Question for the Motorcycle and Gun Experts

webmanco says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:13:

It takes two to tango

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:23:

i wouldn't know. i've been in medellin for 2 years and have not even seen a fist fight????

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:25:

Ja, ja... Well, tejasmarcos, maybe you'll have the good luck never to see one!

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:37:

portena - i applaud the fascination, but why - regarding this subject? it is a stereotype and in my opinion really does not reflect today's colombia (although i'm sure it still occurs time to time). i'm just curious to understand what is in your head and your perceptions.

* it took me a while to get all of the srereotypes out of my head too. the better part of 18 months. now i realize i live in the most conservative towns i have ever lived in. it can actually be quite boring here and is a retiree's wet dream imho.

when i mention to people that i am from texas, i get alot of "oh, that is where george bush lives". no, he just has a ranch there as a means of not paying state income taxes. he's not even native. texas is 99.99% unique without gwb. however, we are currently stuck with that non illusterous reputation. just a parallel example, nothing more, nothing less.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:40:

where the shell are all the writers out there creating books about the other 99% of Colombia?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:04:

I've read all sorts of books about Colombia, tejasmarcos. For instance, I have a beautiful photo book by Aldo Brando - Tropic: The Nature of Colombia. All countries have their positive and negative attributes. Someday hopefully, Colombia will achieve peace, and people will let go of their stereotypical views.

At any rate - this is one of the few websites I visit where some people might actually be able to offer knowledgeable answers to the question I've asked.

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:13:

it has been pretty darn peaceful for the last 2 years anyways.

* to answer your question. it does not require two, but helps because you are moving and you are also trying to hit a moving target. also, remember you have to have two hands on a motorcycle to accelerate correctly because it requires the left hand to squeeze the clutch and the right hand to gas the moto, as well as shift the gear with your foot. either find another person to help, or grow a third arm.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Gator says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:15:

very common a few yeas ago especially in Medellin and were called sicarios . Road double on a motorcycle and when the victim was stopple in traffic pulled up and the passenger opened up with a small 9mm machine gun.

That's why it is illegal in Colombia to wear tinted face guards on a motorcycle helmet and the driver and rider must display the licence tag number on the his/her back.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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romy says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:17:

Portena- It's no mystery that hitmen moved (move) around as a pair. That's why legislation outlawing two male adults to ride on the same motorcycle appears to have helped somewhat. Obviously working together, driver and shooter is more effective.

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:23:

When I was in Bogota a few months ago I saw a few motorcyclists without the bright orange vests, and also saw one fellow in a rural area with a tinted face guard and no vest. Made me a little bit nervous - just because I had read about motorcycle assassins in the book "Killing Pablo" not because I thought anyone was interested in me. How well are the laws actually enforced?

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bradenmiami says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:29:

"* to answer your question. it does not require two, but helps because you are moving and you are also trying to hit a moving target. also, remember you have to have two hands on a motorcycle to accelerate correctly because it requires the left hand to squeeze the clutch and the right hand to gas the moto, as well as shift the gear with your foot. either find another person to help, or grow a third arm."

Although Tejasmarcos and I will catfight like a b--ch, I have to say that answer is dead-on.

The "lovemedellin website" is a piece of crap made by some moron who has only been to Medellin once...you'd be better off reading the Lonely Planet advice from a guy who never even came here!

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Catfish35 says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:30:

I would still put any good Sicilian hitman up against any of those Moto-Asassins TEJAS hangs out with in Medellin!
The wet dream is very very accurate......

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:35:

brad - i used to have a cbr 600 & fzr 600 till i had a good friend die on his moto. alot of fun if you can stay away from the other idiots on the road.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Catfish35 says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:44:

Once again, I did come to Medellin back in 1990. Then was nearly the height of fighting! Once again as I have stated on here...the media and the theaters in peoples minds blow things way out of proportion! Did innocent people die during the height of the killings in Medellin? Absolutely! This was mainly just what it was innocent killing. Crossfire, being at the wrong place at the wrong time etc...
If you were not directly in the drug business or have your nose where it did not belong you were somewhat safe. The random killings were just not present!
I am also tired of hearing about the poor Americanos being held by the FARC. These guys are NOT innocent tourists (the 6). They were operating under a subsidiary company of Dick Cheney. They were caught spraying the coca plants. In my opinion, they came for the big bucks and got nailed. I believe they knew the risks involved. Its like the soldiers dying in a war! Why is is this Sheet surprising to people? It is very unfortunate, indeed. However, it is what they do. I got shot up as a COP in Baltimore City in 1992. I never asked nor wanted anyone to feel sorry for me, just feel sorry that people have to get kidnapped or shot up at all!
Did that answer your question about the accuracy on the back of a moto-sickle?

I believe ROBI could answer more about criminals an the backs of Motosickles..Italy is champs for criminals in this Method of Operation

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:46:

Sorry if I stirred up a bunch of controversy. I suppose if I frequented the 'Assassins on Motorcycles Blog' I could've easily found an answer to my question without bringing Colombia into the picture at all. ;)

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Catfish35 says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:47:

I love that Blog...

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:48:

Ja, ja!

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bradenmiami says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:50:

TM...we may have a lot in common...besides the bickering :) I have two friends back home that have become a (1) quadroplegic and a (1) virtual vegetable just since I moved here. Another is doing 2 years for running from cops for the third time. So yeah, I wont argue there...but I really do support a smart, defensive driver who knows what he is doing. I just love riding,...

BTW...someone PLEASE direct me to the recent post about putting together a bike between all of the members here. I'm sure it ended up with a lot of BS on it, but I'd like to see if it contains anything else. I spent Saturday in 3 different Tallers down in Exposiciones and I might be looking to do something I didnt realize could be done.

The "lovemedellin website" is a piece of crap made by some moron who has only been to Medellin once...you'd be better off reading the Lonely Planet advice from a guy who never even came here!

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Catfish35 says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:55:

Portena,
The answer your question precisely though since I have had my share of motosickles, gun handling and the criminal element.
If your speaking about actual asassins. The typical moto duo is needed. Your are correct. One to navigate to moto and one to shoot, which is one reason why you always have multiple victims in a drive-by. The best method is to pull up as close as possible using a large caliber handgun or scatter gun and take your subject that fashion. Having a driver allows for the shooter to counter any shots from the other side and also alert of any incoming heat!
Most innocents get it by means of ricochet and strays.

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:57:

BEM - the mods deleted it. ctg bound and gringoloid were going at it pretty good and the post lost all it's relevance toward the end, although i still maintain building a custom bike from importd parts can be done here (atleast new).

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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bradenmiami says on Apr 20, 2008, 18:59:

aww geez...now I have to post a new thread and question, hopefully gaining enough info before jacking.

The "lovemedellin website" is a piece of crap made by some moron who has only been to Medellin once...you'd be better off reading the Lonely Planet advice from a guy who never even came here!

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:21:

3 american defense contractors

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:24:

That was awhile back, Doc. They've been held by FARC for probably at least four years.

Thanks for the interesting answers, you guys!

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:31:

Oh, I missed the part about 6 too. I thought there were only three.

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:36:

"Gonsalves, Stansell and Howes were doing drug surveillance for the Department of Defense when they were taken hostage in February. The single-engine plane carrying them and two other men crashed in a remote, mountainous region south of Colombia's capital, Bogota. Almost four years later they are still being held by FARC"

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:37:

"drug surveillance" - uh, yeah right. spraying roundup....

either way, they should not be held. where the shell is ross perot when you need him?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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jorgegdiaz says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:44:

In the Army I did a shooting exercize in a bike (Honda 250 cc) with a Galil . I was the shooter so I didn´t know how difficult was to handle the bike. But I can tell you how extremely difficult is to aim from a moving vehicle. Following exercize was the same but this time with night vision googles. Man, it does make a difference !!

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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robi666 says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:48:

Typical Colombian style.

Portena, they do not shoot from the bike.
The passenger goes down and walks to the victim. He shoot just 20 cm from the face.
Or, if they shoot from the bike, it is because the victim is in a car. They stop at the traffic light, motorbike reaches the driver window and they shoot 20 cm from the face.

As you can see, the 20 cm is important.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:52:

You're right, 20cm is important.......So is level 4 blindado, and being heavily armed as well. I'm not talking some .38 six shooter either.

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 19:58:

Level 4 blindado? Not sure what you mean, Frank.

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robi666 says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:01:

I was in a new Burbuja nivel 5 of a friend. Pretty bad ass.
It also had automatic fire extinguisher all over, you know, just in case they put fire to the car to get you out.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:05:

Level 5 great to have...you might as well go with 5...anything 3 and over requires a permit...so might as well..we're doing a level 4 now......my neighbor has the x5 at level 5 as well as the fuego...

www.supervigilancia.gov.co/?idcategoria=1785&download=Y

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robi666 says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:08:

Frank, the interesting part is that he was explaining to me that it is a big business in Colombia.
He was saying that they ship vehicles from the US to work on it and then send it back. Is it true?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:11:

We went with one of the companies listed on the post above..pdf file...it was a reference from my neighbor, .so i'm not familiar with sending anything to the states for this type of work....no se??

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Frank Rizzo says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:12:

ahhhh i see what you're saying Robi....that people in the US want colombian blindado??? no idea on that....

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robi666 says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:15:

Yes, he was explaining that the american companies ship the vehicles and all the parts to be worked on in Colombia.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Portena says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:25:

Interesting answers. Anyway, the question came to mind because I wondered if it was too Hollywood - to have a lone assassin on a motorcycle. I've done some pistol shooting, but don't really know much about motorcycles. I've seen action films in which the hero gets hit over the head several times. I know a bit about head injuries, and Hollywood presents scenarios where the hero gets a head injury that would lead to a vegetative state - and yet the hero jumps up and keeps going like the energizer bunny.

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poco says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:26:

tejasmarcos Quote: when i mention to people that i am from texas, i get alot of "oh, that is where george bush lives". no, he just has a ranch there as a means of not paying state income taxes. he's not even native. texas is 99.99% unique without gwb. however, we are currently stuck with that non illusterous reputation. just a parallel example, nothing more, nothing less.
===========

I love it when someone makes an ignorant comment,, especially on the internet,, and,, the best part,, making stupid comments to others.

Texas DO NOT PAY state income taxes,,, GET IT,, NO STATE INCOME TAXES.

Hello,, Hello,,, is it true Texans Do Not pay state income tax?? Hello ,,, Hello

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 20, 2008, 20:46:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1992/01/01/87...

* you must a genius from oklahoma or arkansas, poco.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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poco says on Apr 20, 2008, 21:43:

tejasmarcos: To assist in improving your reading skills,, Please Note what you said.
Quote: he just has a ranch there as a means of not paying STATE INCOME TAXES.
===
Quote: you must a genius from oklahoma or arkansas, poco

No,, but I can read,, a skill you don’t seem to have acquired.

The article is about LOCAL TAXES. Actually,,, I think it rather smart of Bush..

Conversely,, It's rather dumb to pay taxes that are not necessary. I live in Texas and guess what,, no state taxes,,, guess what,, lots of jobs in Texas, nice facilities,, no housing problems, world class medical center,, the list is endless AND NO STATE INCOME TAXES !!!!

PLUS: Some counties WAIVE their taxes,, yep,, NO CITY / COUNTRY TAXES for various entities,, like,, retired folks,, yep,, move to some countries and NO TAXES. They LOVE having new folks with money live there for FREE. To bad other states prefer to go broke as their population moves.

I've always wondered what kind of idiot lived in a high tax state,,, I'd always assumed he couldn't find a job in Texas or Florida,,, maybe worked in finance and needed to be in New York? No,, I'm beginning to think they were simply too lazy or incompetent to make the change.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 06:38:

the bottom line is the guy has property in texas and claims residency as a means of avoiding state income tax just like bush senior in the article noted.

"Actually,,, I think it rather smart of Bush.."

- he's just taking advantage of the system and listening to his advisors and attorneys. in the meantime he plays up the fact that he has ties to texas and brings an unwanted reputation to the "great state".

"I've always wondered what kind of idiot lived in a high tax state"

- the kind that were born there, have families there and have a mortgage there. those kind of idiots. i guess they are all too lazy or incopmpetent to sell everything they own, leave behind their families and move to texas or florida.

- brilliant deduction, poco.

* i do like the foto of obama though. nice photoshop edit.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 06:44:

Ahhh yes TJ tis 3 not 6 my error, and yes tis a shame when people reduce themselves to kidnapping and killing.
And I knew Robi would have the best way and working knowledge on properly whacking someone moto style. !!!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 06:46:

robi luvs his gun. i bet he has a pet name for it ;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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vicshere says on Apr 21, 2008, 07:05:

i call my gun "crap" cause when you pull it out everyone is in crap the shooter and the shootie

listo

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robi666 says on Apr 21, 2008, 08:15:

I hate guns. I hope I'll never use my gun. Vic is right.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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RAAAY says on Apr 21, 2008, 08:22:

Robi......does your piece have the ability to shoot hot water..............or is it restricted to cold water...?


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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robi666 says on Apr 21, 2008, 08:24:

Hot water costs...

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:10:

you boys been doin a little lake shooting? it is EXTREMELY difficult to shoot fish! only experts should try that maneuver.

vic - have you ever tried to shoot fish? or "shooties" as you referred to them above?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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vicshere says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:13:

here we go again a wrothless post nothing to do with the topic....

listo

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:19:

vic - we are still talking about guns and robi is certainly an expert when it comes to guns. can you illuminate us as to why you think the posts went off topic? is it the mention of water? is it raaay's beer avatar? is it the harpie that keeps flying around on your computer screen?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:22:

I personally loved the father son duo in Godfather..ya know the boy who made the Jackass sound?
I can always relate to that!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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vicshere says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:22:

tegass ...your right I have no idea about handguns...don't own one...don't want...don't need one...sorry to post in this thread...please continue with your gibberish

listo

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:24:

Has anyone watched that longtime special on 'The Iceman" the the professional hitman...had some kind of polish name or something...wasn't italian at all and actually led a normal life..I think it makes its rounds on one of the channels like discovery or justice etc...fascinating! Some of his stuff.

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:26:

hey vic - no problem bro! thanks for playing!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:27:

Does anybody know what caliber weapon has killed the most people, as in handgun.?
And also, what actual weapon up until recently killed the most people?

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:30:

TJ,
What does it take to own and or carry a handgun in medellin? you know/

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:31:

Gonna send you a picture of my honey ok?

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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vicshere says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:39:

What does it take to own and or carry a handgun in medellin

actually I do know a lot about guns in Colombia.... I would suggest you find a guy on a corner downtown and offer him 500 bucks for a revolver....you should be fine....when stopped by the police you better hide that thing up your rear cause that's where its going to end up if they find it.....so don't get stopped by the police its very simple....and beside why would you need a gun in Colombia...come one ...what are you afraid of?

listo

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:48:

To tell you the truth, I am not scared I actually want to dress up like a gigantic box of Capt Crunch and go around shooting people at random.
Do you know what I am?

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:49:

500 bucks? Thats alot..I will stick to my dark brown bottle bottle of Chloroform and a dirty hanky!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:51:

fish - i dunno. i do not carry a gun. you have to have a license though if you want to have one legally - ask robi. he knows about all of that.

* my guess would be a 38 caliber has killed the most people - worldwide - unless you are factoring in wars as well - then i have no idea.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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robi666 says on Apr 21, 2008, 09:55:

Cat, it has been posted many times on PBH.
You get your permission from the army. Indumil is the entity selling arms and ammunition in Colombia.
http://www.indumil.gov.co/

It is a complicated process involving an handling lesson, medical visit, interview, document checking, etc.
And money. Same gun that in US would cost 1000 USD, it would be 4 times here.

Then there are shortcuts, like for anything in Colombia.
Some people, as Vic, judge not advisable to take shortcut when it is about guns, and they can be right.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:00:

WOW thanks guys! I guess that leaves out my CEREAL KILLER idea.

TJ, you get my pic I sent you..??

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:01:

i think vic needs a group hug today.........

will you be my friend, vic?

:)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:15:

Portena wrote, "Hollywood presents scenarios where the hero gets a head injury that would lead to a vegetative state - and yet the hero jumps up and keeps going like the energizer bunny."

That's because actors are generally in a vegetative state to begin with, so getting shot in the head does nothing to them. The rest of us, however...

Back to the original subject, has anyone else ever noticed that in motorcades in Colombia some of the motorcycle escoltas are riding facing BACKWARDS with automatic weapons? That takes some serious balls. And I'd be puking from motion sickness after the 4th high speed turn.

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poco says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:27:

TeMar: Quote:- he's (BUSH) just taking advantage of the system and listening to his advisors and attorneys. in the meantime he plays up the fact that he has ties to texas and brings an unwanted reputation to the "great state".


Bush has been SAVING TAXES since 1990 !!!! Very impressinve. You did read the date on the link you posted,, January 1991,, didn’t you ?

Sometimes I see posts by really stupid people acting like a pachinko ball bouncing through life like they're on crack.

Do I think it humorous to see their ridiculous posts on display for everyone to read and find the posts are mildly amusing? Or do I feel sorry for them because their obvious lack of intelligence is so severe that they're oblivious of just how stupid they are? Since I’m not prone to compassion for self induced brain death,, in your case, I’d say the latter fits the bill.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 10:42:

* not only did i read the post, i fully understood it!

it is quite obvious you are a genius, poco. no need to pontificate the obvious.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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poco says on Apr 21, 2008, 12:04:

Quote: not only did i read the post, i fully understood it!

No,, it appears you are still confused about the difference between State and Local Taxes.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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vicshere says on Apr 21, 2008, 13:22:

if it was only state and local taxes

listo

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 13:34:

poco - no confusion here amigo. many of my finest clients were some of the top cpa's in the state. the bush story is not a new one.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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poco says on Apr 21, 2008, 13:48:

Quote: poco - no confusion here amigo. many of my finest clients were some of the top cpa's in the state.

Somehow,,,,, this makes makes me believe you're finding these clients by searchig the prisions or other similar institutions.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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tejasmarcos says on Apr 21, 2008, 13:51:

nice try!

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Catfish35 says on Apr 21, 2008, 22:56:

Got one for you..The CPA in my favorite movie...Shawshank Redemption baby...Give me Tim Robbins anyday!

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 21, 2008, 23:48:

Catfish said: "Does anybody know what caliber weapon has killed the most people, as in handgun.? And also, what actual weapon up until recently killed the most people?"

I am not going to research it, but that is an impossible stat to come up with. Now, I could speculate, and I am sure I wouldn't be too far from accurate.

The caliber that most likely has killed the most people in the world is either the 7.62 x 54, which is an older Russian and then Soviet caliber that was used in Russian and Soviet weapons from WWI until the '60s. Lots of 3rd world countries still have old Soviet machine guns and Moisen Nangent rifles being used. OR, the 7.62 x 39, which is the ammunition used in the Kalashnikov family of weapons (AK 47 type) and in SKSs and other firearms. The AK type rifle is by far the most proliferous weapon in world history.

In the US, like somebody said above, the .38 Special is a good guess, or perhaps the good 'ol .22 rimfire.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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El Polo says on Apr 22, 2008, 06:07:

I would agreed with RJ, either of the 7.62 rounds since an AK-47 is about as common as a bicycle in some third world countries. With that said, the 5.56 is currently considered NATO ammuntion and should'nt be too far behind.

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jorgegdiaz says on Apr 22, 2008, 17:56:

7.62mm is probably the most popular ammo in history. Ak-47 from the good´ol USSR, Galil from Israel (now built in Locombia), G-3 family from Germany, FAL from Belgium use that bullet.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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Portena says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:01:

Jorgegdiaz, like I said - I really don't know a lot about motorcycles, but a Honda 250 cc sounds a little small and underpowered for two people who might need to get away fast. Of course, as you mentioned, it was just a training excercise. I would think something like a Honda Shadow 750 or 1100 would be better for transporting two people in terms of power/acceleration etc.

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mranderson says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:12:

My wife told me the most common motorcycle for these moto assasins was either the DT 125 or the RX 115. Both are yamahas

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jorgegdiaz says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:16:

Porteña that was in late 80´s. I was in a Military Police unit. When we got out to patrol or guard something, we were about 15 motorcicles, mostly within the city and the airport (25 mins away). I don´t think we were trying to shoot and run.
Those bikes could get easily to 90 Kmh without sweating as opposing as me... lol

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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webmanco says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:20:

Honda is not well known for speed but for strenght, Yamahas motorcicles are the most sought by thieves, because of their speed and low cost spare parts.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Portena says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:35:

I went to a Yamaha website, but I couldn't find any photos of the Yamaha DT 125s or RX 115s. Old models? I did see a 1985 Yamaha v-max that looked nice.

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jorgegdiaz says on Apr 22, 2008, 18:46:

Those bikes are no longer in production (apparently) because they are 2 strokes. I even remember a city ordinance that prohibited two male passengers ridding in RX-115 bikes.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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mranderson says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:04:

So you can't get a new dt 125 at the dealer? They had new ones just a few months ago.

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Portena says on Apr 22, 2008, 19:16:

Fast getaway does not always equal speed. The ability to drive between cars, on sidewalks and threw open doors gets high marks without hitting 100mph.

So that is what the Yamahas can do that the Hondas can't...

Just seems like two passengers would make it difficult to do most of that.

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Catfish35 says on Apr 22, 2008, 23:00:

Robert Jorge, I admit I was not specific enough in my trivia..You are excatly right tho. Up until 1990 the 22 rimfire was the deadliest caliber in the USA. And believe it or not....The Ice Pick was the weapon..very good guess..I would have guessed the 38 also

"So many guns, and so few brains". sam spade

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 23, 2008, 00:39:

Hey Jorgediaz, you are partly correct with the "7.62" round. 7.62 is just the width of the bullet. A 7.62 x 51 is the NATO round, commonly known as the 7.62 NAT0. It is also called the .308 Winchester in the US. The 7.62 x 54 is the Russian round. A 7.62 x 39 is the "AK" round. They are all totally different cartridges. All can be accurately referred to as "30 caliber", as they are 30 caliber in width (.3 inches). Anyway, you can't put a 7.62 x 39 in a .308 rifle - nor can you interchange a 7.62 x 54 with a 7.62 x 51 .... Sorry, I am a gun geek.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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manINred says on Apr 23, 2008, 00:44:

Guns should be outlawed.

It seems Syd Barrett has joined the forum!

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 23, 2008, 01:47:

That way, only outlaws have guns.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Portena says on Apr 23, 2008, 05:01:

Hey, Doc, I was just comparing among comments. Not concluding you said one type of motorcycle was better than another. What you said (The ability to drive between cars, on sidewalks and threw open doors gets high marks without hitting 100mph) makes a lot of sense.

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jorgegdiaz says on Apr 23, 2008, 06:02:

yes RJ, I don´t remember exactly, but I think all those assault rifles I mentioned used a different version of the 7.62 mm in diameter bullet. I´ll have to go to my dad´s and check his "Armas de Fuego" encyclipedia...

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

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