Question: Do Employers do Drug Tests in Colombia? What is the prevalence of use?

Peter Miami says on Feb 5, 2007, 13:48:

Big Bad Americans According to this website only us bad Americans do cocaine. Colombians only make it, so they would not need to be tested. lol

Peter Miami

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Azul says on Feb 5, 2007, 14:24:

I know someone that works for Vivero. She had to have drug tests, HIV test, background checks, and more......She worked in the food service area so I don't know if they were more careful because of that. Anyway, it seemed funny to me that she had to go through all that just to get a job at Vivero.

las cosas caen por su propio peso

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 14:46:

I don't know.... what is 'Vivero'? What type company? I am assuming, it is Colombian, but...maybe you can tell more about the company, Azul.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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southern151 says on Feb 5, 2007, 14:52:

When in Medillin... This conversation came up and a man that I was talking to about it said that he had to take a pre-employment drug screen. I believe that he said it was a 10 panel test.

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 14:58:

a man... was he colombian? working for Colombian company? in Colombia?
Come on; Let's be detailed on this reporting. I have never read anything about this before. A recent thread about 'DRUGS' stoked this question.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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southern151 says on Feb 5, 2007, 15:00:

Yes... He is a Colombaian. American born but lives back there. Was going to work for a Colombian company.

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Cindster says on Feb 5, 2007, 15:02:

Peter Miami JAJA ; su commentario.. cracked me up!

La Colombianita ; Cindy

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arthur brode says on Feb 5, 2007, 15:13:

Why should they test? Colombians dont go apechit over drugs Most Colombians frown upon drug use and are offended when drugs are mentioned(even though its legal for personal consumption).And drug use in the workplace is not prevelant in Colombia.
I recently rented a studio to a British girl and she had the audacity to ask the Landlord if he had any weed.The guy has never touched the stuff in his life.Neverless,foreigners continue to assume that Colombians are a bunch of drug fiends like themselves.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 5, 2007, 15:35:

BTW I have worked at Resturants in the States and food handleling/hygiene seems to be better here in Colombia.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Azul says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:00:

Galiceto Vivero is kind of like Walmart.
http://www.vivero.com/defaultflash.html

las cosas caen por su propio peso

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:42:

a.b..... you're starting quickly to vere way off topic.
Come on. I'm trying to get some objective (jaja!) information here about a specific issue.

"Why should they test?"

I think in most peoples' minds (irregardless where you are from), in a country where they produce the massive quantities of drug such as Colombia,... most people would think your comment is absurd, Arthur.

Now, you might be right, and the rest of us might have false assumptions. Alot has been written here about this topic, just about like all that has been written about the ladies. From one extreme to the other. So, as usual, the PBH crowd shows its extreme diversity. (and/or stupidity). (no personal insult to a.b. intended, here.)

I have never contended anything about the extreme prevalence of use of drugs in Colombia. But, if I was wagering what the truth is, I wouldn't begin to deny it, either.

So, Let's Come Clean.

Or, do we have to wait for Elmodefoque to return and sober up from Carnival/Barranquilla to give us the straight answer again,... ;)

Now, back to the OP...

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:48:

RESTATED 2ND PART OF TITLE: Badly entitled.
I meant, for those who didn't read all of the post:
What is the PREVALENCE of the use of TESTING BY Corporations and Employers.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:50:

cindster.... (don't say 'crack'...or, you'll have to get tested.)

Colombia es

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Azul says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:51:

I have heard that drug testing as a condition of employment is fairly common....but I don't have statistics to back that up, it's just what I've heard.

las cosas caen por su propio peso

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 16:54:

...jus read your profile and it sounds like you are applying for a job, so you have to get tested anyway (cindster)

Colombia es

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Robert Jorge says on Feb 5, 2007, 19:06:

Hey Galiceto. I had the same experience as Arthur. Of course, my personal experience in Colombia involves only one family and a few friends, which means I know jack sh**. But, the people I was around NEVER did drugs and it was rarely even a topic of discussion.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 21:04:

I understand; I also have had the same experience in my travels to Colombia. As I posted on another thread, No one has ever approached me to buy anything (damn it!) nor has my lady or any of her family or friends ever mentioned the subject. But, you know, sometimes you think they may be protecting us from it,... in some weird sense; maybe that they do not want us to get even 'close' to trouble. (So, a good thing, on their part.) My lady does not mention drugs, ever.

That isn't what this post was meant to be about.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 5, 2007, 21:41:

Notice, Galecito, that no one actually answered your question. Employment drug testing, the way it is practiced here, is uncommon in Colombia.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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goin_south says on Feb 5, 2007, 23:31:

Let's go do a random UA, then....at Colombia's top 100 companies, without notice, and see what we get.

Colombia es

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southern151 says on Feb 6, 2007, 06:01:

Hey damnit!.... I get those friggin randoms all the time! I hate em! Not because I do drugs but, because they always grab me when I have just left the bathroom. Nevermind the performance anxiety when a 130Kg woman is standing there watching you! JAJAJA! It sure is a good way to thin out the crowd on a jobsite though. Damn construction workers! LOL

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cali373 says on Feb 6, 2007, 10:51:

Are Europeans as much obsessed about the issue of any illicit drug (whether just debate or consumption) as US Americans? I was just wondering because it seems to me it is usually a US American that brings it up. I was reading yesterday about how there is a movement to ban transfats and how many are oppossed to a ban because it should be left up to the individual choice. But then I thought, is that not the same for cocaine and weed? It's up to the individual kind of like alcohol and tobacco.

Am I so out of logic in thinking this way?

I mean ilicit drugs if abused can eventually lead to death and disease just like alcohol and tobacco. The consumption of transfats while slower also leads to death and disease which affects families. It puts more of a burden out our inefficient healthcare system and unintentionally creates violence. "we are all part of the same hypocracy".

Smile if you are a thinker!

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cali373 says on Feb 6, 2007, 11:05:

Don I think you read my post while I was still editing. I asked a question and I did not blame anyone from any country for drug problems. Then I stated my thoughts at the end.

But I am glad I was able to exite some endorphins in your brain ;)

Smile if you are a thinker!

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poco says on Feb 6, 2007, 12:54:

I lost my thought when I saw this I have worked at Restaurants in the States and food handleling/hygiene seems to be better here in Colombia.

Are you serious ?

At what level,, upscale restaurants in the cities ?

Heck, in Houston they've had a TV program that reports "slime in the ice machine". EVERY NIGHT,, for 20 years !!!!

I haven't eaten out a lot in the cities but I'd suspect it would be NO BETTER the EQUAL.

I can promise you this,,, ALMOST ZERO of the street vendors selling food would pass rigorous U.S. testing and this includes the butcher shops. I’ll never be happy watching a guy wave the flies off the slab of meat when he cuts off a piece. Really,, the meat hangs ALL DAY w/o refrigeration,,, and then,, along I come to buy a slice.

PS: How to properly grasp your cellphone while it is in the holder.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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juanalejo says on Feb 6, 2007, 13:08:

An Englishman`s point of view http://www.guardian.co.uk/colombia/story/0,,2004281,00.html

And by the way only 20% of the drug trade money ever makes it back to Colombia. Wonder which banks in which countries do keep the money? ..............not really everybody knows except obviously those who still believe that there are good nations and bad ones.

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poco says on Feb 6, 2007, 13:51:

An interesting comment and I've wondered who is bad ? Wonder which banks in which countries do keep the money?

Take for instance the recent "Drug money" found in Cali. Gold and GUESS WHAT else EURO notes, demonination,, 500 EUROS.

1,000 denomination EURO Notes are in circulation.

When I noticed the HIGH DENOMINTION notes I immediatelly thought,, WoW, what a good way to transport illegal MONEY !!!

Then I thought,, is Europe so backward that 500 / 1000 EURO notes are necessary ??? Don't they have checks and credit cards ?

Or

Are European countries THAT STUPID ??? Don't they realize what they are doing. U.S. 100 dollar notes are the highest in circulation and you don't get them from ATM's.

Or

Do they WANT EUROS to be used in Illegal and/or Drug trade ?

I think the latter.

Hummm, what about counterfeits? Who really pays ? I hope these notes get counterfeited and passed. Maybe North Korea is starting up the presses?

PS: Can you guess the location of the music for the parade ?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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arthur brode says on Feb 6, 2007, 14:24:

poco usually people working with food here wear a mask,hairnet and gloves.like if they were performing surgery.and i have noticed that street vendors will not hand you food with there bare hands.they will use a napkin or something.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 6, 2007, 15:23:

well.... i have been here over a year and have NEVER been sick from eating out.and iam pretty confident that it will not happen.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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goin_south says on Feb 6, 2007, 18:05:

It's about time! they came out with TWIN CELL PHONE HOLDERS! POCO.
Might as well help hijack my own thread. Since no body has any specifics on DRUG TESTING IN COLOMBIA. I GUESS THEY JUST DON'T DO MUCH OF IT, OR....We would have a few more posts here about it.

So, some of you are always asking about 'new businesses' in Colombia. Maybe that is one: DRUG TESTING COMPANY. There doesn't seem to be much competition. Why?? Why do you think?

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 6, 2007, 22:11:

productivity and liability.... to answer your question, DonGringo.
Of course, I have learned through immediate acquaintances, that there is little matters of 'liability' or accountability in Colombia. The 'State' is too concerned, or - OVERLY PREOCCUPIED - with the 'UNCIVIL WAR', it seems.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 6, 2007, 22:13:

....further..... because what you do on your 'free time', can can affect what you do on company time. DonGringo. I think you are astute enough, so why don't you answer your own (ARE THOSE RHETORICAL?) questions?

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 6, 2007, 22:17:

contractual clarity. I think may be non-existent in Colombia.
You know, I love Colombia and the people. But, getting to the point of .... HOW ABOUT SOME ACCOUNTABILITY??? (speaking personally and also of what I continue to read on this forum).

I think that is a major difference between the two societies, the USA and Colombia: DEMAND FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

dos pesos mios,... es poquito de nada

Colombia es

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arthur brode says on Feb 7, 2007, 05:18:

"I can not go along with Colombia being cleaner" But DG,you got to go along with the Colombian people overall are cleaner than North Americans.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 7, 2007, 05:19:

DG is right on the money again "It is just one reason more I see people here laughing and going out to lunch together from work adn in the states people work adn then go home".

And i think the major difference between the two societies is FREEDOM We have much more of it here in Colombia than you do in the U.S.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 7, 2007, 09:52:

"Land of the Free" Ha!

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Raziel says on Feb 7, 2007, 13:17:

Production vs Demand The moment europeans set foot on american soil, be it north, central, or south, vices had been exchanged. Tobacco, alchohol, coca, marijuana, coffee lol!, etc... are all the same in the way they can be abused. Nicotine is the most addictive drug found in the world (more so than heroin) and yet it is legal. Let's not forget the fact that these same "legal" companies infuse with chemicals (poisons) intentionally which are strong carcinogens (cancer causing)yet this is all legal and ok. Who determines what is legal and what is not? Hmmmmmm. How about liquor and beer? Hmmmmm. That is also a DRUG if you ask me. And guess what it too damages families, organs, etc... It even brought about violence and death during the prohibition. Cocaine and marijuana has a similar history. Europeans came into contact with it the same way they came into contact with tobacco and they themselves began the drug pushing in Europe and North America. Cocain was widely and openly used in Europe(circa 1500's) and the U.S. up until the 30's 40's. But let me remind you that the Europeans pushed it to their own people creating a demand that started hundreds of years ago. So if the WHO (which protect endangered species of the world) use the argument that the demand and purchase of hides makes poaching a lucrative business therefore poacher keep killing. Apply that same principle to the drug trade. Once there is no money to be made on "illegal" drugs the trade will end. The demand keeps these drug traders in business and guess what? The abuse began with Europeans not with the indigenous peoples of the Americas. These substances were revered and held sacred. Therefore the drug pushing was started by everyone else, now everyone else needs to stop demanding for for more. But guess what? It will never happen b/c everyone is making money on it, governments, local officials, and the street peddlers in the U.S., Europe, Central and South America, not just the Colombians. As far as illicit drug use in colombia I have never experienced the prevalence of a drug scene like that found in the U.S. and Europe. When I am in Colombia at bars, clubs, etc... I
don't have people jumping on me to make a sale. Culturally an individual is practically shamed and shunned if anyone found out that they even smoked weed. The person would be called a "drogado". Whereas I don't know about anyone else but i can't even count how many people i know that smoke the Ganja, including their parents. HA!

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goin_south says on Feb 7, 2007, 15:01:

and, by the word, Freedom, as you guys are using it,... I take it you are mostly referring to 'lack of government control and demand' of the citizenry; lack of restrictions and restraint.

cm_stfu!

Colombia es

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arthur brode says on Feb 8, 2007, 10:43:

DG what things? i cant think of any.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 8, 2007, 11:13:

hmmm... Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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arthur brode says on Feb 8, 2007, 13:48:

Wake up and smell the Tinto...jeje You really believe all that B.S.?Or are those just some more pathetic excuses for defending the U.S.again?Tinto,Colombia has all the "fredoms" you listed.Minus the the freedom of dying in the street because your own cold government doesnt provide healthcare to its Citizens,minus the freedom of being harrased by the authorities for petty B.S.

"freedom to move up socio economic status"??? WTF are you talking about Tinto??? I see plenty of Colombians here moving up the economic ladder,buying Houses,Cars ect.Atleast in Colombia the economic burden isnt placed on the middle class like it is in the U.S.!
"Freedom to report and criticize without getting murdered or going into exile" Tinto,Colombia is not a communist country!Tinto,are you saying that i cant travel Domestically? Then,i better cancel my trip to Armenia this weekend!Tinto,I sure as hell dont feel any racial tension/prejudice since i have been living in Colombia.And i would hate to see how many job applicants get screened in the U.S. because their surname is Latino/a!
Oh,and if it was up to your President Bush there wouldnt be any Social Security/social progams.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 8, 2007, 14:02:

Tinto for a third world country Colombia is great!Why dont you try comparing the U.S. to a European country.Ha!

http://www.calirentals.net/

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aztec says on Feb 9, 2007, 06:28:

If you are afraid... ...you are not free. Fear, whether it be in South Atlanta or South Bogotá.

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 09:34:

Afraid of what?The only thing iam afraid of is the U.S. Gov. But when iam afraid i cuddle my Bunny.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2007, 11:27:

Workplace drugs I've said this before about drug use in Colombia: The parks around the construction sites near my place in the N. of Bogota look like a freakin Cheech and Chong movie during the mid-day break when all the construction workers are lunching and resting there. I'm talking about clouds of smoke and completely open pot use The rest of the day the park is filled with old ladies walking poodles and nannies with little kids. Now I can't PROVE that these avid potsmokers are Colombian, but I'm willing to venture that they're not a bunch of gringos who moved to Colombia to work as bricklayers and ditchdiggers.

I also think that answers the question about drug testing, at least in the construction trade. Maybe it's different if you're an Avianca pilot or the president's bodyguard, but I'm guessing it isn't.

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goin_south says on Feb 9, 2007, 12:08:

Mr H I would imagine Avianca pilots are drug-tested regularly in compliance with a much bigger organization than either Colombia, or itself (Avianca.) The rest of your story doesn't surprise me.

cm_stfu!

Colombia es

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2007, 12:30:

You're right, Galecito, The drugs aren't allowed in the cockpit. Avianca workplace rules limit it to the galley.

From the US Customs "Customs and Border Protection Today" website
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2004/JanFeb/other/peanuts.xml

Peanuts Anyone?

Coffee, tea, or peanuts are standard fare on airplane flights. If you choose peanuts, you might typically tear the pack open and pop them in your mouth. Imagine your reaction if those peanuts turned out to be cocaine coated. This may sound like an unlikely scenario, but it almost happened on a flight that U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers boarded at the Miami International Airport.

Luckily, no passengers on that flight received the tainted snack peanuts due to the intervention of our CBP officers. This peanut story unfolded in late October 2003, when CBP officers boarded an Avianca flight from Colombia to conduct a routine check. A canine alerted that there were drugs in the galley. The CBP officers searched the food drawer and found several packs of peanuts in the bottom of the drawer, snacks that had clearly been set aside from the rest of the food supply.

The CBP officers examining the peanut packs noticed they just didn't feel right. They opened a pack and to their surprise, the bags were filled with cocaine-51 bags of peanuts that held a total of 2.6 pounds of cocaine worth approximately $20,000. No suspects were caught or taken into custody.

The next time you pick up a pack of peanuts, remember the men and women of CBP are working behind the scenes to protect travelers from the unknown-even from seemingly harmless snacks.

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 13:30:

Some Colombian pot smoking construction workers do not reflect on the Colombian society as a whole.The majority of Colombians could careless about drugs.They prefer to drink and dance.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 9, 2007, 14:32:

I'll have to agree with Arthur here that has also been my experience in Cali. Of course, I don't hang out at three o'clock on ave. sexta or juanchito and perhaps don't see what you guys do but I've always said that the caleños are a way too sociable to be hooked on drugs.

Cheers.
Desi


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2007, 14:48:

Pot smoking workers I'm sorry Arthur, but pot smoking construction workers reflect EVERY bit as much on Colombian society as do people's straight-laced dentist uncles or all the other examples we've seen cited here. In fact, it SPECIFICALLY reflects on the OP's question about is there workplace drug testing in effect in Colombia. Shit, if you can operate cranes and trucks and jackhammers stoned at construction sites in the most expensive and prestigeous parts of Bogotá, do you really think they're drug testing taxi drivers or computer programmers?

I'm NOT in favor of workplace drug testing, btw, because I believe it punishes people for what they do in their own private time, but I also think it's ridiculous to see people so obviously toking up before going back to work in hi-rise construction.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2007, 15:04:

Desi One little thing: "Hooked on drugs" suggests being addicted. Most drug users are not addicts, even of hardened drugs like alchohol and cigarettes. And Colombia's biggest illicit export actually has a tendency to make people more sociable, not less.

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 16:08:

Mr. Hollywood How many Colombians do you know??(that are not construction workers) The reason iam asking is because if you knew the Colombian people then you wouldnt have that opinion of them.Desi and I know enough to conclude that overall the Colombian people are not drug consumers/abusers.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 16:41:

BTW I worked in construction back in the 80s and i can tell you that construction workers work excellent or maybey even better under the influence of marijuana.Dont ask me why.Maybey its because they have a tolerance to the drug.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2007, 17:29:

Arthur I know hundreds of Colombians.

You're also putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that Colombians as a whole are any more or less prone to using drugs than any other nationality. What I did do is contradict those who insist that Colombians are somehow different.

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 21:23:

Mr. Hollywood Colombians ARE less inclined to using drugs than North Americans.Thats what i have been saying the whole time.So then,that would obviously make them different.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Lisa Zee says on Feb 9, 2007, 22:08:

ARTURO, Arturito querido! YOU ARE MY MAN, MY HERO!!!! THANK YOU. I bet you are a good salsa dancer. Keep up the good word. Mi mama era Calena y decia: "DE CALI AL CIELO, Y DE EL CIELO, UN HUEQUITO PARA MIRAR A CALI" (debe de estar mirando a Cali desde hace muchos anos!)Cali y Colombia te quieren!!!!

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goin_south says on Feb 9, 2007, 22:10:

dont bogart that joint please, arthur, pass it over to me.... jajaaa... okay, then what about Gringos/Expatriates???

cm_stfu!

Colombia es

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Lisa Zee says on Feb 9, 2007, 22:17:

Galecito Great post. (you are up late!) LOL

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 9, 2007, 22:23:

What a bunch of school marms. Smoking a few J's IS a social activity. Hardly anyone likes smoking alone. It always cracks me up reading PBSH posters babble on about the holier than thou qualities of Colombians.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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billyb says on Feb 9, 2007, 22:23:

So are you Lisa ;) BillyB

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arthur brode says on Feb 9, 2007, 23:28:

Thanks for the nice words,Lisa:) .

http://www.calirentals.net/

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billyb says on Feb 9, 2007, 23:36:

Hey Arthur, keep looking please, my... timetable might be moving up drastically.

BillyB

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goin_south says on Feb 10, 2007, 00:10:

yeah, Lisa..... I'm up late, but maybe if you would... call me... jeje!

cm_stfu!

Colombia es

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 04:03:

Hollywood, I don't hang out that much with people who consume Colombia's biggest illicit export product really to know how socially well adept they are; the little experience I have is that they THINK that they are socially well-adjusted, perhaps even popular, but in reality it's a misconception, because people in gatherings who are not drug users shun them.

The pot smokers, however, is another strory. There's no social grace in the behaviour of a person stoned on weed. They tend to look inwards even when they talk.

Colombians in general, are too much concerned about what other people think and to fit in, to be any great consumers of drugs. There's also the economic limitations since the money is often needed elsewhere and perhaps not that much can be dedicated to personal entertainment.

What I observed, instead, last year in Cali, was an addiction to shopping and eating out. All Cali turns out on the malls and restaurants during the weekend. No signs of restricted economy or bad credit there...

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2007, 08:51:

Sure, right Feel free to go on believing that Colombians are somehow immune to the habits and vices of other people. Clearly it's all the fault of OTHER people in OTHER countries.

I'm wondering how you all explain that fact that Uribe's ballot measure to re-criminalize personal use met with a resounding defeat. Must have been a purely intellectual interest for all the voters, since no Colombians do drugs.

Also, Desi, you're confusing matters. All those sociable Caleños don't have to be stoned or coked-up when you see them. Just like drinking or smoking a cigarrette from time to time, it doesn't have to be the defining characteristic of someone's life. Lots of people, Colombians and otherwise, occassionaly and recreationally smoke a joint or do a line or eat mushrooms or whatever. It's not ALL they do.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 09:47:

I was referring to the behaviour pattern I observed at social gatherings, like parties, coctails, restaurants etc., strictly. If I saw people doing recreational drugs and how it affects their social competence. I wasn't talking about people stoned or high at workplaces or shopping or taking a walk in the park.

What I saw was a lot of talking, dancing, eating, drinking, flirting, joking...and very little smoking, even cigarettes, or weed or doing lines or whatever. Nothing. I KNOW that there are people that do, duh, but it's not anything that you see done all over in public and certainly, not the favorite recreational habit of middle-class caleños.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 10, 2007, 11:31:

So to hear you tell it, there is no drug consumption in Colombia whatsoever. I wonder what Elmo would say about this?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 11:42:

I and Mr. Defoque don't hang out with same people or in same places. I thought you already knew that.

Cheers,
Desi


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2007, 12:28:

Thanks Desi For explaining your point more clearly.

FWIW, I don't think anyone on this site has alleged that doing drugs is the "favorite recreational habit of middle-class Colombians." Even Elmo knows that's sex, not drugs.

Also FWIW, how often have you seen people openly doing drugs in public settings in North America, or Europe, either? I, personally, have seen more public consumption in Colombia than anywhere except Amsterdam, but I chalk it up to the fact that there aren't legal barriers to smoking a joint on the street or in a park more than to Colombians actually doing more drugs than anyone else. I'm sure if you could openly smoke pot on the street in NY or Seattle or London without worry about getting a fine or arrested it'd be exactly the same there.

What I do find fascinating is that no matter how many empirical examples of Colombians doing drugs that we offer up, the answer from a certain crowd is always that those Colombians somehow are not "REAL" Colombians.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:00:

How can you avoid being subjective on this issue? People who are interested in drugs find them easily, anywhere in the world; they see them, smell them and recognize them every time because they have previous experience and interest. It's not that they find the hidden drugs, but rather than the drugs find them.

Other people who don't have experience or interest in drugs never see them; drugs don't find them.

Now, who is to say that your Colombians, the ones you know who use drugs are any more real than my Colombians, the ones that don't? I don't have any statistics or reliable studies on the prevalence of drugs in the Colombian society, broken down in percentages and related to the class identity. I suspect that drugs are used more widely by people in lower socioeconomic classes, which would be a little controversial providing that they are the ones who can least afford to use them. In certain circles there is always enough money for vice, perhaps not to keep food on the table and milk money for the kids, but a few grams of perica or crack shouldn't be out of reach.

I admit freely that my experience in this matter is very narrow and my interest mainly academic. It somehow amazes me when people make these blanket statements about drugs being used widely in Colombia and yet I never see the same things than they do. I'm no newbie to Colombia either, but have a long history of living and going to Colombia.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:20:

We agree then But if I were going to say, for example, that almost no Colombians wear thong underwear, and then a dozen people all chimed in saying they've seen Colombians wearing thong underwear, I'd have to reconsider the validity of my position.

I'm not sure about the class distribution of drug use in Colombia. I've certainly seen open drug use by the very elite of Colombia and I don't know where on the class spectrum you would place people like the construction laborers in my neighborhood. I suspect they're really rather middle class within the Colombian paradigm.

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goin_south says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:48:

no but, it could be a good new 'Reality' series: Desi and Elmo on a Deserted Island; how and who will survive and return to the mainland first?
lol!

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:49:

.

Colombia es

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goin_south says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:50:

Sure signs, they are no longer 3rd World! What I observed, instead, last year in Cali, was an addiction to SHOPPING and EATING out. All Cali turns out on the malls and restaurants during the weekend.

And, maybe signs that finally ENOUGH GRINGO $$$ HAS INFILTRATED CALI!

Colombia es

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:54:

Then I would have to say perhaps you hang out with a thong crowd and I do with people who don't wear them. Now, is your group bigger and better (more representative) than mine? Is your experience more valid than mine?

I think the lower socioeconomic classes use mainly the cheaper drugs while the elite (I have never been invited to those parties)would use better quality, more expensive drugs. I can't imagine an estrato 8 old-money rolo wanting to be caught dead in smoking a joint of cheap perica. How embarrassing!

Construction workers are lower classes (estrato 1-3 housing areas), except the most skilled ones who might be lower middle (3-4).

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 13:58:

gale "no but, it could be a good new 'Reality' series:
Desi and Elmo on a Deserted Island; how and who will survive and return to the mainland first?
lol!"

I know I would. Elmo would drown himself after one day on a desert island with me.

Cheers,
Desi




"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 10, 2007, 15:07:

The point is That I'm not saying your crowd doesn't exist. I know plenty of straight-laced Colombians (and gringos), too. I'm just debunking the oft-propogated myth that "Colombians don't do drugs".

I think this says it all about your exposure to Colombian drug culture, "I can't imagine an estrato 8 old-money rolo wanting to be caught dead in smoking a joint of cheap perica."

I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to smoke a joint of cocaine, which is what perica is. I don't even think that's possible. You snort cocaine or, if you're a total cokehead, freebase it or smoke crack.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 15:15:

oh that was just a stupid slip

I meant of course, smoke ...what is it you guys smoke? mary jane?
I KNOW perica is coke I was thinking the other stuff, bazuko.

Cheers,
Desi
(really embarrassed now..)

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 15:21:

oh that was just a stupid slip
sorry double post

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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utopiacowboy says on Feb 10, 2007, 15:56:

"Elmo would drown himself after one day on a desert island with me." Come on, Desi, don't tell me that you'd drive the poor guy to commit suicide?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Feb 10, 2007, 16:06:

Yeah, that's me, UC. I would make him see the error of his ways and his thinking and give up on drugs and hookers and vallenatos and bad jokes...make him love Cali and hate Barranquilla until he could not put up with me any longer but since he's such a sweet fellow he'd rather drown himself than strangle me.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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