.

But you are right. There are always trade offs.

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brunito says on Jul 20, 2005, 19:48:

Malpractice insurance is killing the profession I have a friend who's a neuro-surgeon.

She's hyper specialised and after doing her residency here in Montreal at Notre Dame Hospital went on to get a special residency training at John Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore for 2 years more (special training and learning from top neuro-surgeon who has developped new brain tumor surgery protocols in the late 90s.

She then went on to study more about spinal cord surgery as well as back pain surgery for another 2 years at a top university hospital in France.

Now bear in mind that those fees were not covered by our education system and that the residency work at both places was barely covering her rent and cost of living.

When she got back to Montreal, Hopkins wanted her back for full time work but she was'nt that much interested and malpractice insurance fees scared her. Here, in Quebec, her insurance cost her at most/worst $50,000 CAD per year. If it were anywhere else in Canada, it would cost her at least $75,000 CAD per year because there is a higher complaint ratio then in Quebec province for malpractice issues.

If she were in the States? at least $200,000 USD per year...

Then people wonder why hospitals are closing down in the States for refusal of doctors to work in them because of insurance fees....

I think I prefer our universal health system where our doctors can be held accountable for their errors and pay for them albeit sometimes it can be long or borderline (HIV case at Ste-Justine is an example but at the same time the doctor in question always followed protocol and was a top doctor in her field. the error was the hospital refusing that the doctor disclose her information to her patients/their families even though she offered to. Sad thing is that when asked if they would have still agreed to be operated by her, 90% would have accepted because that doctor (not my friend) was one of the world's best pediatric surgeons in her domain). Of course the hospital waited untill the doctor died and then launched a scare recall campain for blood samples in order to avoid liability...

Anyway, I'm very proud of my friend because she had the guts to refuse Hopkins' offer where she could easily have made a million USD per year. She chose to stay in Qc instead and work with our system. As she told me, she's not interested at retiring at 45 like her fellow students from her residency time at Hopkins keep telling here when she sees them at conventions...

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:20:

The guy who did my nose surgery has totally STOPPED working with insurance companies and only takes cash on the barrelhead now. He got sick and tired of the problems of dealing with him and is THAT good that he still has plenty of deep-pocketed clients and doesn't need to worry.

To tell the truth, I'd be shit scared to see any doctors in Montreal or anywhere else in Canada given what I know about the state of that system. My uncle was one of those guys who stayed on as a pediatrician in Winnipeg; actually he went to Pittsburgh for some years to pay off his loans first, or he'd probably STILL be paying them off in Canada. And even he agrees that the American system is much better quality care at most levels. The bottom level here is no worse than what EVERYBODY in Canada has to put up with, and even then you don't have the insane wait time issues.

I'm actually totally against mandatory insurance on anything. Insurance is bullshit; and if it's mandatory it winds up being just like another freaking tax. I think if they want to make the roads safer they need to make the driver's test MUCH more demanding, and if you don't pass, you don't drive, too bad, get on the goddamn bus like the rest of us. I don't even think I should be driving (I usually don't actually).

I read somewhere the USA has 74 times the amount of lawyers per capita that Canada does (Canada has the #2 concentration of lawyers worldwide). That just goes to show you how out of control things are here. Although I do admit I wouldn't want to be wheelchair-bound anywhere in Colombia either.

Gomezman, would you think it would be fair for everybody's medical costs in Guatemala to be ten times what they are now, in exchange for a system where your friend could get compensated for what happened? I really don't know where I stand on that one. I guess I'm neutral. It's certainly a very complex issue.

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brunito says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:42:

Rubiazo You know what? I don't care at all for those who keep complaining about our system and keep saying that the american system with all its HMO and malpractice crap is so much better then our system when HMOs keep pushing down your throat the doctor THEY WANT you to use so he won't provide you the best care there is.

So please stop telling me that the american system is better. This is a fabulation brought up by the neo conservatives to make you the citizen eat more out of their hands food that you put there in the first place...

Then, there is the whole education scam that a lot of people are getting found of here in Qc. Right, get Harvard or Sorbonne quality education at 10% of the cost since you're a canadian resident, get loan to finance your 8 years of study then default on your loan by disappearing from the map or going under the radar by going down to the States or to Europe or to Australia where they actually send head hunters to Montreal, Qc City and Sherbrooke to steal our final year students on graduation day.

A law should be passed making it mandatory for people studying in medicine in a public University in Qc to be responsible for life for their student loans and to stay here for the duration of the reimbursement before being allowed to leave the province for friendlier skies (calling them vampires would be more appropriate)

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BAQ says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:44:

Lighten up Coming from America I have to say, if ya want to sue people stay in American. If ya want to LIVE, have a HAPPY SIMPLE LIFE and enjoy streets filled with fantastic looking women, then come down to Colombia. After living here, I would not return to the states for any amount of money. Now keep in mind I live on the Atlantic coast so maybe things are different in Bogota however I suspect they are the same. Sure, streets are bad, (would never ride a motorcycle here) but once you get to know the in's and outs of Colombia, its great. Just depends on what you are looking for in your life. I got tired of the rat race and chasing the dollar. Evidence? Try coming down here at Christmas, the holiday is kept in the SPIRIT of Christmas and has not been so comerialized that you loose the meaning. As for the lawyers, they could care less about the streets being fixed, its all about $$$$$$$$$. Anyway, just a thought.

Semper Fidelis !

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brunito says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:48:

Btw, I do know of somebody who did just that. He got his entire education at McGill on Qc resident fees and once he had his degree in radiology moved down to South Carolina, got married, got 2 kids.

He is now thinking of coming back here. Why? his 2 kids are costing him upwards of $50k USD per semester (one is at Harvard, the other at Duke).

Now, of course , he finds that our educational system is not that bad after all....


Btw, you'd be surprised how many americans are studying at McGill and how many europeans/africans are studying at Université de Montréal, UQAM, or Université de Sherbrooke

And I haven't even talked about Concordia or Laval yet...

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:51:

Brunito My observations on the medical systems are based on 8 years experience here in the US and 24 years in Canada. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Your friend may very well be a good doctor, but most Canadian doctors are TERRIBLE. When i lived in Toronto I used to pay out of pocket to go see a Chinese doctor because I was afraid to deal with the regular one I was paying all those insane taxes to see for free!
The problem here is not the quality of the medical care, its just how goddamn expensive it is!!!! And costs in many cases have more than tripled since i moved here which was only back in 1997.
I really think that all-around a two-tier system is the best way to go. Have public healthcare which is accessible to all, and then allow private institutions to provide whatever healthcare they want and charge whatever they want for it. Of course the private system will always be better quality.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 20, 2005, 20:53:

BTW My brother teaches at Concordia and my sister in law teaches at McGill.
They are both excellent schools and excellent value for the money.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 21:10:

Honestly.....good points from all of you. I never said the Americain Medical system is best in the world. Kernow and I have talked about this issue on this site many times. We're a little of the subject because I was talking about a plainfiffs ability to recover money in general as a result of someone elses negligence.

In this country medical mal premiums are high. Very high. But, no tag days are necessary for the dr.'s. My friend here in Chicago pays 127,000 in med mal insurance. (That's dollars and not pesoso Colombiano) Sound like a lot and it is. He is an orthopedic surgeon and he performs a lot of suregery---almost every day. However, his gross income was was over a million a year. After all expenses, his net income was close to 700,000 last year. My point is that while doctors may pay a lot in med mal insurance, you neglected to mention how much they actually earn

Look, the Americna medical systme is still the most advanced, most modern, has some of the best doctors in general, and I would NEVER ever lived in a country that had socialzed medicine. If you think that medical care in Canada or europe is as good as it is in the US, you are either completey uninformed, naive, or just fooling yourselves. Most people in Canada who can afford it,bypass the Canadian health care system, and come to the US when they need Medical care. That is common knowlege. Our health care, while it is clearly the best with services on demand, it is also the most expensive. But here, MRIs, cat scans are available the next day here. No waits. No questions In Canada......no way it will not happen that quicly. it is common knowledge that people die in countries with socialized medicine. They die waiting for procedures that the socialized system prevents them from recieving in a timely manner. Socialized anything stinks.

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platano says on Jul 20, 2005, 21:57:

Gomezman5, have you considered USA iatrogenic deaths? Gomezman5 said: "Look, the American medical system is still the most advanced, most modern, has some of the best doctors in general"

In countries with socialized medicine there are fewer iatrogenic deaths.

In-Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year, HealthGrades' Study Finds

Little Progress Seen Since 1999 IOM Report on Medical Errors

Patient Safety Incidents In Hospitals Account for $6 Billion per Year in Extra Costs

Lakewood, Colo. (July 27, 2004) – An average of 195,000 people in the U.S. died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.

The HealthGrades Patient Safety in American Hospitals study is the first to look at the mortality and economic impact of medical errors and injuries that occurred during Medicare hospital admissions nationwide from 2000 to 2002. The HealthGrades study applied the mortality and economic impact models developed by Dr. Chunliu Zhan and Dr. Marlene R. Miller in a research study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in October of 2003. The Zhan and Miller study supported the Institute of Medicine’s (IOM) 1999 report conclusion, which found that medical errors caused up to 98,000 deaths annually and should be considered a national epidemic.

The HealthGrades study finds nearly double the number of deaths from medical errors found by the 1999 IOM report “To Err is Human,” with an associated cost of more than $6 billion per year. Whereas the IOM study extrapolated national findings based on data from three states, and the Zhan and Miller study looked at 7.5 million patient records from 28 states over one year, HealthGrades looked at three years of Medicare data in all 50 states and D.C. This Medicare population represented approximately 45 percent of all hospital admissions (excluding obstetric patients) in the U.S. from 2000 to 2002.

“The HealthGrades study shows that the IOM report may have underestimated the number of deaths due to medical errors, and, moreover, that there is little evidence that patient safety has improved in the last five years,” said Dr. Samantha Collier, HealthGrades’ vice president of medical affairs. “The equivalent of 390 jumbo jets full of people are dying each year due to likely preventable, in-hospital medical errors, making this one of the leading killers in the U.S.”

HealthGrades examined 16 of the 20 patient-safety indicators defined by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ) – from bedsores to post-operative sepsis – omitting four obstetrics-related incidents not represented in the Medicare data used in the study. Of these sixteen, the mortality associated with two, failure to rescue and death in low risk hospital admissions, accounted for the majority of deaths that were associated with these patient safety incidents. These two categories of patients were not evaluated in the IOM or JAMA analyses, accounting for the variation in the number of annual deaths attributable to medical errors. However, the magnitude of the problem is evident in all three studies.

“If we could focus our efforts on just four key areas – failure to rescue, bed sores, postoperative sepsis, and postoperative pulmonary embolism – and reduce these incidents by just 20 percent, we could save 39,000 people from dying every year,” said Dr. Collier.

The HealthGrades study was released in conjunction with the company’s first annual Distinguished Hospital Award for Patient SafetyTM, which honors hospitals with the best records of patient safety. Eighty-eight hospitals in 23 states were given the award for having the nation’s lowest patient-safety incidence rates. A list of winners can be found at http://www.healthgrades.com.

Study Highlights
Among the findings in the HealthGrades Patient Safety in American Hospitals study are as follows:
• About 1.14 million patient-safety incidents occurred among the 37 million hospitalizations in the Medicare population over the years 2000-2002.
• Of the total 323,993 deaths among Medicare patients in those years who developed one or more patient-safety incidents, 263,864, or 81 percent, of these deaths were directly attributable to the incident(s).
• One in every four Medicare patients who were hospitalized from 2000 to 2002 and experienced a patient-safety incident died.
• The 16 patient-safety incidents accounted for $8.54 billion in excess in-patient costs to the Medicare system over the three years studied. Extrapolated to the entire U.S., an extra $19 billion was spent and more than 575,000 preventable deaths occurred from 2000 to 2002.
• Patient-safety incidents with the highest rates per 1,000 hospitalizations were failure to rescue, decubitus ulcer and postoperative sepsis, which accounted for almost 60 percent of all patient-safety incidents that occurred.
• Overall, the best performing hospitals (hospitals that had the lowest overall patient safety incident rates of all hospitals studied, defined as the top 7.5 percent of all hospitals studied) had five fewer deaths per 1000 hospitalizations compared to the bottom 10th percentile of hospitals. This significant mortality difference is attributable to fewer patient-safety incidents at the best performing hospitals.
• Fewer patient safety incidents in the best performing hospitals resulted in a lower cost of $740,337 per 1,000 hospitalizations as compared to the bottom 10th percentile of hospitals.

The complete study, including the list of AHRQ patient-safety indicators, can be found at http://www.healthgrades.com.

“If the Center for Disease Control’s annual list of leading causes of death included medical errors, it would show up as number six, ahead of diabetes, pneumonia, Alzheimer’s disease and renal disease,” continued Dr. Collier. “Hospitals need to act on this, and consumers need to arm themselves with enough information to make quality-oriented health care choices when selecting a hospital.”

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 20, 2005, 22:02:

Gomezman5 says on Jul 20, 2005, 23:33:

Interesting article Platiano and Adrimm you are correct 42 millions people without health insurance. Up from 29 million in 1992-3. That is a huge jump if you ask me. However, that number is a bit misleading because even people who have no health insurance often get covereage from Meicicaid. Hey, if the illegal Mexicans who don't have any papers and can't speak a word of English can get in here and get coverage, don't you think an American can? Here is the problem. If your income is low enough, you get Medicaid. However if you are working and job does not provide health insurance, you can't get Medicaid. However, you still have access to the local public health hosptital in your locale. In Chicago, people without insurance go to Cook County Hospital.

I am a luck man. I have Cadilac heath insurance that gives me access to the best hospitals in Chicago. The estimated value as a part of my benefit package is about 750 dollars a month.

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Rubiazo says on Jul 21, 2005, 19:04:

You're definitely better treated as a kid in Canada, although they still don't have the technology they have in the US. But you are considered an adult at age 15 for emergency room purposes.

When I was a kid I was in and out of the hospital because of severe asthma. I used to be driven to Children's Hospital in downtown Winnipeg all the time. My uncle was actually on call there as a pediatrician for the most part of it and he would check up on me all the time. But he warned us once I turned 15, I would almost be better off in prison than as a patient at the Health Sciences Center next door. Fortunately I exercised my ass off as a teenager and that mitigated the asthma quite a lot.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 21, 2005, 19:55:

One small point Rubiazo said, "The bottom level here is no worse than what EVERYBODY in Canada has to put up with..."

I beg to differ. The bottom level in the US is having zero access to care. And that's true for a lot of people.

My observation about the US system is that it's the world's best if you have some horrible rare brain tumor and need the latest technology and the best Stanford med school graduate to save you. However, for the other 99.9% of illnesses that require common sense and a prescription pad to treat (how brilliant do you have to be to treat strep throat?), the system really falls apart. For years I had no health insurance in the US because I simply couldn't afford it. The few emergencies that happened to me, I had to pay out of pocket, which was less than insurance but still a lot of $$$ for me at the time.

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poco says on Jul 21, 2005, 21:20:

We are Screwed For years I had no health insurance in the US because I simply couldn't afford it.

I believe that was “planned” by the corporations YEARS ago,, you are supposed to have a JOB that pays for your insurance or allows you to pay for it out of your PAY CHECK or get GREAT rates from your “association”. I’d almost bet G5 has his insurance through his legal association, oh, he’s an employee,,, then through the corporation.

Credit Cards: Financial Slavery, YOU NEED TO WORK.
Health Care: Plain ole Slavery.

Canada needs more people BUT their Health Care system is instrumental in having a comfort zone for you and your family and allows an enterprising individual to start a small business.

I’ve read that by simply (ha) expanding medicare to EVERYONE the problem could be solved and the expense low. Hmmm kind of like having your own social security account where you SEE the money and it is YOURS. This entire U.S. system is totally screwed but,, help is on the way, but I can’t determine who or where.

You said it,,, Houston is the world MECCA for Health care, there is a HUGE, city sized separate “district” with the LATEST STUFF and a life saver if you are WEALTHY or have GREAT insurance,, ie: Not an HMO.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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BAQ says on Jul 21, 2005, 21:37:

THATS NO JOKE OK, if we are gunna talk about HEALTH, how about Rx's. Americans get so hosed on prices. It is a JOKE that I can purchase antibiotics, pain meds, and my other medications here for LESS than my DEDUCTABLE was with a health plan in the states. I agree with the other person wh posted, if i get some MAJOR, super serious illness, I would be on a plane back to the states OOOPS!, need to rob a bank first so I can PAY for the EXPENSIVE health care. Now to tie this into LITIGATION, you THINK the lower prices here for rx's and the lower cost of health case has anything to do with the ambulance chasing lawyers.

Give me a CHOICE between bad sidewalks or cheaper health care and Rx's, hell, I'd be happy to walk down the streets of Colombia blindfolded!!!!!!!!!!

Semper Fidelis !

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adrimm (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 21, 2005, 21:55:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 22, 2005, 01:25:

El seguro social "While we are on medical systems can someone please explain what the system in Colombia is? My mother has mentioned something called "El Seguro" (El Seguro Social) in Santander that had clinics and pharmacies etc. But I haven't really got a handle on who pays into it (or how) and if it is a public or privately administered thing." !(adrimm)

adri, el seguro social is government health care institution for people who are employed. I may not have all the facts right but there are people here who live in Colombia and are very familiar with it (juanalejo, santiBOG, carolain, paisa29 etc. give us a hand here, please!)

As far as I know all employers have to pay a certain amount to seguro social monthly (I'm not sure if the employee also contributes) to be able to be affiliated to it's services. The seguro social has clinics, drugstores etc with heavily subsidized costs. Main features to keep in mind: most people who can afford have private health care plans and avoid using seguro social. The crowds waiting to get an appointment or to get to see a doctor are huge and you have to wait for hours, sometimes to stand in line in front of another window next.
The service is of dubious quality and the system is very rigid and bureaucratic.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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tomtom33 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Jul 22, 2005, 05:55:

Mr. Hollywood says on Jul 22, 2005, 06:49:

Insurance in Colombia One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is how affordable basic private insurance is in Colombia. I know this because I pay it for my maid. It covers her and her family with basic medical care for about 60,000 pesos a month. I know for a fact that they're not waiting for weeks for care, nor standing in huge lines.

Try finding coverage for anything in the US for less than $30 per month.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 22, 2005, 08:15:

tomtom33 ....are you serious?? "The US could negotiate with the drug companies for lower rates."

The drug companies have the congress in their pocketets. The drug lobby is so powerful in this country. There is no way that the congress is going pass legislation that will force the drug companies to reduce their prices so as to cut into their profit margin.

It will not happen

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Cerealkiller says on Jul 22, 2005, 09:05:

Not all roads in estrato 6 are well kept, carrera 12, just in front of palos de moguer and bogota beer company is just dreadful, and yes la T is alright because well duh, its for pedestrians...
The lawsuits and all that is getting more common here, a couple of years ago i remember a guy suing a beer company for using hot girls with huge boobs on their street ads because it was distracting and caused him to crash his car...I dont even understand how courts even bother reading this crap... Last year in the UK a woman sued M&S and got a million pounds because she stepped on a grape and slipped...freaking hell, id sue her back for being clumsy and being a threat to all the customers doing their shopping.
It just erks me to see how people use laws to make profit...and no i am not bashing lawyers...i just think it can get to the point in which its just overly ridiculous!

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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BAQ says on Jul 22, 2005, 15:18:

HOLLYWOOD, which company are you using for the health coverage for your maid? Would like to check into their rates. Need to get some coverage for my maid.

As a side note for those reading this who do not live here in colombia, Almost everyone here who owns a decent home or large apartment as a maid

Semper Fidelis !

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Rubiazo says on Jul 22, 2005, 19:12:

my gf has the same deal. 60k a month covers her and her son.

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 22, 2005, 20:07:

Baq That, more than any other reason, is a very good reason to live in Col. I have a maid, and she comes only every couple weeks. That's really all I need her. For what I pay her for one day, I could have a maid every day in Colombia for two weeks.

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Gomezman5 says on Aug 11, 2005, 07:40:

posted in wrong forum posted in wrong thread

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miamimike says on Aug 11, 2005, 11:28:

Poco-You are correct on what you wrote about Medicare being extended to the General Population. Medicare, the Health Care System administered by the Feds for zUS Retirees, cost 3% to administer as compared to around 11% in overhead costs for the Private sector. Remember, top level adminstrators in Medicare can only Top out salary-wise to a GS-15, which probably would still be under $200,000 even at a step 10(highest $$ level for General Service Civilian Employee. Contrast that to these $3-20+ MILLION Salaries with Perks for CEOs of these private HMOs(worst healthcare)and Health Insurance Companies(pharmaceuticals included here to) such as Blue Cross, Aetna, Cigna and you soon see why these greedy fatcats have no interest in seeing a federally administered HealthCare Program as Medicare that would benefit the Populace (little worker bees and ormegas). I have seen many times where they say "Private Industry can do it cheaper and better" In an altruistic sense yes, but Greed soon steps in and many times, as in the CEOs of the healthcare comapnies, good ideas(private enterprise can always do it cheaper-the job) end up costing many times more then what the Government could do the Job for. A long time ago I worked for the US Army Corp of Engineers(federal agency) and our Agency had(new reagen law in the 80s) to bid against private industry. The Private Companies purposely low-balled the Bids, won and put us out of the Business. They held the low prices for 5 years(law requiered this) and then the Prices went Sky-High, much higher then what the Government could have performed the same service for. When I hear people blather on about "How bad and how lazy" Federal Employees and Agencies are I have to ask-"Where and When did you work for the Feds"? Many times the answer is Never! Yet the postulate on the matter like an expert troubleshooter. Too Funny.LOL

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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miamimike says on Aug 11, 2005, 11:44:

Poco BTW--extending Medicare to the uninsured 45,000,000 Americans would resolve the problem in the cheapest manner, if there is a cheap way to solve this dilemma. Really there isn't. Just have to pick the cheapest alternative and Medicare (extension of) would be it. One very Bad aspect of Medicare and that was a recent Drug Bill Attachment eneacted last year. It will give Medicare recipients Prescription drugs. The BAD in this bill is that it does not allow "Competitive Bidding" in other words, the Giant US Pharmaceutical Houses will be allowed to charge ANYTHING they want for pruduct and we taxpayers get it on the chin again. Election year payback!Bigtime! Many Senators/Congress wanted to design the bidding process like the VA Medical System(federal healthcare system only for military veterans)where it is Mandatory that ALL Drugs purchased for Veterans have to be purchased through Competitive bids. Sadly for the US Taxpayers, commonsense did not rule the Day that day! Pharmaceutical and Political Lobbyists ruled and won that one and we will pay for years for that error.The other sad aspect of this New drug program is that it is so CONFUSING many Medicare Seniors here are so confused by the Rules&Regs as to who qualifies many say they won't even enroll in it! It was purposely worded that way-such things do happen by accident here in the USA! Score a Big Win for the Major Pharmaceuticals and the little guy takes it in the shorts again. Bend over please and get out the KY Jelley!

Avatar Legend: Bush "If any of you Reporters are wondering, it was a Size 10"

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