representing poor people in this forum: why do most rich or people in the middle class feel superior than us?

kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:20:

MM Both my parents are lawyers. I went to a private school in Colombia. That may me Middle Class? If yes I don't think I am or my parents are stuck up. I think my parents are the most generous people in the word. And I have rich friends and they are fine too. Don't get me wrong but sometimes "poor" people have this inferiority complex that they think cos they are poor everybody is looking at them in certain way. Keep your head high you're better than anybody else and you will be fine I always said.

engage brain before opening mouth

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:21:

And I don't feel superior to anybody else just to my husband uhm. hehe

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:33:

Is it a cultural entitlement ?? Senora Gomez-as I am not Colombian I cannot attest to your question. Being from very humble roots here in the US I can. I used to think the same thing growing up here in the US--walking along the streets collecting discarded glass soda bottles for a 2 cent refund,delivering newspapers for $5 a week(7 days a week), going out in the country picking BlackBerries(moras)all day-getting scratched up by the blackberry thorns(espinas)and then selling to the rich people for .35/quart-- all my aunt(my mom died when I was 5) told me is that it was a lesson in building character and it was honest work and no matter in life what your work is as long as it was honest you could always walk with your head up high. True 50 years ago and true today.My situation has changed drastically from those times due to my hard work and perseverence but I have never forgotten those hard days. Many children here are SPOILED-given evrything and appreciate nothing as they never had to work hard for their clothing, education ect. Here in the USA it is a Parental Fault-cannot comment on Colombia.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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ARMacleod says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:34:

Ahh Princess. A bag of worms here!

There are three things in life that motivate people

MONEY - POWER - SEX

If you have the money then you have the ability to have the power and you can buy the sex. If you have the power then you easily get the money and the sex follows. It is easy to get the sex even if you don't have the money or the power.

The rich need the poor, (see post ‘The light side of Colombia) because without the poor they would have no one to have the power over. If all were rich they would not have the power over anyone.

My lady this a very big subject, but the simple answer is. We humans are not social beings. Again I say that we have the power to reason and the reasoning is.

If it is there I want it! If I do not get it I will be less of a person than you who has it, I therefore envy you who have it, if I can, I will take it from you, and if I cannot take it from you I will hate you.

I am a Human being, I have the power to reason.

I am therefore fallible, and the seven deadly sins are in me, I have the ability to keep them or some of them dormant, I have the power to let them all loose.

In short........ I am Human.

(Not me, I am a good person of course) (for the time being)?

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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VanMan says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:42:

poor, rich people in general Hey kat1, I think it's hard for "rich" people to think they're not arrogant or stuck up. People may act that way subconsciously and may not even know they are doing it. It's hard to tell yourself "Hey I'm an asshole, or i'm a bitch and I'm not really a nice person". It's easy to say "Hey I'm generous, and I hey I give to charity once/twice/three/etc times a year and I give to the guy at the corner of the street everytime I pass by him...I'm not stuck up!". Well, I've been up and down and back up the ladder in the economic terms of life and from my experiences PEOPLE in general (not all) have this sense of they are better than other people. Especially towards people who have less means in life. They are looked down upon. It's inconceivelable (honestly I haven't experienced the poverty levels Mr.s Gomez's has experienced) to understand what Mr.s Gomez's went through unless they have gone through it themself. It is similar to the whole Tsunami Aid. The Tsunami that occurred was horrendous, all the aid and funding that is being show is great, but was a natural disaster needed to help poor people in SouthEast Asia? What about the millions of people in India that have absolutely no money or some of the people in Africa. Anyways...I'm going on a tangent here. I think I've expressed my views:)

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:43:

Plight of the Immgrant Fruit pickers I can understand the plight of these poor folks also because when I was growing up in the late 50s and early 60s there were no Mexican migrant fruit pickers--the poor kids in my neighborhood got up early at dawn, stood on a streetcorner and an old truck like you describe that your father had came by and picked us up to take us to the fruit farms where we picked bushel baskets of apples, cherrys, pears and also when the Tomatoes were ripe we bent over all day in a hot field picking crates of tomatoes. Then at sunset the truck would haul us all back to the same streetcorner to drop us off. At the time I wished I was a latino or italian with dark skin because they didn't sunburn like me-I usually ended up with a bad sunburn looking like a red lobster with my fair complexion. Guess that is why I empathize with these poor migrants today who are abused by the farm owners--I truly walked a mile in their shoes and it wasn't any fun. Did keep me out of trouble and reform school-thats why my aunt sent me there everyday she relayed to me many years later.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:48:

is a sin to be rich? Are they all stuck up, asshole? do I always have to pretend not to have money so people like me.

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ARMacleod says on Feb 8, 2005, 13:55:

Not a sin to be rich But being poor is not a particularly great accolade!

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:09:

"But being poor is not a particularly great accolade"
I know that but sometimes poor people judge a rich without even knowing it ( I talk by experience)

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Save the Wildcats says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:31:

It doesn't matter what *they* think.... hold your head up high, look people in the eye and be proud of who you are. If someone's delusional enough to think they're morally superior to you because they happen to have more money, do you really care what they think anyway?

I do know it happens - but I find the idea of people thinking they're better than others due to financial status ludicrous. I'm pretty comfortable in life now - but I will never, ever forget where I came from. When I go to a store and I'm not dressed up the salespeople aren't very nice sometimes - inwardly, I just tell them they can kiss my a$$ and smile. Of course, when I'm in a long white lab coat they are very helpful. See how shallow people can be? Shrug it off and laugh at them if they are like that. Deep down inside, even they know they're insecure if they aren't nice to people with less money.

(Kat - I like you, rich or poor!)

Take care,

Kim

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VanMan says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:34:

being rich No I don't think you need to pretend you don't have money (if you are rich) for people to like you. I like you and I like your money even more. But, you may want to re-think your thoughts of calling yourself rich. You may think you're rich, but compared to someone else you may not be. *shrug*.

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Albatross says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:47:

Why ? Because we have money...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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ARMacleod says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:54:

What's rich? If you eat well, sleep well and have a good partner, if you can hold your head up with magnanimity and treat those about you as equals, if you can call yourself a man. Then you are indeed rich.

("Man embraces woman", Winston Churchill, 1942)


Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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Albatross says on Feb 8, 2005, 14:59:

More Words of Wisdom... "If you can hold your head up with magnanimity after being kicked in the nuts by a Clydesdale...
Then you can call yourself a man."

Bud Weiser - 1960

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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ARMacleod says on Feb 8, 2005, 15:03:

You need to have nuts In the first place.

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2005, 15:15:

I didn't call myself rich you did. and daagh I know there thousand and millions of people better off than me."If you eat well, sleep well and have a good partner, if you can hold your head up with magnanimity and treat those about you as equals, if you can call yourself a man. Then you are indeed rich". and I agree with JamesVH
savethewild cats: Thank you I like u too
sometimes I think the "poors" have more problems with the rich than the other way round

engage brain before opening mouth

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adrimm says on Feb 8, 2005, 16:21:

Unfortunate aspect of the culture I think it can change when some people leave, but depends on the person and where they go (and how isolated they are from other Colombians), and how long they have been away for.

I share your frustration with the obsession of appearances in Colombian culture. I know numerous cases of recent arrivals incurring huge debt because they must live up to their "standard", which is often beyond their means.

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Gary Hall says on Feb 8, 2005, 17:09:

Mrs.Gomez I was raised much like miamimike. My mother told me that it would make me a good man someday. She told me that when people think you are poor they treat you that way but if they think your rich they treat you that way.
I think I am OK and have a bit of money but when I went to Colombia I found that I truly enjoyed knowing I had it but did not need it. My fiance had no idea and she told me from the start that she did not need it she had her own. I respected that of her because he mother died and she raised three brothers and put all three through collage. Is she rich??? Well, it depends on how you look at it. Can you slap your back pocket and find friends or just money. I would rather have two good friends then a pocket full of money. They will be there for you in hard times and good times. Rich or poor. Hold your head high, be proud of what you know and know in your mind that it would be very difficult if a rich person lost everything and became poor right? You have been there and now you can tell others about it can't you? Good story and I am proud of you but turn you sadness to joy and move on with your life that YOU made.

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miamimike says on Feb 8, 2005, 17:21:

Good True Friends worth more then Anything Gary-in my humble opinion only, you are right about those good friends--they are priceless beyond any bank account. Your girlfriend should be commended for her good deeds towards her brothers. She is a millionaire by virtue of her generosity...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gary Hall says on Feb 8, 2005, 17:36:

miamimike Thank you. Being proud of her is an understatement. I am truly one of the lucky ones to have found someone that loves me for me. Money cannot buy that feeling no matter how much you have. Mrs.Gomez has learned a lession that is not taught in school. What she does with it will tell her if what she learned she retained.

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kernow62 says on Feb 8, 2005, 19:14:

I believe I know where Kat is coming from, my wife is an attorney and her father too, from Bogotá. They were far from rich, in fact compared to many middle-class folks from the US they had very little. To poor Colombians though they appeared to be very well off. Originally her family had a lot of wealth but that was generations ago, but I think the class distinction lingered on in the way they were brought up. However her father put himself through college while working full time. The family were very active with charities volunteering time & money and still are now that they are in the US.

I am sure this is not always the case and you will find just as many who look down on the poor, but my very limited experience has shown the fairly well to do Colombians quite generous. In fact I think it a trait of Colombians in general to be generous no matter if they are well off or dirt poor.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 9, 2005, 01:09:

Van (In response to your PM)
My parents arrived where they are today by working hard, and they decided to give their children what they never had, specially my Dad. Now when I very young I said 5 or 6 I remember having bad times because them there was when my dad was finishing his career and my mother started hers, you see They came to Bogotá with 4 kids and no jobs and they were very young, We used to lived on the coast of Colombia we have everything in that time we were practically the “rich� of the village. But to pursue their carers my parents sold everything including the house, the person that bought the house was my dad stepfather and he never paid the money to my dad. They were young and naïve, they came to Bogotá for a better future for the kids, my grandfather didn’t used to talk to my mum in that time because he never approve my mum marrying my dad until later. As I told you I remembered having but times no as bad as Mrs Gomes of course, By the age of 11 or 12 when my parents finished they careers specially my dad everything started to changed, maybe my dad gave us good education and thing to compensate for what we miss when we were younger. Now what I am trying to said is I don’t have to apologised for my parents giving me a better live, they work hard for it an I appreciate that. I know there are people less fortunate than me. When I said my dad is generous I mean it I have uncles that don’t give a toss about anybody. And when I said generous I just don’t talk about money. I am lucky to married a “well off guy� He is a very hardworking man, I have to kids but I don’t want them to grow up and feeling guilty because they were born well off. Nor I want them to grow spoilt. The excuse of the “poor� is wait that when they don’t have money anymore they are going to suffer, well I am giving my kids a good education so they can defend themselves if something happens in the future, they said education is the best gift you can give to your kids. When I came to England I didn’t know anybody I want to make friends but because I married a “I don’t like to said rich� cos we’re no millionaire but well off guy some people straight way labelled me “snobbish, stuck up with out giving me the opportunity to know them first. I sent my kids to the local school and my son had a hard time with the boys, they didn’t want to know him Cos they looked at him like the rich kid who can’t play football, rugby cos he is too rich to get dirty, he didn’t like those sports and that’s it. . Fortunated he met another boy, now this one really was RICH and they get on fine but this boy had the same problems as my son they use to call him Richi rich. When they finished primary school I decided to send my kids to a better school so the kids were in the same background of my kids so they didn’t had to have the same problems like in primary school everybody would be equal in question of money, nobody feeling more or less than the others and! Guess what he is very happy he have a lot of friend, he doesn’t have to hide his toys or belonging when a friend comes home feeling that his friend is going to feel jealous and hate him for being fortunate, Sorry but that is the sad truth.
Sorry Everybody my post is to long . Just I have to explain myself.

engage brain before opening mouth

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N2Aquatix says on Feb 9, 2005, 01:29:

Money The measure of a person is gauged by what they do with what they've been given.

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Lionheart says on Feb 9, 2005, 01:38:

point well made Kat I have a question for you, since you have experienced two different cultures. I lived in my first 8 years in the US military world, mainly traveling between the USA and Germany is what I remember. My mother then married a German, and I was tossed into a weird world. I feel for your son, at the time I knew no German, and I had no clue what soccer was, deadly. I could have been a Martian. Coming from the Army all I knew about status was that a Master Sargent (my grandfather) was treated with respect.

Over the years I learned the German ways of life, and later of the rest of Europe. In Europe you have two kinds of levels you mingle with, the social level, and the social status. With level I mean you are either working class, middle class, or upper class. Then you have the social status, which is the tough part to live up to, at least in Germany. I am not sure about England. With the status you receive titles, and you address a person with these titles. The higher the status, the more titles you have. The more important a title is, the more you are expected to live up to it socially. So as a Univerity Professor in Germany (caps on purpose) you are at the top of the social status ladder, equal to a doctor, dentist, etc, but financially you are more middle class. The social obligations involved can be a financial disaster long-term, and there is no way out. This is something almost non-existent in the USA.

I am curious if the same exists in Colombia, especially with the strong European/Spanish heritage. I know it has an influence in life in Chile. Maybe you can compare it better since you live in England now, Kat, and you have mentioned the social differences. Or for this matter, I am asking all who moved to Europe.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Feb 9, 2005, 02:47:

Lionheart
In Colombia is no much about if you have a title is from which university you have that title, them you will have your status. saying that my mum said she have friends that have "posh title job but with poor salaries but they have to live up to that status which is difficult with the salary. In colombia they called everybody Doctor doesn't matter if you are dentis,lawyer,accountant. Here in England there are social levels not as noticiable as in Colombia, Example my husband is middle class I ask why they said because he went to private school then university,and all his family are profesionals. and because he speak posh (I called it the BBC english).He went to study quemist,English literatura, and bussiness management and now he own his own bussiness,but he always been adress as Mr xx. no title. About the status I think only if you are a duque or a princess I think you have to live up to that title.Now one of my friend husband is an Accountant he owns a big Bussines he is a millionaire I can say that, he lives close to me, his kid went to the same school as my kids the only difference is he got loads of money. I don't know in which level to put him Upper Class? but I think Upper class here in England is the ones with the Royal Titles. I dunno Kernow can explain me this.

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viewpoint says on Feb 9, 2005, 03:02:

I find this to be an interesting thread. I especially have enjoyed Kat's posts are she demonstrates that she has reached a level of marurity, acceptance and understanding that most of us never find in our lifetime.

Wealth (in of itself) is not a divider (or maker) of people or classes. Money does not insure or buy happeness or love but rather in it's broader forms it comes with very hard work, responsibility, focus, disipline and skills. Without continuing hard work, responsibility, focus, disipline and skills you would soon be separated from your wealth as it will move to stronger hands.

True with wealth you can "buy" choices but not happiness but the truth is if you have great wealth you have no personal time to do anything that you may choose. You time is consumed managing your wealth and your personal life suffers. It's easy to call wealthy people "BAD and UNCARING" as well as many other bad names as they are the least represented people on this forum or in our daily lifes as there are less of them than there are of us. Our politians want to tax them to death because they are so few that their votes don't determine an election.

Quality people with "real wealth" (inside and out) don't show it or flaunt it or wear it or drive it or fly it or put other peoples down by pushing their wealth in their faces but rather they share it. Anything more than putting a roof over our heads, food on the table, clothes on your back, maybe some transportation and the money to make some reasonable choices in life is excess to our needs. It doesn't mean we shouldn't work for more but on the other hand it does mean that we should find fault in those that do.

Remember the old Kenny Roger's song "The Gambler" there will be plenty of time for counting when the game is done!!!!!!!!!!!! How true in our personal and business lives.

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viewpoint says on Feb 9, 2005, 03:33:

JamesVH YOUR QUOTE:
"There are three things in life that motivate people MONEY - POWER - SEX
If you have the money then you have the ability to have the power and you can buy the sex. If you have the power then you easily get the money and the sex follows. It is easy to get the sex even if you don't have the money or the power.

The rich need the poor, (see post ‘The light side of Colombia) because without the poor they would have no one to have the power over. If all were rich they would not have the power over anyone."

Dear James: Maybe you can sell that BS to children but not to grown mature adults.

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lpdiver says on Feb 9, 2005, 03:39:

James Love motivates me. I have little money, no power, and well as for sex my Colombian wife could have me jumping through hoops for that, but she gives it freely and abundantly.

T

"cook some rice!"

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lpdiver says on Feb 9, 2005, 03:42:

Hey Mike I used to volunteer to go pick pears from the orphanage at age five. That was in Houston and I don't remember any Mexicans. That would have been about 1962. Now you have really got me wondering.

Tony

"cook some rice!"

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kernow62 says on Feb 9, 2005, 04:54:

Lionherart, in England you can have no money and be upper class and you can be working class and have loads of money. To outsiders this makes no sense, the the English this is normal. You could be a billionaire rock star but if you came from Liverpool instead of The Wirral you will be considered working class. The upper class will perhaps sneer behind his back despite the fact he can buy them many times over and the working class will still consider him one of the lads when he pops in the local for a pint.

Working class people are very proud of their roots, even when they make it big they like to proudly exclaim "I was very working class in those early days". Remember the Monty Python skit about living in a shoebox in the middle of the road?

Whole books have been written on the English class system, and still to an outsider it is like explaining Cricket.

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 9, 2005, 08:38:

Tony, little money, no power and lots of sex works for me too. We're living the Elmo lifestyle.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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lpdiver says on Feb 9, 2005, 10:29:

JeJeJe However, I draw the line at burro's.

TP

"cook some rice!"

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vanwely says on Feb 9, 2005, 10:46:

Tony Montana and Tevya Isnt this quote from SCARFACE??

If you have the money then you have the ability to have the power and you can buy the sex

And this one is from "Fiddler on the Roof"

"But being poor is not a particularly great accolade (honor)"



Colombia - Tierra Querida

Colombia - Tierra Querida

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ARMacleod says on Feb 9, 2005, 11:20:

vanwelly They must have come from somewhere, I am too thick to have made them up myself. Then again, everything that I say or write is something that I have heard somewhere along the road of life. Including this.

But to continue, The following I have probably heard from somewhere else. let me know if you know where. WTF is Scarface by the way? you don't mean Utopiacowboy do you? I read a lot of his literary genius. And also 10 Gold Bloody fish or whatever his name was.

Back to the thread. (no offense intended )

The 'Nuevo Riche' are the ones to beware of. The old class of the landed gentry are generally really nice people and dont care where a person comes from or how much money he has. these are the people who put the Great into the Great Britain.

The 'Nuevo Riche' (spelling) generally are upstarts. They are more likely to look down their noses at those who are 'working class'. It's a pseudo snob thing. Never bothers me.

As I have said, they are possibly the ones who struggled to make as much as they could and subsequently look down on those who did not 'make it'. Yet. If they subsequently 'make it' they will be shown more friendliness, but if they make too much more its back to the envious resentment thing.

Me personally, in spite of my Scottish accent, have no need to try to appropriate great riches. I have blown everything that I ever had and now will have to rely my pension. What I do not need from that I will give to all of my kids.

When I was in Bogota last year, my novia kept reprimanding me for handing out money to everyone that I saw begging. What is that all about. Alms for the poor, I know that she is a good catholic, but her halo slipped a bit over that particular subject.

Anyway. There are no pockets in a shroud.

I shall just keep enough from the sale of my house here to have my kidneys kick started occasionally.

I have no real dislike of anyone in particular, rich or poor.

And as Someone once said of the inhabitants of Gomorrah "Soddem"

Being of unsound mind and dubious disposition, I cannot be held legally liable for any indiscretions."¡El diablo me hizo hacerlo!" But don't worry, be happy.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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ReinaDeLa Baile says on Feb 9, 2005, 18:27:

now that you mention it Mrs. G. ...
now that you mention it Mrs. G. ...

You know, for some time now I have been feeling similarly. I need to just vent and get it off of my chest, you know. Since there is nothing on my chest anyway, when something sits there too long, I get nervous.

So, as I was saying, I need to vent as well. Thank you in advance kind lady for letting me do so and here on your very own personal "tema."

After much deliberation, the truth is ... well, I just don't know exactly how to say it, but ... I feel so condescneded to, by Elmo's Burra. I mean, she acts like she is the only Chiquito in town. Who is she kidding anyway? That BeeYachay needs to Get. A. Life.

Don't you think?

Anyway, once the Burro gets flown to New York, she starts acting funny.

You DID know that Elmo works the Bronx zoo, so he can keep an eye on her, right?

Besitos Blancos y Fuefosos a mi querida Senora G,

desde la Dona R.

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william_andrew_channell says on Feb 10, 2005, 17:44:

I personally don't like upper class rich folks. Never have, never will. I grew up in a humble family, my dad worked in a factory and my mom stayed home. I remember feeling like crap when the kids at school would make fun of my non brand name shoes and clothes. Also the fact that I would repeat the same clothes every 2-3 days. Not having money to go to the movies or hearing the other kids talk about their thousands of dollars in Xmas presents when I got cheap clothes, maybe a toy or two and a stocking full of pendejadas from the Dollar Tree.

That's one thing that I've noticed here in Colombia is that it's just like the US, just more extreme. Lower class people have more fun too. However, when people here see a gringo they assume that they're some rich tourist with dollars.

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