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RAAAY I wish I had your phone number last night to prove to you MT is right

Last night was dia de la mujer and many people dined a bit on the later side. We got busy at 9 instead of the usual 8pm and many tables of families and couples showed up at 10 and even 10:30. Unfortunately, 1 employee couldnt make it in, so the guy doing deliveries was waitering during these rush hours. A call came in at 10:15pm for a delivery to a unidad cerrada at the end of the street where my restaurant is. The delivery guy was really busy so to keep him servicing his tables, I said I´d walk it down. The delivery was ready at 10:40pm and off I went and I took my girlfriend´s son who is 12 with me for the 5 minute walk down the long block. There is a small park with a parking lot in between the break of the row of houses and the fence of this unidad cerrada. As we passed that gap, there were 4 men in black hoodies, black sunglasses, black everything with m-16 type guns and one aimed his gun at us. I lifted up the bags of burgers and sodas and yelled "domicilio" and pointed to the unidad cerrada. He waved the tip of his gun as to say, go ahead. They didn´t do anything as we walked back. I was a bit startled and the kid was upset as well. So I asked employees and a few locals what was that all about. They nervously laughed and said "limpieza". So when the rush died down, I bought a bottle of rum for everyone and we talked for the rest of the night about it it turns out Raaay was never in danger as they are not after Raaay´s drunk arse but more it´s like this: they first do surveilance, they know what and whom they are looking for and then sweep up and dispose of drug addicts and drug dealers and other nusances in the parks and dark corners. Sometimes they shoot them on sight but many times will push them into a car or van and take them to a far off place to shoot them. They say it should last 2 or 3 months and this happens every year. This is the black undertow I dont really want to know but one cannot be oblivious to it. I felt a little bad as although not comparing to major atrocities in the world´s past, this is a genocide and human rights violation, albeit it of unsavory characters which is why it gets a free pass. Of course, who wants to be the one to protest. There is the one group MT stated called the Aguilas Negras but I found out there is another group who does this as well called Convivir.

By spigrimace on Mar 9, 2008, 07:12 in Friendly Talkzone.

Gator says on Mar 9, 2008, 08:35:

Eyes front, walk softly, straight ahead

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

mranderson says on Mar 9, 2008, 08:37:

I wonder if, posing as a tourist, I could walk up to one and ask to snap a photo?

RAAAY says on Mar 9, 2008, 08:43:

.
Sprig..............I did not say that MT was wrong...............

What I said was.......

" What are the chances that this barrio was targeted by the paracos ? Very possible."

................... I challanged the exaggerated nature of his story.

But, I did not dis-agree with MT..............just that this is not as overt as he said, and it is certainly not happening all over Antioquia.

MT..." The paracos are out in full force wearing black clothing from head to toe, while carrying firearms, in full view throughout the barrios in Antioquia."

And yes, there are several groups, mostly put together by disgrunteled former paras. Typically they are recruiting young hoods from the barrios to be out front. The seeming civic nature of their activities, in getting rid of undesireables is really so that they can then go after the local businesses for protection money.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

durito says on Mar 9, 2008, 08:46:

The Convivir groups were a former idea of Uribe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONVIVIR

There is most certainly not a curfew in all the barrios in Antioquia like MT said. I'm sure it exists some places though.

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 9, 2008, 08:56:

durito says, "There is most certainly not a curfew in all the barrios in Antioquia like MT said."

I posted what I had heard from several friends in MDE that day, moreso to gather more info from PBH members living in MDE, and to share information of what I had heard. I did not say it was ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

"I'm sure it exists some places though."

Yeah, like the down the block from spigrimace's business establishment. AND... that ain't no dirt poor hillside barrio, that's for sure.

Let's talk about Aguilas Negras or similiar gangs, no need to focus on what "MT" said...........

robbi666 article will explain it out in detail......
http://www.seguridadydemocracia.org/docs/pdf/especiales/informeEspecia....

This is a great source of information as to the activities of paracos in MDE today............

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:07:

"RAAAY I wish I had your phone number last night to prove to you MT is right"
Anyone wanting Ray's phone number, address and real name, please PM me.

So, they were blessing in black, eh Spig?
Probably a different group from the ones with the blue dress that Ray met up there...

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"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

robi666 says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:10:

"They say it should last 2 or 3 months and this happens every year. "

That's the point, people here think things change abruptly, but it is not like that. It is just that perception change, as long as you live here and people begin to tell you stories.

spigrimace says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:16:

Raaay I just wished you could have seen it, that´s all.

robi666 says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:17:

Spimi, you cannot see them living in El Poblado, as Ray.

nueva york bombero says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:24:

The paracos don't like drunks? What happens in August when all the drunks spill out onto the streets for La Feria?
*Including my drunk gringo ass?!

durito says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:33:

MT - no one is denying that there are paramilitary type groups that control large parts of Medellin. It's just not a recent development, it's been like that for quite some time. In fact, it is often said that the reason the city is so much safer than it was 15 years ago is because the Paras won control and there is no more fighting. When the gov't reestablished control in places like Communa 13 a few years ago, they went in with the help of the paramilitaries.

Nevertheless, the police are doing a better job and hopefully they can eventually put an end to this.

RAAAY says on Mar 9, 2008, 09:42:

Durito................Exactly correct.

And MT.............the surprise here is that you are surprised, which is the main reason I suggest to you that you should keep your dalliances up the hill to a minimum.
You don't belong there.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

PALEOLITICO says on Mar 9, 2008, 10:04:

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

tejasmarcos says on Mar 9, 2008, 10:05:

wow. confirmation. nice reporting guys. way to put the info out there to begin with, mt.

- i have heard of similar "death squads" that operate in rio de janeiro killing off the adolescent gand bangers.

- i still do not completely understand "social cleansing" of drug users and dealers by the dealers themselves. isn't this a little hypocritical?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

RAAAY says on Mar 9, 2008, 10:06:

No...........it works out just fine.........

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

robi666 says on Mar 9, 2008, 10:58:

Tejas, to explain it...

que viva colombia, lo mejor que tiene sur america. Colombia, produce la mejor del mundo pero los gringos de mierda son los que la consumen! Saludos gringo hps.....

gringoloid says on Mar 9, 2008, 11:14:

it was like i said............a slight misunderstanding.

Catfish35 says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:08:

Well it certainly is somewhat perplexing. As Tejas states. The constant worry with all these set ups as is with Colombias history is when to draw the line. Some might say..hmmm.. a slight cleansing of the dreggs of society may not be so bad to an extent. However, who polices who? Left unchecked they will soon turn their power against you. As has always happens. Just like the Italian Mafia in the days of Giuliano. The "Robinhood of Sicily!"
However, over time the Giuliano people gave way to the power of corruption/drugs/ money/ power and it turned slowly into what the mafia has become. They never used to kill anyone not "involved" then it was never kill women and children, then that was ok..so on and so on! It is always the same..what starts out to be the best dinner you have ever had, eventually ends up in the shitter!
The real question is not whether they exist or not is how to control it!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

manINred says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:12:

"However, who polices who? Left unchecked they will soonturn their power against you. As has always happens"

I am inclined to agree. So the 'limpieza social' gets rid of the crackheads and poor people... bravo! Hats of to you kind sirs for being so wonderous. The fact remains that the big-shot narcos still roam the city killing whoever they need to, not hesitating to take out anyone who gets in their way.

Catfish35 says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:17:

I was just in MED and had to leave abruptly, but soon will return. I am wondering where SPRIGS place is? As I am still trying to put faces with screen names, as some of you know I look exactly as my foto! Is the restaurant near Park URASS in Pourblado?
Just wondering.

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:18:

RAAAY says, "And MT.............the surprise here is that you are surprised, which is the main reason I suggest to you that you should keep your dalliances up the hill to a minimum.
You don't belong there."

Sorry RAAAY, I'm NOT surprised................

Also, this latest report was not up the hill........ where "you don't belong there."

But again, let's not focus on "what MT" said, let's discuss the paracos and their social cleansing... today it's teenage pot heads, tomorrow it's the old lady in a wheelchair for taking up space on this planet.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Catfish35 says on Mar 9, 2008, 12:19:

The next day it could be us drinking that damn Peeroni in Park Urass!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

Robert Jorge says on Mar 9, 2008, 13:00:

The 20ish year old son, of my mother in law's, next door neighbor, was rubbed out in similar fashion. He was known to be a marijuana user and the word was out that he was a petty thief or burglar. He was caught out on the street at night by supposedly the police, and was gunned down. (Villavicencio, '05)

At the time, I was clueless as to why: But there were certain occasional nights where the family would warn us very seriously to take a taxi rather than walking from the house to our apartment. I later learned there were certain nights, in certain areas of Villavicencio, that there was street cleaning going to take place. Normally "they" wouldn't worry about a couple walking down the sidewalk, but the family was very worried "they" would mistake us for undesirables and we would get rubbed out. I was told "they" were the police doing the "cleaning" - but it could have very well been vigilante types doing it with the police looking the other way.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

durito says on Mar 9, 2008, 13:30:

There are parts of this country where the police take their orders from the paramilitaries.

Alma del Norte says on Mar 9, 2008, 13:41:

Only in December, Human Rights Watch reported on threats made by Medellin paramilitaries on the OAS offices, community groups and local residents:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/12/12/colomb17548.htm

La vida es una rutina

nine inch nails says on Mar 9, 2008, 14:56:

Some guy my office said I would look like a Paraco when I went down because I like to wear these shiny black sunglasses and dress in all black (albeit only to be a Goth rocker). jajajajaja

get down, get down. are you afraid of the boogie monster?

robi666 says on Mar 9, 2008, 15:04:

Before the demobilization of Bloque Norte and Bloque Resistencia Tayrona in 2006, every single police in El Rodadero was paid off by AUC, 300,000 Pesos per month.

lampltr says on Mar 10, 2008, 04:04:

Durito, you are very much correct.

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:49:

Interesting that no one comments on the fact that this did not happen up in one of those shanty hillside barrios.

This actually happened in a much travelled area for gringo tourists.

All the doubts about this actually happening in the barrio, but yet nothing when it comes to a reported incident down the street from a gringo-owned business......... where many PBH members have ventured on several occasions.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Mar 10, 2008, 15:55:

M_T, I have already commented on another thread that I was surprised to hear Rocinante talking about that happening in Robledo.

RAAAY says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:10:

Yes MT.........but notice that Sprig did not produce any photographic evidence.....???

Very suspicious.........

Also.......I happen to know that he NEVER works on Saturday nights........but yet he claims to be out on a domicilo...........

Very suspicious.........

Very suspicious indeed

........

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:18:

He does if it's El Dia de Las Mujers, which just happens to fall on a Saturday.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

RAAAY says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:24:

Noooooo..............That is definately a day he must take off................his girlfriend is really adamant about this..........

No photo evidence........No truth.......

Very suspicious..........

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

robi666 says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:26:

I have to agree, Ray.
Spig is definitely trying something dirty... it can be a plan to make you loose credibility on this site.

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 10, 2008, 16:55:

It would not make business sense for anyone to fabricate a story regarding paracos in close proximity of their business esablishment............ Aguilas Negras, EVERYWHERE!

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

RAAAY says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:30:

Apparently some of these Aguilas Negros are taking to horseback to ensure their targets don't escape.
.

A very bad development...........A close up.........If you see this nasty f**er...........RUN..

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

tejasmarcos says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:31:

LOL!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

robi666 says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:38:

Shit... He looks dangerous.

tejasmarcos says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:40:

he definitely has some intensity in his eyes. very determined indeed.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

DodgerDogs says on Mar 10, 2008, 17:43:

Robi,
You have a cute little cowboy.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

tejasmarcos says on Mar 10, 2008, 18:08:

he definitely takes after his mom.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

RAAAY says on Mar 10, 2008, 18:23:

WHAT THE F**K......????.............Eagle emblem on his shirt.

A close up of a Black Eagle in uniform..................
What an ugly beast........

.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

DodgerDogs says on Mar 10, 2008, 19:37:

RAAAY,
looks like a younger version of Sam the Butcher from Brady Bunch.
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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

huskie says on Mar 11, 2008, 03:28:

RAAAY: When I lived in Guatemala, my next door neighbours were (still are) the owners of the brewery depicted in your T-shirt, talk about armed to the teeth security guards, armored cars and the like....not to mention our own security provided by the US Embassy in Guatemala. We felt like caged birds...
Very cute boy, is that your son?
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

RAAAY says on Mar 11, 2008, 06:08:

No.....The ugly child is not mine........

No......The ugly guy with the t-shirt is not me.....

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

huskie says on Mar 11, 2008, 06:48:

Who are they then..
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

RAAAY says on Mar 11, 2008, 07:36:

The nasty looking one on the horse, is reputed to be second in commant of the El Poblado Aguilas Negros...................

The other one........Eagle on his shirt.......................he's certainly an ugly looking piece of work........maybe an unemployed Para.........??

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

mranderson says on Mar 11, 2008, 10:18:

lol

tejasmarcos says on Mar 11, 2008, 12:42:

man, i can see why that sam the butcher guy was on tv. he has a hell of a presense...

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

tomtom33 says on Mar 11, 2008, 13:22:

Then I guess taxi kidnappings are not tolerated. We should be perfectly free to hail a cab in Bogotá at any time of the day or night from the street.

tomtom33 says on Mar 11, 2008, 13:31:

One function of society is to set rules of conduct and behavior for its members.

manINred says on Mar 11, 2008, 13:37:

"Smoking a joint on the street is LEGAL in Colombia, and at least in Bogota, fucking with another's personal liberties is NOT tolerated!"

"What I'm EXACTLY saying is I'd certainly rather live with a certain level of danger than have some fuckwads TRY and tell me when or where or how I can live my life!"

Yeah Rubito, I agree completely, I also find the this whole idea barbaric, and a complete violation of human rights. All the mafiosos get away anyway, and still kill whoever the heck they want.

PALEOLITICO says on Mar 11, 2008, 21:33:

Tejas!! y porqué a RAAAY no le dices nada??? y a mi si????????????

"Amar a las personas y usar las cosas; y no amar a las cosas y usar a las personas"

tomtom33 says on Mar 12, 2008, 05:44:

The setting of such rules is not always done by force. It is done by setting behavioral norms and expectations. If society didn't do this, how on earth would we know what not do to?

Rubi, you follow many of these rules whether or not you admit it. And society still allows you to be a sick, twisted pervert(I hope you take this as a compliment). See how nicely that works?

tomtom33 says on Mar 12, 2008, 12:49:

One example would be treatment of your fellow man. Your sense of right and wrong has also been influenced by society. Many of the things that you do were ingrained into you from birth. It was actually you who had little choice.