Rebutal from Boyaca

tomtom33 says on Mar 19, 2008, 12:42:

"The problem is that the railroads are just not used very much."

Exactly. There is no cabal of Colombian automakers lobbying to stop railroads.

BTW, I like my food with all kinds of chemicals and preservatives. Better living through chemistry.

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 19, 2008, 12:43:

Hey Bill ... thanks for chiming in.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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poco says on Mar 19, 2008, 16:09:

Quote: Food here certainly is healthier than in the USA. Where I live buying organic is the only option.

Someone has made an ENTIRE post that matches what I think !!!

Club me:


Do you believe the statement - Boyacá, known as the food basket of Colombia -
Is accurate?

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Bill Turley says on Mar 19, 2008, 16:37:

I don't know about the grain production in the original post. I do Know that Boyaca produces A LOT of Potatoes and onions. The first time I went to Laguna de Tota I was intrigued by the large green fields around the end of the lake, all onions. My neighbors grow corn, potatoes, onions, beans, have a few cows, some chickens running loose, and have a patch of sugar cane. There is a mill in town to grind the corn into flour, and there are several sugar cane mills to process sugar. The area produces quajada in quantity sufficent to justify a second market just for that comondity.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 19, 2008, 21:43:

I would have thought the Meta would be the "food basket" of Colombia. Cattle, dairy, rice, fruit, chickens, cane (sugar), etc.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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poco says on Mar 19, 2008, 22:40:

Quote: I would have thought the Meta would be the "food basket" of Colombia. Cattle, dairy, rice, fruit, chickens, cane (sugar), etc.

Haven’t seen that department,, kind of close to FARC held territory,, but maybe.

I would have thought FOOD BASKET might be the valley running from Cali, up to Medellin but what department? The bus travels for at least one hour through Valle del Cauca. There are enormous sugar cane fields as far as he eye can see. The stacks of distant cane processing plants can be seen with plumes of vapor. Other crops like corn, cotton, grapes papaya, are common. The area around Armenia, Pereira has pineapple, papaya, grapes and coffee.

Cattle ranches are very common, I believe Colombia has at least one cow breed with legs on one side longer to allow them to take a leak while standing on a hill side and not get their leg wet. Cows have the right of way.


I agree the nearer the supply the better but SOME state (department) must be the equal of a Food Basket.

Lots of fruit is shipped North so I'm nominating Valle del Cauca until further proof is presented.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Bill Turley says on Mar 20, 2008, 09:04:

The big thing about Boyaca is the variety of terrain and therefor the variety of produce. I think that Meta and the other Llanos Department produce a lot more beef than Boyaca. I really think that as I am stuck behind several old trucks filled with Cebu on the way to Bogota. One of the 2 main roads from the Llanos is the road I need to take to Bogota. Boyaca is a funny shaped Department with tongues extending into the Llanos, The Rio Magdeline and to El Cucuy. The soil is generally fertile if a bit cold in places. (Perfect for potatoes) Geologically it was a lake and swamp. Then came the Tectonic activity which changed the black limestone into places almost unique in the world, Deposits of Emeralds. The soil on my finca grows things rapidly, a 3 year old tree is about 6 meters tall for example. Many areas produce fish ( Somondoco for example), Citrus and corn. Poultry and pork are also produced in quantity. These are supported by the corn production. While the Valle de Cauca produces more sugar, a lot of panela comes from Boyaca. Mora, Maracuya, pineapples, guavas , bananas and platains are also produces. If you have ever has sagu, that comes from Boyaca.
Again if you want to really see this side of Colombia come for a visit, it is only 3 hours from Bogota.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 20, 2008, 16:20:

Good info Mr. Turley.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 20, 2008, 17:05:

I'm a huge believer in independent small to medium, private-owned farms as the backbone of a healthy, sustainable countryside anywhere in the world. I see it as the rural equivalent of a strong. viable middle class in the cities: the teachers, the nurses, the carpenters, the shopkeepers, the merchants, the engineers, the lawyers, the doctors. people who can support themselves and perhaps a little more, a little left over to sell locally, to buy locally.

El Valle del Cauca has perfect conditions to produce all major foodstuffs in Colombia; it has all the climates and should be able to produce locally 90% of al required food in the area. At least. Unless uribe and his paraco friends decide to grow African Oill Palm for exportation purposes to provide jobs for people who already have jobs...to grow food for themselves and for sale in farmers' markets. Unless they are forced to leave their farms so that the plantation economy can take over and they can become beggars and thieves in Cali.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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billyb says on Mar 20, 2008, 17:39:

Who put vinegar in Desi's coffee?

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poco says on Mar 20, 2008, 18:13:

Quote: Who put vinegar in Desi's coffee?

That's a possibility. The palm oil plantation is her latest area of interest. I have not researched all sides of the argument. I think the political agenda takes away from the message.

Personally I see no problem with starting a palm oil business with folks living in the area. I suspect they will have some choice in whether to leave or not.

Wouldn't the Palm oil business serve as a basis for relatively simple things like better water systems or electricity?

Is there NO relocation? how far? across the street? non-fertile land?

From what I've seen there are small towns (100 to 1000 persons) near large ranches. I see people with small plots or houses. They raise food like chickens, pigs, fruit, goats etc.

Hilltop Farm


Many work on the farms. There is commerce, small stores, water system (wells and aquifers), most have some paved streets.

I see equipment repair shops with metal fabrication capabilities. Uribe doesn’t own them and neither does the rancher.

I guess nothing much has been said except HERE IS THE PROBLEM but in all fairness I haven't looked for the other side of the story.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 20, 2008, 18:40:

Where the heck is Sr. Tertius? He's so much better at saying what I mean. "How did you feel if you were forced at gunpoint leave your home and then offered an employment at slave wages working as a gardener at the home you owned?
(that's the political agenda)
Palm oil is also BAD for you, It's cheap, it's abundant, it's everywhere, in your pop corn, on your fries, in your peanut butter, It's POISON. (Saturated fats , clogs your arteries, eventually kills you)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Portena says on Mar 20, 2008, 18:44:

Nice photo, Poco.

I feel better! I can smile at it now, I feel better. Ohhhh, better! Gnarls Barkley

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poco says on Mar 20, 2008, 20:11:

Quote: (that's the political agenda)

No,, this is the statement that tends to be an agenda).

---- Unless uribe and his paraco friends decide to grow African Oill Palm -----

So,, maybe the real problem is the liberal faction and the fact that they, the liberals, receive money from the FARC to obtain political office and are trying to divert attention.

(this has continued for 50 years)

So,, I'd rather be presented with a problem and what is being done to arrive at a solution rather than a complete halt.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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poco says on Mar 20, 2008, 20:31:

Quote: Palm oil is good for you unless it hits a certain temperature THEN it turns to poison. If they are processing it with heat Desi is right.

No,, I don't think so BUT,,, this kind of statment makes other ideas seem,, silly? Kind of like crying wolf.

One of the REAL problems:
PALM OIL GROWERS are orangutan killers and heart disease promoters..

Now,, I guess they are killing poor Colombians.

OH, NO that raper of the planet,, Paul Neuman is screwing us !!!! OMG: a must read.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/palm-oil-fights-back/

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

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tomtom33 says on Mar 21, 2008, 03:29:

I like small farms, too. I just can't see subsidizing them. If they cannot be economically viable on their own, let them die.

Note: My grandfather lost 2 farms in North Dakota to the dust bowl.

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Bill Turley says on Mar 22, 2008, 08:06:

I have no doubt that the farm subsidies for large operations are directly in conflict with the original intent of the program. I think farm subsidies should be limited to small operations such as mom and pop farms. Of course this only applies to the US, as they don't exist here.
In Colombia it is a matter of survival for the small landholders to farm there plots of land. Incidently "good Roads" is a laugh. in Boyaca approximately 60% of the population has NO road access. When I drive to my finca from Sisga there are many paths climbing the mountains. I had thought they were water courses until I learned their real nature.

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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tomtom33 says on Mar 22, 2008, 08:23:

Why should mom and pop farms be subsidized? And, if they should, maybe we should subsidize small business as well.

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Bill Turley says on Mar 22, 2008, 11:06:

Small farms are being threatened by the huge argoconglomerates. While large machines are feasable for a farm with thousands of acres of grain, the 2 or 300 acre man can't afford them. The big conglomerates are the source of the high concentrations of hormones, chemicals etc in the food supply. The small farms are closer to organic in concept,if not actual practice. The original farm subsidies were to help the small guy allow fields to lie fallow, to afford new equipment and to pioneer new teechni

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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Bill Turley says on Mar 22, 2008, 11:12:

techniques such as soil erosion protection. Remember this was a long time ago when farmers were trying to move from horses to tractors. Now it is important to help the small farmers compete with the large corperations. Why should the tax payers pay subsidies to a large corperation that already has a huge profit? By subsidizing the big guys it becomes harder for the small farmer to make a profit and stay in business. It is clear that there are health benefits to small scale agriculture and major problems with the large operations. Think of the large recalls of meat lately

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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tomtom33 says on Mar 22, 2008, 12:01:

I guess I'm just slow. I still see no benefit from small farms. If there is a demand for organic, big agribusiness can and will fill that need. Small farming was a way of life that is now gone. And that is fine with me.

My father's first cousin stayed on the farm and became fairly successful. His children and their children(and possibly their children's children) are still running the farm. However, they have continually added to their operations over the years to feed more family members. I really don't know all that they do these days, but I do know that they have three tractors that are each larger than my house.

They have farmed every square inch that they could. Nothing laid fallow unless they were paid to have it lie fallow. They are, by necessity, very aggressive. I see nothing wrong with anything that they have done. But they were never organic by any stretch of the imagination.

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