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Unbelievable. For rent in Barranquilla: 500 dollars to enter Panama!

A new business in Barranquilla.
If a Colombian wants to enter Panama to look for a work and a better life there, he has to show to possess at least 500 USD at the entry.
There is a guy in Barranquilla who rents USD to show the immigration in Panama. The cost is 150 USD.

By robi666 on Feb 24, 2008, 08:57 in Friendly Talkzone.

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 09:00:

Poor people and sharks always ready to make their profits!

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Gator says on Feb 24, 2008, 09:24:

I believe this has been in effect for sometime. Also needed is a return airline ticket to clear Panamanian immigration at the airport

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 09:27:

Yes Gator, the unbelievable part is that there are someone renting out dollars..

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 09:49:

I think that was increased from $300, maybe a year ago. A friend from Bogatá told me they accepted credit cards in lieu of the cash, when he was here last time. Maybe that shark could bolster his income with phony credit cards.

All of the immigration regulations are in a state of flux, I had read that tourist visa will now cost $50 (up from $15?), and the duration was reduced from 90 to 30 days.

I think that a Colombian needs a current police report to enter the country.

The snowbirds are not very happy about all this. The new regualtions are in the legislature and the new law is promised in the very near future.

pedro says on Feb 24, 2008, 10:04:

The Panama tourist visa was $5 per person, I'm pretty sure.

¡save pow wow!

bickerss says on Feb 24, 2008, 10:07:

yeah, I paid 5 usd each time I went there (last time apr 07) - I hope its not now 50????. My colombian GF came over and she had to have 500 usd to show. She didnt need a police report.

guacharaca says on Feb 24, 2008, 10:25:

I am curious what is required for collaterol and fees for the US $500?

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 11:21:

You might be right, pedro. I have a multi-entry visa and pass immigration with citizens, so I have not had to pay it for a while. But I do remember that there was never any sign or direction. You had to stand in the line and wait to be told that you had to go back and get the damned thing.

Their reasoning is that you must be able to show that you are not indigente, and can afford to live here, for some period of time.

I think the police report thing is law, but maybe is only their ace-in-the hole if they don't like your looks.

But it really proves little. A young friend returned from Cali last year, and he had the $500, although I think he had the whole family borrowing to raise it. The next day he sent it back.

I am not sure if the $50 visa is real yet, or was only part of their brainstorming.

The whole thing should be published soon.
__________________________________________________________________

I just went to migracion website http://www.migracion.gob.pa/eng/index.php and found:

AS OF TODAY:

Tourist Visa (but later it says, do not need a VISA, but they are as screwed up as Hogan's goat)

Since May 22nd 2007, the Tourist Visa is valid for 30 days extendable to 60 days.

Tourist Card: The citizens from countries that are allowed to travel to Panama with a tourist card do not need a visa, they only have to buy a tourist card within the airline, which cost is $5.00, fill it out it with the requested information and present it along with the passport when entering Panama. From here originates the importance of the migratory classification established by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If the person is a citizen from a country which is required to hold a stamped visa or a tourist card to come into Panama, this means that the person has two options, which are: to apply for a visa before the Panamanian Consulate within his country and travel with the stamped visa on his passport, or to buy the tourist card from the airline or at his arrival at the country. If the person is a citizen from a country which is classified as one that requires a stamped visa, it has no other option than to previously request a stamped visa at the Panamanian Consulate before travelling to Panama, and if the person is a citizen from a country that requires an authorized visa, the visa application requires the previous authorization of the National Directorate of Immigration and Naturalization. In all cases, it is required to comply with all the requirements to come into the country, (economic solvency, passport with a six month minimum validity and return ticket for his country.

DodgerDogs says on Feb 24, 2008, 11:29:

The $500 law for Colombians has been in efect for the last 4years.
There is a older bald headed man that changes money at Cortez in Baq who loans at $ 500
for $ 800 return. He has connections with all the airport employees and DAS at Cortez.
And he knows your returrn flight and keeps a photo copy of your cedula.
He does not give falzo pesos, and his exchange rate is better than casa cambios.
Next time one of you is in Baq airport look for him he is always in the middle between Copa and Avianca as they are Direct across from each other.
He is easy to spot he is about 6' and bald and weighs about 230 lbs.......

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 11:49:

I must have dreamed the $300. I asked my friend from Cali, and he says has been $500 as long as he remembers.

But, $800 cost to use 500, maybe for a couple weeks! That is terrible.

vicshere says on Feb 24, 2008, 11:56:

hey rob you seemed surprised...remember this is Colombia the same Colombia that allows people to bride a cops or government agents ...... the guy renting out money has the same right as one who pays off a cop..don't you agree...I say good for him...and no different than the guy lending out money at 10 points per month....its all the same....this is Colombia

listo

lpdiver says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:09:

Hmmm makes one wonder. You have to pay three hundred and you need five hundred to enter. Just how are these "tourists" earning their money whilst in Panama? Hmmm?

t

"cook some rice!"

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:09:

True, this is Colombia... and sad in a way.
I was just surprised about the bizarre particular business... you see a need and you find a shark taking advantage of that.

It is not the same bribe a cop or be a loan shark: the guy renting out money deserve a bullet in his head, in my book.

lpdiver, there are more and better paid legal jobs in Panama than on the Colombian coast.

vicshere says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:11:

come on rob both are just as illegal as the other

listo

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:12:

vic, don't think that Colombia has an exclusive license for the bribery, or the usury.

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:14:

Yes, both are illegal. But bribing a cop to avoid a driving fine it's not the same of taking advantage of poor people. I hope that you can see the difference.

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:18:

lpdiver, there is a thriving business here, but they hire Colombianas "almost" exclusively.

vicshere says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:18:

not at all sloop
poor people my ass... there are no poor people that can travel to Panama.....if they can travel they have some money... in Colombia there is a lot of poor attitude and poor mentality

listo

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:27:

I know Colombians who got to Panama to work on construction. They are paid less than Panamanians but better that to stay in Barranquilla where there is not enough work for everybody.
They make a miserable life away from their dear ones, hiding from the immigration police, get their money and send it to their family to make them survive and pay the loan sharks who gave them the money to travel.

Most of the "presta diario" business in Barranquilla and Santa Marta is controlled by ex AUC and the new groups, using and multiplying their blood money.

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 12:29:

I know several poor Colombians here, earning $250-300 per month, as waiters or security.They are probably mostly illegals, who will have to pay a multa to get out of the country. And, if they can't pay?

One is security guard across the street, and I am sure he earns almost nothing. He is trying to save a little money to get back to his family in Medellin.

I suspect he is illegal because is quite expenive and time consuming to get residency. Most all employers must have, at least, 90% Panamanian workers, and unemployment is high here also.

I have heard if they arrive illegally, or caught without papers, there is a special jail where they keep them until they can be deported, and they are deporting many. If they have no money I guess the government pays the airfare.

Buongone says on Feb 24, 2008, 16:10:

My GF join me in Panama ovr the holidays. She came from Cali. Had to have the $500. A police report. And also had to have a yellow fever shot. Went through the line once. Then the DAS agent said she needed the return ticket to show proof. She had an electronic ticket. Had to get in line again. And go get the printed return ticket to show. She said they counted out the $500 right in front of her. Needless to say, she was pissed.

Medellin Traveler says on Feb 24, 2008, 17:04:

At the end of the day, there wouldn't be this type of business if there wasn't a demand for this type of business. It seems, some people definitely need to use these types of services.

I don't know why people are shocked, this chit was happening in the US in the early days, not as common today.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

miamimike says on Feb 24, 2008, 17:57:

Here in Miami, they "Borrow" Marriage to a US Citizenship for a couple years for $15,000 ,,,going business

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." GW Bush

sloopskipper says on Feb 24, 2008, 18:32:

Yeah Buongone, and they brag about the tourism here, while doing their best to kill it. They're totally clueless, but with a singer as director of tourism . . . .

Wait until the new law comes down. I would not be surprised to see that $5 tourist card (which was reduced from 90 days to 30) increase to a $50 tourist visa as was reported in La Prensa.

There was a lot of press about the the vaccinations, but never heard anything final, and had seen anything before of people being asked for those police reports (and they are supposed to be current, 30 days or less).

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 18:48:

"At the end of the day, there wouldn't be this type of business if there wasn't a demand for this type of business. It seems, some people definitely need to use these types of services.

I don't know why people are shocked, this chit was happening in the US in the early days, not as common today."

Very superficial position, but I won't venture out in a debate on this.

What I know, it is that I don't understand why some sort of Chavez did not come out yet from all the shit of the coast. But, I believe, we still have time to see it in the near future...

Who'll win the race between the city of the interior building up enough prosperity to drag the rest of the country and the malcontent of the poor building up is not decided yet...

jorgegdiaz says on Feb 24, 2008, 19:33:

When I was student in the US and had to show inmigration proof I had the funds (16k) to cover my studies, I asked my friends to lend me their cash, put it in my account, got a letter from the bank, then I returned the money to them. Thank God they didn´t want the % they´re asking in B/quilla.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

pedro says on Feb 24, 2008, 19:44:

It would be interesting to know what their default rate is on the $500 packets lent.

You can't be sure it's a ridiculous rate, as there's a possibility that the lenders are getting ripped off regularly.

I would not want to be in that lending business, not even for a $150 premium. The amount of huevonadas you're opening yourself up to, it's not worth it.

However I'm surprised that among extended family they can't come up with that cash. Why is there even the demand for such a service?

¡save pow wow!

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 19:57:

Pedro, 90% of the families living in south Barranquilla would not be able to come up with the fourth part of it.

A loan shark has got many ways to be sure about his money coming back.
First of all, you don't even get to use his services if you're not referenced by a well known person, who will be co-responsible of the payment of the rates. We are talking about a loan at 10% and more per month, when maximum legal interest in Colombia is around 2% per month.
Second, they got signed title of whatever poor property you posses.
Third, they get a paper that entitled them to get money directly from your employeer.
Fourth, they are all very connected with (ex) AUC and new groups.

robi666 says on Feb 24, 2008, 20:06:

I know a guy in Barranquilla who gave 1 million to 70 workers of the same company. He gets 7 millions of interests each month.
Most of that money has been spent on drinks and parties and providing food and clothes to the numerous clandestine families of those workers... that's la costa y los costenos.

vicshere says on Feb 25, 2008, 05:09:

Most of that money has been spent on drinks and parties

at 10% per month I feel no pity for these people

listo

El Polo says on Feb 25, 2008, 06:21:

The focus of this arguement should be about how incorrect this is, not how the money is being spent.... Dont feed into stereotypes.

vicshere says on Feb 25, 2008, 06:24:

question
why is it that a Colombian (or any other 3rd world country ) will travel to a foreign country and clean crappers and in Colombia they wouldn't clean their own crapper? and Why would the same person pay 150/500 to go clean crappers?

listo

robi666 says on Feb 25, 2008, 06:29:

Perfectly true El Polo, but Vic seems to have an hard on...
Vic, you may not feel sorry for this people, but I tell you that this is not completely their fault.

A poor barrio of the coast is not exactly where you want to be born or where you want to raise your children.
I did not choose to be born in Italy, nor to have the means to attend a university.

Now, we do not have to start a debate about why the coast is the coast, talking about wealthy family, politic, paracos...

The "Presta diario" business is kept in the hands of AUC and new groups. Money is dirty money. Those people have no scruple.

robi666 says on Feb 25, 2008, 06:31:

Vic, there are better paid jobs and more open position in Panama.
What else?

vicshere says on Feb 25, 2008, 06:37:

hard on...usually not a problem
but pity for people who don't give a crap about themselves nawww...I gave that up after the second year of living here...I used to feel sorry but not any more

listo

sloopskipper says on Feb 25, 2008, 07:00:

It is difficult for me not to feel empathy, if not sympathy, for those born into crushing poverty, without the skills needed to manage their lives or, honestly, move forward.

robi666 says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:20:

I have to say that I do understand Vic... and try to fight that feeling.
Some people are impossible to help. I had some bad experiences myself, being too kind.
They are just dishonest and will always be.

So, I am focusing in helping children, they probably have a chance to be different...

vicshere says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:24:

the children have no fault....its the adults fault

listo

El Polo says on Feb 25, 2008, 10:26:

Is this generalization for everyone in colombia, the costeño or just everyone you have been dealing with to this point? minus the kids

robi666 says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:19:

Well, I have to be sincere, El Polo, I just can talk about my experiences in Medellin, Barranquilla and Santa Marta.

Generally speaking, there is a big difference between paisas and costenos when it comes to culture of work.
Also, paisas tend to be more reliable.
My experiences with costenos have been so bad to an extent that needing to have a work done at my finca, I don't even loose time interviewing people from the coast and I bring people from Medellin.
It seems to cost more, ma lo barato sale caro.

Now, it is just a generalization of course. I have costenos working in my finca, but it took time to find the right ones.

The worse people I had to deal with, they are my family from south Barranquilla. Again, not everyone, not my hard worker mother in law.
I would not trust my wife's uncles, cousins and friends if they were the last persons on earth.
I realized fast that you have to keep distance, as a matter of survive.

robi666 says on Feb 25, 2008, 15:24:

Now, if i have to go out to party, costenos would be my first choice, toda la vida.

jorgegdiaz says on Feb 26, 2008, 04:32:

Sadly that´s true Robi. Costeños are the lazyness-became-real cliche.

But I don´t feel sorry for them either. In the US I met a bunch of people deep s**** in debt, kept spending $ going out, designer clothes, repossesed car, you get the idea. Tax return came and guess what? they booked a cruise to the Bahamas, just to find out that didn´t have the $ for the airfare to get to the port !!

Some people won´t ever learn.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

tomtom33 says on Feb 26, 2008, 04:37:

Good thing they never got to the boat. They couldn't have paid their bar tab.

vicshere says on Feb 26, 2008, 05:07:

here's an couple of example that happened to me...when I had my restaurant a couple years back you wouldn't believe the problems I had trying to find help to work in the kitchen and on the floor.....people who seemed qualified would show up for 2 days then never come back not even for the pay....people would be late even after a warning.....as if their job didn't matter....I was paying the legal minimum wage at the time with all the legal add ons
here's another good one I wrote about it before
I was digging my trenches for my sewers inside my lot.....as I don't have the back anymore to swing a pick I got my brother in law to find me a couple of young guys with good backs...well he found me 2 one guys was ok...the other guy worked till about lunch time and then came to me and said that the work was to hard and I didn't pay enough....at the time I was paying 15,000 per day which was the going rate for labor...anyway this guys said it was too tough and that he was going to the bus station the next day and go back to the country and work for his cousin on the farm....I asked him if the farm work wasn't as hard as digging....he told ....that work on cocaine was a bit hard but the pay was 1,000,000 per month so he was off....no wonder we cant win against drugs

listo

El Polo says on Feb 26, 2008, 06:01:

Robi-The typical arguement is that poor people are not to be trusted since, well, they dont have money, however the flip side of that arguement is that people with less, tend to value to the simpler things in life ie all the things rich people take for granted, I am by no means romantizing anything associated with being poor, and I am very familiar with how frustrating things can be at times, dealing with costeños, no secret. However generalization are generalizations; without getting too personal, my mums side of the family are generally hard-working family oriented people, my dads side of the family is the complete opposite and not to be trusted, both families live in the same pueblo.

Jorge Diaz the stereotypical Costeño is non-materialistic.

Colombiche says on Feb 26, 2008, 06:45:

I wonder how much of a better life colombians can find in another third world country like Panama?

My cousin couldn't get the canadian visa so she left Bogota, went to Trinidad and Tobago, then Panama, back to Trinidad and is now going back to Bogota because she is making about the same $$ she made back home except that the expenses are higher. She is also dealing with all the same crap, sexual harrassment etc etc. What's this better life people talk about? I understand if you get into the US and Canada you might give yourself a boost, but Panama.. Ecuador... or some Caribbean banana republic?

She has a professional education by the way, in the tourism sector.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

rocinante says on Feb 26, 2008, 13:07:

Colombianas don't all stay in Panamá. Most sneak from there to Costa Rica and make the big bucks in the casas from the gringo tourists. Where do you think all the sex tourists get the idea to come to Colombia? They get their first taste in CR and then do some research and then "go to the source". The Colombianas coyote in to San Jose from Panamá, work for a handful of months and pay the fine when they leave Panmamá. They willingly pay all the fees because the money they make is astronomical compared to what they can make doing the same thing in Colombia. This is no big secret.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008