Proud Colombians?

Rikito says on Mar 29, 2008, 08:21:

I agree. A lot of cities are really bad. I have been in about 12 different cities in my 8 months here and nothing is as bad as Cali. In fact, I'm sorry to say that I have never been in a city that is as dirty as Cali. Problem is that the people think that the government should be the ones who keeps the city clean. The government this and the government that. It is an entitlement attitude that a lot of people have here. Like someone said in another post. Laws only apply to other Colombians.

Where I live in armenia it is very clean becasue the people want it to be clean and the people do what is necessary to keep it clean.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

tejasmarcos says on Mar 29, 2008, 08:45:

that's a nice area you live in rikito. i enjoyed the photos you sent a while back. one day, i will make it down for a visit from mde. i need to see the coffee region sometime soon.

anyone else want to tag along and let rikito buy the beers upon our arrival?

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

bogotabrian says on Mar 29, 2008, 08:56:

I liked Armenia a lot too, though it tends to be a very sleepy town if it's not the weekend.

tejasmarcos says on Mar 29, 2008, 09:09:

bogotabrian - whatever became of the manizales venture? are you still looking at that property?

my glass is getting shorter on whiskey, ice and water...

MitchAlvarez says on Mar 29, 2008, 11:10:

Im very proud!!!!!!!!!

quiero mucho a mi pais y a mi gente hermosa.

btw armenia is pretty...........pero como medellin no hay nada.

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

Rikito says on Mar 29, 2008, 13:27:

ok you'er all invited, but no Portland Oregon beer...ok?

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

muchacho_escondido says on Mar 29, 2008, 15:30:

My theory:

The difference between the First World and the Third World is very simple. In the former, people feel that the problems of the country are their problems. In the latter they think that the problems of the country are someone else's problems (the government's, the king's, the sheikh's, the Pope's, whatever). Come to think of it, there's really nothing else to this issue.

In the First World people take action and initiative into their own hands-- they see well that if they don't do it, no one will. In the Third World people are either too scared or are too busy surviving so they don't give a damn about anything outside of their homes. Naturally, nothing really gets done that way.

Until people in the Third World become conscious of their environment and start feeling responsibility for their own government, Third World will always be Third World. Neither Uribe, nor Chavez will truly change the quality and nature of life, no matter how enlightened or misguided their policies.

Sounds harsh but I grew up pretty close to the Third World. It's in my blood. I think I know what I'm talking about.

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 29, 2008, 16:18:

I completely disagree with muchacho_esondido

Rikito says, "Where I live in armenia it is very clean becasue the people want it to be clean and the people do what is necessary to keep it clean."

I've spent many days in the shantytown barrios in Antioquia and was suprised to see the locals sweep the sidewalks, streets and pick up any garbage out on the streets before heading off to work in the early morning hours.

On several occasions where I slept up in the hillside barrios, I witnessed the residents sweeping and washing down the steep steps along the hillsides.

Too many people confuse poor people with crime and indifferences toward life.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 29, 2008, 16:29:

Everybody swept the sidewalks in Cali too, but strangely, they don't do this any more. Maids used to get up at dawn to sweep the front of the houses, the sidewalk and the the pavement in front of the garage and the house, every morning, seven days a week. When there wasn't a maid, the people (usually the lady of the house) would do that herself; it was considered very important just like keeping that little piece of lawn nicely trimmed and and the floors of your house mopped every morning before breakfast.

Cali used to be the cleanest and most organized city in Colombia, la ciudad civica. I feel profound sorrow now every time I visit, to see garbage lying around, trash floating in open-air sewage canals, dirt, lack of pride and care all over.

What happened?

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Simon says on Mar 29, 2008, 18:15:

Yes, I recently returned from a long stay in Cali and believe me, I was very dismayed by how dirty I found the city. Instead of progressing, it seems like they are going backwards over there.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

manINred says on Mar 29, 2008, 18:41:

"I've spent many days in the shantytown barrios in Antioquia and was suprised to see the locals sweep the sidewalks, streets and pick up any garbage out on the streets before heading off to work in the early morning hours."

Yet they still remain very dirty and littered with rubbish. One problem is that not enough people do this. In estarto 3/4 neighbourhoods, generally people will take care of their own little space, but when it comes to a public space, there will be litter abound, not many people care. Unless it's a nice park, or somewhere where it is beneficial to keep nice.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 29, 2008, 18:58:

This is something that I feel the schools in Colombia are failing to teach the kids; the importance of taking care of the common spaces and that keeping clean and tidy is EVERYBODY's responsibility. As long as the kids are only taught academics in school, the families fail to make their children feel any responsibility for their neighbourhood, city, country it will continue to look like a goddamn war zone in my beloved Cali.

This can all be changed and it would only take a few years, but as long as people don't see it as a priority or as their responsibility it's futile. (We got in trouble when we asked the pupils in our school to pick up and clean after them....some parents thought that they should not have to do any cleaning at all).

I was severely admonished by my friends last time in Colombia when I cleaned my house together with the people I had hired for the job. I trimmed the trees outside, picked up the garbage, swept and hosed down the driveway. My friends thought it was beneath my dignity to partake in such a menial job.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 29, 2008, 19:05:

ManInred,

Not true of the barrios I spend time in Antioquia.


Itagui - estrato 3 barrio


This has got to be one of the best barrios in Medellin, especailly for an estrato 3.



Cali representives visit Medellin to see how they've been able to turn it around.... in order to get Cali back on track.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

robi666 says on Mar 29, 2008, 19:14:

There is a HUGE difference between Paisas and Costenos. It is impossible to generally talk about Colombia.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

manINred says on Mar 29, 2008, 19:18:

Dude, you can't capture the many barrios of the whole province in 2 pictures.

I conceded that many areas are clean, but you gave examples of peoples' personal spaces (stores and front lawns) that are kept clean, and i spoke specifically of how those areas that you depict in your photos would be kept clean, so you strengthen my point. If I were still there, I'd walk two blocks from where I lived, actually, from my balcony, and take a picture of the many dumps and dirty-garbage strewn areas that litter Colombia all over. I can't though, I'm here.

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 29, 2008, 20:04:

You are right.

I can only speak for the barrios I know. Agree that some barrios are not pristine, but have visited many barrios throughout Antioquia and can say that I was pleasantly surprised by how well kept they were for poorer barrios.

All in all, I think most barrios are not dumps. That includes estrato 1 and 2 barrios I have visted on my trips.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

bartolo_colon says on Mar 29, 2008, 21:37:

Med you should see some of the barrios in BAQ and CTG, steaming piles of trash, dead animals, open sewers. But for the most part, the majority of barrios are quite tidy. That said, it seems like folks litter like crazy.all over the country. Its nothing though compared to Haiti and Africa, the filth over there is mind boggling.

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

Chriscan says on Mar 29, 2008, 22:27:

I think that a lot of Colombian cities and towns are pretty clean for latin american standards. In fact Colombian cities and towns are some of the best in the americas (my opinion)

the only country I would say has more pride is the u.s where it gets to the point of sick and dangerous.

************* WARNING ************* my words often come from my ass

Lisa Zee says on Mar 29, 2008, 23:01:

Colombia is a poor country, most people just have enough to eat, they don't have money or time to paint their homes and landscape, and Cali and some cities have a lot of "desplasados" they come to the cities and littler everywhere, they are very ignorant, and poor they never lived in a city. (not their fault)

It takes money and education. Maybe your family should go to Suizerland or some rich country.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 29, 2008, 23:02:

Colombia is a poor country, most people just have enough to eat, they don't have money or time to paint their homes and landscape, and Cali and some cities have a lot of "desplasados" they come to the cities and littler everywhere, they are very ignorant, and poor they never lived in a city. (not their fault)

It takes money and education. Maybe your family should go to Suizerland or some rich country.

Rubito says on Mar 29, 2008, 23:08:

Well I'm coming from NYC and we are famous for filth, rats, roaches, garbage etc. So when I go to Bogota it looks very clean to my admittedly biased eyes :P but so does just about any other place I could go to, so that's not exactly a glowing endorsement.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

Frank Rizzo says on Mar 30, 2008, 01:34:

I'd have to go with Rubito on that one.....NYC is pretty rough....I had dinner at a japanese this month restraunt in manhattan....walked out and almost blew chunks from the smell on the street (garbage i guess)....it was rough.

Rikito says on Mar 30, 2008, 07:06:

I agree with Desideria 110%. It all starts in the schools. My wife teaches here in Armenia and she told me that all schools teach civic responsibility. And this lame excuse that Lisa Zee gives about, "Colombia is a poor country, most people just have enough to eat, they don't have money or time to paint their homes and landscape." is as lame as it gets. I don't care how poor you are, you can still clean your house and home area. When people try and lay the 'pity me' excuse it makes me sick. I have seen plenty of poor places with no paved roads, low employment, lack of food, etc. and still they keep themselves clean as they do their homes.

In cesspools like Cali it is the responsibility of everyone to keep the city clean. From the people who drive down major streets in their $50k car throwing plastic bags of garbage out of the windows to the Centro area where you can hardly see the road because of all the trash that is about. You have to get rid of the "Right of Entitlement" mentality and take responsibility for your own actions.

Lisa, it doesn't take money to be clean...it takes you to pick up your trash and see to it that others are given the education to know what their impact of living in filth has on their own well being and the environment. And nothing pisses me off more than when I hear people say that this or that is demeaning and should be done by the housekeepers. That kind of rhetoric is fearful ignorance talking.

I have been told that Cali is and has been a beautiful place, but if you think the government is going to clean the city you are sadly mistaken. Only the people of Cali and any other city who let their city go down the toilet can make the change.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

robi666 says on Mar 30, 2008, 08:35:

On the barrios up on the hill, in Medellin, AUC used to enforce a law of cleaning, fixing roads and painting walls every year at Xmas. Not that the people did not want to do it. But the ones who did not have money for paint, were provided with free paint.

Rikito is right: it is on the people, not on government.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 09:20:

NYC has come a long way since the 70's....
It looks sparkling clean now compared to back then.
Most of Colombia is pretty clean, but anybody been to Buenaventura?

Rikito says on Mar 30, 2008, 09:25:

I have not. Several Colombian friends and my in-laws have told me to stay away. It is filthy and has a higher then average crime rate.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

robi666 says on Mar 30, 2008, 09:29:

You don't have to go to Buenaventura to find something dirty.
Take a drive around La Murillo downtown Barranquilla. Or you can go to Cartagena. Hell, Rodadero in Santa Marta is estrato 6 and it is dirty and in poor condition.
Again, it is on the people.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 09:52:

Yes you can be poor and be clean, but you know how many displaced people come to the cities, and live in the streets, they left their homes in the mountains, because the "guerrilla" forced them to leave!. I sow poor indians with whole families, sleeping under bridges, do you think they have the mentality to clean after themselves?

I see, very poor people in the country, in Antioquia with dirt floors, and they have flowers hanging from everywhere, the beds made and very white bedspreads, and the pots and pans shine over the stoves, But the peasants that you find in the city, they don`t clean, I am sure they contribute to 90% of the trash.

My son was shocked to see how dirty it is in New York! I been to N.Y and everything is old and dirty. I am sure there are some areas that are nice.
I drive across this country many times, and I see filth everywhere, drive though Texas and the south, Arizona, New Mexico. It is sad!. And this is not a third world country.

Lowell says on Mar 30, 2008, 09:55:

My Suegra wants to live that way. She lives next door to us. To me she's an intentionally ignorant slob. She's had numerous opportunities to improve here situation. I've seen her trash thiings like a very strong bucket that I gave her in less than 2 years ago. It would have lasted us a lifetime. The other day my wife came back with some freshly popped popcorn. I looked at the white plastic bowls that had the popcorn in them. Both had black mold on the edges. WTF?

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:03:

Rikito says, "I agree with Desideria 110%. It all starts in the schools."

I disagree, it all starts at home. Your parents are the first people who set the examples developing your behavior.


Lisa Zee says, "Yes you can be poor and be clean, but you know how many displaced people come to the cities, and live in the streets, they left their homes in the mountains, because the "guerrilla" forced them to leave!. I sow poor indians with whole families, sleeping under bridges, do you think they have the mentality to clean after themselves?"

Under these circumstances, I can completely understand such behavior because so many people can easily loose hope. This can not in any way, shape, or form, be compared to regular folks, such as locals, living in any poor barrio.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:04:

From today's periodico , one day all the rivers in Colombia will be unfit.


Las basuras de El Paraíso contaminan al Guatapurí

En foco de contaminación se convirtieron las basuras que diariamente arrojan la misma comunidad del barrio El Paraíso en la margen derecha del río Guatapurí. Foto/ Emilio Castrillon
Las basuras que diariamente arrojan al Guatapurí tienen alarmada a la comunidad que habita en el barrio El Paraíso, ubicado en la margen derecha del río.

Según el relato de los habitantes de este sector, personas ajenas y vecinas arrojan desperdicios de todo tipo en el desagüe de las alcantarillas que llevan las aguas servidas.


“Las personas del sector también tiran las basuras, no tienen conciencia, porque los ‘carromuleros’ vienen, tiran los desperdicios, y se van, y uno ni les ve la cara; pero son los vecinos quienes los hacen de frente y después se quejan que los hijos se enferman‿, expresó Marglady Eufení, residente de El Paraíso.


Las basuras que tiran a lo largo de la orilla del río muestran un evidente estado de contaminación de la cuenca La comunidad hizo un llamado a Coorpocesar para que atienda este problema que se presenta desde tiempo atrás: “Esto no es de ahora, siempre ha sido así, y nadie hace nada. Aunque antes venían funcionario de entidades, pero miraban y se regresaban sin una solución‿, dijo Carlos Angulo.


Lo olores emanados por las basuras, pese a la distancia donde se encuentran las viviendas molestan a los residentes. “Parece que las basuras son de algún restaurante por el olor a comida dañada y los desechables‿, dijo Marglady Eufení.


Otro de los moradores del sector expresó que el problema de las basuras es responsabilidad de los mismos residentes de la margen derecha y no de las personas ajenas. “Hay que vigilar a las persona que viene hasta acá y tiran las basuras para que las multes o les llamen la atención, aunque eso serviría por un rato pero después volverían a tirar los desperdicios‿, manifestó Argénida Villalba.


The río Guatapurí , used to look like this , but with more contruction and more Drummond mining in Cesar area , río Guatapurí has become a place where many
mothers tell their kids not go anymore. All this in less than 5 years time.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:10:

I think the locals need more education about the environments, it's true education start at home if you don't respect the environment how can your children expect to do that, i agree that the poor people is the one that need to be more educated in this matter if you see places near the rivers like the Tunjuelito, are full of rubbish, school should play a bit part in this too but as i said a child from a poor background see his mum trowing and old mattress into the river what can he do or say? it's the family of these kids that need to be educated.

engage brain before opening mouth

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:17:

The education starts at home and continues in the school environment where children spend a huge chunk of their day. Schools and families ought to work together, towards a common goal and taking responsibility of your environs is one of those areas. While the Colombian educational system pushes academics and has second-graders doing long division the kids are not taught basically to wipe their own asses, but have somebody else to do it for them.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:20:

DogerDogs: why don`t you post this garbage picture in you avatar!!!

Maybe Medellin T. can post it in his website to "promote" tourism in Colombia!

I don`t see the need to show the filth about Colombia in a Colombian website????!!!!.

I think I am going to start taking pictures of the filth I see when I travel all over this USA, and posted in here. How productive would it be?

This post is a disgrace! shame on you!

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:30:

Lisa Zee The post is inline with the topic.

Most of Colombia's true native people have lived in harmony with the land several 1,000 of years, and have never ruined the water ways are created slums.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:50:

Lisa Zee,

So what you're saying is that we should ONLY post positive information on Colombia?

Sorry, but I say we should be able to post the good, the bad, and the ugly, to help educate people about Colomba; good, bad, or otherwise.

If you take pictures of filth in the US feel free to post it on a USA website, not a Colombia website, unless you use it comparison to Colombia.

I don't think DodgerDogs meant any harm. It's in line with what we are all discussing on this thread.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:52:

I love the Indians and their culture, (there are also many from Choco) don`t think I am stupid, but take anybody out of their environment, and throw them into a city and see what happens!, there are not public restroom, no place for them to cook, and they are there by the hundreds!!! I don`t even have to explain.

I live in Redondo Beach, where there is no smog, beautiful clean beaches, and water, I would love to live in my country and I am moving there for good `as soon as is possible'.
I travel to Medellin every year once or twice, and I stay at least one month, sometimes 3, sometimes up to 6 months!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 30, 2008, 10:57:

I agree; this is exactly what we are talking about. Poverty is no excuse for being sloppy and dirty, for throwing your garbage in open seweries (meant for rainwater) It's lack of community spirit, cohesion and social responsibilty. I've been to poor barrios in Cali where everything was shining clean, where humble women and men take pride of their modest homes and decorate prettily for Christmas and La Inmaculada.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:07:

Lisa Zee , I am sure you love Colombia, and also the area around Donner pass ( Calfornia and Nevada border ) where the smell of the pines fills the air.

I too love that area of Truckee to Reno on I-80 and Lake tahoe shores , but I would choose to live in Colombia and love it and it's people too. I posted that pic as a example of the rapid decline of Colombia's water ways.
I hope people see it and feel shame and pity for the decline of Colombia's true beauty . I edited my other post above , as life is too short to be bitter.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:12:

Lisa Zee says, "Yes you can be poor and be clean, but you know how many displaced people come to the cities, and live in the streets, they left their homes in the mountains, because the "guerrilla" forced them to leave!. I sow poor indians with whole families, sleeping under bridges, do you think they have the mentality to clean after themselves?"

Under these circumstances, I can completely understand such behavior because so many people can easily loose hope. This can not in any way, shape, or form, be compared to regular folks, such as locals, living in any poor barrio.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:18:

I live in a estrato 3 barrio that is for the most part clean , as the people take pride everyday
sweeping and taking pitchers of water and sloshing them on the side walks to clean the dust and dirt. I would not trade my estrato 3 barrio for a estrato 6 barrio in Medellin or Bogota , as
those places are to me are not the real flavor of Colombia.
Also I could not keep all my birds in the big city. And its too darn cold in Medellin and Bogota , I like 90 + degree days and 75 degree nights.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:21:

One thing is exposing the problem of contaminating the rivers and streams in Colombia and trying to inform people about a problem we are having and trying to see how it can b solved, I was very disappointed when I sow the beautiful San Andres Island with water bottles floating and espoused everywhere!

ANOTHER IS CALLING COLOMBIA A PIGSTY like the poster Bunyipcatcher does!!!!!!!!!

robi666 says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:26:

Yes, that's so true, DD.

It is funny how things can change in within few kilometers. And it has nothing to do with poverty.
You go through la Lucha and barrio 11 Noviembre leaving Santa Marta. It is dirty and bad kept as it can be. A few kilometers after on the Troncal you're in Calabazo and everything is clean, well kept, flowers, vegetation.

Santa Marta is mostly bad kept. I've never been to Valledupar, just a few hours away, but they say it is a clean and green town.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:30:

Medellin cold, I wish it was colder, Medellin used to be cooler, not any more, still pleasant weather.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:35:

Very sad news about lake Tahoe, I heard in NPR, tha in 10 years the lake will look just like any other lake. this global warming is affecting it, that is very tragic.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:51:

I have seen many young people in Colombia making a effort to clean up trash and help restore some of Colombia's lost beauty. Here is a example from the local periodico.

Lidera Interaseo
‘Operación Limpieza’ en los parques de Valledupar


Dentro de la estrategia denominada ‘Operación Limpieza’, liderada por Interaseo S.A., se realizó por la recolección de basuras y desechos del parque ubicado en el barrio San Martín.

Culminada la jornada y con la participación de la comunidad, se realizaron actividades pedagógicas y recreativas con los menores.


“Convocamos a los padres de familia y a los niños del barrio San Martín a charlas sobre cómo manejas las basuras y sobre la importancia de mantener limpios los espacios públicos, que no son para dañarlos ni para ensuciarlos, son para cuidarlos‿, dijo Lilibeth Aguirre Saurith, gestora ambiental de Interaseo.


La Gestora Ambiental expresó que para la puesta en marcha de la actividad se convocó a los líderes del sector: “el objetivo es invitar a los líderes e integrantes de la juntas de acción comunal para que ellos a su vez convoquen a la comunidad al desarrollo de estas actividades‿.


La estrategia, que se realizará mensualmente en un parque de la ciudad, inició en el parque del barrio La Popa. “Esta jornada se denomina ‘Operación Limpieza’ y tiene como objetivo concientizar a la comunidad para que se apropie de los parques que existen es sus comunidades‿, expresó la Gestora Ambiental de Interaseo.


La campaña de Interaseo se realizará primero en los parques pequeños: “la idea es tener más práctica para cuando lleguemos a los parques con mayor extensión y más basuras‿, dijo Aguirre Saurith.


Por su parte, el concejal ÿlvaro Rosado, se mostró satisfecho con la jornada de limpieza liderada por Interaseo y felicitó a la comunidad por la respuesta positiva ante la convocatoria de los líderes para asistir a las diferentes actividades.


Entre tanto, Víctor Escobar, líder del barrio San Martín dijo que, “estas charlas pedagógicas son útiles, no sólo para el cuidado del parque, sino también para nuestros hogares y lo mas importante es que involucraron a los niños que son pieza vital para que se mantengan estas jornadas‿.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Simon says on Mar 30, 2008, 11:56:

"One thing is exposing the problem of contaminating the rivers and streams in Colombia and trying to inform people about a problem we are having and trying to see how it can b solved, I was very disappointed when I sow the beautiful San Andres Island with water bottles floating and espoused everywhere!

ANOTHER IS CALLING COLOMBIA A PIGSTY like the poster Bunyipcatcher does!!!!!!!!!"


You're damn right, Lisa! This Bunyiptacher is just another Colombian-basher just like several otheres that infest this website!!


IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR COUNTRY .... THEN GET THE #$%% OUT AND DON'T EVER COME BACK!!!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:10:

Why would you be on this site if you didn't love Colombia???
To me, that would be a huge waste of time and effort.

Simon says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:15:

"Why would you be on this site if you didn't love Colombia???
To me, that would be a huge waste of time and effort."

Because there are all kinds of loons and haters in this world.

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

Medellin Traveler says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:35:

I have not seen any haters on this thread, and for the most part on PBH overall.

Medellin es una chimba! www.medellintraveler.com

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:39:

I've seen some negativity and some ridiculously out there comments.

Simon says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:51:

"I have not seen any haters on this thread, and for the most part on PBH overall."

That's because most of biggest haters have left this site on the past few months, thank God, but we still have a few nuts running around, I mean, we even have some loons who idolize that POS Pablo Escobar!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

Frank Rizzo says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:53:

Hi Simon....While no hero of mine.....there are lots of people in Med. that idolize Pablo....for obvious reasons...

Rikito says on Mar 30, 2008, 12:54:

Simon..."IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR COUNTRY .... THEN GET THE #$%% OUT AND DON'T EVER COME BACK!!!

Ok, I guess that is why you are not in Colombia. All things aside I think that if there is any kind of consensus in here is that if Colombia and its cities are to be clean then it is up to individual citizen's to do it. A good statring place is in the home and reinforced in the schools. I was recently on vacation in San Andres and outside the all inclusive the place is really bad. And the bad is casued by the locals and not the tourists. I was driiving on a tour bus and a local car in front of us rolled down the window and threw a dirty diaper out on the road.

It doesn't take a village...it takes the people of the village.

I think the thing that pisses people in here off the most is the love for their counrty that Colombians have and the knowledge that ignorance and a 'let the other guy do it atteitude' is trashing the place.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

MitchAlvarez says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:09:

Rikito ill tell you what bothers me most. Not when foreigners talk shit about colombia, but when colombians talk shit about their own country.

Now that shit pisses me off!!

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

mranderson says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:10:

Sure a lot of homeowners sweep their steps or patios. They keep the front looking clean for everyone to see. But have you ever took a hike around back of the barrios? The places you cannot see so easily are completely littered with trash.

People on the sidewalk who pass out advertisements to other people. Well everybody grabs the advertisement and then throws it on the sidewalk. Everyone on the buses throws their trash out the windows. Same with the cars. People walking down the sidewalk just throw thier wrappers on the sidewalk. People in medellin seem to love to litter.

Bunyipcatcher says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:14:

Ahh so there are some proud Colombians out there. But not currently living here by the looks of it. Lisa, Simon.

I currently living here and have been for the last 4 years. The comment about the pigsty came from my father when we were trouncing around Planeta Rica looking for the Frenchmans farm. The people had taken it unto themselves to use the verges of the road as the local dump and were burning it off. My parents are here from Australia.

For me the disappointment was when we took our kids down to the beach the first night we were in El Rodadero and my daughter was asking me what those shiny things in the water were. She thought they were fish, but no, glass bottles thrown into the water reflecting the lights from the shore.

I dont believe Iam a Colombia basher. Iam just relating comments and sights we noticed whilst travelling around the traps. My Colombian wife agrees that there is a lack of education and the comments by Desideria summarise my feelings better than I could ever put into words.

Also I find it quite funny that the families I have met keep their houses clean, but once they are out and about on the street its free game for leaving a mess or rubbish.

Nothing can be done if the problem is ignored or too risque that some people might get upset about it.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:15:

I agree with Rikito, we have to take the law in our hands. One time we were coming back with the canoe on a small dock in Kings Beach, Lake Tahoe and a Mexican child with his mother threw a battle in the water, I run up to the mother and I told her to pick it up, and now!, I gave he one of the paddles to help her get it out of the water. I think that child will not forget the incident and because I gave both a little speech!

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:15:

Sorry.

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:15:

Good idea

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:17:

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:18:

This last 3 are at El Penol.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:23:

Liza Zee: Why not post some pretty Colombia fotos in those empty spaces

Las Lajas circa Ipiales, Colombia

Las Lajas Church and waterfalls video (only 1 minute long to watch video )

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

mranderson says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:40:

In the small town where I grew up we would say something or even make fun of people who litter. People in colombia don't seem to care though.

How do you make fun of someone in spanish for littering?

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:42:

Wow! That's impressive! Thanks Double D's!

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:44:

Ask them " te gusta vivir en un basurero?" or " no conoces las canecas de basura?"

mranderson says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:53:

dodgerdogs where is that church at and how do you get there?

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 13:59:

From Cali Colombia head south on Highway 11 to Pasto then take a Guided tour bus, as
the church is right on the border with Ecuador, and there is lots of Farc activity at present there.( That part of Colombia south of Pasto, Colombia is some of the most scenic and
beautiful in all of Colombia, it is too bad the Farc has kept many people from seeing it.)

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

Frank Rizzo says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:06:

Very, very cool Dodger........!! Lisa....lago calima?? Thanks for the pics...

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:06:

It sounded great until you said the F___ word!!!

DodgerDogs says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:11:

nueva york bombero: do not let the Farc keep you way, just use caution when visiting.

True though the Farc and its kind have kept many people from seeing some really amazing
areas of Colombia.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:25:

I'm street smart and adventurous, but not stupid! My milky white ass sticks out like a sore thumb!! If you tell me Farc is there, I'm not!!! Thanks anyway.....

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:29:

Frank Rizzo: those are family fincas in El Penol, Antioquia, 90 mts from Medellin. That is a very nice area, no pollution there, blue skies, and very charming

Frank Rizzo says on Mar 30, 2008, 14:31:

Very nice Lisa....thanks for the pics....!!

bogotabrian says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:00:

tejasmarcos, well I found a partner for the hostel business and he wanted to start in Medellin first then maybe open one in Manizales later. I don't have the partner now (long story) but we had already found and excellent location for the Tiger Paw Hostel basically across the street from Parque Lleras. I do love Manizales though and may still open something up there someday. There still are many good places for sale there now because of the coffee business slide.

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:13:

Lisa, I am heading there (El Penol) in August. Any other info would be great!
Thanks!

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:19:

Tell me what do you need?

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:33:

Any must see points of interest? Iglesias, etc.?

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:40:

La Piedra del penol

Lisa Zee says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:40:

I`ll be back later, I am gardening.

Rikito says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:41:

Lisa, I am not implying that "we have to take the law in our hands." Like Des and some others said better than me...we have to educate, first in the homes and then in the schools. After that...get a brick!

Here is an idea that would have greater impact than the March For Peace. Let's use Armenia as a start point. Get all of the schools to organize an annual clean up and environmental awareness day. All of the children would get together (each school would be a team) the team cleans up an area of the city and the school and children all get a Certificate of Achievement from the Mayor.

Businesses could donate stuff for the day, e.g. Postobon drinks, yogurt, free fruit, ice crean from Popsy. Some company could donate trash bags; others could donate water, vehicles for the trash, etc. At then end of the day there could be a rally in a park with free music and awareness speeches from politicos. Keeping with the way women are shown off in Colombia as pieces of meat there could even be a Miss Trash of 2008 contest.

The kids and schools would love this stuff and feel pride in helping and giving to their community. We could also have a special event for the ‘Ricos’ who think that cleaning a sidewalk, picking up someone else’s trash or any kind of servile work is demeaning and not worthy of their position and social status. In this event the ‘Ricos’ could follow their housekeepers in their BMWs while the housekeepers pick up trash for them. Of course imported bottled water would be provided the ‘Ricos.’

I’m ready…when do we start. Elmo could be the honorary Chairperson.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 15:51:

Thanks Lis, I am so looking forward to returning to Medellin.
And if your family has time, maybe we can look at some apts.
Talk soon

Rubito says on Mar 30, 2008, 17:52:

Well, I've been over about half the USA and most of Canada. Most of it is not what I'd really call clean OR dirty, but I've only been to Bogota and the surrounding area in Colombia so I have no idea firsthand what the rest of the country is like, and looking at photos isn't exactly a good way to get schooled on that issue. Most other Colombians say that Cali and Barranquilla are filthy and rarely bitch about anywhere else in the country, so that could be a pretty good indication, but it's second-hand information and I'm naming it as such so there will be no confusion.

But between Bogota and NYC Bogota looks clean. I was riding my bike downtown the other day up to Murray Hill from Tribeca and for fucks sake, I can't believe how many of those super multi million dollar neighborhoods have absolutely dreadful road conditions.

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 17:55:

I agree the streets look like downtown Baghdad!
Bloomberg runs the city like a small business.

Rubito says on Mar 30, 2008, 18:00:

I have to think, just what the hell do I give up moving from NYC to Bogota? Hell, they're even better at keeping the lights on in BOG these days!

---Violence is the price of freedom.---

nueva york bombero says on Mar 30, 2008, 18:01:

I'm with you man, a few more years in this firehouse and I'm off.........

MitchAlvarez says on Mar 30, 2008, 21:40:

me 2

Tengale miedo a una huelga de mujeres o a una escasez de aguardiente. :)

docwilliam says on Mar 31, 2008, 06:46:

Rikito, I cant wait to visit your area. I am both, a cafe y Jeep nut. I am actually going to buy two coffee plants', this week (they are already producing) and place them on my terrace. I have worned my gf that I may not return, once I have visited your region. hahaha

"There's no time to panic"

Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 09:35:

i dont know what this poster is going on about, try going to one of the central american countries if you think las calles en colombia son sucios, they burning the rubbish all the time there and damn buzzards/vultures always flying about, especially san salvador, managua, panama, guatamala...its really not that bad even in the big three

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 09:35:

i dont know what this poster is going on about, try going to one of the central american countries if you think las calles en colombia son sucios, they burning the rubbish all the time there and damn buzzards/vultures always flying about, especially san salvador, managua, panama, guatamala...its really not that bad even in the big three

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

nueva york bombero says on Mar 31, 2008, 12:53:

In order of how they appear.... please name the places... Thanks for sharing....

Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:58:

ok dokey,....

barichara, santander

santa fe de antioquia, antioquia

bogota df, close to university/cerro de monseratte...

guatape below too








cerro de monseratte, my favourite fotos

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

Juanes says on Mar 31, 2008, 13:58:

ok dokey,....

barichara, santander

santa fe de antioquia, antioquia

bogota df, close to university/cerro de monseratte...

guatape below too








cerro de monseratte, my favourite fotos

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/Juanes/

mranderson says on Mar 31, 2008, 19:58:

I was walking to work this morning in el centro at 6 am and there was so much litter it was almost unbelievable. I guess the sidewalk sweepers weren't up yet.